Dissapointment Among the Silent

[Lam]

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:

Agreed. We can't make EL neutral territory unless they want it. And want it enough to ensure it works.

EL can not be neutral territory unless they want it and actively enforce it; ANd we want it and protect it. Come OE it will seem a sweet spot unless we all avenge and raze any who attack it (and many will try until it becomes legend).

I do not know if the will is here. Some already seem to think it is a sweet reward. It will take not a consensus, not majority. not a duper majority, but a wide conviction to make it so.
I think it could be something that makes the reputation of the product. Others already see it as the sweet pot.

Who knows, come OE, the only surviving Kickstart players are part of EL, having their play and keeping it PvP free in settlement and wild in alpha ring with POI and allies about the map to actually support its existence.

IMO, Kickstart people making it to OE is about the right size for one nation.

[Kobold Catgirl]

Honestly, I don't think Bluddwolf resents the idea of leaving EL alone nearly as much as he resents implications that going after EL in-game would mean he has no out-of-game respect for Thod.

Bluddwolf is one of those players who takes the gap between IC and OOC pretty seriously in this regard, from what I've seen. Understanding this is key to engaging him in a semi-productive manner.

Also, take this stick. If he doesn't react, poke him a few times.

[Kemedo]

I must say the idea behind Thod's Friend (now EL) is amazing.

I am one of the folks that came here because the tabletop, with all the expectations from being it. But while I was discovering what will be the game, my expectations were shattered.

Said that, I don't think anyone can tell what other settlement must or must not be by only proclaming it. You must not only earn it, but fight for it, defend and attack properly. Let them declare itself as it and work for it. Some people call it Freedom to choice.

IMHO, all the friendly will be post aside when EL settlement get a tower that your settlement were planning to get. When a caravan will be attacked inside EL's territory and they won't move a finger to defend. And that is not meaning they will be different from they are now. Reviewing the posts where Kabal was rising their numbers in the end of land rush, there was a lot of "friendly" warning by only a reference on who kabal could move from place, just an exemple.

All the neutrality of switzerland will be questioned when (and if) they found oil in their soils.

[Bringslite of Fidelis]

I so can't wait until the focus is the 10 or 20 nearest hexes (by necessity of distance). All of this will be ancient fable...

[Gpunk]

No one outside of Freevale was involved in the decision to change governing structure. 2 months of Chaotic Democracy brought that about on it's own. It was not fun.

I understand the political jockeying makes it hard to accept but Aragon and EoX did not encourage Freevale's governing change in any way.

[Gol Tink]

Gpunk wrote:

No one outside of Freevale was involved in the decision to change governing structure. 2 months of Chaotic Democracy brought that about on it's own. It was not fun.

I understand the political jockeying makes it hard to accept but Aragon and EoX did not encourage Freevale's governing change in any way.

But for realsies, as Chief Instigator of Drama within the EoX, we really didn't have a clue. We learnt about the changes... like, 15 minutes before it was posted on these forums?

[-Aet- Areks]

So anyway, infiltration for political reasons is a completely viable tactic that will likely be utilized until API checks are the norm.

Ryan has already stated that the more malicious aspects of infiltration will have substantially more security measures to emplace than EVE currently does.

That being said, if this scenario does unfold, I fully expect EL's neutrality to be tested significantly. Being "switzerland" might be biting off more than they can chew, but only time will tell on that.

[Bringslite of Fidelis]

Happy Birthday, Xeen! :)

[<Kabal> Dan Repperger]

Obviously this thread has wandered all over the place, and I'm not interested in wading into some long-running feuds. The only value proposition I was shooting for is a pretty pragmatic one.

1. PFO is a video game being run by a company that must make a certain amount of money to keep the game around.

2. That money comes from people that care enough about the game to pay to play it.

3. While no one has any statistics, we all know there's at least a measurable percentage of people that are turning away from the game because, while they knew there would be PVP, they expected a little more room for RP and PVE.

4. If enough players turn away, the money dwindles. Should that happen, GW has to lay off staff, slow development, or possibly shut the game down.

5. Ergo, if you want this game to survive so you can do the craziest, wild west violence, territorial wars, or whatever -- and do it with an ever-improving feature set -- it may behoove you (regardless of IC alignment or OOC play preferences) to agree upon one place in the world that all factions don't tear apart so PVE/RP players will join the game and thus keep it financially solvent.

Maybe it's not necessary. Maybe there are enough PVPers to carry the game. Maybe a settlement will get strong enough to be genuinely stable. Who knows. I'm just saying it's worth thinking about.

And, yes, it requires treating one settlement as special. Even if the occasional jerk goes in there to be disruptive, the general populace would be agreeing to leave it alone. But that settlement is also bringing a very unique, meta-game resource we all benefit from: a revenue stream that lets PFO survive and grow.

[Lord Regent: Deacon Wulf]

<Kabal> Dan Repperger wrote:

Obviously this thread has wandered all over the place, and I'm not interested in wading into some long-running feuds. The only value proposition I was shooting for is a pretty pragmatic one.

