Never built a Paladin before, but a game I'm joining needs a primary healer, and I didn't want to play a Cleric or Oracle, so I got to thinking a Paladin might be a good idea.
The group currently consists of a Bard, a Summoner, an Unbreakable Fighter (who will likely be my shoulder to shoulder buddy, he's taking Fey Foundling if I recall for double the fun), and an undecided.
I picked a Paladin because I wanted a character that could dish it out about as well as he could heal it up, and I'm already playing two Oracles so didn't feel like rolling up another like a Battle Oracle. I'm having a bit of trouble getting things to fall into place though.
I know an Archer is probably the most optimal, but I really don't want to play one. My preferred would be a sword and board, but a 2H fighter works fine for me too if that turns out to be too Feat intensive with the "primary healer" idea as the main focus.
So, basically, the part I need help with is enhancing the healing aspect by a lot without sacrificing the ability to wallop evil in the face.
Currently all I've got is "Probably want to be a Hospitaler", "Maybe mix Warrior of the Holy Light with it for all the LoH", and "Charisma is a good stat". It's 20 PB, all Paizo sources open (as well as some 3rd party stuff on a case by case basis so if anyone knows of a balanced 3rd party heal-em-up-knock-em-down type class or balanced Feats I'd love to hear them).
Mostly what I need is Feat suggestions to maximize the healing output, both for myself and others. If it comes out that I need a whole ton of Feats to do it, I always have a big Hammer/Greatsword/Whatever and Power Attack to fall back on while I pile on the other stuff.
Potential stats: 16 12 14 12 7 14?
Help?
So far I'm thinking I may go:
Male Human Paladin (Hospitaler/Warrior of the Holy Light) 1
Str: 16
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 8
Wis: 7
Cha: 16
Because who needs to be smart or wise, amirite?
Feats:
1.) Fey Foundling (hey, gotta be good at healing myself too)
1.) Power Attack (all a real man needs anyway)
3.) Greater Mercy
5.) ???
7.) ???
9.) Ultimate Mercy (earlier if I can manage it, but this is probably the earliest)
11.) ???
13.) ???
15.) Channeled Revival? (bit lackluster compared to Ultimate Mercy in pure output sense, but pretty cheap at only 3 uses of Channel Energy, pulled from a separate pool).
Skills: Heal (at least, enough ranks to auto-pass the DC 10 check to tell my buddy's still alive with Tenacious Survivor) and Diplomacy?
Considering all those extra Feats in there I don't know what to do with, I may swap to Angel Blooded Aasimar and go back to 16 12 14 12 7 14 pre-racial, or suck it up and rock the two 18's at first and the dumb as a rock-ness that goes with it.
Not sure which is better.
I'm trying to avoid being TOO much of a Smite machine. This is a game with mostly inexperienced players (all but one of which I introduced to the game) so I don't want to be mowing down everything in my path. I basically just want to be combat viable while being really good at healing, and Smite acting as my "Kick it into overdrive" when things get nasty.
They were down a man, they needed a healer, so I'm making a healer...just one who can kick some righteous ass for the lord on the side (since they really only have one guy who can act as a frontliner).
Sounds like a fun build though, I won't lie.
Definitely taking those Bracers though.
Do you know any Feat or item that increases your effective Cleric level for Channel? Not the Phylactery of Positive Channeling (though I'ma get me one of them too).
I'm trying to avoid being TOO much of a Smite machine
I did that for my last table top game too. I went human Hospitaler and took fey foundling, greater mercy, power attack, outflank, quick channel, selective channel. I found paladin spell casting very useful, particularly shield other and the litanies.
Generally I'd get in the face of the enemy with a 2h wespon and full attack, swift action self healing as needed. The shield other was typically on the party's fighter and it made him noticibly more durable.
When I killed something I'd use a move action selective channel (if in needed) and and maybe a standard action channel or I'd use a quick runners shirt and charge the next enemy.
I did good damage but (purposefully) didn't outshine the party's fighter unless we were fighting something that took double smite damage.
Everyone at the table appreciated the healing and outflank was a popular feat choice too.
This isn't specifically about what you're trying to do, but consider Oath Against Fiends, which works with Hospitaler. Some cool abilities, and resist energy as a 1st level paladin spell.
Check out the Oradin.
Seconding the Oradin, it's a nice take on a healing paladin. Takes a little while to get going though.
