So.... this little bugger is essentially Pinoccio.. small wooden puppets that gained sentience.
Many people I have seen have scream OP!~!! due to it being a contruct. But I have to wonder if it really is THAT op. Sure, constructs are immune to a lot of things, but they also have a lot of issues as PCs. For instance... they CANNOT HEAL without Craft Construct, Make Whole, or fast healing. That would kind f suck as a PC...
Additionally... they get NOTHING ELSE. Just a standard stat array and being a construct. That is it.
So what do you guys think?
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Fast healing is attainable rather early though if you have someone with craft wondrous item. Boots of the Earth can provide fast healing 1 at the cost of a move action and you standing still for a while. Not useful in battle, but for anyone it means an infinite source of out of combat healing.
Of course, getting to that point can be a problem in itself, of course, since again, you have to survive levels 1 and 2 before someone can qualify for crafting feats.
But being a construct is a lot in and of itself. It means that you can skip constitution and fort saves entirely, which can help your point buy and class selection a lot. Immunity to mind affecting effects, ability damage and drain, energy drain, almost a huge amount of status conditions, and much more.....
There are only 2 things a construct should fear-getting hit with a sword, and getting hit with a direct damage spell. Grab something with a good reflex save and a ring of evasion, and the latter becomes a lot less of a problem.
They have both some pretty amazing advantages and pretty bad disadvantages.
Their advantages include all the immunities for being a construct, low-light and darkvision, no need to eat, breath, or sleep, great stat bonuses for classes like wizard, small size bonus to defense, and fast speed for a small character. If doing point buy for stats, the lack of a Constitution score lets them beef up their other stats a little more and they gain a straight +10 HP from being a construct.
Of course it is very difficult to heal them and they die at 0 HP instead of -Con HP.
If someone expressed a desire to play one of these in my campaign, I might pull in the Repair Damage spells from Ebberon (Cure spells for Constructs) and put them on the wizard/sorcerer spell list or maybe leave a wand of Repair Light Damage for them somewhere early on.
@CWheezy, I'm not sure where you got it that they have the lowest HP in the game. When rolling for HP when they level, their CON is counted as 10, so they don't take a -5 penalty when rolling HP. With their 1st level gain of +10 HP, they actually start with more HP than most 1st level characters.
@CWheezy, I'm not sure where you got it that they have the lowest HP in the game. When rolling for HP when they level, their CON is counted as 10, so they don't take a -5 penalty when rolling HP. With their 1st level gain of +10 HP, they actually start with more HP than most 1st level characters.
And that +10 is all they ever get. Compare that to a PC with 14 CON and never gets a +CON belt- they get +40 hp total by level 20.
Still, their immunity to pretty much everything else makes them extremely resilient otherwise (shadows? Wights? vampires? BAH! just annoying fleshbags that haven't realized they are rotten yet). Worth grabbing the toughness feat at least to help soften the difference up.
I suppose Infernal Healing would work, although having to purchase unholy water is a bit of a impediment to healing. Make Whole is at least only a 2nd level spell but it maxes out at 5d6 healing. And I cannot for the life of me find any rules regarding repairing constructs via the Craft Construct feat.
@CWheezy, I'm not sure where you got it that they have the lowest HP in the game. When rolling for HP when they level, their CON is counted as 10, so they don't take a -5 penalty when rolling HP. With their 1st level gain of +10 HP, they actually start with more HP than most 1st level characters.And that +10 is all they ever get. Compare that to a PC with 14 CON and never gets a +CON belt- they get +40 hp total by level 20.
Still, their immunity to pretty much everything else makes them extremely resilient otherwise (shadows? Wights? vampires? BAH! just annoying fleshbags that haven't realized they are rotten yet). Worth grabbing the toughness feat at least to help soften the difference up.
Granted they don't gain any bonus HP from CON, but not every PC has a CON over 10 or feels that a CON belt is the best option for them. To me the Wyrwood just screams Wizard so they really should be doing their best to stay behind everyone else in the party and use those meatbags for cover.
