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So, while creating my Wizard, I have become stuck on a particular question. Should I get a Familiar, or Bonded Item?
I have Spell Mastery, so I can already cast quite a few spells without prep, and Bonded Item would slightly improve on that.
If I get a Familiar, I'll probably get a Rat, Capybara, or Pig. (Rat and Capybara for Fort bonus, which is the only thing I don't have, and Pig for diplomacy, a very useful skill)
So, a few questions:
1) Would it be better to get a Bonded Item or Familiar? Why?
2) If a familiar, should I get one of the ones I have above, or would a different familiar be better?
3)Lastly, a little add on question: Can a Varisian Scarf count as an Amulet for a bonded item? If there actually is a Varisian Scarf magic item, I don't know about it, it would simply be a cosmetic item. (Either way, I'm getting a cosmetic scarf)
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I'd say a familiar would be more beneficial. They will give you a passive bonus to something you may not otherwise put resources towards.
And if your bonded item gets destroyed, you suddenly have to make a hard concentration check to actually cast spells. (I think it's 20+ the spell level you are attempting to cast).
I like the greensting scorpion for the bonus to initiative (that's what my wizard has), but I like the hedgehog, armadillo, and pig familiars too.
I think the bonded item has to occupy one of the slots where you can equip something, but I could be wrong. I'm not sure to be honest, just my guess.
Wow, I forgot about the Concentration check thing. Thanks for the advice!
Armadillo familiar? What's that from? OMG are there MORE familiars?!EDIT: Oh, just looked it up. There are TONS. Way more than I thought there were. Thanks for opening up my eyes, there.
Wizards who select a bonded object begin play with one at no cost. Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon.
Technically, if what you are talking about is a Bladed Scarf, yes it qualifies. I don't know of a Varisian Scarf.
Armadillo familiar? What's that from? OMG are there MORE familiars?!
The Animal Archive, a Player's Companion from about a year or so back had (at the time) a complete list of available familiars, including several new ones.
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I may be reading you wrong here, but you do know that Spell Mastery only allows you to prepare spells without the use of a spellbook... it doesn't allow you to cast spells without preparing them.
Prefered Spell lets you spontaneously switch out a prepared spell for your prefered spell, if that's the sort of thing you're after?
Alternatively, the Fast Study Arcane Discovery lets you fill a spell slot you left empty when you prepared your spells in as little as 1 minute.
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Wizards who select a bonded object begin play with one at no cost. Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon.Technically, if what you are talking about is a Bladed Scarf, yes it qualifies. I don't know of a Varisian Scarf.
Wait, does your bonded item count as a pre-exsisting magic item? I thought it was just a generic amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon. Interesting.
Still going with the familiar, though. Turns out there's a Skunk that gives you +2 fort. AHAAHA!!! That's awesome.|
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I may be reading you wrong here, but you do know that Spell Mastery only allows you to prepare spells without the use of a spellbook... it doesn't allow you to cast spells without preparing them.
Prefered Spell lets you spontaneously switch out a prepared spell for your prefered spell, if that's the sort of thing you're after?
Alternatively, the Fast Study Arcane Discovery lets you fill a spell slot you left empty when you prepared your spells in as little as 1 minute.
Oh... not as good. Still useful, though. I was having a very hard time trying to find a good Feat for my Divination Wizard.
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Armadillo familiar? What's that from? OMG are there MORE familiars?!The Animal Archive, a Player's Companion from about a year or so back had (at the time) a complete list of available familiars, including several new ones.
I found 'em all online. HAHA! Skunk familiar!!! :D
Wait, does your bonded item count as a pre-exsisting magic item? I thought it was just a generic amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon. Interesting.Wizards who select a bonded object begin play with one at no cost. Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon.Technically, if what you are talking about is a Bladed Scarf, yes it qualifies. I don't know of a Varisian Scarf.
Depends on what you mean by 'magic'. It qualifies as a Masterwork item for the purposes of later enchanting, but isn't itself magical from Character Creation, no.
Unless you are planning to take the Improved Familiar feat, Bonded Item is much better imo - nothing beats the ability to cast any spell out of your spell book for free.
Also, don't be worried about losing the bonded item. That will basically never happen unless your DM is trying to screw over the entire party (ie take the Fighter's weapon away, get the Cleric's holy symnol, etc) which he will do even if you don't have a bonded item.
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The skunk familiar stinks.