Hmm. Gives me something to think about. I really didn't want to make another Oracle, but the Oradin/Holy Vindicator sounds kinda tasty. I always thought that PrC was pretty cool.
Think I may do it, if only for 1 level. Probably 3rd, then sprinkle some more levels in there otherwise?
Problem is Hospitaler already gets so few Smites, this essentially means I'll only every get two throughout the whole game (RotRL), getting a third as a capstone at 16th.
Only one if I go Holy Vindicator, most likely, unless I drop Hospitaler. Which I guess is an option since all it will be providing is that 1d6 or so Channel since I'd be stacking with Oracle Channel I'm sure. Hm.
Eh. I'll drop Holy Vindicator.
So, probably go something like Paladin 2/Oracle 1/Paladin 2/Oracle 2/Paladin X seem like a solid progression? Grabbing Life Link and the Oracle's Channel, along with the...Lame Curse most likely.
Feats:
1.) Fey Foundling
3.) Power Attack
5.) Greater Mercy
7.) ???
9.) Ultimate Mercy?
11-15.) Who knows.
Traits: If my GM will let me, that Finding Haleen trait is pretty rad. Likewise Exalted of the Society (requires Cleric). If not, Blessed Touch is pretty good, and Heavenly Touch (at-will instantly stabilize someone dying with a touch) just seems cool.
Yes, Finding Haleen is ridiculous, but it is specific to Legacy of Fire, so don't be surprised if he says no.
Consider as your 15th level feat Deific Obedience with Sarenrae as your patron. The feat itself is pretty lame, giving you only a +2 bonus to Perception from Sarenrae, but it will let you dip one level into Sentinel at level 16. This will net you the 2nd Sentinel boon for Sarenrae, which you can acquire at level 16. The 2nd boon, specifically, makes it cost only 1 lay on hands use instead of 2 uses to channel energy. It also gets you fireball 1/day CL=your character level from the 1st boon, but that's not as useful to your build.
If psionics are allowed a vitalist is more mad but IMO 10x better as your swift lay hands can be given to anyone in the collective. Seen both in play at higher levels and a small dip is nice. YMMV
No-go on Finding Haleen (though I expected that).
Actually Psionics IS allowed, but my Wis leaves much to be desired and I don't really have the stat points to be good in combat and still have a solid Wis.
Well actually that's not true.
I could go: 14 12 14 7 12 16 or something but having a 7 Int makes me a very sad man.
Though I guess I'm not losing any more skill points out of it, now I think of it...but even then it's only 1 guy in my Collective. Then again, it'd only be one guy with my Life Link anyway, so *shrugs*. I'll look into it.
@Rudy: I thought about that but it's based on HD...meaning that would essentially be my capstone. Not particularly worth building around IMO.
@Justin Sane: Eh...why Eldritch Heritage: Abyssal? Flavor-wise it's ech and power-wise it's the same as Orc (which isn't quite as bad for flavor). Actually that's not true. IMO Touch of Rage is tons better than claws a few times a day. Plus Orc has a solid, usable ability for Greater Eldritch Heritage should I so choose to take it.
Thanks for the general idea though, think I'll go for that.
Ah. That would be pretty neat yeah.
The problem with Claws is they're basically redundant with Heavy Armor, which come equipped with gauntlets.
Are you sure you need the oracle levels. I bet you can manage without.
Here's a Build which gets you a useable Ultimate Mercy at level 8, the earliest I think it can be reasonably managed:
Consider the same point buy you indicated above:
Str 15 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 7 Cha 15
Str 15 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 7 Cha 17
First point goes into Strength, second into charisma, rest into strength. A +2 charisma item will be enough to qualify you for Ultimate Mercy.
1. Paladin 1. Feat: Fey Foundling.
2. Paladin 2.
3. Oracle 1. Revelation: Life link. Favored Class: Boost life link. Feat: Extra Lay on Hands
4: Oracle 2. Favored Class: Boost life link (now you can link to 3 people)
5: Paladin 3. Feat: Greater Mercy
6: Paladin 4.
7: Paladin 5. Feat: Ultimate Mercy (provided you can get a +2 charisma item by this point)
8: Paladin 6. (Here your charisma goes to 18 (20 with the +2 charisma item), so with the Extra Lay on Hands you have exactly enough Lay on Hands uses (10) to use Ultimate Mercy
9: Paladin 7. Feat: Whatever
10: Paladin 8.
11: Paladin 9. Feat: Whatever.
