Mark Seifter Designer |
Mark Seifter wrote:
1) Bombs specifically go inert other than when thrown appropriately by that same alchemist, so you can't Snatch Arrows and turn the tables with bombs. This also means that when you AoO with sunder or disarm (highly recommended against alchemist foes by the way!), the bomb does not explode. An alchemist simply cannot create a bomb and not throw it (unless you have that one discovery, and then you can), since it's an all-at-once thing.
2) Theoretically, falls under 10 feet deal no damage, so potions wouldn't break unless a Large creature dropped them. That said, my alchemist Rell keeps his most important potions in adamantine vials,
Thanks for the responses, some additional questions:
1. So if you have Delayed Bomb, do you trigger an AoO when creating the Delayed Bomb since you aren't throwing it?
2. Is there any RAW citation for the no damage to things dropped under 10', or is it a conclusion simply based on the fact that there is no rule that calls for damage?
3. Can the effect from a bomb, say such as a smoke bomb, be dispelled? The bomb creation says that an Alchemist mixes in magic like extracts, and like extracts, bombs go inert if not held by the alchemist.
1) Unclear in the description of the discovery, but I would say yes.
2) Nope, it's based on the fact that there is no rule that calls for damage. I wouldn't raise an eyebrow if a GM wanted to call for it.
3) They are Su, so they can't be dispelled. Incidentally, the fact that Su don't "play nicely" with any of the other rules are why I really dislike the overuse of Su on certain effects (though on bombs, I think it's fitting and fine).
Bonus Question from Second Post) The alchemist has spent one daily use of bomb without successfully fully concocting and throwing it, since the AoO interrupts the action.
Mark Seifter Designer |
Mark Seifter Designer |
Again, thanks for taking time out to respond.
Another question regarding dispelling, can you dispel effects from Extracts? For example could Shield from an extract or infusion be dispelled with Dispel Magic?
No problem. In this case, yes, they can, because the class description calls that fact out on page 27.
N N 959 |
I got an endless supply of questions for ya, here are some more :)
1. Can an Animal Companion be directed to do non-lethal damage?
2. Can an A/C with a 3 INT and who understand speech be told to do non-lethal damage while being commanded to attack?
And on a more philosophical front,
3. After playing 3.5/Pathfinder for a good couple of years, I can't help but notice that nine times out of ten, the best solution is to just kill the bad guys as suppose to doing non-lethal.
From an artistic perspective, why not make it easier to do non-lethal instead of harder? Why not open up more non-lethal options in combat instead of restricting them. Wouldn't the game be more enjoyable if you could throw in a non-lethal punch along with a sword attack, without incurring an AoO?
I'm curious if Paizo has ever discussed changing the penalty on non-lethal and from your perspective, how do you think it would affect the player experience if one got +4 to do non-lethal instead of -4?
Obviously it's cleaner/cheaper if everyone dies.
Mark Seifter Designer |
1 &2) I could see a subdue trick, but I guess technically it isn't one of the tricks, so in PFS it'd have to be a push. Then again, I used to let animals known for flanking in real life, like wolves, do flanks with the attack trick before that flank trick came out in AA.
3) I think taking people alive is usually better, personally. Doesn't matter how unwilling they are to talk if you have the right divinations (speak with dead has many limits). And knowledge is power. Plus, if you can turn an enemy to an ally, you gain a lot more than if you turn them into a corpse. Thematically, doing nonlethal damage with a lethal weapon should be pulling a punch. Probably it should also/instead do less damage. Swords are made to kill people. Trying to use a sword to not kill people should be harder, not easier, than hitting them without regard for their safety.
N N 959 |
1 &2) I could see a subdue trick, but I guess technically it isn't one of the tricks, so in PFS it'd have to be a push. Then again, I used to let animals known for flanking in real life, like wolves, do flanks with the attack trick before that flank trick came out in AA.