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Unless you are planning to take the Improved Familiar feat, Bonded Item is much better imo - nothing beats the ability to cast any spell out of your spell book for free.
Also, don't be worried about losing the bonded item. That will basically never happen unless your DM is trying to screw over the entire party (ie take the Fighter's weapon away, get the Cleric's holy symnol, etc) which he will do even if you don't have a bonded item.
I'm sorry. Now that I know that there's a skunk familiar, it won't be easy to sway me. Skunks are just some of my favorite animals. They usually get a bad rap, so their reputation gives them great power. In Native American medicine, they have reputation medicine, giving self confidence, assertion, and social power. Not to mention the very necessary Fort bonus, considering it's the only saving throw I don't have a bonus in.
I will continue to look into the bonded item, but it's a losing battle already.|
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Bonded Item is probably only worth it if you're thinking of adding extra abilities to it (which you can do as if you had the correct Crafting Feat when you hit the appropriate level) - one bonus being that any extra magic added only works for you. It also heals to full Hit Points when you next prepare spells, so it's no big deal if it is damaged.
One other plus on the side of the bonded item is that you get a free masterwork item at level 1. That means you can do things like take a Half-Elf Wizard, give him an Exotic Weapon Proficiency in, say, a heavy repeating crossbow via the Ancestral Arms alternate race trait, then give him a bonded masterwork heavy repeating crossbow (worth 700gp) for free. You need to be holding it in one hand to cast, so it may be a little akward in some situations, but you can always pay some gp later on to change your bonded item to the usual boring old ring or something once you're a little more fush with gold post-adventuring.
On the other hand, familiars are extremely useful (especially if you have ranks in UMD and the familiar can hold wands) and can lead onto the Improved Familiar Feat so you can have yourself a really impressive little buddy.
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Bonded Item is probably only worth it if you're thinking of adding extra abilities to it (which you can do as if you had the correct Crafting Feat when you hit the appropriate level) - one bonus being that any extra magic added only works for you. It also heals to full Hit Points when you next prepare spells, so it's no big deal if it is damaged.
One other plus on the side of the bonded item is that you get a free masterwork item at level 1. That means you can do things like take a Half-Elf Wizard, give him an Exotic Weapon Proficiency in, say, a heavy repeating crossbow via the Ancestral Arms alternate race trait, then give him a bonded masterwork heavy repeating crossbow (worth 700gp) for free. You need to be holding it in one hand to cast, so it may be a little akward in some situations, but you can always pay some gp later on to change your bonded item to the usual boring old ring or something once you're a little more fush with gold post-adventuring.
On the other hand, familiars are extremely useful (especially if you have ranks in UMD and the familiar can hold wands) and can lead onto the Improved Familiar Feat so you can have yourself a really impressive little buddy.
I don't know if I wanna go through all that. I would much rather have a little Animal Friend. Plus, I can get a Homonculus at level 7, which would sorta be like having a golem-style pet. Or, I can have a little clockwerk pet that can hold little magic items or potions or such. I LOVE golems (and will probably pick up the Golem Creator wizard discovery), so this works for me. Plus, for a long time, I'll have a pet SKUNK!!! WHEEEEEWWWWW!
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Azata familiar is, I'm told, the bee's knees. They can use wands, sing songs, translate ANY language, and look cute in a tiny cocktail dress.
Personally I like to have a Ring (which later becomes a Ring of Sustenance) as a bonded object, but it's part of my penchant for traveling light and keeping maintenance low. This probably makes me boring but what was my username again?
Haha! Yeah. My character is a Varisian, so a little familiar pet would make sense:
"Oh, yeah. We were just riding along a mountain path one day when one of the horses pulling our caravan just stopped. I went out, and saw a little baby skunk in the road. It had hurt it's leg, and couldn't move, but it was still keeping itself safe by raising it's tail in a warning stance. Thus, the horses refused to budge. After scooping him up in a little box, I took him in the caravan and nursed the little guy back to health. Sure, he didn't smell great at first (and by interaction, neither did I), but I got used to the smell, and later the little guy became my study partner and my familiar."Wow, that was more drawn out than I thought, but you get the point.
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Azata familiar is, I'm told, the bee's knees. They can use wands, sing songs, translate ANY language, and look cute in a tiny cocktail dress.
Personally I like to have a Ring (which later becomes a Ring of Sustenance) as a bonded object, but it's part of my penchant for traveling light and keeping maintenance low. This probably makes me boring but what was my username again?
