The only part that could be considered superior is the wisdom damage.
Someone says you use spell dc instead of con mod to determine the dc for poison. Is this true? Where is that stated?
Another thing that kills the druid thing(aside from the Beast Shap limits)
At 4th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any small or Medium animal and back again once per day. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the beast shape I spell, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with.
Any stickler DM won't just let you polymorph into just any animal, it has to be something you have some familiarity with(as decided by the DM). Just because you have read about it in a rulebook doesn't mean that you character has any clue what it is. I would never let a player whose character has no knowledge of sea creatures polymorph into a dire shark.
This effectively limits your polymorph options based on your Knowledge(Nature) skill. As a general rule of thumb, if you can't make the knowledge check to identify it and you have never seen it in person, you can't polymorph into one.
That depends on how to define familiar. Could a devout follower of the old one in question be considered familiar with his god?
Sweet so your players get to use templates like Young on their shape shifting? That's quite handy.Me being GM -
You Beast Form IV into the shape of the Great Old One's race. Congrats, you are a single slimy grub the size of someone's thumb. Now, grow for 100 million years and you can be Bokrug. Try not to get stepped on for the first 1 million years.
This. If you're going to arbitrarily change the rules on the fly expect to deal with the in and out of game consequences.
That depends on how to define familiar. Could a devout follower of the old one in question be considered familiar with his god?Another thing that kills the druid thing(aside from the Beast Shap limits)
At 4th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any small or Medium animal and back again once per day. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the beast shape I spell, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with.
Any stickler DM won't just let you polymorph into just any animal, it has to be something you have some familiarity with(as decided by the DM). Just because you have read about it in a rulebook doesn't mean that you character has any clue what it is. I would never let a player whose character has no knowledge of sea creatures polymorph into a dire shark.
This effectively limits your polymorph options based on your Knowledge(Nature) skill. As a general rule of thumb, if you can't make the knowledge check to identify it and you have never seen it in person, you can't polymorph into one.
Or anyone that's heard of a cult of old one worshipers.
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The amount of GMs here who are incredibly anti-player and antagonistic in their responses disgusts me. Just because someone thinks they came up with something cool, that isn't even mechanically superior to other options, you want to ruin their fun, is laughable. If I create an illusion of myself shifting into Cthulhu, would you say that he entered my mind and drove me insane? So anti-player, it's insane.
It's so much better to let your players do whatever they feel like, even if it contrary to the rules. The amount of anti-GM players and their antagonistic responses disgusts me.
Would a caster who took the shape of Cthulhu have to make a SAN check? No, but everyone else would.
Someone says you use spell dc instead of con mod to determine the dc for poison. Is this true? Where is that stated?
In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. ...
... The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.
So, for instance, Form of the Dragon breath weapon can be a pretty rough DC.
It's so much better to let your players do whatever they feel like, even if it contrary to the rules. The amount of anti-GM players and their antagonistic responses disgusts me.
Would a caster who took the shape of Cthulhu have to make a SAN check? No, but everyone else would.
Ignoring the fact that Cthulhu is both an invalid type (aberration) and too big, no, the "SAN check at sight" ability is outside the scope of Beast Shape 4. You'd be able to look at him just fine.
That aside, it seems ambiguous whether or not Bokrug shape is contrary to the rules, but one thing for certain is that his shape is not overpowered when filtered through Beast Shape. It's just cool.
What game are we playing? Can you show me the rules for a SAN score in Pathfinder?
His Unspeakable Presence and Non-Euclidean abilities essentially cover that.
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What game are we playing? Can you show me the rules for a SAN score in Pathfinder?His Unspeakable Presence and Non-Euclidean abilities essentially cover that.
Yes, but those are aura effects that only take place when you are in those effects. There is no SAN score, and there is not you become this crazy for seeing something in the game.
Those abilities are not replicated by Beast Shape, so there is no danger of insanity from assuming the form or from someone being in it's presence.
The only thing I might see happening is by taking the form of Bokrug's species, you form a link with him, allowing him to target you with Vengeful Dreams.
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Sweet so your players get to use templates like Young on their shape shifting? That's quite handy.Me being GM -
You Beast Form IV into the shape of the Great Old One's race. Congrats, you are a single slimy grub the size of someone's thumb. Now, grow for 100 million years and you can be Bokrug. Try not to get stepped on for the first 1 million years.
