Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Person A gathering herbs and minerals without risk or caution is not a "meaningful human interaction". It's PVE in the most negative sense of the word: it's a single-player game, and not even a very good one since there's no challenge.
And every game will suck, as long as we must choose between PvE security OR PvP apocalypse.
When you take your car with your family, you know perfectly well that you can on day any moment. It doesn't mean that you will, and that you must raise your children in the permanent fear of death.
Granted, we can't compare a video game where dying doesn't mean a lot, but it's not the point. The point is balance. If most of the time you engage in PvP when you go gathering, for the vast majority of the target player base, it is just boring.
It is not losing, that is the problem. The problem is I need that most players don't want to be in a permanent or semi permanent state of adrenaline production. Some people want, most don't.
Goblin Squad Member
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Person A gathering herbs and minerals without risk or caution is not a "meaningful human interaction". It's PVE in the most negative sense of the word: it's a single-player game, and not even a very good one since there's no challenge.
Person A going out to gather herbs and minerals, with full knowledge that Person B might meet him on the way back to town to solicit a nonconsensual donation, has many options at his disposal for managing risk:reward ratios: he can choose closer or farther harvesting spots, he can solicit info from settlement chat on known bandit patterns, he can deliberately set up shop near where some allies are fighting back a goblin incursion, he can hire scouts or guards, etc. The game of "click the button to put the herbs in the basket" has gotten a lot more complex, and probably involves a lot more interaction with other people.
I agree with you. But I know that for a lot of PvE minded folk, harvesting is a monotone, yet mind-soothing activity, that they can do for hours. Now you are adding adrenaline to the mix, and they have to plan, inform themselves, possibly team up or be social. It's like yoga, but now you are trying to maintain that trance with the knowledge that at any moment someone could slap you with a wet towel. It's not the same. It is not that they can't, but probably won't.
I think their best bet will be to harvest in the NPC-patrolled areas.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It is not losing, that is the problem. The problem is I need that most players don't want to be in a permanent or semi permanent state of adrenaline production. Some people want, most don't.
That part about adrenaline is interesting to me, video games almost never give me an adrenaline rush. I play MOBAs, FPS, RTS, and have raided in MMOs and I would say they very rarely cause adrenaline rushes. Can feel it all the time playing sports, but I always assumed it was the difference in physical involvement.
That aside, I'll agree that it's not losing that's the significant problem, but I'll disagree a bit and add that it's what's lost by losing that can make the experience feel bad or lopsided. The a big problem a lot of the anti-pvp people have is that it's kinda of an all or nothing thing, if you successfully picked flowers by yourself for 4 hours and just as you're about to arrive home someone gets you, instead of a minor penalty for getting caught and losing, your entire day is undone. When the risk to the attacker was arguably non-existent or minor compared to yours.
Hopefully the SAD mechanics will prevent this sort of thing from being common place, but I understand the source of the complaints, it's not always about the act of losing itself.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The reason doesn't have to be meaningless to be frustrating. Person B wanting the herbs and minerals that person A just spent their only available playing time this week harvesting is perfectly meaningful, and still makes person A fear they're about to waste their time and money.Person A gathering herbs and minerals without risk or caution is not a "meaningful human interaction". It's PVE in the most negative sense of the word: it's a single-player game, and not even a very good one since there's no challenge.
Person A going out to gather herbs and minerals, with full knowledge that Person B might meet him on the way back to town to solicit a nonconsensual donation, has many options at his disposal for managing risk:reward ratios: he can choose closer or farther harvesting spots, he can solicit info from settlement chat on known bandit patterns, he can deliberately set up shop near where some allies are fighting back a goblin incursion, he can hire scouts or guards, etc. The game of "click the button to put the herbs in the basket" has gotten a lot more complex, and probably involves a lot more interaction with other people.
If Person A wanders out into the woods without taking any of those precautions and just hopes for the best, then he may very well Learn A Valuable Lesson Today but that's as it should be: when playing any game with insufficient preparation for the challenges that will confront you, you will be strongly encouraged by the game systems to improve your play.
You expanded on the exact point I made:
The reason doesn't have to be meaningless to be frustrating.
as though that somehow negated it. I specifically said that it isn't meaningless to take the harvester's product. It doesn't mean it doesn't bother some people.
