As written, its pretty much just making money as a soldier. Occasionally a GM might let you use the roll to do something in particular related to being a soldier.
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I'd be inclined to allow you to use it in place of knowledge checks and/or other skill checks if you could justify why I should do so, but you can hardly count on that; ask your DM if he would be inclined to go the same way.
DM: "You see a haughty noble on his steed approaching."
Soldier: "Aye, I know all sorts of these bastards from my days in the field, always thinking they know how to tell a fightin' man his business," DC 25 Soldier check instead of Knowledge Local or Nobility, "Yep that's Count Murray, and a right bastard he is I've heard."
DM: "You see a strange patch of ground ahead of you."
Soldier: Soldier check in place of Knowledge Nature/Geography, "Yep, definitely quicksand. Lost a whole battalion to it in the war. Nasty stuff, will suck ya down and hold you until Nerull comes for your sorry soul."
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Profession soldier is used a lot in the mass combat rules from Ultimate campaign.
Profession soldier is used a lot in the mass combat rules from Ultimate campaign.
Hmm... if a soldier does that, imagine what ranks in profession(Commander) can do!
Is useful in leading military units granting boons to the army you lead. A great soldier (lots of ranks) can add a number of boons that can be the critical difference in mass combat.
Given that soldiers are expected, at the barest minimum, to kill people and prevent others from getting killed, I find it hard to believe that Profession ranks are the sole or even a remotely important metric of doing one's job as a military professional.
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Profession (soldier) represents less your ability to kill on the battlefield, as it does your ability to plan war-time strategy and logistics. Knowing how to set up a defensible camp and ensure safe transport of food, water, and other necessary goods between your camp and suppliers, for example, might be governed by the skill. Not everyone knows how to do these things, after all.
Profession (soldier) represents less your ability to kill on the battlefield, as it does your ability to plan war-time strategy and logistics.
I thought it was my ability to make money from said profession, regardless of what I actually do on the job. It could be a number of things within the job though, and nothing in particular. The strength of the skill has always varied with GM for me, being used for diplomacy, perception, or any sort of small gig even. Rarely for actually just making money.
All professions can be used to make money (not really a worthwhile investment, if you ask me). However, being a sort of pseudo-knowledge skill is useful.
As a GM, I'd not let it be used in place of those skills you listed, but if applicable, a circumstance bonus could apply. Succeeding at a DC 15 Profession (soldier) check, for example, might grant a +2 bonus on your Diplomacy check versus the opposing army's commander (representing common ground shared between you two, and the mutual understanding of the consequences of failing to reach a compromise; i.e. WAR!).
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As mentioned above, while a profession (soldier) check can work to get paid, it can also work as sort of a knowledge check for things that a soldier would know, such as common military tactics and general tools of the trade. Just a few ideas off the top of my head.
Party is raiding a hobgoblin war-camp.
Soldier: Hey, Nigel, what do you know about hobgoblins?
Nigel (Knowledge-Local Check: Goblins are a sentient species) They are super tactical and obsessed with the military generally, why?
Soldier: (Profession-Soldier Check): Because their armory is a mess, things are put in such a way that no one could find them in a battle. Something doesn't make sense here . . .
Party is checking on an battalion that supposedly got slaughtered
Nigel: So the survivor said that they did a forced march from Townburg to hamletville in two days.
Soldier: (Profession-Soldier check) No way. In the summer, in this heat? With all that heavy armor and shields and carying packs? No, an army does not move that quickly, it must have been two days at least.
Party is advising the King
King: The enemy is massing on the northern and southern regions, leaving the eastern route exposed.
Soldier (Profession-Soldier Check) No, it's a trap. We'd be bottle necked in that ravine, then they could come at us from both sides, drop boulders on us, whatever. We'd be disjointed, loose communication, soldiers would break ranks, it'd be a disaster.
stuff
I like your examples/suggestions and would probably allow similar.
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Check: You can earn half your Profession check result in gold pieces per week of dedicated work. You know how to use the tools of your trade, how to perform the profession's daily tasks, how to supervise helpers, and how to handle common problems. You can also answer questions about your Profession. Basic questions are DC 10, while more complex questions are DC 15 or higher.
This isn't just the generosity of some GMs or a houserule. It's one of the RAW functions of Profession.
It creates a bit of overlap with some other skills; the most obvious one being P(Engineer) and K(Engineering). That's just how it is...
I think the issue is how vague the bolded portion is, at least to me: So can I tell you all about military command structure and procedure, but it is less clear on whether or not I could use it to know how to build a military grade road or know the names of all the high ranking military officials in the kingdom next door.
