or only 3 Level dip of inquisitor rest of Zen archer you get all Flurry aditonal attack, all Feat for archery, some extra feats and dwarf is a good race for this build
Mechanically, Zen Archer isn't worth that much at level 1 - you can't use manyshot or rapid shot with flurry, so it's eventually strictly weaker than normal archery. You also don't get Point-Blank Master, so you can't effectively fight if attacked. If taking one level of Inquisitor for the Inquisition, you could instead go Cleric and take an Inquisition plus a Domain as well.
You could also go bow Sohei with one level of Cleric or Inquisitor instead, and create a switch-hitter with both longbow and monk sword flurry, wearing mithral medium armor. Sohei can use Manyshot and Rapid Shot with flurry and gets Weapon Training (which becomes +3 with Gloves of Dueling). With a racial bonus making STR and DEX at least 16 each, it would be solid in melee and very damaging with archery.
Anyhow, you can use Dual Talent Human to get a bonus to two stats, or use Garuda Blooded Aasimar to add to both DEX and WIS while getting Aasimar bonuses.
I like Zen Archer 1/ Inquisitor X... (Option 2)
You never use WIS to Ranged, but honestly that's a blessing in disguise, because switching your attack stat about 3 levels in is horrible to deal with, to the point that even a pure Zen Archer build might just decide to focus on DEX and ignore their ability for WIS to Ranged... although it's always a nice back-up if you take DEX damage/drain.
(WIS to Ranged only really pays off if you dump DEX/ have at zero modifier in order to max WIS and STR, but then your Ranged absolutely sucks for first few levels even while you're putting all Feats/Class Abilities into that. To be honest, if you are aiming for WIS to Ranged as Zen Archer/combo, and want to minmax WIS/STR and ignore DEX, you are better off focusing on melee during low levels, even if you are no better at it than a Cleric without Melee Feats... )
With ZA1/Inquisitor X, you basically get the effects of Rapid Fire & Full BAB+1 (when Flurrying) for free, with Perfect Strike, another Ranged Feat (Precise Shot?), and of course great Saves and WIS to AC while you're unarmored...
It doesn't quite match Rapid Fire + Multishot 1:1 (which full Inquisitor will only get at Level 9), but you save Feats for other stuff and you get up to speed quicker, as in effective Rapid Shot AND PRecise Shot at level 1, while barely hurting Inquisitor ability and spell progression...
Do remember that full Inquisitor is not giving you Bonus Feats and you will need to qualify for those Archery Feats only using it's 3/4 BAB. (A ZA1 dip will actually be 1 BAB ahead when Flurrying)
Since you don't get ability to shoot bows without provoking in melee (high level ZA ability), taking Stunning Fist via Feat is a decent melee option that leverages your WIS, and you get an extra usage/day from your 1 Monk level. There's at least one Feat to boost the Stunning Fist DC to make it more reliable, and Weapon Finesse lets you hit with DEX for UAS. And since your Inquisitor abilities are weapon-agnostic, Judgement or even Bane can go on top of that Unarmed Strike/Stunning Fist attack, too.
Even with those, you will have plenty of Feats for whatever you want.
I'm gonna be that person and say...go human. Archery is very feat intensive and you really need every one you can get...on top of that you will find yourself wishing for more skill points. I'm playing a level 8 archer inquisitor (sanctified slayer)with the feather domain. You lose judgement but you can study targets for +1 hit/damage and +1 to bluff/knowledge/perception/sense motive and survival. As a move action until 7.. at level 8 take combat trick and pick up manyshot early.
By level 3 you could have the basic 3 of pb, rapid and precise...on top of that your first teamwork feat could be Friendly fire maneuvers... which means allies no longer provide soft cover from the enemy (basically improved precise shot at level 3...take coordinated shot next and it just keeps going. add in long spells like heroism, heightened awareness and magic weapon greater...along with the before mentioned divine favor with fate's favored...honestly a monk wishes he was so good at that point...not getting improved point blank does suck but luckily we have litany of sloth in a emergency. The admited downside is all the variable you need to keep track of. But honestly people do a double take when i fire off a round and each arrow is doing about 1D8+13 (without point blank) add in that i have 4 of them coming at the opponent (5 with hasted boots) At a min +16/+16/+11 (another +16 with haste and that isnt counting point blank or coordinated shot...actually that isnt with bane either)..cluster shot around the corner at least. Level 10 will be nice when i pick up invisibility greater...flat footed opponents for -dex and then +3D6 damage from sneak attack.
Lol sorry for the rant...anyways go human and go straight inquisitor (recommend sanctified slayer) Later on you will regret the zen dip
I'd probably second the idea of going Zen Archer for three (3) levels to get Point Blank Master and Wisdom to hit for archery. Then you can go forward with Inquisitor for all their tricks.
In that situation, I'd go high Wisdom, and put the 14s in STR and DEX, or STR and CON (neglecting DEX would make the first two (2) levels very painful, however).
And have a look at Oread for race. Bonuses to STR and WIS, and penalty to CHA. SOme of the alternate racial traits are nice, as well, including a bonus to natural AC and a 1x/day deflection of ray attacks.