This whole conversation is not about whether people are right to want something, it's about them feeling they are being screwed over whether it's true or not. We have the choice to treat them like idiots or understand what's bothering them and making the tiniest of effort not to make them feel like idiots for not having realized what was coming.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I specifically said that it isn't meaningless to take the harvester's product. It doesn't mean it doesn't bother some people.
This whole conversation is not about whether people are right to want something, it's about them feeling they are being screwed...
OK, now I understand the point you are making.
If Person A wants to be able to come from from work and doubleclick the icon for a "gather herbs in safety" game, where he doesn't have to think about the social dynamics and risks attendant on doing so in a gameworld populated in part by hostile players, then he can do that in PFO- but he'll have to stay in the safe zones around the NPC settlements, which means lower reward, lower training caps, and little or no involvement in the politics of the Crusader Road.
He's not wrong to want what he wants, nor to find certain kinds of game design-compatible interactions frustrating, nor to prefer to avoid them. He is wrong, though, if he thinks he can have guaranteed safety without a significant tradeoff in lost capability to pay for it.
I could totally see there being a population of players who sometimes venture out into the wilds with their hearts in the throats and their swords gripped tight in white-knuckled fists, but who frequently retreat to the safeholds whenever that gets too stressful.
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Goblin Squad Member
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... I can see how some people concerned about the murderfest could be bothered by the recent announcements. We were told that there would be consequences for random PK, and that the game would not be a FFA, only to now be told that at least some of the time, large sections of the map would be consequence free open fire zones. And it's not an unreasonable assumption those times will be during peak hours when settlements have people on to defend their towers during the PVP window.
Whether or not these prove to be the problems that some think they will be, there is an understandable reason for people worried about this to be moreso now than they were a week ago.
I completely agree with the bolded section.
I would like to point out that I think most of the towers will be claimed fairly quickly, so that there won't be many true 24/7 FFA PvP zones after the first day or two. I also think there will be some areas of the map where it'll actually be kind of nice to hang out, and other areas of the map that I really wouldn't want to be trying to move cargo through. I think this is very much what the game would look like eventually anyway, and I'm glad the devs were able to give us something that will partially emulate that early on.
There will still be consequences for random PK, and after a day or two I really think there won't be that many FFA PvP zones you'd have to worry about. The big challenge will be identifying the folks you want to do business with, and whose territory you'll feel comfortable playing in.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would say that them being claimed is fairly irrelevant, since during the PVP window they'll still be FFA. It just means that instead of the map being constantly FFA, you'll have rolling zones of FFA rippling across the map. Not to mention that, since all towers controlled by a settlement will be on the same window, there will be a period (as determined by the number of towers controlled) where you cannot leave your settlement without passing through a FFA zone (unless, for some reason, you choose not to control the towers adjacent to your settlement.) Yes, there's an argument that the settlement should be patrolling during this time, but that's only a partial solution when you factor in that they'll also be busy defending their towers, and that if they're not adopting an NBSI stance (and thus becoming part of the problem), they won't know if anyone passing through is going to be trouble until it's too late.
I have faith that if it does prove to be too problematic, the GW crew will adjust it, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as fine yet.
Edit to add: My personal concern is that part of the goal of EE is to set the tone and establish community norms, and that we risk (not guaranteed) setting a tone that any future restrictions designed to differentiate meaningful PVP from casual ganking will be fighting against established conventions.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I just realised that we'll be able to begin figuring out how to get out the news, to those concerned in both directions, about where the "safer" and "less safe" areas are at any given time. Casual players, in particular, will need something a bit more reliable than a rumour-mill to help them mitigate risk, but there'll also be some people with only a little time to play who want to know where to go to swing a piece of sharpened metal at another player.
I know many of us don't want a global chat-channel, but Ryan's implied it's likely, because otherwise we'll all be going to an out-of-game source for news. For an in-character news solution, though, how about a Pony Express?
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Goblin Squad Member
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The easiest / most reliable way would be an overlay for the map that players can turn on to see which towers are currently vulnerable and how long until the non-vulnerable towers go vulnerable.
That would save people constantly asking questions in global (and alerting everyone to their movements by doing so).