What do you think is reasonable difference (justified in the rules) versus the normal A/C and the INT 3 + language A/C in attempting this task? In other words, should there be a benefit in doing something like this with a smarter animal who can actually understand what someone is saying to them?
Thematically, doing nonlethal damage with a lethal weapon should be pulling a punch. Probably it should also/instead do less damage. Swords are made to kill people. Trying to use a sword to not kill people should be harder, not easier, than hitting them without regard for their safety.
Sure, but there are about a thousands things where the rules completely ignore any sense of logic/physics/reality just to create design space. The whole no-dex-bonus-when-flat-footed, is a prime example. It's contradictory and logically absurd that a 100 DEX person is as easy to his as the 10 DEX person if they are both climbing a rope, and yet the person with an 8 DEX is still easier to hit on the same rope. Either your DEX is being factored in or it's not. And the fact that things are zeroed out at 10 DEX is holly arbitrary. What if the average DEX of your society is 12, what is the cosmic significance of 10 other than it being the average for humans?
Another complete departure from any semblance of reality is that fact that armor makes you harder to hit but doesn't reduce the damage, when the opposite would be true.
Or that Pathfinder completely ignores facing in combat.
All these things are done for what I would call artistic reasons, and so be it. But I'm sure you've heard the term murderhobo. Well, given how hard it is to do non-lethal and the fact that grapple, disarm, etc, all force people to burn feats to use them without getting their own head cut off, I'm not surprised most players just focus on killing.
Don't you think, as a designer, that the game experience could be dramatically broadened if it were a lot easier to incapacitate humanoids? Perhaps remove the AoO's on maneuvers against humanoids and eliminate the non-lethal penalty?
Diego Rossi |
3) They are Su, so they can't be dispelled. Incidentally, the fact that Su don't "play nicely" with any of the other rules are why I really dislike the overuse of Su on certain effects (though on bombs, I think it's fitting and fine).
You have the love of 2 of my GMs and me for this statement, and that is the 75% of the GMs in my gaming group. :-)
I am unsure about the opinion of the 4th GM.Mark Seifter Designer |
Mark Seifter wrote:1 &2) I could see a subdue trick, but I guess technically it isn't one of the tricks, so in PFS it'd have to be a push. Then again, I used to let animals known for flanking in real life, like wolves, do flanks with the attack trick before that flank trick came out in AA.What do you think is reasonable difference (justified in the rules) versus the normal A/C and the INT 3 + language A/C in attempting this task? In other words, should there be a benefit in doing something like this with a smarter animal who can actually understand what someone is saying to them?
Honestly? In my games I give smarter animals a lot more leeway. I can't really comment deeply, thus, on the logic of the official stance as per the animal blog post, where an animal with an Int of 20, communicating to someone with a speak with animals spell, would still require a Handle Animal check to do a trick. Not in my home games, anyway.
Mark Seifter wrote:Thematically, doing nonlethal damage with a lethal weapon should be pulling a punch. Probably it should also/instead do less damage. Swords are made to kill people. Trying to use a sword to not kill people should be harder, not easier, than hitting them without regard for their safety.
Sure, but there are about a thousands things where the rules completely ignore any sense of logic/physics/reality just to create design space. The whole no-dex-bonus-when-flat-footed, is a prime example. It's contradictory and logically absurd that a 100 DEX person is as easy to his as the 10 DEX person if they are both climbing a rope, and yet the person with an 8 DEX is still easier to hit on the same rope. Either your DEX is being factored in or it's not. And the fact that things are zeroed out at 10 DEX is holly arbitrary. What if the average DEX of your society is 12, what is the cosmic significance of 10 other than it being the average for humans?
Another complete departure from any semblance of reality is that fact that armor makes you harder to hit but doesn't reduce the damage, when the opposite would be true.
Or that Pathfinder completely ignores facing in combat.
All these things are done for what I would call artistic reasons, and so be it. But I'm sure you've heard the term murderhobo. Well, given how hard it is to do non-lethal and the fact that grapple,...
