Goblin Squad Member
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I was watching Nihimon's twitch yesterday, and Paul came in talking about Personal Quests.
He was saying that Personal Quests were how they were going to set up the Tutorial, and that there would be both Group and Personal quests in the game.
How would you like to see Personal Quests handled, and what kind of quests would you like to see?
Discuss :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would like to see personal quests tied to an objective that a player might want to pursue themselves. As an example - a player wants to be a Lich. To be one requires first learning how to do it. Perhaps they find a scroll somewhere that explains how to do it. That would be added to their achievement to do list and the tasks described therein. The player would then need to go through (hopefully) a lengthy process of completing these tasks and when complete - A Lich he/she now is.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think Personal Quests should be few, but quite long and involved, with rewards comparable to the drops you'd get from killing a half-dozen purple-named Ogre Behemoths, but should take a lot longer than finding and killing those Ogre Behemoths directly. There should be a fairly significant amount of work that involves a lot of travel, but perhaps not too much killing of purple-named mobs and not too much having to clear large camps.
I also really like Quietus's idea about using Personal Quests for some of the Prestige Class types of things a lot of players will want to do.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would like to know if there are quests that a smaller group can handle. We saw in the escalation party that a group of twelve have a really long battle in front of them to deescalate the cycle. Are there quests that a small group (say 6) can do, maybe for their POI. Plus I like Quietus' proposal.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm really, REALLY hoping to see some long group-focused questlines. Those are always interesting, occasionally frustrating, and definitely bonding experiences. Also the source for epic player-generated sagas and songs!
Also, +1 to Quietus' idea of long personal questlines for prestige classes.
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think Personal Quests should be few, but quite long and involved, with rewards comparable to the drops you'd get from killing a half-dozen purple-named Ogre Behemoths, but should take a lot longer than finding and killing those Ogre Behemoths directly. There should be a fairly significant amount of work that involves a lot of travel, but perhaps not too much killing of purple-named mobs and not too much having to clear large camps.
I also really like Quietus's idea about using Personal Quests for some of the Prestige Class types of things a lot of players will want to do.
I wonder if we might have enough tools to generate some of these ourselves. If not, perhaps we should crowdforge some. The contract system should help, and the hopeful lack of soulbound items means meaningful rewards can be granted by other players.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Did you guys get the impression that he was talking about long quest lines (that are with you through many adventures), or things to help you learn about the things that you want to do in the game? Things like craft, gather, PVP, find trainers, etc...
It sounded like the Tutorial type quests were absolutely happening, but that he was sounding out the group for other possibilities.
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I hope that some Faction quests are personal, and some are group. It adds a level of depth to the organizations to have the different approaches.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Did you guys get the impression that he was talking about long quest lines (that are with you through many adventures), or things to help you learn about the things that you want to do in the game? Things like craft, gather, PVP, find trainers, etc...It sounded like the Tutorial type quests were absolutely happening, but that he was sounding out the group for other possibilities.
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I hope that some Faction quests are personal, and some are group. It adds a level of depth to the organizations to have the different approaches.
Well I don't know what to say, except: That would be pretty awesome! :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I’m no in love with the idea of “Do these 25 quests and become a Lich!” But I do lioke the idea of “Here is how to make a +3 weapon.” Quest line, taking the character through specific tasks the first time. Or it could be “ Here is how to make a Hammer +2 vs. Undead” or something like that. Gather these items, do this crafting task, journey to this cemetary to get a pinch of grave dust (or whatever reagent), and go back and craft the item.
There really should be a number of racial, cultural and role related quest lines bestowing some specific skills or feats (they could be purchased outright but at a much higher cost in XPs).
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Goblin Squad Member
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How do we envision the bestowal of these personal quests?
I asked the devs about that, and the tutorial quest will likely be from NPCs with quest icons floating over their heads.
I'm a little gunshy about the EverQuest style of quests where you had to be in the right place at the right time to overhear some cryptic NPC remark that might spur you to pursue a particular course of action.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If the personal quests can lead to PrC paths I'm for it,
provided they cover every single-class build or dual-class build that enhances the path.
Like Having Shadow Dancer or Dragon Disciple for any or one class builds.