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Goblin Squad Member
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*Legitimate concern about perception of confrontational, overbearing players*
wordswordswords Who's fault is that?
Some people when they say words you just learn to hear Charlie Brown's trumpet teacher.
So, this is a game, and I'm going to take for granted you want it more interesting than Pick That Herb Online. And the question is: What can you and your 19 players do to have fun in the game?
Well, have fun. Explore and map your six local hexes if you want. If you want to go out and battle herbs then go do that. Or pve some critters. Craft something in your protosettlement. But what about the hordes of violent ruffians coming for your towers?
You're pretty far from anyone except Ozem's Vigil, Tavernhold (monsters and beer! Lee updated the map as I was writing this), Kabal, and Callambea; anyone traveling farther than that is going to have a heck of a time hanging on to the towers around their own town if they went after yours. Are any of those four going to aggress towers past 8ish? That seems like a pretty large pvp window for them to defend their holdings and none have expressed intentions along those lines so far there aren't yet signs of that.
You could rent out your towers to them (again, if they were even willing to take on the extra pvp window). WoT score in exchange for materials you want tons of. With agreements of differing pvp windows you wouldn't have a Moat of Death. It would be like Hunger Games 2, 10:00 don't be in the lightning tree hex go harvest in the poison fog hex until 2:00. It's a pve game of managing resource depletion in your local hexes.
Alternately you can offer one or two towers to Ozem's Vigil or someone as payment for their pvp'ers to protect the area around one or two towers you claimed during your very small window. Their strategy would again be contiguous windows not simultaneous for their own ease, so their players can defend one set of towers for a time then take two steps left and defend the other set of towers.
You could literally post a schedule for each hex around you, harvest and explore at these times, not those times.
And while all that stuff your company doesn't care about is going on in the world, they can just play their pve land management game. Part red light/green light and part are we in danger of strip mining that to uselessness? They don't have to actively defend towers if they don't want to, or harvest in reputation-free death zones if they don't feel like it.
Do you think an analysis like that might help put your residents a little more at ease?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Not sure on how reading Nihimon's post would lead you to reply in this way.
He's rehashing a debate that happened months ago where he and I were debating against allowing consequence free (or consequences too light to be meaningful) slaughter. It's a done issue. We won that debate and the post I was replying to was the first time I've seen it brought up in months.
To pretend like any notable portion of PvPers are still advocating a murder simulator is disingenuous. We are for the most part quite happy with the war simulator we've been given.
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Goblin Squad Member
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*Legitimate concern about perception of confrontational, overbearing players*wordswordswords Who's fault is that?Some people when they say words you just learn to hear Charlie Brown's trumpet teacher.
So, this is a game, and I'm going to take for granted you want it more interesting than Pick That Herb Online. And the question is: What can you and your 19 players do to have fun in the game?
Well, have fun. Explore and map your six local hexes if you want. If you want to go out and battle herbs then go do that. Or pve some critters. Craft something in your protosettlement. But what about the hordes of violent ruffians coming for your towers?
You're pretty far from anyone except Ozem's Vigil, The Gauntlet, Kabal, and Callambea; anyone traveling farther than that is going to have a heck of a time hanging on to the towers around their own town if they went after yours. Are any of those four going to aggress towers past 8ish? That seems like a pretty large pvp window for them to defend their holdings and none have expressed intentions along those lines so far (though silence from The Gauntlet) but there aren't yet signs of that.
You could rent out your towers to them (again, if they were even willing to take on the extra pvp window). WoT score in exchange for materials you want tons of. With agreements of differing pvp windows you wouldn't have a Moat of Death. It would be like Hunger Games 2, 10:00 don't be in the lightning tree hex go harvest in the poison fog hex until 2:00. It's a pve game of managing resource depletion in your local hexes.
Alternately you can offer one or two towers to Ozem's Vigil or someone as payment for their pvp'ers to protect the area around one or two towers you claimed during your very small window. Their strategy would again be contiguous windows not simultaneous for their own ease, so their players can defend one set of towers for a time then take two steps left and defend the...
Sadly, while it's all excellent advice, it's almost exactly what I've been discussing with them to little avail. I wish I had an audio of my suggestions that we talk about the Northern Coalition. The Empire has them skittish, lawful or not. We will certainly work with Ozem's if we can hold this hex.
