Martial Wildshaper - Shaping Focus and multiclassing

[KutuluKultist]

Hi,

I'm looking to build a wildshape focused, mainly martial character. The obvious way to go is Druid & the Shaping Focus feat, taking up to 4 levels of non-druid, probably full bab classes to lose some spell casting and gain some martiality ;).

The level 5 feat will be Shaping Focus, level 7 almost unavoidably natural spell and around 13th I'd want powerful shape.

The obvious question is, which classes and when to take them?

1-2 levels of Barbarian seem like a good choice. Taking Barbarian as my first level will also give me a strong melee character right when that kind of character is king.

3 levels of the Savage Barbarian archetype will give +1 to all saves and +1 dodge bonus to AC while not wearing armor, e.g. while wildshaped.

4 levels of barbarian brings a second rage power and makes some rage powers a little better. Not very attractive, given that rage powers tend to rely a lot of class level.

2 levels of lore warden fighter give 3 bonus feats, and minimizes skill point loss

3 levels of Lore Warden Fighter gives +2 to combat maneuvers and combat maneuvers are nice for wildshapers.

1 level of unarmed fighter gives Improved Unarmed Strike and a style feat (Dragon Style, most likely). This opens up Dragon Ferocity, but to use this I'd need Weapon Focus and Feral Combat Training and even it works for only one type of natural attack. That's 5 feats on a feat starved build. Not a good option.

1 level of Ranger opens up the Shapeshifting Hunter Feat, which is nice and all, but only fully effective with 4 levels of ranger in the build and that seems excessive. Favored enemy is also highly campaign dependent and I don't like the guesswork

2 levels of Ranger gives a combat style feat, most likely power attack or rending claws.

1-2 levels of Monk, apart from being great for my saves, would give me 1-2 bonus feats, including improved grapple, which I'd like anyway. Make it Tetori Monk and I also get +1 CMB to grapple, though Stunning Pin is not a feat I want, so I'd be only one level of monk then. Also costs me a point of BAB, which is not that bad once Wildshape is my standard combat strategy. Will finally give me WIS to AC when unarmored.

What else is there? What am I missing? Do you agree or disagree with my assessments?

[Captain Zoom]

Hi, your concepts are creative and interesting, but I do disagree with your basic premise that you even need to multi-class. I've played Druids that are focused on Melee Combat using Wildshape and I haven't found it necessary to multi-class. When I do multi-class, I just take one level of Ranger and the Shapeshifting Hunter feat. I see no reason to take 4 levels of Ranger.

I don't have time to research some of your ideas, but you might want to double-check the Savage Barbarian build. I think somewhere it was decided that a Druid who is wearing armor and who Wildshapes is still considered to be wearing armor (but I'm not really sure as I'm going by memory). In any case, I've found Wild Armor very important to my Druid Wildshape Melee Combat builds as the lack of armor makes you too easy to hit, so you really need Wild Armor. So it may be a moot point.

A level or two in Barbarian is nice from a roleplaying or concept standpoint, especially for something like a Bear Shaman. I like the ability to Rage. However, it will significantly hurt your spellcasting and Wildshaping. From an optimization standpoint, I wouldn't do it.

In the end, everything is a trade-off. I personally don't like the trade-off in spellcasting and Wildshaping ability from Multi-classing a Druid, especially when the Druid is a Wildshaping Melee Combatant. That doesn't make me right, just my preference.

In the end, play something you find interesting and have fun!

[Sleet Storm]

Worldwalker Druid4/Barb1/Ranger rest is the way to go if you ask me.Druid Ranger with Shaping Focus and Shapeshifting hunter has the best synergy as you advance Wildshape, Favoured Enemy and Favoured terrain at full level, you can even have a full level animal companion with Boon Companion.

I would go pure Ranger Druid myself but a Barbarian dip gives you an immense boost in DPR. With Rage and a Furious AmoMF you are looking at +3 to hit and damage for all attacks just from one level of Barb.The main problem I see is feats, You need Shaping Focus obviously, you also need Shapeshifting Hunter or you will always be stuck with two uses of Wildshape/per Day.That would seriously limit the full potential of wildshape(no changing your shape from combat oriented Allosaurus to a stealthy diminuitive animal for snaking around etc.).With Barbarian Rage you would also need Extra Rage at least once and then there is Boon companion,Power Attack and Lunge.Thats 6 feats that are absolute must haves already although you could forgo Boon companion and pick the Growth subdomain to give you some melee Punch before Wildshape becomes an option.

I wouldn't use monk the AC bonus is not worth it, since you won't have very good wisdom. How much will you be able to afford? 14 wis? Thats just a +2 and it doesn't stack with wild armor wich can give you a much better AC.

Pure Ranger/Druid is very fun though.

[KutuluKultist]

I'm aware that pure druid would be more powerful, due to spell casting if nothing else, but I purposefully don't want full casting. Neither do I want an animal companion, but I do want full wildshape.

Regarding Feats: I will need Power Attack, Natural Spell and Shaping Focus. Power Attack can wait a bit, but the available slots, not counting bonus slots, are 3rd and then 9th, if I don't take it at first. In my experience, it is not something I will use before level 5 or 6, but 9 seems rather late.

Extra Rage at least once also seems mandatory if going Barbarian.

Maybe:

1st: Extra Rage
3rd: Power Attack
5th: Shaping Focus
7th: Natural Spell
9th: Shapeshifting Hunter
11th: ? Extra Rage ?
13th: Powerful Shape

Classes: Barb 1, Druid 1-4, Barb 2, Ran 1-2, Dru 5-x

[Pulpo_Rabido]

Well, are you sure you need to cast spells at all?