By the way, am I the only one that wants to play a Wyrwood based off HK-47 from KoTOR now?
I suppose Infernal Healing would work, although having to purchase unholy water is a bit of a impediment to healing. Make Whole is at least only a 2nd level spell but it maxes out at 5d6 healing. And I cannot for the life of me find any rules regarding repairing constructs via the Craft Construct feat.
And again, Boots of the earth are a 5,000 gp item whose cost can be spread over the whole party (particularly with the crafting discount) since it can give fast healing 1 to any one person at a time as long as you can stand in one spot. Just put it into your backpack and pass it around when you make camp. Even with high level barbarians with tons of CON just need about 15 minutes to go from 1 hp to full. I like to imagine that Wyrwood communities just have these bolted to the ground in town square so they don't have to bother the wizard specialists for every single nick and scratch.
EDIT-oh, and while it is not a requiremen for everyone to have decent CON.... it is not entirely advisable. Even wizards tend to think of it as 'the stat I put into after I can't pump up INT any more'. It raises both HP and fort saves for them. As in, it does the things that stops their puny carbon based mechanisms from shutting down. (oh, and yes, yes I do Haskol. Yes I absolutely do)
Hm.. i wonder how a Wyrwood Slayer would be... since they don't eat/breathe/sleep they can sit and wait.... forever...
Hm.. i wonder how a Wyrwood Slayer would be... since they don't eat/breathe/sleep they can sit and wait.... forever...
Most undead that don't simply swing around a greatsword would mean nothing to them. The shadow's touch that damages strength? Nothing. A ghoul's paralysis? Nothing. A wight's energy drain? Nothing. A vampire's blood drain and domination? Nothing.
Also, since they are immune to a ton of conditions and all mental affecting effects, they can just ignore a huge variety of battlefield control spells. With evasion from the advanced talents or a ring, they can also use their good reflex save to avoid fireballs and other direct damage spells of the like.
So maybe bounty hunters that take down liches and their undead minions?
edit- and since shadows can absolutely nothing to them, it could be interesting if Wyrwoods set up their villages in caves filled with Shadows. It would make an excellent defense against intruders.
By the way, am I the only one that wants to play a Wyrwood based off HK-47 from KoTOR now?
Way ahead of ya brother. Soon as I saw Slayer, I popped that on a Wyrwood.... Still waiting to play it. So, guess not 'way ahead', only, 'kind of ahead', lol.
That said... The lack of healing hurts them very, very badly. Especially in combat. That alone, I think, more or less balances them out.
That said... The lack of healing hurts them very, very badly. Especially in combat. That alone, I think, more or less balances them out.
Yeah, the lack of healing for at least two levels is extremely debilitating. Would they be too powerful though if the Repair Damage spells from 3.5 were added to the sorc/wiz spell list? I feel that Wyrwood, being damn well suited to be wizards, would have come up with spells that would enable them to repair damage that they took, especially since their driving goal seems to be the survival of their race. The inability to repair damage seems like they would all eventually fall apart from minor damage incurred in daily activities and accidents.
Additionally, how about allowing them to repair damage through a Craft skill like meatbags do can with the Heal skill?
Technically, wouldn't the Godless Healing feat work? Since feats are exceptions to the norm?
I suppose Infernal Healing would work, although having to purchase unholy water is a bit of a impediment to healing. Make Whole is at least only a 2nd level spell but it maxes out at 5d6 healing. And I cannot for the life of me find any rules regarding repairing constructs via the Craft Construct feat.
Even with the best of care, most constructs will eventually become damaged. Unless a construct suffers some sort of structural damage that radically alters its physical form, the construct continues to function at its full efficiency, and only falls apart once reduced to 0 hit points. Ideally, however, a construct should see some repair before it reaches that point. The make whole or rapid repair spells provide the easiest way to keep a construct in good condition. Both spells repair damaged constructs, even magic-immune ones like golems. Failing that, a crafter can repair a construct with the Craft Construct feat. When repairing a construct, its master spends 100 gp per Hit Die of the construct, and then makes a skill check as if he were crafting the construct with a DC of 5 less than the DC for crafting that construct. With a success, the construct regains 1d6 hit points per Hit Die of the construct. Completing a repair takes 1 day per 1,000 gp spent on the repair (minimum of 1 day). Repair in this way can only be performed while the construct is inanimate or nonfunctioning. At any time, a construct’s creator can deactivate a construct under his control with a touch and a standard action.