For dual-class builds, PrCs like; Eldritch Knight(Fighter + Arcane caster), Mystic Thurge(Divine + Arcane Caster), and Sacred Fist(Monk + Divine Caster)
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm really, REALLY hoping to see some long group-focused questlines. Those are always interesting, occasionally frustrating, and definitely bonding experiences. Also the source for epic player-generated sagas and songs!
Forgeholm's entire existence is due to the start of a "long, group-focused questline".
Fanndis is working on parts of our storyline to share with the forums, so I won't spoil much, but we have a reason for being in the Riverlands, and an achievable goal we are working towards as a group that is more than just "beat up on our neighbors and amass a bunch of gold."
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
+1 for long term quest lines, both for individuals and small groups.
Aside from me personally liking the idea a lot, it would also go quite a long way to give the game a somewhat more Pathfinder-table top-feel. Well, maybe not quite, but I think it would appeal greatly to those who supported PFO initially due to their love for the tt game and who now feel somewhat screwed by the development towards an almost complete predominance of PvP.
Factions and some individual prominent NPCs seem like the obvious quest-givers. Player-made quests should indeed be possible already to some extend. Also, the tavern comes to mind as a stereotypical source for quests, that would maybe provide some additional incentive for pc to visit those.
Rewards should imho not primarily be loot. Instead, the possibility to learn rare skills or recipes, reputation increases as a sort of "redemption" (sure, you've been raising the undead, but you also rescued the princess, that's gotta count for something...), an increase in faction standing, or maybe just a fancy title seem better to me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Consider Avena's and Andius' werewolf dream: after character maturation years down the road I could see significant potential as a reward for meritorious play taking the form of a real and personal adventure. Such a reward might get a lot of mileage as part of the carrot (as opposed to chaotic evil/low rep stick).
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would like a beginning quest that explains the 7+ roles one could choose to take, outline their strengths and weaknesses, explain how to multiclass in those roles if you wanted to and their pluses and minuses in doing so. Then move you on to your first level in the role you chose. Then show you the basics to gathering and crafting.
That would be something all beginning players will want to know about because there is no way that they are going to read the rules if it is more than one page long. :-)
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Goblin Squad Member
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You could even have the quest's linked to escalation cycles or special events.
Find the ancient Tome that tells you what you need to kill "Dave the Detroyer", then find the mystical tools needed, the rare materials required, find the hermit with the special ability to create the + gazillion Fly Swatter of Doom that's needed to destroy the dastardly Dave...etc...
Here's the problem I see with the current idea Quietus suggests:
The whole reason we don't have classes is because Goblinworks doesn't want to trap someone into a specific role for the whole game, due to the "purchased training time" system.
As cool as the idea is, trapping someone into the same quest has the same problem.
It depends on how long-term these quests will be.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nihimon, did you happen to record that session on Twitch? I'd really like to hear the exact words from Paul before speculating too much.
Without that, I think the most I can say with confidence is that from all the dev blogs and forum threads I've read, it sounds like GW doesn't intend to populate the River Kingdoms with quest-giving NPCs. It's part of the theme park trap: After people have done a significant portion of the quests in the game, they wait for the devs to add more. If the new quests don't come fast enough (and they basically can't, unless they're infinite 'Kill number X of enemy Y' and 'Take item X to person Y at location Z' quests) then those people get bored and leave.
Escalations sound like they'll be the primary form of scripted PVE, eventually joined by dungeons. Already, we can see escalation steps forming simple stories, like 'Take X quantity of item Y from enemy Z to frustrate their aims and de-escalate the escalation'.
Maybe if we crowdforge enough demand, there could eventually be quest chains to unlock abilities that would be equivalent to prestige classes. It might be tied to the faction system ('You have served the Red Mantis faction well. Accomplish task chain X, and we will teach you the feats of an assassin of the gods,' or 'Your obedience to the Hellknights has been noted. Do these things, and you will earn the title of Signifer, and the abilities it entails.')
Edit: If prestige feat chains were tied to factions, it would reinforce the connection to Golarion. It would also make me even more eager for the introduction of halflings. Bellflower Tiller, here I come!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nihimon, did you happen to record that session on Twitch? I'd really like to hear the exact words from Paul before speculating too much.