I do appreciate the advice, and as I've said elsewhere, I'm content with my choice. I do wish there was a way to scale-back the rhetoric here, but it's really all part of the role-playing, and nobody's saying anything that they don't have a perfect right to say.
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Goblin Squad Member
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*Legitimate concern about perception of confrontational, overbearing players*wordswordswords Who's fault is that?
What an interesting interpretation of this:
Player group B wants that space. They marshal military forces to besiege the area.And that, in fact, the game that is about to begin is nothing like the game we saw described in the entire quote. We saw four equal words Explore, Develop, Adventure, Dominate and from the rhetoric on here, it appears the only word that will have any significance is Dominate.Because you are focusing on settlements and in terms of managing settlements develop and dominate are the only terms that apply.
Explore and adventure are something you do as a player, and something far more people will be doing than running settlements.
You have chosen a role catered to PvP oriented players. Who's fault is that?
My point is there is plenty of room to go out exploring, questing, harvesting, running escalations etc. and unless you have groups hunting you whom with you are actively at war your threat of PvP will be light to moderate.
I feel no desire to put small groups at ease about the defensibility of their settlements. Fact is unless they start doing things like recruiting more players, training to fight, and making allies they will lose their settlement in the long run. Pretending like they are safe will lead to complacency and more "GW broke their promises!" when they eventually lose their holdings.
They need to be a bit afraid so that they do something about it.
I'm not trying to run people off, I'm trying to paint something other than TEO/TSV's sunshine and rainbow picture that's going to leave everyone feeling betrayed when they realize it's not true. I want people to be prepared to fight back instead of imagining the fight will never come. We both want the same thing but I'm afflicted by this thing called realism.
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Goblin Squad Member
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After skimming the first and last pages of this thread, I think I'll just stick to my plan to worry about getting into the game for now*, and worry about in-game issues once I'm in the game.
*I built my current computer to meet the specs for LOTRO, just before it came out. I suspect it's time to build a new one for PFO.
I think I represent another faction of The Silent. I backed the second Kickstarter, and I was somewhat active in the forums for a few months after that. Eventually, I decided that I'd run out of meaningful things to say about a game that didn't exist yet. I've kept up with the blog, and lurked a bit in the forums, but for about a year now I've felt that the rhetoric was getting ridiculously heated over a non-existent game.
If there are others like me, be prepared to start hearing from us again when we enter the beta. It's not that we're uninformed, it's not that we don't care about PFO, it's just that we don't feel like wading into the flame wars until we're playing the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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... it's almost exactly what I've been discussing with them to little avail. I wish I had an audio of my suggestions that we talk about the Northern Coalition. The Empire has them skittish, lawful or not. We will certainly work with Ozem's if we can hold this hex.
I do appreciate the advice, and as I've said elsewhere, I'm content with my choice. I do wish there was a way to scale-back the rhetoric here, but it's really all part of the role-playing, and nobody's saying anything that they don't have a perfect right to say.
So, yeah, people are hard-wired to keep thinking of perceived threats and danger until it's resolved. If you're dealing with unmitigated fear of some maybes, the only way those will fizzle out is for your friends to actually get into the game and stand around, and not get ganked. And go harvest some stuff, and not get ganked. And work out some arrangement in that first week pre-Towers that they can engage afterwards, them vs. the environment around Elkhaven.
I think everything will work out for the majority (unless they do something like walk straight into the jaws of a raging pvp window battle, which is dumb, basically the same as "standing in the fire" in PvE).
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Goblin Squad Member
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To pretend like any notable portion of PvPers are still advocating a murder simulator is disingenuous. We are for the most part quite happy with the war simulator we've been given.What was wrong with League of Legends ?
Not sure because I never played it.
Darkfall and Mortal were overly grindy with clunky combat systems that don't favor Alaskan pings. EVE and Wurm were amazing except the combat just felt lame/uninspired and Wurm was super grindy. Freelancer was perfect but after 5 years with no updates or expansions it just started feeling old, and the mods just weren't enough to change that.
Of the supporters who donated money to one of the Kickstarter projects, I am among the mostly silent who are extremely disappointed. Silent because I don't participate much in the community, and disappointed because of where Goblinworks is taking Pathfinder Online.