12: Paladin 10.
13: Paladin 11
14: Paladin 12
15: Paladin 13
16: Paladin 14
Probably on the Oracle, yeah. Life Link looks more and more lackluster the more I look at it.
But I'm really liking the idea of one level of Vitalist for the Collective.
Even if it's only on one person, it's really good. Swift action healing for someone else is worth a level of another class IMO.
Just not sure WHEN. Gut says either 3rd or 5th are the best levels for it, but I could be wrong.
Hmm that does sound quite powerful.
@johhov: i'm stealing the inheritor's light, that is an amazing thing. many thanks!
@OP: certainly not of my creation, but here's a neat idea for you--it's powerful but deceptively simple.
Lay On Hand-iman (credit to damocles guile)
LG tiefling (demon-spawn) paladin (oath of vengeance + oath against fiends) 20
str 28 (5+2), dex 18 (2), con 20 (5), int 18 (2) , wis 16 (1-2), cha 28 (5+2)
str/str/cha/cha/wis (level), +6 all (gear), +4 str/cha (book/wish)
traits: reactionary / magical knack (paladin)
mercies: fatigue, sickened, dazed, nauseated, staggered
divine bond: +6 bonus, 4/day
example bond (melee or ranged): +4 holy
example bond (armor): +3 medium fortification
LoH: 30 (10 level +8cha +2gear +10 feat)
feats:
1 - fey foundling
3 - power attack
5 - deadly aim
7 - extra LoH
9 - extra LoH
11 - channel smite
13 - extra LoH
15 - extra LoH
17 - extra LoH
19 - greater Mercy
LoH can be used for:
swift-action self-healing ~80 damage (11d6 (avg ~38.5) +22 FF +20 FCB)
extra smite evils
immediate dimensional anchor vs. evil outsider
grant allies smite bonus damage
conductive enchant (+10d6 damage)
channel energy (10d6)
channel smite (+10d6 damage)
spells you want are heroic defiance, litany of righteousness, more litany of righteousness, and bloodsworn retribution
alternately, of my own creation there's the paladin of RAGE:
PALADIN OF RAAAAAAGE
tiefling sacred servant (ragathiel [rage]) paladin 20
str 28 (5+2), dex 18 (2), con 20 (5), int 18 (2) , wis 16 (1-2), cha 28 (5+2)
str/str/cha/cha/wis (level), +6 all (gear), +4 str/cha (book/wish)
traits: magical knack (paladin) / ???
divine bond: +5 LoH/day
LoH: 25/day (w/ bracers of merciful knight)
rage powers:
15 - lesser celestial totem
19 - reckless abandon
feats:
1 - Fey Foundling
3 - Power Attack
5 - Channel Smite
7 - Vital Strike
9 - Greater Mercy
11 - Improved Vital Strike
13 - Furious Finish
15 - Devastating Strike
17 - Greater Vital Strike
19 - Ultimate Mercy
example weapon: +5 furious courageous conductive impact greatsword
impact greatsword (3d6) -> GVS (12d6), +7 enhancement, +15 PA, +18 STR, +6 devastating strike, +10d6 conductive (LoH), +10d6 channel smite, +40 smite, +11 destructive smite, +2d6 bane baldric
Pop furious finish to deal 246-301 damage (169 + 22d6 (77 avg, 132 max)) BEFORE BUFFS.
You can then cure your fatigue via swift action LoH (fatigue mercy) on yourself (while healing to boot) the next round.
the whole combo eats 5 LoH uses each (2 conductive, 2 channel smite, 1 to heal fatigue) though, so this is definitely a 'nova' tactic, and only against things like undead or things weak to positive energy.
aside from that you can just heal yourself or a teammate for ~100 (11d6 (avg ~38.5) +20 totem +22 FF +20 FCB) hp.
as a swift action (or an immediate action with heroic defiance if an enemy somehow slogs through all that healing).
every round for 25 rounds straight if need be, making you very tough to kill
the first one is an all-rounder with incredibly flexible in its uses of LoH/Smite/Channel, the latter is a simple 2H melee that hits things hilariously hard on the approach round (vital strike line) and then continues battling as normal from there (full attacks and such). both have hilarious self-healing and out-of-combat healing potential, while still contributing to combat.
of course you can also heal allies no biggie--though for much less (due to their lack of fey foundling/etc. on everyone but the fighter), but generally taking out enemies is preferred to just mitigating their damage.