What class do you play on his game?
Well, indeed fairness is a quality that most players seek in a GM, and for several reasons that may not happen according to plan.
For instance, the GM could be unable to resist the charms of your paladina, and thus give her more options than to the other players.
I get really pissed off with that, but in the games I run sometimes you can't just avoid it. Some players are just weak, or do not seek the optimal build, which can make the seem pretty useless in comparison to the rest of the party. So yeah, sometimes you have to empower them in some way, be it mechanically or interpretative.
If you don't want to be pissed off by that you have a couple options. First, you could request some nice upgrades for your own character, like a fey blessing, or a magical instrument that improved your abilities, perhaps a full BAB?
Also, instead of getting angry about it, you could seek the reason why your GM is doing that. Maybe the girl is just crazy and needs constant change in order to be a decent player on the group, maybe she just needs attention, or maybe she is seducing your GM, or maybe she likes YOU and keeps thinking of ways to show you how good she is. Whatever the reason, there are several ways for you to help in countering it, for example, trying to give her several other options of gods to worship!
There's also the "do not mind" option. It's usually the simplest and more prosperous idea, but a very hard one for players who worry too much about their "power". Specially if you are a Power Gamer. Rules are meant to be broken. Simply do not mind, everyone has their needs and objectives. Let her fulfill hers while you have fun in the parts you like. After all, this is not World of Darkness. She is playing with you, and not against you.
I hope you find your path!
My question is what good reasonable arguements can i bring to my GM to get him to understand that this is unfair?
I don't believe you would be able to do that. In his mind what he does makes perfect sense. He will not be able to go back on his permissions once that's done, so your multi-god-phrasing paladin will remain like that for, well, ever...
Anyway, the bard is the most versatile class in the game. If she bothers you, and you think her strategy does not make sense, you could just cast Silence inside your tent, in the middle of an important combat, and go back to sleep. Chaos is the keyword against Rules.
did you speak with him and told him with manners that you think is unfair and that you feel like this is cheat. a good GM hears his players, if he doesn't take you in account, just don't play more with him and that's it.
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My question is what good reasonable arguements can i bring to my GM to get him to understand that this is unfair?
My first question is, "How is this unfair?" Seriously, if fairness is determined by all players having a roughly equal ability to influence the game, how is the flip flop paladin unfair? Has her god-of-the-week granted her abilities beyond those of the rest of the party an caused an imbalance?
If not, then perhaps it isn't unfair, but instead just very annoying because the character is breaking consistency and isn't being held to the restrictions of the class. If that is the case perhaps you could present the DM with that if he doesn't consider fairness to be an issue.
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Just to get it out of the way, I don't see what the PC's gender has to do with anything. Moving on...
Many females get preferential treatment as a way to pander to them to get them to stick around. It's obvious to everyone else at the table, and it's very annoying.
Yes, I am frustrated by this. I definitely think there is some favoritism going on too. As a LN warpriest i broke a law (I broke into a house). My GM forced an alignment change from LN to NN. But then allowed me to regain my LN status after !2! Sessions of Lawful play. But the antipaladin can rescue a little girl and become motherly towards it and follow the laws of all towns she enters and never even gets a second glance... And this is not the only complaint I have about my GM. He does crap like this all the time. Like. Introducing my character. He told me to come over a little before 2. I showed up at 2, took a minute to get situated. The group was prepping on how to get to their next location and I sat down, ready. Then my GM proceeded to skip directly to when they had arrived at this location and I asked if he was going to implement me. To witch he replied"oh, I didn't know u were ready". But made no changes and the party went through a !4! Hour dungeon crawl that I wasn't able to be involved in... Which is completely dumb. He had predicted the crawl to only take 3 hours, but still!
Next time leave and tell him to call you when he's actually ready for you. No joke. Your time is no less valuable.
Mechanics are not counterbalanced by roleplaying restrictions. They exist on two different planes.
They are when the mechanics force a certain kind of roleplay. Ignore that roleplay and you're literally ignoring the rules.
well, let's just put it this way, if your having fun, there shouldn't really be an issue, if your not having fun, invoke rule 0 and make the GM do something or leave.
I'm talking from a good design standpoint.
If you made a class based on the wizard, only it must be LN, eat an apple on the second Tuesday of every month, never shave, and only speak in questions, or lose its powers until it atones, that does not justify giving it a single more spell slot than normal, or increasing save DCs by 1, or any such thing.
