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I want to build a character that will be PFS legal and have the highest number of uses for Harrow deck. (By this I mean actually pulling out the physical cards.). I'm thinking Suite a Seeker but open to others.
Thanks in advance.
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haha. Oh, yes. I share a similiar plight.
Well, get the Harrowed Feat, allowing you to pull cards to get bonuses
Make sure you play either a wizard, sorcerer, witch, or bard (bard being least favorable) and get the Harrowing spell, or find some other way to get that particular third level spell. Same with Greater Harrowing at 5th level.
Make sure to get the Harrow Born, or Harrow Chosen Traits, so you can start with a deck. Or, the cartomancer archetype, I suppose.
I hope the Advanced Class book has some other options. I want to be slinging some cards at the table :)
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Card Caster Witch uses her Harrow deck for everything. Familiar, weapon, touch spells, the lot. They even return when she throws them around. She gets a deck free (still buy a spare).
You want highest number of uses, this girl doesn't really *function* without a pack of cards in her hands.
Having said that, I think it's one of the strongest Witch Archetypes, and bear in mind you are already a tier 1 Witch.
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Card Caster Witch uses her Harrow deck for everything. Familiar, weapon, touch spells, the lot. They even return when she throws them around. She gets a deck free (still buy a spare).
You want highest number of uses, this girl doesn't really *function* without a pack of cards in her hands.
Having said that, I think it's one of the strongest Witch Archetypes, and bear in mind you are already a tier 1 Witch.
Card Caster = Magus
Cartomancer = WitchYou're right that the character theoretically uses their deck for everything, but practically speaking, they don't draw cards out of an actual harrow deck much.
OP wants to maximize pulling out the physical cards so a Cartomancer is actually a poor choice.
Card Caster is also a poor choice for the OP's needs. They would almost never actually draw a physical card.
I think a Story Summoner 7 / Harrower X with the Harrowed feat and scrolls of Harrowing/Greater Harrowing spells could pull the most cards.
Maybe you hurry and make an Aasimar/Tiefling so that you can qualify for entry at 6th level instead of 8th?
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Tomos, they do draw their cards. It's no prop, it's integral.
The Cartomancer (sorry for using the wrong name) can use her Deadly Dealer feat to land touch attacks with her spells. That is the major part of the archetype.
She's a Witch, she doesn't care about causing damage with the cards (even though they get free Arcane Strike and Returning).
No, it's that she gets ranged touch attacks.
Here are some Witch spells she can use at range with her cards:
Chill Touch, Cure/Inflict Various Wounds spells (!), Delay Disease, Frostbite, Infernal Healing, Disfiguring Touch, Enemy's Heart, Touch of Idiocy...
I have only briefly looked at level 1 and 2 spells here.
The Cartomancer Witch indeed *pulls out the physical cards* and can cast Touch of Idiocy as a ranged touch attack. Which she obviously combines with Evil Eye and Misfortune and Cackle because she's a Witch.
She draw cards all the time. On the battlefield she is chucking them around like confetti.
Plus, Witch isn't the most feat-intensive class so she can get those Harrower feats.
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No really, if you read the text of Cartomancer, there are no mentions of needing to actually draw a card out of a physical harrow deck at the table.
Like, this kind of Harrow Deck. Not the imaginary one that the PC carries around in a pouch on its belt.
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Ah, sorry. You mean the player at the table draws the card. Duh.
I misunderstood.
I'd still be a Cartomancer with the Harrower deck feats and use it as an excuse to play with cards at the table. The Harrower PrC is the best for it, but the only good entry I can think of is Wizard 5 as it is early and you don't lose much Wizard class abilities.
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@Captain K: Figured as much :D
I think Cartomancer is really cool. Just started one in PFS myself.
Harrower PrC definitely uses the most harrow cards for class abilities.
I think I read somewhere that you're supposed to not do elaborate/unnecessary stuff with harrow cards at the table to avoid making things take longer than necessary. Things like IC 'full harrow readings' with theatrics, crystal balls, and scary ghost sound effects is probably what they had in mind though.
You'd think they would have put more options into the Harrow Handbook to allow a player to physically draw cards. It would have sold more harrow decks I think.