Oh, there's tons of weird stuff in the game for gamist reasons, 100%. But I do think you should have to make a conscious decision to try to spare someone. And it really isn't that hard. You just need one person with OK damage (usually someone pretty accurate) to take the -4 just until they connect once. At that point, the cushion should be sufficient unless you have a crit from a high crit weapon. Also, do note that nonlethal damage can sometimes be very effective to defeating an enemy or negating its abilities, such as Feorcity, Diehard, and the reefclaw's Death Throes. I think the Shattered Star group I was in killed exactly 1 creature that wasn't an evil outsider or undead throughout Books 1 and 2, but I may be forgetting one.
Mark Seifter Designer |
Mark, something I noticed being discussed was Ninjas and the Extra Rogue Talent feat. Does the omission of an Extra Ninja Trick feat mean they can't get extra tricks or that they can use Extra Rogue Talent to do so?
Y'know, it seems like clear intent, and it used to be I was sure they could just take ERT and that it was a no-brainer. But the ACG has introduced features and archetypes that explicitly state that they are giving a certain option but that it isn't the class feature so you can't take extra, as well as features that don't say either way but are hugely imbalanced unless they follow that rule.
That being said, I still think ninjas can take ERT.
Mark Seifter Designer |
Mark Seifter wrote:3) They are Su, so they can't be dispelled. Incidentally, the fact that Su don't "play nicely" with any of the other rules are why I really dislike the overuse of Su on certain effects (though on bombs, I think it's fitting and fine).You have the love of 2 of my GMs and me for this statement, and that is the 75% of the GMs in my gaming group. :-)
I am unsure about the opinion of the 4th GM.
Today—
<REDACTED>: Could we just make the <redacted>'s <redacted> ability a supernatural ability?
ME: No, it hast to stay a spell-like ability that ignores SR. I'll add a line to make that clear.
N N 959 |
Honestly? In my games I give smarter animals a lot more leeway. I can't really comment deeply, thus, on the logic of the official stance as per the animal blog post, where an animal with an Int of 20, communicating to someone with a speak with animals spell, would still require a Handle Animal check to do a trick. Not in my home games, anyway.
Well, I think there needs to be some roadblock to gnome Druids who run around with a 5 CHR and no skill point in Handle Animal using their Speak with Animals in order to completely circumvent the need to do HA checks.
But the problem is the FAQ doesn't leave a lot of room for GM discretion. If one agrees that a GM can Push a normal animal to do Non-lethal, then a smart animal who understand speech should be better how? (Rhetorical question).
Going to back to my murderhobo point, it'd be nice for Paizo to give more explicit benefits/leeway for players who want to do something other than straight kill the bad guys.
You just need one person with OK damage (usually someone pretty accurate) to take the -4 just until they connect once.
You say that as if the players should know the remaining hit points of the NPC. A lot of GMs refuse to share that information.
The other problem is that many scenarios in PFS go out of their way to give NPC's ridiculous AC's. At 3-4 I recall fighting a ghast with and AC of 25. I recall another sub level 5 scenario where the informant was swinging a greataxe doing +14 on damage or so. Who is going to take -4 on that guy? Nobody in our party.
Right now, I'm in a tier 6-7 with someone how has an AC of 30. That NPC is being flanked by a TWF Rogue and a TWF Ranger. With flanking one is getting +12 to hit, the other is getting +13. If they go non-lethal, they need 20's to hit. If they drop that TWF attack, they'd still need 19's and 20's.
I really think Paizo could have a richer game by reexamining this. I realize it won't happen, people are wedded to the paradigm, but I'm throwing it out there.
Mark Seifter Designer |
Tels |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Indeed, once your non-lethal damage equals or exceeds your current HP, you fall unconscious.