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Just to get it out of the way, I don't see what the PC's gender has to do with anything. Moving on...Many females get preferential treatment as a way to pander to them to get them to stick around. It's obvious to everyone else at the table, and it's very annoying.
I've never actually seen this happen. I'm sure it does, but it doesn't seem nearly as common as people make it out to be (or as it might've been a couple of decades ago).
Now, the whole 'GM's girlfriend favoritism' thing, that I've seen, but that was clearly based on "We're dating and I want to impress and please this person." rather than gender per se.
So...I really wouldn't leap to this conclusion, especially since it's an extraordinarily insulting thing to bring up (towards the GM, and potentially towards the player by implication), and not useful in the least (I mean...who cares why any favoritism there might be is occurring? Why is speculating on this useful at all?)
Just to get it out of the way, I don't see what the PC's gender has to do with anything. Moving on...Many females get preferential treatment as a way to pander to them to get them to stick around. It's obvious to everyone else at the table, and it's very annoying.I've never actually seen this happen. I'm sure it does, but it doesn't seem nearly as common as people make it out to be (or as it might've been a couple of decades ago).
Now, the whole 'GM's girlfriend favoritism' thing, that I've seen, but that was clearly based on "We're dating and I want to impress and please this person." rather than gender per se.
So...I really wouldn't leap to this conclusion, especially since it's an extraordinarily insulting thing to bring up (towards the GM, and potentially towards the player by implication), and not useful in the least (I mean...who cares why any favoritism there might be is occurring? Why is speculating on this useful at all?)
I have seen it before but not as people describe it, it's more like the guy doesn't want to make the girl sad, not so much I NEED TO IMPRESS HER, they just feel more awkward trying to tell a girl no than a guy, because it's harder for them to hurt a girls feelings than a guy. just like how I can punch a guy, but can't will myself to punch a girl.
but yeah, i agree, bringing it up doesn't really solve anything, as has been mentioned, either file a complaint with the GM, deal with it, ask for a favor of your own, or leave if the collective bad decisions are getting to you.
Yes, I am frustrated by this. I definitely think there is some favoritism going on too. As a LN warpriest i broke a law (I broke into a house). My GM forced an alignment change from LN to NN. But then allowed me to regain my LN status after !2! Sessions of Lawful play. But the antipaladin can rescue a little girl and become motherly towards it and follow the laws of all towns she enters and never even gets a second glance... And this is not the only complaint I have about my GM. He does crap like this all the time. Like. Introducing my character. He told me to come over a little before 2. I showed up at 2, took a minute to get situated. The group was prepping on how to get to their next location and I sat down, ready. Then my GM proceeded to skip directly to when they had arrived at this location and I asked if he was going to implement me. To witch he replied"oh, I didn't know u were ready". But made no changes and the party went through a !4! Hour dungeon crawl that I wasn't able to be involved in... Which is completely dumb. He had predicted the crawl to only take 3 hours, but still!
A couple things I think:
1. The GM has a thing for the girl2. The GM has something against you
3. Life isn't fair, especially to those who complain about unfairness
Now to your latter point. The GM told you to show up before 2, you showed up at 2 and took some time to get your stuff together. Think on that for a moment. Granted, that does't mean the GM needs to be a complete asshat and ignore you. It sounds like the best option in your case is for you to walk and find another game.
A couple things I think:
1. The GM has a thing for the girl
2. The GM has something against you
We r dating, as players, me and the antipaladin.
Huh... would you look at that.
I don't consider the Paladin/Anti-Paladin to be overall any stronger than the Barbarian or Ranger with Instant Enemy, nor am I fan of alignment being a restriction on class choice. With that in mind, who cares if the character in question can mix and match Pally/Anti-Pally abilities; they abilities are mostly just mirror opposites of each other anyway. It's like an archetype that should already exist.
Now if you're saying the character got all the benefits of both Paladin and Anti-Paladin, then I would agree with you. As is, if you have a DM willing to work with players to do some cool rules contrary but not overpowered ability swaps, maybe you should see if you could get something interesting from one of the Bard archetypes that no one takes because it replaces Inspire Courage without taking the full archetype.
The way i see it, the reason paladin and antipaladin are more powerful (even if only slightly) is because they are restricted to a code and if they break/do not meet this code, then they loose their power. Which checks them into balance. This is my opinion.
