Also, I'm a firm believer that the comic 'Flashpoint ripple' going BACK in time before the change... is dumbest thing I ever read. I hope that never gets mentioned in books or shows again.
I don't care what Alex Kurtzman, Roberto Orci or J.J. Abrams say, that ripple effect is really the only way to explain certain elements of the current Star Trek movie franchise. So many things are so different that the temporal disruption had to have rippled backward from 2233.
yep... don't buy it. It's a convienent if lazy way to explain continuity errors sure, but time should be a series of cause and effects. That's what makes time travel stories fun. If I go back in time to last Tuesday to pay my electric bill on time... Abraham Lincoln still gets shot in 1865.
The ripples described here... isn't changing history, it's moving to one of the 'infinite earths'... and wasn't actually time travel at all. The butterfly flapping its wing and causing a tsunami on the other side of the world... that's just poor storytelling.
Now a story that THINKS it's traveling through time, but actually visiting alternate worlds... that has potential. Actually that sounds kind of familiar... that may have already been written...
But it's especially garbage when dealing with Flashpoint. Barry's mother wasn't meant to die. Zoom went back and changed time... Barry went back and stopped him from changing time. He didn't change anything himself, and his action actually preserved the timeline... the ripples was just contradictory to everything DC has done for decades. Horrible story.
All I know is if I could go back in time, I'd totally screw up the timeline in major ways.
Also butterfly effects might still happen if we do things differently.
Maybe not as far into the past but still!
|
Well, that was....interesting.
(1) Please tell me the writers will stop doing whatever drugs they're doing in order to creat the most convoluted, acid trip storyline imaginable.
(2) Please tell me they aren't going down the road of the Philospher's Stone/Speed Force/Savitar (since they all seem to be inextricably linked) being the source of all meta humans.
(3) Speaking of (2), please tell me the Philosopher's Stone isn't Savitar's heart, or some stupid s+@# like that.
Wally is still annoying. Of course he's faster than Barry. Isn't everybody? At least they're writing him like he just enjoys being a speedster. Reminds me of the original Wally.
Loved seeing Jay again. All his words of wisdom were cool as s!%#. Too bad they made him get his ass kicked.
I loved some of the easter eggs: Julian's full name being Julian Albert Desmond was a nice nod to the original Alchemy. And the street Barry sees in the future was a nice nod to Carmine Infantino.
I'm glad they didn't regress further down the Cisco-is-mad-at-Barry road. That would have been idiotic, considering the epiphany Cisco had in the Invasion rip-off. It's nice, though, to see that Barry isn't the only member of Team Flash (how I hate that concept) to make stupid decisions based on being an emotional weakling.
All in all, this may be the season that gets me to stop watching. Sad to say, but the story line has become kind of a joke.
(1) Please tell me the writers...
(2) Please tell me...source of all meta humans.
Wally is...faster than Barry.
(1) Here's hoping.
(2) No reason to think so. They've only suggested it was the first object to do that. The particle accelerator was another, unrelated, one.
(3) Assumes facts not in evidence. In two different episodes, Wally has been clocked as "faster than Barry was at this point in his training." No one has yet said that Wally is faster than Barry is now, nor is it certain he ever will be. He might accelerate more quickly and still not be able to match Barry's top speed.
<called the 3 flash team even though it wasn't all 3 at once I feel it still counts.>
Although wouldn't all the speedsters technically be slower because there all together. more of them drawing off energy from the speed force. I suppose that is a comic idea that is not established in the show :(.
Maybe with the threat to iris Barry will finally be motivated to get the lead out.
My understanding,
Savitar, some time in the past (probably) encounters a Future Barry Allen (probably the same one that made the "Don't Trust me cause I screwed up time" memo to Rip Hunter), who then imprisons him. Why? Probably because Savitar is a dick. He might be around a while but I think what happened was Barry LOCKED him in the Speed Force. The Stone some how manages to make strong enough connections to weaken it so he can create openings. It's also why Savitar is fast, he's now apart of the Speed Force, making rifts to go from a to b.
His prophecy thingie worries me because if there is someone that's going to betray them, I keeping thinking it MIGHT be Wally. I mean how else are they going to get Savitar back?
So..yeah. My two cents.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I agree with Seitz When it comes to the speedsters you can't think of time as linear for them.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I like how they handled the "Julian is Alchemy" situation.
We all knew it pretty much from the begining of the season, but this resolves that in a way that we get to keep Julian now that it's been revealled.