No, my players get to be a generic race of a creature with this spell. The generic race for almost everything Cthulhu is a grub of some sort. Only specific "Great Old Ones" (ie. ones that lasted millions and millions of years beyond the Pale) ever make it to "Godhood". The rest stay grubs and tend to eat people (again, read the mythos) or otherwise infect people until they, too, grow in power for millions of years and get both GREAT and OLD. A generic Chtulhu monster race, unto itself, is not GREAT nor OLD (many being able to be smashed to death with a shovel or other improvised weapon, as your evil GM won't allow you a real weapon in Call of Cthulhu, lol). Thus I would NOT allow the OLD template to be added, nor the GREAT template and they would be a generic Cthulhu race for Bokrug - a grub / salamander.
The amount of GMs here who are incredibly anti-player and antagonistic in their responses disgusts me. Just because someone thinks they came up with something cool, that isn't even mechanically superior to other options, you want to ruin their fun, is laughable. If I create an illusion of myself shifting into Cthulhu, would you say that he entered my mind and drove me insane? So anti-player, it's insane.
I don't agree with letting a player do it, and then making bad things happen to them. I would just say no, just like I would if a player asked something that was "out of bounds" with a wish spell. Players don't like "gotcha" moments to much. However even getting the base form of _____ is against the rules even if it is not overpowered, and from a story-line point of view would kill immersion for me.
Sometimes "no" is not just about mechanical balance.
How common such an effect would be is the determining factor in whether or not it is immersion breaking. Powerful worshipers of Bokrug (perhaps including a PC) channeling their master's power to take on a crude likeness of him to consume his enemies? No problem. Every random caster who can cast Beast Shape 4 turning into Bokrug to carry out comedy sketches? Yeah there goes immersion. It's all about context.
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What game are we playing? Can you show me the rules for a SAN score in Pathfinder?OK
Those are the rules for insanity caused by having a mental attribute drained to 0. They aren't a SAN score, and they are not NEARLY as severe as the Sanity system in CoC, or even the fright check rules in GURPS.
So keeping someone from breaking a game makes me anti-player? So be it. You never HAVE to sit at one my tables.
Besides potential oddness of an effect being used by one outside of a follower of Bokrug, how would it break the game again?
The Carrion Crown adventure path includes an (optional) sanity system.
I can't think of a single lovecraft character that has dabbled with transforming into an eldritch creature that doesn't quickly descend into madness or wasn't mad to begin with.
To be fair though, in the context of our world transformation magic itself is the equivalent of a sanity destroying revelation as the reality of the concept shatters everything we hold dear. Perhaps that has more to do with the craziness then what you are turning into :P
Umm guys. The generic form of Cthulhu is a Star Spawn. They're noted to be his same race. He is essentially a demon lord version of them similar to Pazuzu being sort of a demon lord version of vrocks. Sure it isn't an exact fit but if you're going to disallow players from being cthulhu because he's a specific creature then at least let them use the CR 20 consolidation price. As for Bokrug I'd have to think far longer on that as no other members of his race are ever noted. I'd probably allow it as is but have some consequences in game such as cultists being drawn to rumors of their god appearing and possibly Dreamland entities becoming aware of teh PCs. If the players just kill them are and done with it then fine it's over but if the PCs investigate and roll with the new story elements then their end game could very well have the polymorpher battling the genuine article before taking his place.
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That depends on how to define familiar. Could a devout follower of the old one in question be considered familiar with his god?Another thing that kills the druid thing(aside from the Beast Shap limits)
At 4th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any small or Medium animal and back again once per day. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the beast shape I spell, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with.
Any stickler DM won't just let you polymorph into just any animal, it has to be something you have some familiarity with(as decided by the DM). Just because you have read about it in a rulebook doesn't mean that you character has any clue what it is. I would never let a player whose character has no knowledge of sea creatures polymorph into a dire shark.
This effectively limits your polymorph options based on your Knowledge(Nature) skill. As a general rule of thumb, if you can't make the knowledge check to identify it and you have never seen it in person, you can't polymorph into one.
Someone that familiar would likely have ranks in the appropiate knowledge skill right? If they have enough ranks to make the check, then they have the knowledge. That is how knowledge skills work. If they haven't invested any ranks in knowledge skills, then I feel that, as a DM, I have plenty of ground to question their devoutness.
Player - I am a super devout follower of X.
GM - By devout, you mean you would give anything or do anything for them?
Player - Absolutely
GM - And By anything, that does include investing a few skills point to actually know a little bit about them, right?
Player - Uh...
To look at is another way...
Imagine you have a friend who claims to be a "huge fan" of baseball, but when you ask them questions about baseball they can't answer any questions that go beyond the basics(3 strikes, 9 innings, name of the nearest pro team, etc). Would you consider them to actually be a big fan of baseball or a poser?