This situation amply demonstrates why RP restrictions fail to provide game balance in any way.
It sounds to me like what you have here is a game being used as a way to cause relationship issues. I find that 100% not cool, and I totally get why you are unhappy. I have definitely seen this before, some groups have no problem with female gamers, some have all kinds of social dynamics nightmares, and some groups have no male gamers (I can't have been in one of them by virtue of being male, but they do exist.) I don't know you or the other people in your game, but I would think about the social dynamics before doing anything if I were you.
A couple things I think:
1. The GM has a thing for the girl
2. The GM has something against youWe r dating, as players, me and the antipaladin.Huh... would you look at that.
Lol. This is probably your answer to the motives. As to the directive.
Like. Introducing my character. He told me to come over a little before 2. I showed up at 2, took a minute to get situated. The group was prepping on how to get to their next location and I sat down, ready. Then my GM proceeded to skip directly to when they had arrived at this location and I asked if he was going to implement me. To witch he replied"oh, I didn't know u were ready". But made no changes and the party went through a !4! Hour dungeon crawl that I wasn't able to be involved in... Which is completely dumb. He had predicted the crawl to only take 3 hours, but still!
This is an unreasonable response and completely out of bounds. For one thing, any worth-while and caring GM would have worked you in, even if it took some time to find the opportune moment. The GM was practically treating you like a child and placing you in time out for being a little late, in front of your girlfriend. 1)That's unkind and out of line 2) It's a waste of your time. If you showed up to play and expected to, and just sat around for 4 hours. That's wasted time. Your punishment should have been as simple as, you don't get an in depth introduction to the campaign or you have to wait to be worked in. This was personal and probably only going to be avoidable in the future by confronting him about it. Do it kindly, but make it clear that you feel like you are being mistreated and it feels personal. Honestly, though, I wouldn't bother showing up to the next one because it's probably only ever going to get worse. Believe me, the last thing you want is the almighty GM coming between you and her.
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Beyond you having to sit there for 4 hours (which was a terrible decision. In those cases fun trumps proper RP or story, even though you didn't get their early like he asked you to do)
But for everything else you talked about, I don't see the problem. One player getting to change their character doesn't mean it is unfair to everyone else who has NOT asked to change their character.
If you want to make changes, make the change and tell the DM, and if they say no THEN you have an argument for the DM to let you do it. But whatever you do, never say "but it's not fair", that will come across as whining and you for sure won't get what you want. Find a different phrase, like "properly managed expectations".
I'd much rather a DM allowed people to make changes than not, since often you pick something, and after one session you realize "that was a crappy choice" and then want to make a change, which is why a lot of online games allow pretty cheap respeccing nowadays compared to 10 years ago. Maybe the player got bored, who knows. Better to keep everything interesting and everyone having fun. It's not actually affecting you, and I advise you to separate yourself from the situation and spend less time thinking about what other people are doing. This will help in all of life besides just the game, because believe me this is only the beginning of watching some people get treated differently than others.
Have you considered bringing your concerns up with her? I mean, if you're dating I would assume you've established some sort of rapport and can talk to each other.
As a side note, the TN Paladin actually sounds like a cool idea to me. They could be an exemplar of balance, being able to smite any non-neutral alignment.
That whole part about being invited over for a game, being asked to arrive early, and then being told to sit off to the side for a dungeon crawl for four hours is definitely something that I would discuss with something... not even necessarily from a GM/Player perspective, but from a friend/respect perspective.
However... what is up with some of the other things in this thread?
What does this player being female have anything to do with it? The whole "many females get preferential treatment" speech was mindblowing...
I have played with some really awful gamers before and I never stared at them across the table, stroked my chin thoughtful and thought to myself "Hm... this must be because he's a man..."
Personally, I had always thought that a Paladin should be a paragon of the ideals that a specific deity represents and that they should always strive to uphold them. The concept of a Paladin, Antipaladin or Greyguard should follow the dogma of their faith in a way that even other divine spellcasters should admire.
Has there been anything in combat where this player has totally obliterated your enemies and you found the group muttering about how the fight 'totally would have gone differently if only she had lay on hands instead of corrupting touch' or is this more frustration relating to, as another poster commented, her getting a customized class and you feeling left out?
Just be an adult about it. Communicate, give your GM the courtesy of a conversation to let him know what is bothering you. But at the same time... present the things that bother you as facts as opposed to basing them on a preconceived notion of gender...