Mainly because I think Barry needs someone around him that doesn't like him and will call him an idiot when he needs to hear it. Julian is really good at that.
Kind of type cast Julian though didn't they?
|
|
(3) Assumes facts not in evidence. In two different episodes, Wally has been clocked as "faster than Barry was at this point in his training." No one has yet said that Wally is faster than Barry is now, nor is it certain he ever will be. He might accelerate more quickly and still not be able to match Barry's top speed.
Apparently, I must do better about representing my sarcasm. Although, in all honesty, it's easy to believe Wally is faster, since the writer's seem to make everyone with speed powers (or at least all the villains) faster than Barry.
|
|
I like how they handled the "Julian is Alchemy" situation.
We all knew it pretty much from the begining of the season, but this resolves that in a way that we get to keep Julian now that it's been revealled.
Mainly because I think Barry needs someone around him that doesn't like him and will call him an idiot when he needs to hear it. Julian is really good at that.
Indeed, although I wonder if Tom Felton is going to stick around, and for how long.
Almost forgot - I loved the scene with Mark Hamill as Trickster. That was f%#%ing cool.
Oh my have you not seen the other episodes with him as trickster?
|
|
Almost forgot - I loved the scene with Mark Hamill as Trickster. That was f%#%ing cool.Oh my have you not seen the other episodes with him as trickster?
Yes, but that was him as the Trickster on Barry Earth. This was him sort of reprising his role from the old 90's Flash with John Wesley Shipp as Barry, which was a nice homage to that original series.
|
Although, in all honesty, it's easy to believe Wally is faster, since the writer's seem to make everyone with speed powers (or at least all the villains) faster than Barry.
It seemed pretty clear that 'The Rival' was slower than Barry... and if Earth-3 Flash's statements about 'you are the only one fast enough to challenge him' are correct then that should make 'current Barry' the fastest speedster OTHER than Savitar in every timeline of every world in the multiverse.
Well, that was....interesting.
** spoiler omitted **
Also, am I the only one disappointed that we didn't see more of Mark Hamill? I know he's supposedly occupied with filming another movie or something, but we only get maybe 2 minutes of Trickstery goodness? Although I did love the nod back to the original 1990 Flash show.
Maybe there is an "Earth-90" where Barry Allen is older and looks like his Dad now? ;)
|
|
** spoiler omitted **Well, that was....interesting.
** spoiler omitted **
Good point. I hadn't even considered the similarity in motivations. Yet another point on which the writer's show a lack of imagination. They'd have done better just sticking with the...
Of course, another thought which just occurred to me is that....
Thankfully, they ended the episode with Joe, Iris, & Company finally showing support for Wally as Kid Flash. Otherwise I'd have thought they'd use Wally for this, with the continued frustration and anger over opposition to him being a hero turning him down the dark road.
Been thinking over when Savitar called HR the "fake Wells"
Remember that Face changing gizmo HR showed them all so he could go outside and not get arrested.
What if he was really just turning it off?
|
|
It's always been a problem in comics and outside of them. How to properly write someone like the Flash imo. To be honest he should be unstoppable or damn close. Which would be boring. So they need to tone down what the Flash is able to do. Instead of showcasing what he really can do. I still remember a scene in Marvel zombies where as soon as Quicksilver is infected and turned. It was all over for the world. Within minutes if not mere seconds. He had infected every superhero/villain all over the world. How does one stop a speedster zombie.
Here is a example of what the Flash can do if he ever goes all out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53OyPYa7SEI
While were at if Superman goes all out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwU0QkcrNVQ
Memorax,
That's why cartoons don't worry about FXs budgets. I think CW does simply because doing it THAT fast makes people go "Why didn't you do this earlier?!"
Feral,
Well seems like and actually are, are two different things. I mean I doubt Barry would have gotten burned by the fire.
Vid,
Glad you agree with me.
As for Julian, I figured it would be much like his comic book self. I'm glad they did play with it awhile.
My MAJOR gripe is reserved for the Philospher's Stone. Making metas?! As opposed to just transmuting? What it is about the CW and transmutation? Did Karzoug come by one day and smite the writing staff?
|
|
Barry gets hit by ordinary things all the time. Do you remember the time he struggled to overcome Heatwave and Captain Cold - normal guys with guns.
Feral,
Yep. I get that but that's because apparently people like to see fire and cold based villains.
Been thinking over when Savitar called HR the "fake Wells"
Remember that Face changing gizmo HR showed them all so he could go outside and not get arrested.