Zen Archers have this thing where they get to apply their Unarmed Strike Damage to their Arrows, and they get to Flurry of Arrows. If you are a Zen Archer, it behooves you to Multiclass as little as possible: maybe a level in Ranger so you can use a Wand of Gravity Bow. Maybe be a Quinngong, Zen Archer so you can take True Strike. But the more you single-class with Zen Archer, the more Damage you do with more Arrows.
...
You're speaking of the Ki Arrows power they get at 5th level, I assume? I never saw that as a major feature of the class, myself.
Firstly, it doesn't scale all that well relative to a bow, and only starts showing dividends versus a longbow at 8th level forward.
Secondly, in many cases, the swift action and ki point requirements are going to compete with the option of getting an extra attack as part of a flurry, which tends to be superior to the modest increase in damage die in most cases, especially at earlier and mid-levels.
Your point is well-taken on the flurry progression itself, of course. But it has been shown that flurry doesn't keep pace with rapid Shot/Manyshot over time, so ducking out of the flurry progression can also be justified, especially in light of the benefits gained from Inquisitor (judgment, bane and spells, as well as some of the skill benefits).
Don;t get me wrong, I definitely agree that a pure Zen Archer can be hella strong (if a little boring, since it's just round after round of shooting arrows), but OP's party seems like it could probably use some of the extra tricks that an Inquisitor can leverage.
The reason I like the three level dip I suggested is that it gets him most of the key archery feats to start him off, as well as Wisdom to hit, while not gimping the Inquisitor progression too badly.
But Zen is so bad... unless you have a high wis and dex your AC will be horrible, you cannot wear armor and flurry...on top of that manyshot requires rapid shot. Holding off on inquisitors means you have to wait that much longer for teamwork feats (seriously bypassing soft cover at level 3 is awesome) and bane...bane is a game changer with archers.
Read my above post..go human and sanctified slayer...save a non-human for a non-archer. If dead set against it save precise until level 5 and swallow the 4 penalty that you would normally get from soft cover =/ Go human and at 5 you could be taking deadly aim to stack on top of bane
Fair reasoning, Ishamael (whoops, I mean Betrayer of Hope).
Since you're not going Human, of the two options you've presented I'd favour the single level ZA dip. Quandary makes a lot of strong arguments for it (though I'd quibble about the effective BAB piece, and that Point Blank Master is a high level ZA ability... its only @ 3rd). The bottom line is that it really kickstarts your archery feat progression, which is going to be a major pain point otherwise (and taking Precise Shot as your bonus feat bypasses Point Blank Shot and lets you shoot capably into melee from the very start, rather than waiting until 3rd level).
Sure, you're taking a net BAB loss of 1 (you won't have a BAB of +1 until 3rd level), but that is made up for a little with the Flurry boost (which treats all Monk levels as being full BAB for flurry shots). You're also delaying your other Inquisitor features and spells, but it sounds like being an effective archer is core to your concept, and this will help with that considerably.
Starting equipment for a Monk blows, though. You'll probably be able to afford a shortbow and a few arrows, and not much else.
I know this is way off from what you requested, but if you want a capable face person, in a group consisting mostly of melee characters, and do archery, then why not just go with a Bard?
No extra hoops to jump through to get good skills. You might still be a little slow building up to all the archery feats, but you will have spells and bardic performance for your actions as well, so you will certainly be able to contribute.
Vigilante can do archery and face skills really well too if you are up for considering different classes. They are able to get lots of extra feats.
But manyshot still requires point blank. Seriously i know zen sounds good on paper...but really you will regret it later on.
@Dave Justus, I agree with steel refrain I think he is looking for a face but really he wants a archer going...bard would have the same issue as the inquisitor...maybe worse since you dont get the teamwork feats to help a bit
But manyshot still requires point blank. Seriously i know zen sounds good on paper...but really you will regret it later on.
@Dave Justus, I agree with steel refrain I think he is looking for a face but really he wants a archer going...bard would have the same issue as the inquisitor...maybe worse since you dont get the teamwork feats to help a bit
Good point regarding Manyshot. The character will still likely want Point Blank Shot eventually, but at least they're not taking a -4 when shooting into melee for the first couple of levels (as would be the case if they have to select PBS at 1st and wait until 3rd for Precise Shot).
But then again, I'm the same guy who proposed maybe sucking up two levels of shoddiness as an archer by keeping a low-ish DEX and maxing WIS, and waiting out the WIS-to-hit pay-off at the 3rd level of ZA, so what do I know?
It's definitely a situation with trade-offs on either side. ZA grants a feat bonanza on a feat heavy combat style, but I believe many people have been able to build an effective archer Inquisitor without any multiclassing.
One thing that will be worth looking at regardless of class build: consider whether it makes sense to worship Erastil and take the Deadeye Bowman trait. Can help with the pain if one of your allies ends up getting in between you and your target.
Friendly fire maneuvers along with solo tactics negate that issue at level 3...of course that requires point blank and precise.
