This topic has been done to death over skill ranks with a Headband of Intellect but what happens to bonus spells or spell slots you've prepared if your headband gets stolen? Do you lose prepared spells? How do you determine which ones?
Pretty sure it's "player choice" provided you're losing unspent slots.
I would file this under "something you shouldn't do to a player".
That said,
Prepared Spell Retention: Once a wizard prepares a spell, it remains in his mind as a nearly cast spell until he uses the prescribed components to complete and trigger it or until he abandons it. Certain other events, such as the effects of magic items or special attacks from monsters, can wipe a prepared spell from a character's mind.
He also doesn't lose any spell slots. Once the spells are prepared they're prepared. He doesn't lose it from his mind, unless a specific affect says it does. The next time he goes to prepare spells he wont have the extra slots available though, assuming he doesn't get the item back and for 24 hours after he regains ownership (and presumably starts wearing it again).
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I would note here that "logic" says that items that take effect after being worn for 24 hours does NOT MEAN that the second they are removed you lose the permanent bonus. Yes, when you take them off, you lose the bonus. But the second you are done showering (headbands, belts, gloves, etc...), bathing (everything), going poop (belts), you still get the "worn for 24 hours" bonus. It would be silly to take that bonus away simply for mundane "losses of the item" such as mentioned above.
In the case of the headband being stolen, again, nothing notes that you "lose" anything when it is removed (other than the stats). And if you recover it within 24 hours I would definitely say that you still get the "worn for 24 bonus" and all the spells you had. So I wouldn't take them away between theft and recovery. Unless more than a day went by. But that is me.
Pretty sure it's "player choice" provided you're losing unspent slots.
Oh hey, draco18s, you responded to my thread :P. I'm in your upcoming Reign of Winter game.
Skill points, bonus spells, save boni, bonus HP, etc. are all bound to their related ability score. If you lower the ability score you lower you bonuses too and that result in a loss of bonus spells. A caster can loose his ability to cast spells if his INT/WI or CHA drops below 11!
A magic item gives you a 'permanent ability bonus'
Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.
Removing a magic item with a permanent ability bonus is the same as a permanent ability drain.
Ability Drain: Ability drain actually reduces the relevant ability score. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to lose skill points, hit points, and other bonuses.
Pretty sure it's "player choice" provided you're losing unspent slots.Oh hey, draco18s, you responded to my thread :P. I'm in your upcoming Reign of Winter game.
Remember:
Anything that looks at us funny: You really really wish it was on fire right now.
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Prepared Spell Retention: Once a wizard prepares a spell, it remains in his mind as a nearly cast spell until he uses the prescribed components to complete and trigger it or until he abandons it. Certain other events, such as the effects of magic items or special attacks from monsters, can wipe a prepared spell from a character's mind.
Wait wait wait, this doesn't look familiar to me. Where's it located? I've got some reading up to do.
I would file this under "something you shouldn't do to a player".
That said,
Prepared Spell Retention: Once a wizard prepares a spell, it remains in his mind as a nearly cast spell until he uses the prescribed components to complete and trigger it or until he abandons it. Certain other events, such as the effects of magic items or special attacks from monsters, can wipe a prepared spell from a character's mind.He also doesn't lose any spell slots. Once the spells are prepared they're prepared. He doesn't lose it from his mind, unless a specific affect says it does. The next time he goes to prepare spells he wont have the extra slots available though, assuming he doesn't get the item back and for 24 hours after he regains ownership (and presumably starts wearing it again).
Would this apply to Sorcerers (or any spontaneous caster) spell slots as well? He still has that (those) bonus spell slot(s) for the day?
And now that I think about it:
This could come up for me. I've got a long term (12+ days) buff that's indirectly granting me bonus spell slots. It's highly unlikely that it could be shut down prematurely, but it's a possibility.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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This topic has been done to death over skill ranks with a Headband of Intellect but what happens to bonus spells or spell slots you've prepared if your headband gets stolen? Do you lose prepared spells? How do you determine which ones?
