Thought Experiment: Keep Headjumping


Pathfinder Online


I know, I know—big surprise that it's me making this thread, considering my behavior in the Demo.

But seriously. Headjumping is kind of funny, and it'll be a shame when we have to remove it. Soooo...what if we just didn't? I know we will, but what if we won't?

Don't post just to say how unlikely this is. As the title states, it's a thought experiment. So get out your umbrella, retrieve your book of Murphy's Laws, and let's ask ourselves the age-old question:

What could possibly go wrong?

    1. Archers will abuse it to "safespot" monsters and PCs!
    True. This will also be done by archers at the tops of cliffs and towers, and that's a good thing. On the other side of things, the targeted PCs (and monsters, when better AI is added) can simply kill those lower down, use ranged attacks, or use knockback/knockdown/ effects to mess things up. Plus, the whole formation is rendered nigh-immobile.

    2. Players will use it to reach inaccessible locations!
    Like? If they use it to climb over walls in sieges, more power to them—it's using a lot of players, so it's not all that efficient, but it is a kind of clever tactic and there's no point in worrying so much about it. Again, easy to disrupt.

    3. It looks f@&#ing stupid.
    nou

    4. noU
    noU

    5. noU
    noUUUU okay I ran out of concerns after the third one.

Feel free to post with your own words of concern/blind adoration for my brilliant plan.

Goblin Squad Member

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I just pictured a really high people-stack where the bottom person jumps, followed by the person on top of him and so on and so on, each jump further accelerating the people on top like a multistage space rocket until the person on top jumps with such force that he's sent out into orbit.


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"For your most heinous crimes, Wurner, you are sentenced to exile..."
*Assorted gasps!*
"...BY HEADJUMP LAUNCH!"
*Assorted screams; a woman faints*


No response? Good. I win.

Goblin Squad Member

The problem I see is people leaping off onto structures and items that only look like they have a ceiling, roof or top and falling through into places they shouldn't, probably getting stuck but maybe using it as an exploit to access otherwise difficult/impossible things. It would result in similar issues as Levitate or Fly if the game isn't built to support those actions. It's similar to Point 2 on KC's list but the main worry is getting stuck or falling through the world.

Goblin Squad Member

Hat dancing will result in rather more acrobatic sieges than I was envisioning.

Goblin Squad Member

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My issue with it is that it's just...kinda dumb, really. 6+ people standing on each others' heads? Cmon. Anything more than 2 people is looking pretty silly

Scarab Sages Goblinworks Executive Founder

Add fall damage and you will see people doing it a lot less. :P

Maybe require stregth checks from people on the bottom.

Goblin Squad Member

Or just make the platform on top of our heads smaller, such that we can't use each other as "stairs." In this example, one person could jump onto another, but a third person would not be able to simultaneously stand atop the bottom person, and therefore couldn't jump up to stand atop the 2nd person.

Goblin Squad Member

The strength checks could be humorous.

Then we would see mobile human pyramids approaching the parapets.

Arm the defenders with bowling balls.

Someone must invent the Galilean siege defense weapon made from inclined planes...

Scarab Sages Goblinworks Executive Founder

Kitsune Aou wrote:
Or just make the platform on top of our heads smaller, such that we can't use each other as "stairs." In this example, one person could jump onto another, but a third person would not be able to simultaneously stand atop the bottom person, and therefore couldn't jump up to stand atop the 2nd person.

You could still get people up higher than two people, you would just need to basically make pyramid structures. IE 2 people up, one person behind them to allow the 4th person to get up onto the other two. I think this would be a more viable approach while still allowing it to exist in the game.

Being wrote:

The strength checks could be humorous.

Then we would see mobile human pyramids approaching the parapets.

Arm the defenders with bowling balls.

Someone must invent the Galilean siege defense weapon made from inclined planes...

This made me LOL.

Scarab Sages

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Dam Being... I´m just imagining dozens of Dwarven Defenders carrying Clerics Humans and on top of those a cherry, I mean, a Elf Mage making rain Magic Missles and Fire Balls.

The. Best. Battle. Formation. Ever.

Goblin Squad Member

Everything in this thread made me laugh hahaha
Thanks!


I'm envisioning a huge stack of invading vikings veering around, trying to reach the walls of the castle, going back and forth in their efforts not to fall over...

Ravenlute wrote:

The problem I see is people leaping off onto structures and items that only look like they have a ceiling, roof or top and falling through into places they shouldn't, probably getting stuck but maybe using it as an exploit to access otherwise difficult/impossible things. It would result in similar issues as Levitate or Fly if the game isn't built to support those actions. It's similar to Point 2 on KC's list but the main worry is getting stuck or falling through the world.

Ah, but you can always self-target and self-murder if they get stuck. And serves you right for being such a doofus. ;D

As for getting access to difficult/impossible things...again, like what? I can't think of anything that can't be blocked with invisible walls, much less anything that would give the jumper an advantage.