So, for example, say an enemy has 100 HP, and you hit for 20 points of damage on average. Your opt to do non-lethal damage on your attacks until you hit him once. Your first hit does 20 points of damage, meaning he has 20 non-lethal damage, and 100 remaining HP. From that point on, it only takes 4 more hits to drop him, and he won't die from it. Because, once he hits 20 HP, he falls unconscious, but alive.
All you have to do is make the enemy hit the non-lethal threshold, and then it doesn't matter.
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
You don't need to know remaining hp. Just hit once first for nonlethal. Then when they drop from anything but a crit, it is extremely unlikely they will die. Trust me, many of my characters are pretty anti-killing. It hasn't been a problem to do nonlethal.
Relatedly, there have been many times in PFS that my party has said "Uh oh, I think we need to question those guys we just killed," and I was able to respond with "That's okay, all those frostbite hits that [my wife] was scoring were dealing nonlethal cold damage."
That spell is awesome on so many levels.
Sammy T |
I know a Grappling FAQ/tune-up is far down the line, but are you willing to share your thoughts on how you feel it is currently balanced? Too strong, too weak, just about right?
As it is right now, if you play by RAW (not JJ's interpretation) that on Round 1 you can only initiate the grapple and then on subsequent rounds us Greater/Rapid/Standard grapple, it means that even when a L11 grappler is next to his target, it takes 2 rounds to do a whole grapple routine...while in that same time a Full Caster has dropped at least 2 Save or Die spells and a Full BAB martial has full attacked twice.
If you play by JJ's interpretation, that you can use standard/Greater/Rapid in a single round, that puts a martial grappler back on par with a melee.
(I could see pushing Rapid Grappler back to L11 to keep it on pace with BAB full attacks and/or cumulative -5 CMB penalties on each additional grapples past the first in the same round.)
N N 959 |
Then when they drop from anything but a crit, it is extremely unlikely they will die.
Speaking of which, I just hit an NPC with a 20 on a nonlethal attack using a bow...luckily the AC was 30 or my roll of 27 would have killed the NPC.
@Tels. Yeah, I know how it works. But when I have seen people agree to use non-lethal, I've never seen anyone doing it once early. I'm guessing they don't want to roll non-lethal until they believe the next non-lethal attack will be the knock-out. Mainly because if you take them negative, it's the same result. So people just use lethal and if that last lethal get them to close, then they are willing to use non-lethal.
In other words, why take -4 on your attack when you can knock them negative and just use a DC 15 heal check to stabilize them? When players know the remaining hit points and they realize that they might go beyond -CON, then they are much more willing to use non-lethal, hence my comment.
Echoen |
Huuuuuuge question here, one that affects hundreds of abilities (especially 3rd party features) but also common ones like Grab.
Question: By default, can you take Free Actions when it is not your turn?
If no: Creatures with Grab cannot use Grab when they hit with an AoO.
If yes: Creatures can drop prone at any time.
Mark Seifter Designer |
I know a Grappling FAQ/tune-up is far down the line, but are you willing to share your thoughts on how you feel it is currently balanced? Too strong, too weak, just about right?
As it is right now, if you play by RAW (not JJ's interpretation) that on Round 1 you can only initiate the grapple and then on subsequent rounds us Greater/Rapid/Standard grapple, it means that even when a L11 grappler is next to his target, it takes 2 rounds to do a whole grapple routine...while in that same time a Full Caster has dropped at least 2 Save or Die spells and a Full BAB martial has full attacked twice.
If you play by JJ's interpretation, that you can use standard/Greater/Rapid in a single round, that puts a martial grappler back on par with a melee.
(I could see pushing Rapid Grappler back to L11 to keep it on pace with BAB full attacks and/or cumulative -5 CMB penalties on each additional grapples past the first in the same round.)
I think that there are one or two grappling abilities that would currently be problematic under a relaxed paradigm, such as the Order of the Penitent's odd ability to skip right to the tie-up with their first maintain check, at no penalty. One thing that is important is whether or not being tied up automatically makes you helpless and thus coup de graceable. Very smart, very rules-knowledgeable people have disagreed on that, and I think after a few discussions that my initial estimation (that they are helpless when tied up) may have been too hasty. Clearly any setup that would allow someone who could get themselves two true strike spells toauto-kill one enemy with no chance of failure save a natural 1 is bad thing overall.