A construct that has been completely destroyed cannot be repaired, though at the GM’s option some of the materials may be usable in the construction of a new construct.
Additionally, some constructs have special means of repair, usually involving spells related to the golem’s nature (such as the use of acid damage to heal a clay golem.)
/cevah
That means a sentient construct can't be healed using Craft Construct since "Repair in this way can only be performed while the construct is inanimate or nonfunctioning. At any time, a construct’s creator can deactivate a construct under his control with a touch and a standard action." But since it has no creator.....or does it? And it doesn't sleep or anything,....inanimate could mean "you let them move you and repair you"?
@CWheezy, I'm not sure where you got it that they have the lowest HP in the game. When rolling for HP when they level, their CON is counted as 10, so they don't take a -5 penalty when rolling HP. With their 1st level gain of +10 HP, they actually start with more HP than most 1st level characters.This isn't true, you have to count negatives.
Also if you have a con of 10, then you wont last long as an adventurer any how
Constructs don't have a CON score. That does not mean that they have a CON of 0 with a -5 mod, it is just entirely absent. And under Construct traits in the Bestiary "Any DCs or other Statistics that rely on a Constitution score treat a construct as having a score of 10 (no bonus or penalty)."
I will grant you that a CON of 10 does not lend itself to a long life as an adventurer if you are not careful. Which is why a Wyrwood should never be any class that requires it to get within full attack range of any enemies if at all possible. If you are careful with your Wyrwood then you shouldn't have to worry about CON 10.
Edit: @Cevah: Thanks for linking to that.
Good immunities, but their biggest weakness really is the low HP they have. Surprised they don't get bonus HP like golems do. Or some form of DR/Hardness to help them out a bit. While immunities are nice, it's not like you are going to be facing mind destroying spells every encounter.
I'd probably still play one. Wouldn't be the first time I've played something with a Con of 10 before and survived.
All of the immunities are nice, but the lack of healing is not. However there is an item called a channeling brick in the APG. I think it allows the healer to heal constructs with positive energy.
All of the immunities are nice, but the lack of healing is not. However there is an item called a channeling brick in the APG. I think it allows the healer to heal constructs with positive energy.
Found it. The Construct Channeling Brick. It is a slotless item that lets you use channel energy to heal constructs. Interestingly, that goes for both positive AND negative channeling (they aren't living creatures or undead, so what do they care which energy type you use?)
The Brick is interesting, but it seems to only be useful for out of combat healing as it reads as if the Cleric would have to choose between healing everyone at once or just constructs. What I'm curious about is whether the Artificer's Touch ability from the Artiface domain can be used to heal constructs while holding the Brick, as is mentioned in the Brick's entry, or if it is damage only, as written on the Artificer's Touch entry.
Wouldn't the Mending cantrip heal a construct?
...What if the party took the construct apart? Would that make it several objects?
...What if the party took the construct apart? Would that make it several objects?
Wyrwood die at 0 HP. I don't think you could take it apart without killing it and since their main objective as a race is to hide how to create them and survive no matter the cost, I doubt any Wyrwood would allow even their meatbag companions take them apart. I think this also negates the possibility of repairing them with Craft Construct as that requires the construct to be inanimate or nonfunctioning, which I think requires a Wyrwood to be dead at the time.
I think that leaves us with magic items and spells that grant fast healing, the Channeling Brick, and Make Whole as current ways to heal a Wyrwood.
I have to say, Wyrwood PC sounds pretty intense.