I can't find anything indicating that slots or prepared spells "go away". However, your total spells per day is based partly on your casting stat. So at any given moment, if you have (for instance) 5 spells per day, it's impossible to cast a 6th spell. Having a 6th spell prepared because things were different this morning doesn't change this fact.
Wait wait wait, this doesn't look familiar to me. Where's it located? I've got some reading up to do.Prepared Spell Retention: Once a wizard prepares a spell, it remains in his mind as a nearly cast spell until he uses the prescribed components to complete and trigger it or until he abandons it. Certain other events, such as the effects of magic items or special attacks from monsters, can wipe a prepared spell from a character's mind.
In this section here.
My understanding of that paragraph is that once you have prepared your spell slots they are yours for the day. Short of specification indication that you should lose them you don't. The caveat being that if your casting stat dropped below the spells level +10 (so for instance you remove the headband and now only have 16 int you can't cast 7th level or higher slots).
Now, because I doubt they would intewntionally make prepared versus spontaneous casting different on purpose in how it reacts I think the sorcerer keeps the bonus spell slots until the next day as well.
However, the closest paragraph discussing it is:
Daily Readying of Spells: Each day, sorcerers and bards must focus their minds on the task of casting their spells. A sorcerer or bard needs 8 hours of rest (just like a wizard), after which she spends 15 minutes concentrating. (A bard must sing, recite, or play an instrument of some kind while concentrating.) During this period, the sorcerer or bard readies her mind to cast her daily allotment of spells. Without such a period to refresh herself, the character does not regain the spell slots she used up the day before.
Which doesn't have the same clear proscription against losing the slots the way the other paragraph does.
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My understanding of that paragraph is that once you have prepared your spell slots they are yours for the day. Short of specification indication that you should lose them you don't.
The fact that the prepared spells remain prepared in your mind does not prevent the possibility that you might be unable to "finish" them (cast them).
It is a rule of the game that if your spells per day is 5, you can't cast a 6th spell.
My understanding of that paragraph is that once you have prepared your spell slots they are yours for the day. Short of specification indication that you should lose them you don't.The fact that the prepared spells remain prepared in your mind does not prevent the possibility that you might be unable to "finish" them (cast them).
It is a rule of the game that if your spells per day is 5, you can't cast a 6th spell.
If that is the intention, it's certainly not intimated.
Besides which, I fall firmly back into the camp of, you simply shouldn't take a player's gear from them. Though, that is an entirely separate and non-rule issue.
That doesn't work seebs. You would lose the spells slot the next day when you reprepare spells, so the issue you're talking about doesn't exist. The next time you go to prepare the spells you can't be weaing all four (though you could manage 3, with the hand necklace thing) and so you wouldn't get the bonus slots from at least one. And, if you're not wearing them when you prepare spells you don't get them either.
Though this does have the implication that you could remove the ring of wizardry and not lose the slots immeadiately either.
Hmmm, honestly I'm not sure how it's supposed to be run.
FAQ?
Although:
First:
Wear two Rings of Spell Storing. Fill em' up. Then take them off.
Second:
Wear the TWO rings of Wizardry and prepare spells
Three:
Then wander around with a Ring of Protection and Ring of Energy Resistance worn the rest of the day. Keep the spell-storing rings with you, the Wizardry ones could stay at home.
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I think that's true for spontaneous casters. I'm not sure it's actually true for prepared casters, because they're limited at prep time, so there's no reason to have other limits, because they never have any effect.My understanding of that paragraph is that once you have prepared your spell slots they are yours for the day. Short of specification indication that you should lose them you don't.The fact that the prepared spells remain prepared in your mind does not prevent the possibility that you might be unable to "finish" them (cast them).
It is a rule of the game that if your spells per day is 5, you can't cast a 6th spell.
This is not the case; re-read the relevant parts of different classes' "Spells" class features:
A wizard can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Wizard. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).
Like other spellcasters, a sorcerer can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Sorcerer. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).
Wizard and sorcerer use the same mechanic, verbatim, except for where the sorcerer states further affirms working just like other spellcasters.