1. PFO is a video game being run by a company that must make a certain amount of money to keep the game around.

2. That money comes from people that care enough about the game to pay to play it.

3. While no one has any statistics, we all know there's at least a measurable percentage of people that are turning away from the game because, while they knew there would be PVP, they expected a little more room for RP and PVE.

4. If enough players turn away, the money dwindles. Should that happen, GW has to lay off staff, slow development, or possibly shut the game down.

5. Ergo, if you want this game to survive so you can do the craziest, wild west violence, territorial wars, or whatever -- and do it with an ever-improving feature set -- it may behoove you (regardless of IC alignment or OOC play preferences) to agree upon one place in the world that all factions don't tear apart so PVE/RP players will join the game and thus keep it financially solvent.

Maybe it's not necessary. Maybe there are enough PVPers to carry the game. Maybe a settlement will get strong enough to be genuinely stable. Who knows. I'm just saying it's worth thinking about.

And, yes, it requires treating one settlement as special. Even if the occasional jerk goes in there to be disruptive, the general populace would be agreeing to leave it alone. But that settlement is also bringing a very unique, meta-game resource we all benefit from: a revenue stream that lets PFO survive and grow.

Then let Emerald Lodge earn this right.

I will say with all clarity and intention: Golgotha will agree to nothing that isn't even being proposed diplomatically by all parties involved.

If Emerald Lodge wants to play the game and send an emissary to EoX to work something out, then by all means this is something Earned.

Unfortunately this is how we do things, with effort and a treaty. You can not get something for nothing.

In addition: PFO has more legs to stand on then just the "disappointed" there will be revenue streams once the game is polished and into OE.

[Guurzak]

I dropped Thod a note asking him to weigh in if interested.

[T7V Jazzlvraz]

I can only imagine the shock and awe Thod and Snorter're going to feel when they finally have time to catch up on this thread. Has anyone noticed they've not put in an appearance here at all?

They're busy Pathfinder Societying, spreading the Golarion-love in the real world (coming up: one of the busiest weekends of the calendar), and all we're operating on here is their past statements bringing up the idea that Emerald Lodge was going to be a free city, mostly due to its proximity to the Emerald Spire. How about we put this aside until we can hear from them, and find out whether they're willing to put themselves at the centre of this brouhaha?

[Merkaile of Fidelis]

I'm with those saying that you can try to have someone attempt to be politically neutral. It would have to be backed by a strong enough coalition of force to enforce. It doesn't have to be all the other settlements, just enough to put the fear of destruction into the minds of those thinking to cause mischief. I'm also pretty sure ("cynic" that I am) that someone will come along and test that force's will/power.

[Being]

It sounds like a fine backstory for an excellent fantasy adventure tale.

[Valkenr]

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Honestly, I don't think Bluddwolf resents the idea of leaving EL alone nearly as much as he resents implications that going after EL in-game would mean he has no out-of-game respect for Thod.

Bluddwolf is one of those players who takes the gap between IC and OOC pretty seriously in this regard, from what I've seen. Understanding this is key to engaging him in a semi-productive manner.

Also, take this stick. If he doesn't react, poke him a few times.

This game isn't a 24/7 RP, what you do in-character will always reflect you out-of-character to the majority of the people here. It may seem RPer heavy, but as I have said many times here, forum populations are not representative. This game will cover the entire spectrum of always to never RP.

If you have a Lawful-Good Paladin, and a Chaotic-Evil Rogue, you can't go rob and murder some random group on your Rogue and expect them to be all buddy-buddy to your Paladin.

For most people, your characters are an extension of your personality, not a separate personality.

Not everyone will take negative actions against them as badly, but you can't be surprised when someone does, or think that it isn't disrespectful to negate potentially hours of work. I actually became friends with the guys I pulled my most exciting robbery on in Rust, I also pissed a lot of other people off and was KOS to pretty much the entire server.

[Notmyrealname]

The OP was more about "I don't have time for PVP wars ,so what am I going to do in PFO?" I don't think a neutral city is addressing what is needed, maybe a settlement that trades and supports others who make war would be better for a casual player. I think crafting and trading can be done as a casual player and it will be a very needed activity. As long as PFO does not have roving gangs of gankers that exist to ruin your day it will rise above the bad PVP reputation mmo's have.

[Chris Lambertz]

Removed a post and the replies to it. Personal insults and airing out private messages publicly are not OK here.

[DeciusBrutus]

Back on tangent: I agree that the Emerald Lodge is the best settlement for a neutral ground to exist on, but I remain unconvinced that a consensus exists that neutral ground is needed.

[Kemedo]

I guess the correct question to be made is:

"What do Nihimon and his political allies win by suggesting EL immunity?"

While we understand how politics works, "nothing" is not a entirely correct answer.

[Guurzak]

Need is not necessary; sufficient want would be adequate.