If you want to do a super combat wild-shape dude you don't need all the levels of druid. I mean, beast shape III is as good as beast shape ever gets for druids, and you can get that at 8th level.

With Shaping focus at lvl 5 the only reason you have for going back to druid is if you want to wild shape into elementals and plants. But I don't think you need to. Don't forget, wild shape lasts for hours per level. So at 4 lvls and four levels of anything else you're already up to 24 hours of wild shape. Since you'll likely be sleeping for 8 hours of the day you could even spend half your waking hours as a celestial version of your chosen form. For the rest of the party you might as well exist as Dire Tiger. Now if you really want lvl 3 spells you could stick in Druid until lvl 6 as a lion shaman and gain use of beast shape 3 without needing your shaping focus feat. This would still give you 12 hours a day of what I assume would be dire tiger form (pounce and rake). The only reason I would suggest taking six levels of druid is so that you can take wild speech, allowing you to talk with the rest of the party in wild shape form. Which I imagine the party will appreciate.

I would strongly consider level dipping monk for the wis to AC and all the free feats. If you know of an item that gives wis to AC you could probably skip the monk. So if you were starting at 8 or later I would say to take your level's like this for the best feats.

Monk 1/Lorewarden 1/Lion Shaman 6/Lore Warden 5/Whatever

1- Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist
2- Power Attack
3- Dragon Style
5- Weapon Focus (claw) [your totem transformation gives you access to natural attacks]
7- Natural Spell
9- Feral Combat Training, Dragon Ferocity, Combat Expertise
10-Greater Grapple
11-Wild Speech
12-Weapon Specialization (claw)

At that point anything's a good option. Your CMB is ridiculous. You're damage is . . . good. If you're sticking with core classes dwarf is probably your best bet?

15 point buy lvl 12
Str 16 Int 10
Dex 12 Wis 16
Con 16 Cha 8

Wild Shape on a Dire Tiger on a 15 point buy (no magic items). Lvl 12
Cool stuff you'll have as a dire tiger- Scent, Speed 40, pounce, rake, and a grab on all your attacks.

2 Claws +16 (2d4+10 plus grab) Bite +15 (2d6+6/crit 19-20 plus grab)
or power attack at -3 to hit +6 to damage. Sadly you can't make rake attacks the turn you grapple. Keep in mind greater grapple lets you make a grapple check twice in a turn. Meaning four claw attacks on any target you have grappled. Also, whenever you crit with a claw your opponent is shaken for 1d4+str mod rounds, no save.

And your CMB to grapple is +26.

[James Risner]

KutuluKultist wrote:

wildshape focused, mainly martial character.

I've built several similar characters.

Sticky is a Wis 7 Druid with Wild Shape:
Druid 5/Weapon Master Fighter 1/Master of Many Styles Monk 1/Ranger 2
Animal Companion of Ape (so it can be my pack mule)
Dragon Style (Monk 1)
Ranger Natural Weapon Combat Style = Improved Natural Attack
Shaping Focus
Power Attack
Vital Strike
Improved Overrun/Greater Overrun/Elephant Stomp/Charge Through (don't recommend as they have high table variance)

Fester can cast Strong Jaw:
Cave Druid 7/Fighter 1/Flowing Monk 1/Ranger 2
Wolf Domain Improved Trip
Vital Strike from Fighter 1
Combat Reflexes from Monk 1
Ranger Natural Weapon Combat Style = Improved Natural Attack
Feral Combat Training Slam
Natural Spell
Shaping Focus
Weapon Focus Slam
Panther Style/Claw/Parry (run around provoking and killing them before they take their AoO)

[Atarlost]

Wildshape maxes out at level 12 so you don't want more than 8 druid levels and 4 (wildshape as 8) gets you to huge animals, which are where both the pouncing and vital striking druid max out. Druid's vestments are in a noncritical slot and give you more switches, but you have 24 hour wildshape without it at 8 if you don't ever switch forms prematurely.

I'd suggest either lore warden fighter or invulnerable rager urban barbarian. And human. Pounce/Rake forms always have grab on the bite, which in combination with the lore warden's maneuver bonus and the grapple feats lets you grapple quite effectively. There's a belt that can get you a constrict and dragon style/ferocity can let you leverage your strength. Use martial versatility on feral combat training to apply it to any natural attacks. That lets you also apply things like weapon specialization on unarmed strike to natural attacks. You'll never run out of feats you can use so I recommend only 4 druid levels and no natural spell for this build. This means you can't get natural speech either, but you should be able to create a code with a point of linguistics per distinct form (allosaurus, tiger/panther for when smaller size is needed, and vulture for flying are probably adequate).

Going the other route barbarians will give you stats. A huge air elemental with a polearm will get a lot of AoOs (elementals can take humanoid form and use weapons and their natural attacks are not limb associated as proven by the applicability of the zombie template to creatures without limbs). The really good rage powers are going to come very late, but you can get spell sunder while it's still useful.

[prototype00]

James Risner wrote:

Fester can cast Strong Jaw:
Cave Druid 7/Fighter 1/Flowing Monk 1/Ranger 2
Wolf Domain Improved Trip
Vital Strike from Fighter 1
Combat Reflexes from Monk 1
Ranger Natural Weapon Combat Style = Improved Natural Attack
Feral Combat Training Slam
Natural Spell
Shaping Focus
Weapon Focus Slam
Panther Style/Claw/Parry (run around provoking and killing them before they take their AoO)

Is Fester a Conqueror Ooze? :)

Prototype00

[James Risner]

prototype00 wrote:

Is Fester a Conqueror Ooze? :)

Prototype00

Specific details of Fester are a secret until after GenCon 2014's Jolly Doc Team PVP.

[James Risner]

I will add this, I created the shell of this build Jan 2012.