I know, I know—big surprise that it's me making this thread, considering my behavior in the Demo.
But seriously. Headjumping is kind of funny, and it'll be a shame when we have to remove it. Soooo...what if we just didn't? I know we will, but what if we won't?
Don't post just to say how unlikely this is. As the title states, it's a thought experiment. So get out your umbrella, retrieve your book of Murphy's Laws, and let's ask ourselves the age-old question:
- 1. Archers will abuse it to "safespot" monsters and PCs!
True. This will also be done by archers at the tops of cliffs and towers, and that's a good thing. On the other side of things, the targeted PCs (and monsters, when better AI is added) can simply kill those lower down, use ranged attacks, or use knockback/knockdown/ effects to mess things up. Plus, the whole formation is rendered nigh-immobile.
- 2. Players will use it to reach inaccessible locations!
Like? If they use it to climb over walls in sieges, more power to them—it's using a lot of players, so it's not all that efficient, but it is a kind of clever tactic and there's no point in worrying so much about it. Again, easy to disrupt.
- 3. It looks f~~+ing stupid.
nou
- 4. noU
noU
- 5. no
no okay I ran out of concerns after the third one.
Feel free to post with your own words of concern/blind adoration for my brilliant plan.
Goblin Squad Member
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I just pictured a really high people-stack where the bottom person jumps, followed by the person on top of him and so on and so on, each jump further accelerating the people on top like a multistage space rocket until the person on top jumps with such force that he's sent out into orbit.
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"For your most heinous crimes, Wurner, you are sentenced to "
*Assorted gasps!*
""
*Assorted screams; a woman faints*
No response? Good. I win.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The problem I see is people leaping off onto structures and items that only look like they have a ceiling, roof or top and falling through into places they shouldn't, probably getting stuck but maybe using it as an exploit to access otherwise difficult/impossible things. It would result in similar issues as Levitate or Fly if the game isn't built to support those actions. It's similar to Point 2 on KC's list but the main worry is getting stuck or falling through the world.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Or just make the platform on top of our heads smaller, such that we can't use each other as "stairs." In this example, one person could jump onto another, but a third person would not be able to simultaneously stand atop the bottom person, and therefore couldn't jump up to stand atop the 2nd person.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Or just make the platform on top of our heads smaller, such that we can't use each other as "stairs." In this example, one person could jump onto another, but a third person would not be able to simultaneously stand atop the bottom person, and therefore couldn't jump up to stand atop the 2nd person.
You could still get people up higher than two people, you would just need to basically make pyramid structures. IE 2 people up, one person behind them to allow the 4th person to get up onto the other two. I think this would be a more viable approach while still allowing it to exist in the game.
The strength checks could be humorous.
Then we would see mobile human pyramids approaching the parapets.
Arm the defenders with bowling balls.
Someone must invent the Galilean siege defense weapon made from inclined planes...
This made me LOL.
I'm envisioning a huge stack of invading vikings veering around, trying to reach the walls of the castle, going back and forth in their efforts not to fall over...
The problem I see is people leaping off onto structures and items that only look like they have a ceiling, roof or top and falling through into places they shouldn't, probably getting stuck but maybe using it as an exploit to access otherwise difficult/impossible things. It would result in similar issues as Levitate or Fly if the game isn't built to support those actions. It's similar to Point 2 on KC's list but the main worry is getting stuck or falling through the world.
Ah, but you can always self-target and self-murder if they get stuck. And serves you right for being such a doofus. ;D
As for getting access to difficult/impossible things...again, like what? I can't think of anything that can't be blocked with invisible walls, much less anything that would give the jumper an advantage.
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I'm envisioning a huge stack of invading vikings veering around, trying to reach the walls of the castle, going back and forth in their efforts not to fall over...
I only see this!
EDIT: Now... I´m a bit scared of those Lawful-Evil friends of mine that talked to be Minionmancer...
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It reminds me of the scene in Muppet Christmas Carol where the rats are trying to close up shop.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I can't think of anything that can't be blocked with invisible walls, much less anything that would give the jumper an advantage.
That's assuming there are invisible walls. If it's not an action the devs anticipate there may be no such walls.
This could be used to enter buildings gaining access to the interior and what is placed there. It could be used to fall through terrain to gain entry into a dungeon location that would otherwise require a key or some other mechanism if it's even ready to be accessed at all. It could allow someone to get stuck in a wall, tree or other terrain that would permit them to use ranged attacks against other players while not being able to be targeted back.
Psh, they can be seen as representative of siege towers and human ladders! Totally happened in real life. Only realistic thing to do is allow them, really. What, do you just hate reality? Don't make me call the Reality Police from Goosebumps.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I just hope that KC is a "functional" crack user.
I met KC at PaizoCon and actually got to spend a little time chatting with him. He seems very young and very intelligent, with a bit of oddness thrown in. I fumbled it a bit when I tried to say this to him directly, but it was very interesting to me that he was the one person I met who didn't seem at all incongruous with his avatar/persona on these forums. I very much enjoyed meeting and talking to him, and hope I didn't offend him - I really didn't mean he looked like his avatar. :)
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Whatchu talkin' about, Nihimon?
Butyeah, no actual offense taken—it was just fun giving you a hard time about it. Actually, I was flattered to hear that I present myself somewhat accurately.
Really was great meeting y'all. :)
I didn't get into Early Enrollment just for my looks...but they sure did help.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I just hope that KC is a "functional" crack user.I met KC at PaizoCon and actually got to spend a little time chatting with him. He seems very young and very intelligent, with a bit of oddness thrown in. I fumbled it a bit when I tried to say this to him directly, but it was very interesting to me that he was the one person I met who didn't seem at all incongruous with his avatar/persona on these forums. I very much enjoyed meeting and talking to him, and hope I didn't offend him - I really didn't mean he looked like his avatar. :)
Yes, KC did seem to bear a resemblance to the young man at PaizoCon. It was pleasant to talk with him, though I did not realize it was he until the Pathfinder Onlne board.
And neither you nor I look like our respective avatars. Several strangers in Seattle commented that I looked like the John Hammond character from Jurassic Park (actor Richard Attenborough). Actually I have a much bigger mustache than that.DeciusBrutus was also a surprise.
I will say, Lam, your beard was a lot more badass than Hammond's. ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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...... neither you nor I look like our respective avatars.
I'm not sure that's as true for you, Lam. That was some very impressive facial hair :)
DeciusBrutus was also a surprise.
Yeah, he really was. I had even seen a picture of him on Facebook, but it didn't prepare me for the shock. Who would have thought he had long hair?
Please, oh please: someone give us some pictures.
I'm a terrible tourist; I didn't get a single picture at PaizoCon.