It's becoming a project that focuses on PvP between settlements instead of the sandbox ideas that were originally marketed.
I'm married, I work full time, I have a busy life outside of gaming. I enjoyed the original Goblinworks updates of a sandbox game, but have absolutely no time to play a sandbox MMO competitively within a company/settlement. That's not what I donated for, and that's not what I can or even want to participate in.
As a community you may agree or disagree, but I just wanted to put my voice out there for Paizo/Golbinworks. I'm one of the mostly silent who rarely posts here. How many more mostly silent donators are disappointed?
Halo.
If what you are saying is true, that is unfortunate! However, I did read someone ( a member, I believe) say that there wouldn't be much to do in alpha other than pvp. Maybe even EE.
It's hard because pvp is a must for sandboxes (IMO), but nobody has really gotten it right. Nobody has accurately emulated the risk pvp should be nor allowed people to be 'safe' without making something a 'safe zone.'
I still am holding onto my EE money. This game does have potential, and I am most interested in the non-battle aspects, too... because battle is always going to the most flavorless part. The key to making battle more flavorful is what is behind it, that is: the WHY of battle.
You know how it should be. Should be like stock, where you can put your money in and pull it back out. ALAS that is not the commercial way.
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Goblin Squad Member
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... I'm trying to paint something other than TEO/TSV's sunshine and rainbow picture...
Maybe you're thinking of Kabal?
I'm not painting sunshine and rainbows, I'm painting Standing Tall in the Dark. If you've got the Heroic Instinct, you know what I'm talking about and you know why it's important.
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Goblin Squad Member
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... I'm trying to paint something other than TEO/TSV's sunshine and rainbow picture...Maybe you're thinking of Kabal?
I'm not painting sunshine and rainbows, I'm painting Standing Tall in the Dark. If you've got the Heroic Instinct, you know what I'm talking about and you know why it's important.
Sunshine and rainbows that will eat your face. Yes.. those are the types of sunshine and rainbows we grow on the Kabal farm tended by unicorn kittens.
We think we will be able to provide an atmosphere within our guild that will be enjoyable to all. Casual, serious, PVP, PVE, or wherever in the middle you choose to fall. Why? Because we have done so in the past.
At no time did we say it was going to be easy, or that everyone will get a free ride. You get out what you put in. That's the way of the world. Regardless of how many lines of fancy code you dress it up in.
You want to play your own particular way and have a group that will help support you doing so. Things don't always go your way, and that is where rule number 1 for us kicks is, which is don't be a dick.
Got kicked in the teeth? Excellent. Brush yourself off, and get back to it. Maybe bring some friends along. Or find a better way to hide. Whatever.
Whatever it is that interested you in the game, go do that. Find a way to do that and enjoy it. That means finding the right group of people to play with, and accepting that not everything will be exactly perfect.
Once you have tried it a few times, a few different ways.. then decide f the game is worth your time/investment.
Until you do that you are just speculating on possibilities.
Or arguing about what Opinion is correct.
Or who has better experience and credentials.
Or whatever other intangible topic you like, because you know the bread is still in the oven.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Less than two hours later, my decision to lurk moar has been totally reinforced. Lacking a game to discuss, the forum remains a hotbed of speculation, opinions, and (mostly) personality clashes.
Have fun arguing! I'll see you when I enter the beta.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Sunshine and rainbows that will eat your face. Yes.. those are the types of sunshine and rainbows we grow on the Kabal farm tended by unicorn kittens.... I'm trying to paint something other than TEO/TSV's sunshine and rainbow picture...Maybe you're thinking of Kabal?
I'm not painting sunshine and rainbows, I'm painting Standing Tall in the Dark. If you've got the Heroic Instinct, you know what I'm talking about and you know why it's important.
Yep, that's what I was thinking of :)
It boggles my mind that anyone could be a "realist" and actually believe that T7V thinks "the fight will never come", or that we've tried to convince anyone of that.
What I've personally tried to do, and what I've worked to get T7V to do, is to embrace the folks who are "concerned about PvP", and work to build something with them instead of dismissing them as unfit for the game. It's been pretty easy to accept that we'll likely lose our Settlement. When that happens, we want to have lots of friends that have good reason to trust us, and genuinely share our values, because we might be forced to rebuild in their Settlement, or even forced to strike off towards the frontier and try to build it all over from the ground up.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Less than two hours later, my decision to lurk moar has been totally reinforced. Lacking a game to discuss, the forum remains a hotbed of speculation, opinions, and (mostly) personality clashes.