The wizard's stuff about preparing spells is in a separate paragraph that doesn't reference his daily limit at all. Both he and the sorcerer operate under the same spells-per-day mechanic, explicit in the text. The rule I bolded above does not stop being the rule when he finishes preparing spells.
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Jiggy, does your ruling about that spells per day limit get affected at all by things like Pearls of Power?
Unless you are nerfing the whole family of PoPs, they either invalidate your argument, or point to your argument needing to include things that increase your limit of spells per day.
As an example: Magus (Kensai), Int high enough to case 1st level spells, not high enough to give any bonus 1st level spells (so 11?), so he gets a single 1st level spel per day.
He casts his spell (shield, just for the sake of having a spell named, but it works for any spell), so he has used up his single 1st level spell for the day.
After the combat, he activates one of the (several) PoP1s he owns, so he regains the prepared shield spell.
Can he cast it again?
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@Rikkan - You've successfully shown that a wizard's slots per day matter at the time he prepares his spells. What you haven't shown (but seem to think you've shown) is that the per-day limit only matters during preparation.
Regardless of whether you're referring to them as "spells" or "slots", all of the pertinent rules—including the ones you referenced—consistently refer to spells/slots per day.
"Per day" is a rule.
"Per day" does not stop being a rule when you finish prepping spells.
"Per day" is a rule.
Nothing in the rules even suggests, let alone states, that "per day" only applies during preparation instead of the whole day.
"Per day" is a rule.
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EDIT: @kinevon—Pearls aren't an issue, for pretty much the reason DharTook describes: the pearl says "just as if it had not been cast". There's no issue here; pearls effectively increase your spells per day, in a (somewhat) roundabout sort of way. The stuff I've been saying in this thread doesn't change that one bit. No issue.
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Yes and preperation counts against that per day, so you're saying that if you prep spells, you can't cast any on that day?
No, that's not what I'm saying, nor does it follow from what I have said.
I would also point out: "Per day" is a rule, except it doesn't really mean "per day". It means "per a little over 8 hours", for wizards. The limit is just that you can't re-prepare spells you cast within the previous 8 hours.
No, "per day" is "per day". Casting all your spells in the morning, then resting for 8 hours, doesn't give you an additional set of spells in the evening of the same day.
It's true that spell slots used within the last 8 hours prior to preparation count against today's total, but the upper limit is still "per day" and does not reset after just "a little over 8 hours".
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"Per day" is a rule, except it doesn't really mean "per day". It means "per a little over 8 hours"No, "per day" is "per day". Casting all your spells in the morning, then resting for 8 hours, doesn't give you an additional set of spells in the evening of the same day.
Jiggy is right, it means per day.
I can't find any such thing in the rules.
Day
nounnoun: day; plural noun: days
1. a period of twenty-four hours as a unit of time, reckoned from one midnight to the next, corresponding to a rotation of the earth on its axis.
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But specific overrules general.
Every spell you haven't cast within the last 8 hours.
that's a further restriction
There is no specific overruling general.
There is a specific further restriction that you can't re-prepare slots after 8 hours, only slots that were left open at the beginning of the day's preparation period.
So. This brings up a good question:
We know that the game takes place on Galarion and not Earth or some other planet, but...that doesn't preclude other planets.
What happens if a wizard ends up on a planet with a radically different day length? For example, a planet where the sidereal day is 12 hours rather than 24.
12 hours wasn't plucked from thin air. There's a great series of books--lets see if I can spell the name right--the Quintaglio Ascension where the titular race of dinosaurs (my guess is some decendent of dromaeosaur, probably deinonychus)
Er, spoiler warning.
They live on a tidally locked moon that orbits the parent planet once every 12 hours and the average individual is awake every other night (sleeping on Even nights, so those that are awake on Odd nights are referred to as being odd (haha, get it?))
Turns out that it wasn't always that way and that the day length had been steadily increasing for millennia as the moon's orbit was decaying, but life rather than adapting to a shorter day just ended up with a slightly weird circadian rhythm that still worked out to 24 "Earth hours."
So the question is more:
Is the spell recharge based on circadian rhythm or based on planetary rotational velocity?