No raise dead / resurrection / reincarnation. Getting reduced to 0 HP is the end. Pathfinder with no continues. One well-placed tiger-pounce or slam-grapple-constrict or an axe-critical, and you're rolling up a new character, while the human PC next to you is getting raised from the grave for 5k.
It might be a good set up for a rogue like where there is just a machine that churns out wyrwoods everytime they die.
Make it back to the machine and upload your memories to save experience. Die before you do and you lose all progress and experience (plus all your items, of course).
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Also remember the Impossible Bloodline's Bloodline Arcana: Constructs are treated as living creatures for the purposes of determining which spells affect them.
This should allow healing spells to be cast on them. This also solves the whole raise dead issue too. 1 level of sorcerer and the rest in a healing class and that construct has no worries.
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I have to say, Wyrwood PC sounds pretty intense.
No raise dead / resurrection / reincarnation. Getting reduced to 0 HP is the end. Pathfinder with no continues. One well-placed tiger-pounce or slam-grapple-constrict or an axe-critical, and you're rolling up a new character, while the human PC next to you is getting raised from the grave for 5k.
It might be a good set up for a rogue like where there is just a machine that churns out wyrwoods everytime they die.
Make it back to the machine and upload your memories to save experience. Die before you do and you lose all progress and experience (plus all your items, of course).
That sounds pretty cool actually. A bit like Eclipse Phase in PF.
Next question, would Enlarge netting him the extra 10 bonus HP for being medium? if yes, maybe a druid shaping into something big could work
That sounds pretty cool actually. A bit like Eclipse Phase in PF.I have to say, Wyrwood PC sounds pretty intense.
No raise dead / resurrection / reincarnation. Getting reduced to 0 HP is the end. Pathfinder with no continues. One well-placed tiger-pounce or slam-grapple-constrict or an axe-critical, and you're rolling up a new character, while the human PC next to you is getting raised from the grave for 5k.
It might be a good set up for a rogue like where there is just a machine that churns out wyrwoods everytime they die.
Make it back to the machine and upload your memories to save experience. Die before you do and you lose all progress and experience (plus all your items, of course).
Another interesting thing to note- while your experience is lost, this is not like a loss of progress in a video game. Since this run would be in the same continuity as the last run, any successes you had might still be there. The annoying midboss is still dead, and the gates are still open if the previous you killed all the people who would close them. And your respawned character would have no idea how any of this happened.
Of course, by the same token, enemy force might have regrouped and new beasts might have taken over the territory of the slain ones. Which is kind of good, since you do not want to be a lower level than the last time you fought against the thing that killed you, now do you?
Also remember the Impossible Bloodline's Bloodline Arcana: Constructs are treated as living creatures for the purposes of determining which spells affect them.
This should allow healing spells to be cast on them. This also solves the whole raise dead issue too. 1 level of sorcerer and the rest in a healing class and that construct has no worries.
I'm not sure this would solve the issue of bringing them back to life. Especially if the Wyrwood is the one that took a level of Impossible bloodline, since they would be dead when they needed to cast a raise dead spell.
But other than that, maybe go 1 level as Impossible bloodline Sorcerer and then continue on as an Alchemist. That'd let you use your own extracts to heal yourself unless the GM ruled that you couldn't as Wyrwood don't drink.
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That sounds pretty cool actually. A bit like Eclipse Phase in PF.I have to say, Wyrwood PC sounds pretty intense.
No raise dead / resurrection / reincarnation. Getting reduced to 0 HP is the end. Pathfinder with no continues. One well-placed tiger-pounce or slam-grapple-constrict or an axe-critical, and you're rolling up a new character, while the human PC next to you is getting raised from the grave for 5k.
It might be a good set up for a rogue like where there is just a machine that churns out wyrwoods everytime they die.
Make it back to the machine and upload your memories to save experience. Die before you do and you lose all progress and experience (plus all your items, of course).
Another interesting thing to note- while your experience is lost, this is not like a loss of progress in a video game. Since this run would be in the same continuity as the last run, any successes you had might still be there. The annoying midboss is still dead, and the gates are still open if the previous you killed all the people who would close them. And your respawned character would have no idea how any of this happened.