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Since there are gaps in the Knowledge skills, I tend to allow Professions to fill those gaps, using similar DCs when complex understanding is necessary. It may be house-rule, but it seems to make the game more organic.
Also, Profession (Sailor) does everything in Skulls and Shackles. Just thought I'd point it out, since I thought it was a neat mechanic to use in that path, and when I run WotR, I might allow similar things (though not as much) from Profession (Soldier).
Profession (soldier) represents less your ability to kill on the battlefield, as it does your ability to plan war-time strategy and logistics. Knowing how to set up a defensible camp and ensure safe transport of food, water, and other necessary goods between your camp and suppliers, for example, might be governed by the skill. Not everyone knows how to do these things, after all.
Indeed, and this profession can cover a lot of things that might come up during an adventurer's career, but if you really want to get a lot out of a skill, take profession: bandit. I have milked that one for all it was worth. Anything a bandit might know about, you get a roll for it. Fantastic really.
I think the issue is how vague the bolded portion is, at least to me: So can I tell you all about military command structure and procedure, but it is less clear on whether or not I could use it to know how to build a military grade road or know the names of all the high ranking military officials in the kingdom next door.
It's up to the GM.
Gaps in the rules that the GM has to fill in are not a rare thing.
If you had a massive modifier to your profession soldier, and even when you rolled well you didn't know the generals of the nearby regions, I would be surprised.
Could be really useful I think, especially for knowing the quality and quantity of other soldiers in nearby duchies, countries, etc. That could also be known by a merc though. Like knowing that the Gold cloaks are largely ceremonial (corrupt) cops compared to the battle hardened Second Sons.
That would probably be covered by Knowledge (local), too.
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Check: You can earn half your Profession check result in gold pieces per week of dedicated work. You know how to use the tools of your trade, how to perform the profession's daily tasks, how to supervise helpers, and how to handle common problems. You can also answer questions about your Profession. Basic questions are DC 10, while more complex questions are DC 15 or higher.This isn't just the generosity of some GMs or a houserule. It's one of the RAW functions of Profession.
It creates a bit of overlap with some other skills; the most obvious one being P(Engineer) and K(Engineering). That's just how it is...
Yeah, I thought the point of this thread wasn't RAW, but what SORTS of questions profession-soldier could answer. Also, house rule, I'd allow questions to go higher than DC 15.
Nigel: The X army just invaded Y!
Soldier(profession-soldier check, DC 25) no, the X army takes great pride in their helmet design. Wonderfully made bird emblem on the crown of the helmet. Look at this one, it's all slapdash. Someone is setting up X.
Dot.
I have read a few aps, and whenever the writer needs a general for an army, they pretty much all use profession(Soldier) as the way to do checks for it
Do you do it better if you have Profession(General)?
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I have read a few aps, and whenever the writer needs a general for an army, they pretty much all use profession(Soldier) as the way to do checks for itDo you do it better if you have Profession(General)?
There are already so many skills out there that pathfinder seems to try and condense them down in the profession category. For example, you use profession-sailor if you are a pirate, profession-soldier for any military commander, profession-farmer if you are a cattle rancher, etc. Heck, profession-cook covers everything from being a greasy spoon slop-slinger to the head chef for royalty.
There are already so many skills out there that pathfinder seems to try and condense them down in the profession category.I have read a few aps, and whenever the writer needs a general for an army, they pretty much all use profession(Soldier) as the way to do checks for itDo you do it better if you have Profession(General)?
Was humor. You can list anything in the craft or profession box.
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General is a rank. I don't think they'd have a separate Profession for (general), (lieutenant), (captain), etc. It's all covered by (soldier).
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Profession soldier is used a lot in the mass combat rules from Ultimate campaign.Hmm... if a soldier does that, imagine what ranks in profession(Commander) can do!
Ranks in Profession (Commander) won't get you any skills. Officer's don't know how to do anything without their enlisted. Their useless. lol
I think the issue is how vague the bolded portion is, at least to me: So can I tell you all about military command structure and procedure, but it is less clear on whether or not I could use it to know how to build a military grade road or know the names of all the high ranking military officials in the kingdom next door.It's up to the GM.
Gaps in the rules that the GM has to fill in are not a rare thing.
Things in the rules are usually at least slightly more unambiguous than "it does stuff," which is about as much as profession says. If the rules make it so something is strictly up to houserules to determine what it can do then I would say it's a pretty poor rule in general.