Haha! Yeah. My character is a Varisian, so a little familiar pet would make sense:
"Oh, yeah. We were just riding along a mountain path one day when one of the horses pulling our caravan just stopped. I went out, and saw a little baby skunk in the road. It had hurt it's leg, and couldn't move, but it was still keeping itself safe by raising it's tail in a warning stance. Thus, the horses refused to budge. After scooping him up in a little box, I took him in the caravan and nursed the little guy back to health. Sure, he didn't smell great at first (and by interaction, neither did I), but I got used to the smell, and later the little guy became my study partner and my familiar."
Wow, that was more drawn out than I thought, but you get the point.
It's OK Brom, if the wizard is anything like the cavalier... we will gladly take the skunk, and leave the caster with the wagons...
:D
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I like familiars, as they're useful as scouts and also add flavour.
What I do with my familiars is take the Valet archetype for them. You give up Alertness (which only works when touching the familiar anyway), but your familiar picks up the ability to use Prestidigitation, which adds a lot of flexibility. I also give my familiars the Spell Sponge feat, which doubles duration of spells cast on them.
As to which... a cat is a good generic, and boosts your stealth if Illusion is an opposition school for you (since you won't have invisibility). Rabbits give a good initiative bonus, Ravens fly and talk... lots of different options to boost the flavour of a build.
Bonded items are interesting, but in Pathfinder Society there's no crafting so that takes away some of their utility, plus there's a significant downside if it's lost/stolen/sundered whereas if something happens to the familiar it just affects the role-playing utility.
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Azata familiar is, I'm told, the bee's knees. They can use wands, sing songs, translate ANY language, and look cute in a tiny cocktail dress.
Personally I like to have a Ring (which later becomes a Ring of Sustenance) as a bonded object, but it's part of my penchant for traveling light and keeping maintenance low. This probably makes me boring but what was my username again?
Haha! Yeah. My character is a Varisian, so a little familiar pet would make sense:
"Oh, yeah. We were just riding along a mountain path one day when one of the horses pulling our caravan just stopped. I went out, and saw a little baby skunk in the road. It had hurt it's leg, and couldn't move, but it was still keeping itself safe by raising it's tail in a warning stance. Thus, the horses refused to budge. After scooping him up in a little box, I took him in the caravan and nursed the little guy back to health. Sure, he didn't smell great at first (and by interaction, neither did I), but I got used to the smell, and later the little guy became my study partner and my familiar."
Wow, that was more drawn out than I thought, but you get the point.It's OK Brom, if the wizard is anything like the cavalier... we will gladly take the skunk, and leave the caster with the wagons...
:D
OMG that horse was so pointless in that campaign. The most important thing it did was keep that one "hot" woman warm while she was recovering. LOL.
So, while creating my Wizard, I have become stuck on a particular question. Should I get a Familiar, or Bonded Item?
I have Spell Mastery, so I can already cast quite a few spells without prep, and Bonded Item would slightly improve on that.
If I get a Familiar, I'll probably get a Rat, Capybara, or Pig. (Rat and Capybara for Fort bonus, which is the only thing I don't have, and Pig for diplomacy, a very useful skill)
So, a few questions:1) Would it be better to get a Bonded Item or Familiar? Why?
2) If a familiar, should I get one of the ones I have above, or would a different familiar be better?
3)Lastly, a little add on question: Can a Varisian Scarf count as an Amulet for a bonded item? If there actually is a Varisian Scarf magic item, I don't know about it, it would simply be a cosmetic item. (Either way, I'm getting a cosmetic scarf)
1) It is open to debate. Bonded items make you, the caster, able to cast one extra spell that you know from your spellbook without having to look it up. You just cast it, and done. There is also the Amulet of Spell Mastery which gives you an extra 6 levels of spells per day (any mix of spells level 1 - 6 whose total adds up to 6) with the the additional spell on top of that for being a bonded item. Bonded items are extremely powerful, but what is their true strength is that you are able to craft them as a magical item without having the feat required. In other Words, if you choose a (quarter)Staff and get to level 11 you can make a staff without Craft Staff. You could do this with Wands if you like, but you'll really want to pick up Staff-Like Wand if you do.
Basically, it is a give and take.
2) I am a fan of the Crow. It can speak and understand 1 language you designate when taken (usually common). You can mix this with the Infiltrator familiar archetype to create a master spy that few people would think twice about. If you go Familiar then Improved Familiar should be a must. If you are a crafter then Valet is a must.