Of course, by the same token, enemy force might have regrouped and new beasts might have taken over the territory of the slain ones. Which is kind of good, since you do not want to be a lower level than the last time you fought against the thing that killed you, now do you?
If this sort of thing interests you, you should seriously check out the Eclipse Phase RPG; one of the core issues is that it's relatively easy to transfer your personality into another body. So physical death is more a setback than an end to things. However, your sanity is not unbreakable, and being restored from a backup with no idea of how you died is pretty bad for your nerves.
...What if the party took the construct apart? Would that make it several objects?
Constructs are creatures, not animated object. It cant be taken apart, and if it could then it would count as destroyed.
Next question, would Enlarge netting him the extra 10 bonus HP for being medium? if yes, maybe a druid shaping into something big could work
This is a GM call since the book assumes they don't change size after creation, but I would allow it, IF I allowed the player to use the race.
But other than that, maybe go 1 level as Impossible bloodline Sorcerer and then continue on as an Alchemist. That'd let you use your own extracts to heal yourself unless the GM ruled that you couldn't as Wyrwood don't drink.
Doesn't work. Impossible Bloodline only effects spells and Alchemists don't get spells.
"Make whole can fix destroyed magic items (at 0 hit points or less), and restores the magic properties of the item if your caster level is at least twice that of the item."
The craft construct feat can be taken at level 5, so caster level 5. No idea what level you need to be to make a Wyrwood, but 6 to 8 would sound right to me. So a 12 to 16 level Make Whole caster can revive a destroyed Wyrwood.
"Make whole can fix destroyed magic items (at 0 hit points or less), and restores the magic properties of the item if your caster level is at least twice that of the item."
The craft construct feat can be taken at level 5, so caster level 5. No idea what level you need to be to make a Wyrwood, but 6 to 8 would sound right to me. So a 12 to 16 level Make Whole caster can revive a destroyed Wyrwood.
Despite being crafted constructs are creatures, not objects so make whole can not bring them back to life. Them being perma destroyed and being expensive is why most casters(PC) never bother to try to make them.
Despite being crafted constructs are creatures, not objects so make whole can not bring them back to life. Them being perma destroyed and being expensive is why most casters(PC) never bother to try to make them.
Raise Dead / Resurrection / Reincarnation, don't work on Wyrwood's because they are not alive. There is no soul for those spells to bring back. They are Magical "constructs", subject to the same rules as an intelligent sword.
The Raise Dead spell is a 5th level spell. A Make Whole spell that can fix a destroyed Wyrwood would need to be cast a similar high level caster... Sounds balanced to me
This makes me want to talk to my DM about going the Sasori character route from naruto, but treat it more like becoming a lich. Only neutral instead of major evil. Probably won't do it though as my wizard would then just be perma-dead when brought to zero, unless I can talk my DM into one or two houserule tweaks. Not even sure what the tweaks would be perse'. I would think being allowed to be resurrected would be the main important part. Not dying at 0 would be nice, but I view it as the cost of having so many immunities.
Would a Limited wish bring one back? Or a wish?I'd require two wishes. One to recreate the body, and one to restore it to "life"
That's a a house rule though. RAW nothing brings one back. 0 HP and its gone forever.
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but doesn't "specific beat general" in terms of rules?
As nothing is an absolute, it is a general statement.So, specifically, high powered magic that says it can do anything (wish and miracle) should work.
Although, yeah. Probably two of those for good measure.
Just being pedantic :)
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I based the two castings on the resurrection line in wish:
Revive the dead. A wish can bring a dead creature back to life by duplicating a resurrection spell. A wish can revive a dead creature whose body has been destroyed, but the task takes two wishes: one to recreate the body and another to infuse the body with life again. A wish cannot prevent a character who was brought back to life from gaining a permanent negative level.
Since a construct can't normally be resurrected, neither can someone who's body has been destroyed, two castings seemed right.