Mark Seifter Designer |
Mark could you see if subterranean animal companions can be added? Maybe a deephound or some sort of underground bred mount.
Oh man, I've been hoping for some cool subterranean companions for a while! I bet there might be something in Monster Codex, but they finished that before I got here, mostly (I did get to write one goblin, though. I hope he proves a fun fight for people's PCs!). But yeah, Monster Codex seems like the right place for that. It wouldn't fit Unchained or Occult (though it could potentially fit into other product lines, but I have no power there)
Mark Seifter Designer |
Huuuuuuge question here, one that affects hundreds of abilities (especially 3rd party features) but also common ones like Grab.
Question: By default, can you take Free Actions when it is not your turn?
If no: Creatures with Grab cannot use Grab when they hit with an AoO.
If yes: Creatures can drop prone at any time.
Usual disclaimer, since I noticed that you were linked here by TOZ, so you may not have seen it one of the other times: This is my own personal opinion for my own games, not an official ruling.
Free actions cannot be taken off-turn unless they say they can. Some abilities, like rock catching, need errata to say they can be taken off turn.
Mark Seifter Designer |
Mark Seifter Designer |
Mark Seifter wrote:Usual disclaimer, since I noticed that you were linked here by TOZ, so you may not have seen it one of the other times: This is my own personal opinion for my own games, not an official ruling.Just thought I would point him to you in case you hadn't picked up that one yet. :)
Yup, good call! The post where one poster collected a few of his top FAQs (including that one) and I said that almost all of them are on the top of my list as well is in a really random thread somewhere, and this is probably more visible than that.
Mark Seifter Designer |
Mark, can we expect that there will be a release sometime in the near future about the blood of dragons ability of the Dragon disciple and the bloodrager bloodlines?
On any given day, as a rule of thumb, I would not generally recommend to expect any particular clarification in the near future, no. That said, it seems like a good thing to clarify.
Athel |
I don't know how much you've worked on Pathfinder Unchained, or how much you're allowed to reveal, but I'll take a shot:
In the Gencon RPG Rules Q&A, Jason Bulmahn said that certain feats were getting unchained, many in order to tie in with the martial fatigue system they're debuting in that book. My question is if there will be any original unchained feats published in this book, either tied to the fatigue system or for other systems?
Mark Seifter Designer |
You are correct that I wouldn't be able to reveal that yet, but I will say that it would seem likely that occasional other new subsystems might have associated feats. Like if we decided to have a new subsystem for butterfly collecting to gain different benefits depending on the colors of the butterflies, then there might be a few feats involving butterfly-collecting.
jyggi |
You are correct that I wouldn't be able to reveal that yet, but I will say that it would seem likely that occasional other new subsystems might have associated feats. Like if we decided to have a new subsystem for butterfly collecting to gain different benefits depending on the colors of the butterflies, then there might be a few feats involving butterfly-collecting.
so ultimate butterfleis is confirmed for 2015???
Mark Seifter Designer |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Mark Seifter wrote:You are correct that I wouldn't be able to reveal that yet, but I will say that it would seem likely that occasional other new subsystems might have associated feats. Like if we decided to have a new subsystem for butterfly collecting to gain different benefits depending on the colors of the butterflies, then there might be a few feats involving butterfly-collecting.so ultimate butterfleis is confirmed for 2015???
With a butterfly section in Unchained, why would we need Ultimate Butterflies in 2015? We thought that would be enough for at least a year!
Mark Seifter Designer |
Hey do not let the boss know you are telling everyone about lepidopterist feats.
I'm just brimming with butterfly-related spoilers. With the new subsystem, we're thinking of updating the Beast of Lepidstadt to the Beast of Lepidopterism, an intelligent flesh golem who collects butterflies.