It's recorded, but it won't do you any good because Paul's comments were just in the text chat, which I don't believe gets saved. Sorry.
From memory, Paul and Cole were chatting with folks about the new personal quest system being built for the tutorial, and just wanted feedback about personal quests in general. I actually think it might be best if our ideas are presented without being heavily constrained.
... from all the dev blogs and forum threads I've read, it sounds like GW doesn't intend to populate the River Kingdoms with quest-giving NPCs. It's part of the theme park trap...
Remember, "Pathfinder Online is a sandbox game with theme park elements". It's just not a full-on Theme Park.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nihimon, did you happen to record that session on Twitch? I'd really like to hear the exact words from Paul before speculating too much.It's recorded, but it won't do you any good because Paul's comments were just in the text chat, which I don't believe gets saved. Sorry.
From memory, Paul and Cole were chatting with folks about the new personal quest system being built for the tutorial, and just wanted feedback about personal quests in general. I actually think it might be best if our ideas are presented without being heavily constrained.
You're probably right. Sometimes arguing for something that's not in the plan is good.
... from all the dev blogs and forum threads I've read, it sounds like GW doesn't intend to populate the River Kingdoms with quest-giving NPCs. It's part of the theme park trap...Remember, "Pathfinder Online is a sandbox game with theme park elements". It's just not a full-on Theme Park.
You're definitely right this time; it's supposed to have elements of both. Quest givers might be one of its theme park elements. Quest givers in the tutorial stage are pretty common, even for sandbox games. Beyond that stage, they're more common in theme parks than sandboxes.
Also, I probably should have separated my previous post into two posts. Only the question at the beginning was specifically aimed toward you. The rest was intended for the thread readers at large.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I want to see some interesting PVP quest chains. Something that gives you a reason for what you do without you having to decide what you want to do. Like another reason to PVP for people that can't decide who they would like to go kill.
I don't know whether there will be quest chains involved, but I think the faction system is one thing that's intended to fill that role. If your settlement is at peace, and your company has no active feuds, go out and garner glory for the Mendevian Crusaders by killing Worldwound Demoniac faction members, or punish Aspis Consortium members for their faction's opposition to the Pathfinder Society. As I recall the system, as long as you've both publicly declared your allegiances, and reached a certain threshold level with your respective factions, you don't risk reputation loss for killing each other.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That could be part of the system for reaching higher levels of faction standing. Different factions could even have different requirements for the same level. One faction might want you to fight X number of battles without dying. Another might demand that you kill X number of PCs with a particular type of attack (backstabbing, or beheading, or coup de gras), or a certain weapon (sawtooth saber, or a deity's favored weapon).
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm really, REALLY hoping to see some long group-focused questlines. Those are always interesting, occasionally frustrating, and definitely bonding experiences. Also the source for epic player-generated sagas and songs!
Forgeholm's entire existence is due to the start of a "long, group-focused questline".
Fanndis is working on parts of our storyline to share with the forums, so I won't spoil much, but we have a reason for being in the Riverlands, and an achievable goal we are working towards as a group that is more than just "beat up on our neighbors and amass a bunch of gold."
Kudos to Forgeholm! I hope we see more of this approach.
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Forgeholm's entire existence is due to the start of a "long, group-focused questline".
Fanndis is working on parts of our storyline to share with the forums, so I won't spoil much, but we have a reason for being in the Riverlands, and an achievable goal we are working towards as a group that is more than just "beat up on our neighbors and amass a bunch of gold."
Uh oh! The pressure is on! I am working on the story of how Gorim came to be chosen by the Elder Council of Highhelm under High King Borogrim the Hale and what mission the King has tasked Gorim with. In Golarion lore there are VERY few Dwarves in the River Kingdoms (Mivon has approx. 6% population of Dwarves, and that's pretty much it), but King Borogrim has a mission. I am getting input from our members and working on the story, putting together the makings of the diversity of Forgeholm (we hope to get a large number of Gnomes and Halflings, as well as any neutral, lawful and good characters that need to "get away from it all" for a while; escaped prisoners, runaway slaves, those seeking solitude, redemption, or independent research).
For any Forgeholm citizens or applicants, please jump over to the Forgeholm website and post your backstory. I have sent Gorim the first two parts for review...so far so good.