3) If you are just talking about a normal Scarf, then yes, literally any item you carry can be your bonded item. Your spectacles would work, as would shoes, weapons, a false tooth, or whatever. Just remember what I stated about being able to enchant said item without the feat (the strong point of bonded items, honestly.)
3) If you are just talking about a normal Scarf, then yes, literally any item you carry can be your bonded item. Your spectacles would work, as would shoes, weapons, a false tooth, or whatever. Just remember what I stated about being able to enchant said item without the feat (the strong point of bonded items, honestly.)
(bolding mine)
I... don't think it works that way.
Wizards who select a bonded object begin play with one at no cost. Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon.
So spectacles, shoes or a false tooth are right out. A scarf could pass on two possible fronts, if it takes the amulet/neck slot, or if it is a weapon (cf bladed scarf).
Also note:
The bonded object cannot be used to cast spells from the wizard's opposition schools
Presumably this would mean that an opposition school spell would require the hefty concentration check (20+lvl) in addition to taking two spell slots for it.
So, setting aside any risk of losing the bonded object through theft or sundering or whatever, the main disadvantages are losing a body slot for the item (unless it's a weapon) and additional distress for casting spells from your prohibited school.
On balance, I'd probably rather have a familiar, if only because said familiar can act on its own and give me (in a sense) more actions per turn. But I wouldn't scoff at the additional spellcasting power of a bonded item.
Arcane bonded object ring and necklace are very safe objects to have. They are of masterwork quality (always) and despite you adding magical properties to them, they appear (through detect magic / arcane sight / identify / etc.) and essentially are non-magical to everyone else.
ABO helps save a feat slot for something else: since you get craft wonderous items (for the amulet only) or forge ring (for the ring only).
ABO's allow you to cast any spell from your spellbook that you are capable of normally casting (1/day).
... Stuff i agree with...
Also note:
The bonded object cannot be used to cast spells from the wizard's opposition schoolsPresumably this would mean that an opposition school spell would require the hefty concentration check (20+lvl) in addition to taking two spell slots for it.
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I Think this would have been mentioned if it was the case.
Simple logic: it says you can't use it, and also specifies what happens when you don't use it, for example if it's a weapon but you're not wielding it. seems pretty clear.
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... and despite you adding magical properties to them, they appear (through detect magic / arcane sight / identify / etc.) and essentially are non-magical to everyone else...
Not so: FAQ
... Presumably this would mean that an opposition school spell would require the hefty concentration check (20+lvl) in addition to taking two spell slots for it...
Nope: the line you quoted is from the paragraph explaining that you can use a bonded object to cast one 'free' spell per day from any listed in your spellbook - that's the only time you cast a spell from a bonded object (the rest of the time you're just casting the spell, but it's harder without the bonded object). So you can't use the bonded object's special once-per-day free-from-spellbook spell casting on a spell from your oposition school (mostly, I imagine, as that'd be a sneaky way to bypass the whole 'needs two spell slots' rule), but having a bonded object doesn't disrupt your ability to cast opposition school spells any more than usual.
If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level. If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly. (...) The bonded object cannot be used to cast spells from the wizard's opposition schools
The second part says you can't use it with opposition school spells, and the first parts says what happen when you don't use it. Meaning you'd need to make the concentration check in order to cast an opposition school spell.
Someone pointed out that you're probably not going to want to cast opposition school spells anyway. But if you did, you would both take two slots *and* have to make the special concentration check if you were a bonded item-using wizard.
I agree that you also couldn't cast an opposition school spell as the free spell cast with the bonded oject.
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Wheldrake, what you've done there is quote out of context (where you put a '...' you're skipping an important paragraph break). So, the relevant bit is actually...
Wizards who select a bonded object begin play with one at no cost. Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon. These objects are always masterwork quality. Weapons acquired at 1st level are not made of any special material. If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be held in one hand. If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level. If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly.
A bonded object can be used once per day to cast any one spell that the wizard has in his spellbook and is capable of casting, even if the spell is not prepared. This spell is treated like any other spell cast by the wizard, including casting time, duration, and other effects dependent on the wizard's level. This spell cannot be modified by metamagic feats or other abilities. The bonded object cannot be used to cast spells from the wizard's opposition schools (see arcane school).
The first paragraph states what happens when your bonded object isn't worn or held in hand when you cast a spell. The second paragraph states you can use the object to cast a spell once per day, but that the spell the object casts can't be from your opposition school. Two different paragraphs talking about two different aspects of bonded objects.