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I wish they sold like a dinky harrow phone app. That would sell pretty good and still be usuable with people playing online versions.
Instead of rolling dice to simulate. (though thats not hard)
That would be cool.
You can use a standard pack of playing cards instead of the dull dice though.
The Carnival is 3 of Diamonds, the Paladin is King of Hearts etc.
Thanks for the responses. Yes, I'm looking for the added flair of actually pulling physical cards but also classes that rely on the cards, in game heavily. Ill do some more digging and post a couple of builds here at a later time
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I recently got a sylph boon which I'm thinking of making into the card caster magus. At third level and up drawing cards matching your alignment increases the threat range, so you have to draw a real card per attack you make. Pick up rapid shot, haste, pretty soon you'll be throwing 4-5 cards a turn in combat.
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Since I ended up with a Harrow deck, I also wanted to use it as much as possible. However, I chose the Cartomancer for play. I had absolutely no spells or abilities at level 1 that required me to have a deck on hand. I couldn't even throw cards yet!
However, I brought the deck to the game, and while I had no mechanical reason for pulling cards, I started pulling cards anyway. Then using those cards and their meaning from the booklet to 'read' the furture to my party.
After the mission briefing, pulling cards and telling the party how our mission would go.
Climbing a mountain and pulling a card, then warning the party of an avalanche (our trail was later blocked by an avalanche).
Finding a cave and pulling a card, then saying we should keep going and not enter. Party diagreed and entered. (turns out there were monsters inside).
Pulling a card and declairing a trap up ahead (there was an ambushing monster ahead).
By the time we were near the end of the adventure, most of the party took my card reading into consideration before making descisions, and at least one party member trusted them completely, insisting on doing what the cards said because they were never wrong.
So the deck became a major part of the scenario, and kept my character actively involved with the party at all times. So much so it wasn't until two days later that my husband, who was a part of the party, realized that my witch hadn't actually mechnaically contributed to the schenario at all (in a six person party with a gunslinger,a barbarian, and a low initiative modifier, everything was dead before my turn).
Even though some classes may not have a mechanical RAW reason for having the physical Harrow Deck at the table, that doesn't mean you can't use them for delicious Roleplaying flavor! The cards can be used as a prop that enhances the experience of yourself and anyone at the table with you. This possibly isn't as desireable to the OP as using them for the rules reasons you'd be required to have them at the table would be, however it is an option.
That being said, as soon as I get 3rd level spells Harrow will be the first one taken.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Since I ended up with a Harrow deck, I also wanted to use it as much as possible. However, I chose the Cartomancer for play. I had absolutely no spells or abilities at level 1 that required me to have a deck on hand. I couldn't even throw cards yet!
However, I brought the deck to the game, and while I had no mechanical reason for pulling cards, I started pulling cards anyway. Then using those cards and their meaning from the booklet to 'read' the furture to my party.
After the mission briefing, pulling cards and telling the party how our mission would go.
Climbing a mountain and pulling a card, then warning the party of an avalanche (our trail was later blocked by an avalanche).
Finding a cave and pulling a card, then saying we should keep going and not enter. Party diagreed and entered. (turns out there were monsters inside).
Pulling a card and declairing a trap up ahead (there was an ambushing monster ahead).By the time we were near the end of the adventure, most of the party took my card reading into consideration before making descisions, and at least one party member trusted them completely, insisting on doing what the cards said because they were never wrong.
So the deck became a major part of the scenario, and kept my character actively involved with the party at all times. So much so it wasn't until two days later that my husband, who was a part of the party, realized that my witch hadn't actually mechnaically contributed to the schenario at all (in a six person party with a gunslinger,a barbarian, and a low initiative modifier, everything was dead before my turn).
Even though some classes may not have a mechanical RAW reason for having the physical Harrow Deck at the table, that doesn't mean you can't use them for delicious Roleplaying flavor! The cards can be used as a prop that enhances the experience of yourself and anyone at the table with you. This possibly isn't as desireable to the OP as using them for the rules reasons you'd be required to have them at the table...