Honestly the best and easiest thing to do is just go human...this is one of those builds that it just makes more sense you really want the 3 feats by level 3...i remember just firing the one arrow until level 3...it sucked but all of a sudden the group was looking at me saying HOW much damage?? Really at this point i would go a Sanctified slayer over the zen archer any day You will a lot harder and more reliably..and lose maybe one arrow..but then i went feather domain and now have a large cat pouncing on everything..which i give my divine favor to for 5 rounds...gm got really upset when i cast invisibility purge on myself and the cat :)
Anywho, betryer a good spell to keep ready is honeyed tongue..rolling diplomacy twice is very nice
A Warsighted Oracle can stack-up archery feats like crazy, and naturally has the skills and charisma to be a face. They can even choose to temporarily put their bonus feat slots into fighting more effectively in melee if archery isn't going to work in a given battle.
An Elven or Half-Elven Warsighted Oracle can get free longbow proficiency and can also pick up arcane spells with Ancient Lorekeeper. The Nature and Lore Mysteries have ways to be awesome at skill checks, and the Wood Mystery grants a straight, scaling competence bonus to bow attacks plus the ability to conjure scaling wooden armor with no dex-cap and then cast Magic Vestment on it.
AC isn't too bad if you're adding both dex and wis; high dex characters don't usually wear that much armor anyhow. Decent WIS and some Bracers of Armor are basically the same as an enhanced chain shirt with no dex cap.
At first i was gonna say how much more expensive bracers of armor were compared to normal armor...but that has changed (maybe I'm thinking 3.5) I still find it to be a attempt at forcing a square through a circular hole. Fact is you would still want many shot and you cannot get it without point blank or rapid shot...which doesnt work with the monk's flurry. Your Ac would still be a tad lower you also wouldnt be able to use a buckler AND you would have to wait one more lvl to get to the awesome abilities. Lets face it the inquisitor might have one less shot to the monk but the arrows will hit a heck of a lot harder...and he would be more accurate
Yeah, at low levels there was little/no difference between "naked" (WIS+DEX) and Armor,
and compared to STR-based 2Handed Weapon user with Medium armor and it's not that bad AC IMHO, and super vs. Touch/Rays.
Besides Bracers, Mage Armor and Shield spells (+DEX/WIS boost items/spells) are options to use.
My experience with this was using a Plumekith Aasimar with bonus to DEX and WIS, which probably helped,
but if you are in melee range alot, provoking AoOs all the time from shooting is more a worry than a few points of AC.
Taking this approach you MUST realize from the beginning that Multi-shot isn't compatable with the Flurry attack,
you can take Rapid Shot and then Multi later but since Rapid is superfluous with Flurry on it's own, I never bothered...
Yes, meaning I never got Multi shot. But the thing is, with Inquisitor (Bane, Judgement) only delayed by 1 level,
I just didn't feel like I needed it, I mean you're Full Attacking WAY more often than any Melee fighter is used to,
and you can get huge attack and damage boosts to all of those attacks... (unlike pure ZA which most think is good)
Yes, a pure ZA, or pure martial who took the normal archery feat chain will have certain advantages...
This build is for people who love what Inquisitor brings (spells, domain, skills, stalwart, cunning init, discern lies, etc)
You can build an Inquisitor who just takes the full archery chain, and they eventually get advantage of Multi-shot.
But they have to spend all their feats on it, and by the time they get Multi-Shot at level 8, the game is half over.
(being Human doesn't even get around that, although the bonus feat certainly helps assuage the low level pain)
If you feel that lacking Multi-Shot after 8th level is too detrimental,
you can spend the Feats you didn't spend on Archery chain for others with offence effect,
or just don't sweat it since you're still full attacking with Bane/Judgement access, and have fun with it.
So I happened to like being to able to spend my Feats on stuff even unrelated to archery,
while being pretty much on-par for Inquisitor abilities, and ahead in archery until 8th level.
(+1 BAB while full attacking, and the benefits of Perfect Strike)
I found that the +2 to Saves from 1 level in ZA was very synergistic with Inquisitor's Saves + Stalwart,
and Perfect Strike (re-roll attack) is a great ability to have, even if it isn't as easily compared to simpler number-based abilities.
I did take advantage of the Monk to qualify for Stunning Fist (with extra usage from Monk level even though it is Zen Archer),
and took Weapon Finesse and a Style Feat increasing the Stun DC to make sure it's a reliable melee option.
I also could take a Feat increasing the DC for my spells vs. Judgement targets,
which seemed to also apply to my Domain ability (Sp) at least that is what we ruled.
This was with a Scion of Humanity Aasimar, so they had Darkvision, some nice resistances,
a See Invisible SLA, and qualified for a nice trait which effectively lowered my DC to bluff.
I think I was considering taking Deepsight Feat to get 120' Darkvision, but never fit it in with my other fun stuff.
SO over-all I was attracted to the over-all package of ZA1/InquisitorX, which includes alot of defensive bonuses.
If you don't care about that, and want maximum archery ASAP /and/ later on, I guess Fighter1/Inquisitor would be OK.
I just didnt' feel like missing out on the little bit of upper-level advantage was that big of a deal...
Especially when it meant I could afford the Feats to expand on other aspects of the character.