Have fun arguing! I'll see you when I enter the beta.
This is why I don't follow these boards much at the moment.
The level of anticipation is to high, and people are getting antsy.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Less than two hours later, my decision to lurk moar has been totally reinforced. Lacking a game to discuss, the forum remains a hotbed of speculation, opinions, and (mostly) personality clashes.
Have fun arguing! I'll see you when I enter the beta.
This is why I don't follow these boards much at the moment.
The level of anticipation is to high, and people are getting antsy.
Sorry guys, I try to keep things entertaining, but alas there are not ten of me.
Stop by (wherever we end up..) anytime and have a drink. I will put it on Nihimon's tab.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...Their opinion does not change the fact that I'm right.
For you.
Your opinion might be right for you.
I bet you dollars to donuts I have more hours in multiplayer games than you have but that does not mean my opinion is any more or less valid than yours. Mine works for me. Yours may work for you, but your 'right' opinion likely works for no-one except you and maybe your sock puppet.
Deal with the fact that you are not Alexander the Great already, Andius.
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Goblin Squad Member
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People do understand that two thirds of the current map does not have towers and thus is exempt from the 'OMG FFA PvP' apocalypse scenario, right?
In addition, the roughly one third of the map that has towers will have them capped within hours of EE opening - thus removing FFA PvP and reverting to the window mechanic with NPC guards. Basically, PvE!
Think of it as the settlement boundaries being expanded to include the surrounding hexes - plus a few additional. Nothing else has really changed except the contesting part. If you're not into that aspect of the game, you can readily ignore it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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People do understand that two thirds of the current map does not have towers and thus is exempt from the 'OMG FFA PvP' apocalypse scenario, right?
In addition, the roughly one third of the map that has towers will have them capped within hours of EE opening - thus removing FFA PvP and reverting to the window mechanic with NPC guards. Basically, PvE!
Think of it as the settlement boundaries being expanded to include the surrounding hexes - plus a few additional. Nothing else has really changed except the contesting part. If you're not into that aspect of the game, you can readily ignore it.
I don't think there are any NPC guards planned for the towers.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...Their opinion does not change the fact that I'm right.For you.
Your opinion might be right for you.
I bet you dollars to donuts I have more hours in multiplayer games than you have but that does not mean my opinion is any more or less valid than yours. Mine works for me. Yours may work for you, but your 'right' opinion likely works for no-one except you and maybe your sock puppet.
Deal with the fact that you are not Alexander the Great already, Andius.
If their opinion is that experience in previous Open World PvP MMO's doesn't matter it's quite simply wrong because it's less an opinion and more denial of a fact.
It's a fact for me, you, and everyone.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Does anyone else wish we could use /ignore on the forums?
I mean while many of the comments are meaningful, humorous or useful there are a few people still stuck on the same old topics and arguments that just can't seem to move on or take it to PM's.
Its like there Radio Shack, still stuck in the 70's and unable to get past that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Its like there Radio Shack, still stuck in the 70's and unable to get past that.
Oh, I only wish Radio Shack was like it was in the '70s. They actually had useful components that couldn't readily be found elsewhere and they didn't require your phone number, email address, astrological sign and blood type to purchase something. Sigh... I am old.
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Goblin Squad Member
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To be perfectly honnest:
No matter on what scale you play, the time you spend playing, the activity you sim at and the expectation you have for this game,
As long as you at least keep in mind:
( Falure <------- Start -------> Success ) is false
And
(Start ---> Falure ---> Falure ---> Falure ---> Success ) is true
You will be fine.
You can do whatever wou like to do in a sandbox game even if everyone keeps hammering the point in that it's open world PvP. Just keep in mind that it may take a bit to figure out for you how to do it. And the great thing about a sandbox is it's fine if the figuring out happens in 5 minute intervals and in between the game sessions.
That is my answer to the OP.