I'm doing a similar thing in a non-PFS PbP game right now. I roll 1d54 and have a table that I use to determine which card has been pulled, and give advice often during adventuring based on what the card says. I think the other players really enjoy it.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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The additional resources list needs a little bit of an update, they forgot to take those off the restricted list when they made the Harrow Handbook legal. I'm sure someone can find you a link to Mike Brock saying they're legal, I don't have the time at the moment to search through his posts....
Hunh, you're right, which is odd, because the Greater Harrowing spell IS legal. It makes no sense that the harrowing spell still is.
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The additional resources list needs a little bit of an update, they forgot to take those off the restricted list when they made the Harrow Handbook legal. I'm sure someone can find you a link to Mike Brock saying they're legal, I don't have the time at the moment to search through his posts....
Yeah, cool you are correct. Both the feat and spell are legal, it's just not updated yet.
additional resources thread|
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Since I ended up with a Harrow deck, I also wanted to use it as much as possible. However, I chose the Cartomancer for play. I had absolutely no spells or abilities at level 1 that required me to have a deck on hand. I couldn't even throw cards yet!
However, I brought the deck to the game, and while I had no mechanical reason for pulling cards, I started pulling cards anyway. Then using those cards and their meaning from the booklet to 'read' the furture to my party.
After the mission briefing, pulling cards and telling the party how our mission would go.
Climbing a mountain and pulling a card, then warning the party of an avalanche (our trail was later blocked by an avalanche).
Finding a cave and pulling a card, then saying we should keep going and not enter. Party diagreed and entered. (turns out there were monsters inside).
Pulling a card and declairing a trap up ahead (there was an ambushing monster ahead).By the time we were near the end of the adventure, most of the party took my card reading into consideration before making descisions, and at least one party member trusted them completely, insisting on doing what the cards said because they were never wrong.
So the deck became a major part of the scenario, and kept my character actively involved with the party at all times. So much so it wasn't until two days later that my husband, who was a part of the party, realized that my witch hadn't actually mechnaically contributed to the schenario at all (in a six person party with a gunslinger,a barbarian, and a low initiative modifier, everything was dead before my turn).
Even though some classes may not have a mechanical RAW reason for having the physical Harrow Deck at the table, that doesn't mean you can't use them for delicious Roleplaying flavor! The cards can be used as a prop that enhances the experience of yourself and anyone at the table with you. This possibly isn't as desireable to the OP as using them for the rules reasons you'd be required to have them at the table...
This is awesome!
Totally stealing this for my Cartomancer.
Were you, by chance, playing ...
Yes, we were.
It would certainly have synergy, but I think it would be a waste... the Suit Seeker's level 20 ability is amazing, capable of 1 shotting a Tarasque. You don't wanna give that away.
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It would certainly have synergy, but I think it would be a waste... the Suit Seeker's level 20 ability is amazing, capable of 1 shotting a Tarasque. You don't wanna give that away.
DANG Suit Seeker!
I just rebuilt my Tiefling Sorcerer into a Harrow Bloodline. He's pretty cool, but I'm trying to make make sense...|
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In my experience, a 20th level capstone might as well not exist. This may change in your games, but Adventure Paths end at 16, Normal PFS play ends at 11, and the last time I was 20 in a home game was in a different edition of a different game.
That's true. I don't know why people do that though. People get so good around lvl 15, and amazing around lvl 20.
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That's true. I don't know why people do that though. People get so good around lvl 15, and amazing around lvl 20.In my experience, a 20th level capstone might as well not exist. This may change in your games, but Adventure Paths end at 16, Normal PFS play ends at 11, and the last time I was 20 in a home game was in a different edition of a different game.
Mostly because high-level play is broken.
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Mostly because high-level play is broken.That's true. I don't know why people do that though. People get so good around lvl 15, and amazing around lvl 20.In my experience, a 20th level capstone might as well not exist. This may change in your games, but Adventure Paths end at 16, Normal PFS play ends at 11, and the last time I was 20 in a home game was in a different edition of a different game.
Too true. Though I think that a homebrew game where everyone starts at level 20 could be pretty awesome. Fighting major devils and demons and maybe even lesser gods. And not to mention, with Bestiary 4- CTHULHU!!!