Rysky |
David Neilson wrote:Hey do not let the boss know you are telling everyone about lepidopterist feats.I'm just brimming with butterfly-related spoilers. With the new subsystem, we're thinking of updating the Beast of Lepidstadt to the Beast of Lepidopterism, an intelligent flesh golem who collects butterflies.
And add butterflies to the list of swam forms for vampires?
Mark Seifter Designer |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Mark Seifter wrote:And add butterflies to the list of swam forms for vampires?David Neilson wrote:Hey do not let the boss know you are telling everyone about lepidopterist feats.I'm just brimming with butterfly-related spoilers. With the new subsystem, we're thinking of updating the Beast of Lepidstadt to the Beast of Lepidopterism, an intelligent flesh golem who collects butterflies.
It's only fair. We want to help vampires cast off that dark brooding stereotype and let people see that inside, every vampire can be sparkly and friendly, like a butterfly.
Flutter |
Mark Seifter wrote:You are correct that I wouldn't be able to reveal that yet, but I will say that it would seem likely that occasional other new subsystems might have associated feats. Like if we decided to have a new subsystem for butterfly collecting to gain different benefits depending on the colors of the butterflies, then there might be a few feats involving butterfly-collecting.so ultimate butterfleis is confirmed for 2015???
Woot!
andreww |
Have you been following the discussions on typed versus untyped bonuses and whether stats count as a type of bonus?
Can we expect any view on multiple stacking of the same stat down the line? Examples include Monk/Sacred Fist Wisdom to AC and Lore/Lunar Oracle combined with Divine Protection for Charisma to reflex twice although there are plenty of others.
Mark Seifter Designer |
Have you been following the discussions on typed versus untyped bonuses and whether stats count as a type of bonus?
Can we expect any view on multiple stacking of the same stat down the line? Examples include Monk/Sacred Fist Wisdom to AC and Lore/Lunar Oracle combined with Divine Protection for Charisma to reflex twice although there are plenty of others.
It's on my priority list.
Mark Seifter Designer |
Do erratas published in FAQ make it to the .pdf versions of the errata'd books before there is a reprint of the print copies?
I'm fairly sure that only the official errata document, the one used for print copies, is added to the pdfs. Deciding how that works is several steps above my pay grade, though.
Mark Seifter Designer |
What were your favorite classes in Bravely Default?
Very early game: Monk is good until you get decent weapons
Early game: Merchant is good if you are a greedy bastard like me and want to have +50% pg equipped on all characters at all times. Also, special thanks to the Thief Knife weapon. I would always have a fast character, probably a support character whose damage would have sucked anyway, go first and quadra mug everybody with this.Early-to-mid game: You probably have a really good bow at this point, making hunter really good for a little bit.
Midgame to early-lategame: Valkyrie. The first ability to hit all foes gives you an extremely powerful fight-opener for random encounters. By now, you can have someone go deep in Thief to pick up the all foes steal ability to replace the Thief Knife quadra mug with a double all foes steal on fastest character, then everyone else pulverizes the encounter with the double-valkyrie move. That should end pretty much any encounter on auto, and as a benefit, when you switch your moves, you don't need to wait for an encounter with four or more dudes to set up your new auto like you used to with quadra-mug and regular attacks. Also Valkyrie has a credible auto-win against foes that don't counterattack by having everyone jump with the Time Mage's hasten world.
Early lategame to endgame: Whatever is funniest. Against enemies who don't usually brave, you can sometimes do silly things like have ninjas utsusemi every turn. My favorite, though, is the performer ability to gain everyone BP + Mime + Mime + Mime. As long as you have two in performer or freelancer, you can have 3 characters spend 4-5 BP per turn while the 4th does that, then have the one who didn't do that one do it the next turn, while the other one spends 4 BP.
Mark Seifter Designer |
Alexander Augunas Contributor |
Mark Seifter Designer |