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Goblin Squad Member
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To be perfectly honnest:
No matter on what scale you play, the time you spend playing, the activity you sim at and the expectation you have for this game,
As long as you at least keep in mind:
( Falure <------- Start -------> Success ) is false
And
(Start ---> Falure ---> Falure ---> Falure ---> Success ) is true
You will be fine.
You can do whatever wou like to do in a sandbox game even if everyone keeps hammering the point in that it's open world PvP. Just keep in mind that it may take a bit to figure out for you how to do it. And the great thing about a sandbox is it's fine if the figuring out happens in 5 minute intervals and in between the game sessions.
That is my answer to the OP.
My take on it is a little different. I'm treating this as whatever happens builds on the universal story that we are all creating. If a settlement gets wiped out, it's part of the story. If an escalation becomes so dangerous that multiple settlements need to band together to knock it down, it's all part of the story. PVP will happen. I don't see it as success and failure. I just see it as actions and consequences.
What is ultimately a success in a sandbox anyways? I would say for me that success would be to have fun. To do that in my opinion requires letting go of expectations and welcoming a new profound experience. Whatever that new experience might be.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Of the supporters who donated money to one of the Kickstarter projects, I am among the mostly silent who are extremely disappointed. Silent because I don't participate much in the community, and disappointed because of where Goblinworks is taking Pathfinder Online.
It's becoming a project that focuses on PvP between settlements instead of the sandbox ideas that were originally marketed.
I'm married, I work full time, I have a busy life outside of gaming. I enjoyed the original Goblinworks updates of a sandbox game, but have absolutely no time to play a sandbox MMO competitively within a company/settlement. That's not what I donated for, and that's not what I can or even want to participate in.
As a community you may agree or disagree, but I just wanted to put my voice out there for Paizo/Golbinworks. I'm one of the mostly silent who rarely posts here. How many more mostly silent donators are disappointed?
Have you had a chance to watch any of the video or Adventure along with Bonny? Have you heard how quickly the bad reputation causes problems? Have you heard the challenges harvesting and crafting? I think PfO may be more of what you want than what you thought of it when you first wrote this.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Have you had a chance to watch any of the video or Adventure along with Bonny? Have you heard how quickly the bad reputation causes problems? Have you heard the challenges harvesting and crafting? I think PfO may be more of what you want than what you thought of it when you first wrote this.Of the supporters who donated money to one of the Kickstarter projects, I am among the mostly silent who are extremely disappointed. Silent because I don't participate much in the community, and disappointed because of where Goblinworks is taking Pathfinder Online.
It's becoming a project that focuses on PvP between settlements instead of the sandbox ideas that were originally marketed.
I'm married, I work full time, I have a busy life outside of gaming. I enjoyed the original Goblinworks updates of a sandbox game, but have absolutely no time to play a sandbox MMO competitively within a company/settlement. That's not what I donated for, and that's not what I can or even want to participate in.
As a community you may agree or disagree, but I just wanted to put my voice out there for Paizo/Golbinworks. I'm one of the mostly silent who rarely posts here. How many more mostly silent donators are disappointed?
Neither of your two points address her two points.
Her points revolve around having available time and having to dedicate that time in a competitive way towards supporting companies or a settlement.
Reputation loss for someone is a non factor in that. The challenges of harvesting and crafting seem to be counter productive in addressing her concerns, they are more likely to exasperate them.
A better tack might be to give examples of how a casual player might find enough to do without being bored and not so much that they feel their lack of dedicated time takes away from others.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes, I think you make a good point of that, even in Aragon recruitment. You and Aragon will respect that. But such players will do better in the north.
There are plenty of places for limited time involvement which can be highly beneficial to the settlements created in the sandbox.
They also serve who only stand and wait.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes, I think you make a good point of that, even in Aragon recruitment. You and Aragon will respect that. But such players will do better in the north.
There are plenty of places for limited time involvement which can be highly beneficial to the settlements created in the sandbox.They also serve who only stand and wait.
You are correct in that Aragon is a settlement that can provide a home, for even casual players. We are also a great place for players who are involved mostly during off peak time zone hours (Oceanic and EU + 5 or greater).
As to whether or not "such players will do better in the north" is not bait for me to bite. I can only speak of the advantages of Aragon. I'll let others in the North speak for themselves, and for the "south" to speak up for themselves.