Scarab Sages

Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I'm envisioning a huge stack of invading vikings veering around, trying to reach the walls of the castle, going back and forth in their efforts not to fall over...

I only see this!

EDIT: Now... I´m a bit scared of those Lawful-Evil friends of mine that talked to be Minionmancer...


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It reminds me of the scene in Muppet Christmas Carol where the rats are trying to close up shop.

Goblin Squad Member

Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I can't think of anything that can't be blocked with invisible walls, much less anything that would give the jumper an advantage.

That's assuming there are invisible walls. If it's not an action the devs anticipate there may be no such walls.

This could be used to enter buildings gaining access to the interior and what is placed there. It could be used to fall through terrain to gain entry into a dungeon location that would otherwise require a key or some other mechanism if it's even ready to be accessed at all. It could allow someone to get stuck in a wall, tree or other terrain that would permit them to use ranged attacks against other players while not being able to be targeted back.

Goblin Squad Member

Ravenlute wrote:
It could allow someone to get stuck in a wall, tree or other terrain that would permit them to use ranged attacks against other players while not being able to be targeted back.

This is why we have banhammers ;)

Goblin Squad Member

In a game where they are going to all the trouble to moderate out any character and company names that don't fit the setting I would hope human towers don't become a common tactic.


Psh, they can be seen as representative of siege towers and human ladders! Totally happened in real life. Only realistic thing to do is allow them, really. What, do you just hate reality? Don't make me call the Reality Police from Goosebumps.

Goblin Squad Member

I just hope that KC is a "functional" crack user.

Goblin Squad Member

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T7V Avari wrote:
I just hope that KC is a "functional" crack user.

I met KC at PaizoCon and actually got to spend a little time chatting with him. He seems very young and very intelligent, with a bit of oddness thrown in. I fumbled it a bit when I tried to say this to him directly, but it was very interesting to me that he was the one person I met who didn't seem at all incongruous with his avatar/persona on these forums. I very much enjoyed meeting and talking to him, and hope I didn't offend him - I really didn't mean he looked like his avatar. :)


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Whatchu talkin' about, Nihimon?

Butyeah, no actual offense taken—it was just fun giving you a hard time about it. Actually, I was flattered to hear that I present myself somewhat accurately.

Really was great meeting y'all. :)

Goblin Squad Member

Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Whatchu talkin' about, Nihimon?

Truly this is the prototypical beauty.


I didn't get into Early Enrollment just for my looks...but they sure did help.

Wink.

Goblin Squad Member

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Call Lightning would be rather epic against it.

Goblin Squad Member

PFO needs more Disgaea influence, like Tower Attacks To the Moon!

Goblin Squad Member

KotC ChaiGuy wrote:
PFO needs more Disgaea influence, like Tower Attacks To the Moon!

Oh yeah!

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
T7V Avari wrote:
I just hope that KC is a "functional" crack user.
I met KC at PaizoCon and actually got to spend a little time chatting with him. He seems very young and very intelligent, with a bit of oddness thrown in. I fumbled it a bit when I tried to say this to him directly, but it was very interesting to me that he was the one person I met who didn't seem at all incongruous with his avatar/persona on these forums. I very much enjoyed meeting and talking to him, and hope I didn't offend him - I really didn't mean he looked like his avatar. :)

Yes, KC did seem to bear a resemblance to the young man at PaizoCon. It was pleasant to talk with him, though I did not realize it was he until the Pathfinder Onlne board.

And neither you nor I look like our respective avatars. Several strangers in Seattle commented that I looked like the John Hammond character from Jurassic Park (actor Richard Attenborough). Actually I have a much bigger mustache than that.

DeciusBrutus was also a surprise.

Goblin Squad Member

Please, oh please: someone give us some pictures.


I will say, Lam, your beard was a lot more badass than Hammond's. ;)

Goblin Squad Member

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I really want to see human pyrimids xD

I just had an image in my head of a pyramid of gnome brigands declaring stand and deliver on an approaching caravan by blocking the road.


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You think you can pass by, merchants? You have no idea what we're capable of. The gnomes are a powerful race! Do not trifle with the—

Goblin Squad Member

Now that I have seen it in action, it was funny the first couple times. After that, not so much :)

Goblin Squad Member

Lam wrote:
Nihimon wrote:
...
... neither you nor I look like our respective avatars.

I'm not sure that's as true for you, Lam. That was some very impressive facial hair :)

Lam wrote:
DeciusBrutus was also a surprise.

Yeah, he really was. I had even seen a picture of him on Facebook, but it didn't prepare me for the shock. Who would have thought he had long hair?

Jazzlvraz wrote:
Please, oh please: someone give us some pictures.

I'm a terrible tourist; I didn't get a single picture at PaizoCon.

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