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Copied from another thread:
Profession: Soldier is useful for more than mass combat and digging latrines; it's also maintenance of armour and weapons, understanding how the military operates (and so where the guards will be when), knowledge of siege machinery and fortifications, cadging rations and equipment off the quartermaster, bluffing the officer of the watch, recognising regimental uniforms, acting like a soldier to blend in, estimating troop numbers based on campfires, giving orders to NPCs and a host of other things. There's a whole lot more there than hitting people with a sword.
It's one of the more useful Professions for a PC.
Hot damn it is good.
Take bandit as well and you are in the know.
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What profession might be useful for nobles?I usually go with Profession (Ruler). Surprisingly handy if ruling things or dealing with rulers ever comes up.
And if you ever get overthrown you could be a ruler on the side and make like 15-20 gold per week doing it!
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And if you ever get overthrown you could be a ruler on the side and make like 15-20 gold per week doing it!What profession might be useful for nobles?I usually go with Profession (Ruler). Surprisingly handy if ruling things or dealing with rulers ever comes up.
Totally! Administration skills are handy and marketable, as is knowledge of the local powers that be.
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In truth, I think its not just the ranks in Profession: Soldier for the leader that matters. I think it's vitally important to know the ranks in Profession:Solider of the actual combat unit. A highly trained elite force (lots of ranks in the skill) is likely to be more combat effective and thus, have more "combat boons."
Combination of the two, I should think.
The individual soldiers need to -- as in, "are more effective if they" -- know how to build effective shelters for the night so they can be better rested (those tents don't put themselves up), pack their loads so they're more comfortable to carry ("you're carrying too much weight -- throw the joker out of your deck of cards!"), wash their socks under field conditions so they don't get trench foot, et cetera.
The commander needs to know how far he can expect the soldiers to be able to march, how many bolts he needs to issue to each person on a day-to-day basis ("You're trigger-happy, Jonesy!"), how to respond to and resolve the complaints of the men, and so forth.
A good commander can work with a bunch of raw recruits and still have them be effective. Conversely, a good group of troops can make a raw ensign look good.
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Of the examples listed in the skill description, I think Barrister may be the best for a noble, for familiarity with your country's legal system.
But it depends on the type of noble you are. Architect, Engineer, Gambler, Librarian, Merchant, Scribe, maybe even Gardener or Herbalist (or others) may be appropriate given the specific noble's interests and duties.
Given that soldiers are expected, at the barest minimum, to kill people and prevent others from getting killed, I find it hard to believe that Profession ranks are the sole or even a remotely important metric of doing one's job as a military professional.
Actually, most of a soldier's job isn't on the battle field. It is drill, uniform maintenance, digging latrines, setting up camp, standing watch, etc.
The BAB and proficiencies the Warrior class gets are sufficient to represent "expected to kill people and prevent from getting killed."
Profession- Soldier, to me, is about all the other things you do 90% of the time.
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I have had characters use Profession (Mercenary) instead of Profession (Soldier). That is because I think that the mercenary outlook is more along the lines of what the average adventuring group does than that of the soldier. The soldier is arguably somebody who would have been serving in a long standing professional force with a relatively set command structure, regular pay and supplies largely provided by the quartermaster.
A mercenary would be more used to dealing with thrown together ad hoc units that usually would only remain in existence for short periods of time or have large turnover rates from campaign to campaign. A mercenary would be more used to dealing with problems caused by pay being in arrears and having to scrounge for supplies. Last but not least, a mercenary would arguably have a better chance of picking up short term gigs on the side than a professional soldier who would arguably be looking for more of a long term commitment.
Just my two copper pieces.
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I think the issue is how vague the bolded portion is, at least to me: So can I tell you all about military command structure and procedure, but it is less clear on whether or not I could use it to know how to build a military grade road or know the names of all the high ranking military officials in the kingdom next door.It's up to the GM.
Gaps in the rules that the GM has to fill in are not a rare thing.
It's kind of a necessary thing, really. Tabletop RPGs have such unbounded scopes that it's pretty much impossible for any rule set to cover every eventuality.
For profession skills, if it seems pretty reasonable that a character with Profession (x) would have special insight into the question because of their skill in X, then consider allowing the use of the profession skill as an alternative to other skills.
Knowledge (Geography) is a great skill for knowing the lay of the land which may help your soldiers pick the most defensible ground. But a skilled soldier can probably assess that too and may know examples of how it was used in the past (which a character with Knowledge (History) might know too). I'd consider casting the geographer's results in more formal style than a soldier's which I would make more colloquial.
Ultimately, skills can overlap a great deal in PF - this is a good thing because it means PCs have multiple avenues to get to relevant information and keep a good story going rather than run into dead ends or troughs of indecision.