If you're asking from a pure power perspective, then familiar > Improved Familiar > Wands galore. Action economy is the highest principle.
OK, Prof, I guess I can see your interpretation. I was thinking that the bonded-object-using wizards casts all his spells using the bonded object, so that final sentence applies to all spells he casts. It's not clear that this isn't the case, wouldn't you agree?
I'd probably play a wiz with a bonded object, if only to try out something new, but I'm still convinced the familiar is a more powerful option over the medium or long term. As I'm used to DD3.5, a wiz couldn't cast opposition school spells at all, so all of this is new to me.
Removed a post that commmented on a solved isssue.
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I think that it might be better to just get a wand or staff later on. I've already made the sheet for my skunk (Heliotrope- named for a very sweet smelling flower), but I can always get a bonded item. I'm still really confused on how the bonded items and Craft (whatever) feats work, but I'll look into it and make a more educated decision.
As opposed to: "I get a skunk! AAAAHAHAHAHAAHAAAAA!!!!"
I think that it might be better to just get a wand or staff later on.
I think you might be missing the idea that if you have an Improved Familiar, it can use a wand AND you can cast a spell every round. 2 actions. Increasing effective actions is the most universal thing in building effective characters, whether it is Improved Familiars, or Pounce barbarians, or Quicken Spell Like Ability or Summoning Monsters or having powerful animal companions or just the Quicken Spell feat. It's the essence of why Leadership is a ridiculous feat.
1) Could I have a wand to cast Harrow which is a 3rd level spell?
Yes, but it would be expensive to buy: 11,250gp.
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I think that it might be better to just get a wand or staff later on.I think you might be missing the idea that if you have an Improved Familiar, it can use a wand AND you can cast a spell every round. 2 actions. Increasing effective actions is the most universal thing in building effective characters, whether it is Improved Familiars, or Pounce barbarians, or Quicken Spell Like Ability or Summoning Monsters or having powerful animal companions. It's the essence of why Leadership is a ridiculous feat.
Oh snap. Sticking with my familiar.
Homonculus here I come!
Well, would it be free if I start with it as a bonded item?Yes, but it would be expensive to buy: 11,250gp.
1) Could I have a wand to cast Harrow which is a 3rd level spell?
Nope.
Nope.Well, would it be free if I start with it as a bonded item?Yes, but it would be expensive to buy: 11,250gp.
1) Could I have a wand to cast Harrow which is a 3rd level spell?
To expand on that 'nope', it would start as a masterwork stick with no spells. Once you are high enough level to qualify for the Craft wand feat, ie 5th level, you could then turn your stick into a magic wand as if you had that feat, following all the normal rules for crafting a wand except for not needing that feat.
To expand on that 'nope', it would start as a masterwork stick with no spells. Once you are high enough level to qualify for the Craft wand feat, ie 5th level, you could then turn your stick into a magic wand as if you had that feat, following all the normal rules for crafting a wand except for not needing that feat.
Does that work in PFS, though, with their general rules against crafting? The OP's character is for PFS.
To expand on that 'nope', it would start as a masterwork stick with no spells. Once you are high enough level to qualify for the Craft wand feat, ie 5th level, you could then turn your stick into a magic wand as if you had that feat, following all the normal rules for crafting a wand except for not needing that feat.Does that work in PFS, though, with their general rules against crafting? The OP's character is for PFS.
No idea, I've never read the PFS rules. But if you can't enchant your bonded object, the argument for taking a familiar is pretty overwhelming.
Something amazing to consider, regarding the Pig Familiar:
If you do decide to go with the pig, I would also grab one of the traits that lets you use intelligence for diplomacy (Clever Wordplay or Student of Philosophy). In combination, your character would be very Diplomatic indeed.
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Something amazing to consider, regarding the Pig Familiar:
If you do decide to go with the pig, I would also grab one of the traits that lets you use intelligence for diplomacy (Clever Wordplay or Student of Philosophy). In combination, your character would be very Diplomatic indeed.
Yes, or a Thrush. They can speak, too.
Haha. I always thought the pig familiar was sorta like the teacup pig in How I Met Your Mother."Oy! No passage beyond this point."
"Why?"
"None yo' business! Move along!"
"Please, we need to get past."
"NO!"
"Say that to my teacup pig..."
"Awww... Okay... Teacup Pig- you can't pass through this gate...
Right now. Okay now you can."
"Thanks, Mr. Guard."