What if he was really just turning it off?
I think he meant it in more of a figurative sense in that he just doesn't stand up in caliber to the original Wells of Barry's World, even if he is a dimensional analogue.
Kind of how like alternate universe Lister looks down on Real Lister in Red Dwarf.
Drah is right, I don't think he views Earth-19 Wells as on the same caliber as other Wells.
Drah is right, I don't think he views Earth-19 Wells as on the same caliber as other Wells.
Which puts him of the same opinion as everyone else on earth-1... HR included!
I don't follow Phantom but okay!
I don't follow Phantom but okay!
Really? The whole 'theme' of HR is about how useless he is and how he can prove his worth or else he's getting shipped back to his own earth. Even HR himself points out he's an idea man and not qualified for what they look for in a 'Harrison Wells'....
So yeah, 'Fake Wells' is a pretty standard opinion amongst everyone right now.
|
|
And, of course, he'll eventually prove his worth. Then he'll have to go back to his own earth, or maybe get killed, and next season we'll have a new Wells.
It's amazing that, for all the writers lack of imagination when it comes to every Big Bad being a speedster, they've so far had zero difficulty coming up with new versions of Wells.
Now I have to wonder - much as they've shown every earth to have a Big Belly Burger, does every earth have a Harrison Wells? Are they both a multiversal constant?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A-zombie,
Well considering HR said it himself "Some things are multiversal." So I'd say...yes.
Phantom,
Thanks for clarifying that.
Also I'm in agreement that I wish they'd stop using evil speedsters as main villains. Gorilla Grodd folks! That's a villain!
Seems there is a rumor floating around that HR is Abra Kadabra. Honestly I could kind of see that but I'm thinking just rumor for now
Yeah but do we really need HR to always turn into a villain it would get so predictable. Oh a new Harrison wells guess we know who the surprise villain will be this time.
Hey, to be fair, Barry still is technically the fastest MAN alive. Jesse's a woman, Wally's a boy, and Savitar isn't even human!
Not sure Barry is faster than Jay Garrick, and he certainly isn't faster than Eobard Thawne -- men, both of them.
I think Jay has explicitly stated that Barry is faster, and Thawne is a living plot hole rather than a man, so we're covered there too.
Easy for me to lose track. Despite their relative experience, I feel like Barry should be faster than Jay, but just recently we had him (intentionally) trailing behind Jay to borrow some of his speed in order to toss the Philosopher's Stone into the speed dimension. Nor am I certain they've been 100% consistent about anyone's max speed. They all move at the speed the plot requires.
And BTW, did it never occur to anyone on that team do seal the stone box in lead? Put it in a barrel of concrete? Wrap it in duct tape? It's dumb leaving it in a state where anyone can open it.
|
|
And BTW, did it never occur to anyone on that team do seal the stone box in lead? Put it in a barrel of concrete? Wrap it in duct tape? It's dumb leaving it in a state where anyone can open it.
Indeed. Though I can see why Hollywood typically avoids mention of duct tape. Its powers and capabilities are far too great to be trifled with.
And BTW, did it never occur to anyone on that team do seal the stone box in lead? Put it in a barrel of concrete? Wrap it in duct tape? It's dumb leaving it in a state where anyone can open it.
Presumbably because none of the above would stop Savitar from getting it.
Drah is probably right. I mean if he can some how come back from the Speed Force (even before the stone got opened a little) it's possible he can overcome the power of duct tape.
I'm not talking about lead/concrete/duct tape keeping Savitar from opening the box. I'm talking about an ordinary human finding an opening it, this making everything that much easier for Savitar.
Opening the box let Savitar out. At least twice. Closing it sent him away. It should have occurred to at least one person on Team Flash that if opening the box is a Bad Thing, then preventing the box from being easily opened by any random passerby would be a Good Thing. Nope. The lid remains to be flipped open by whoever picks it up.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Well They could Bring super girl in on it go to a universe with no population and plant that thing deep under earth#-X. I may or may not have done something similar in a DnD campaign to an evil artifact. minus the super girl of course.
Vid,
This assumes Savitar won't pull the same kind of trick on her that he did Cisco and Julian. But I do agree it would prevent him from getting around easier.
Vid,
This assumes Savitar won't pull the same kind of trick on her that he did Cisco and Julian. But I do agree it would prevent him from getting around easier.
Uggg... she's got a whole planet of dead folk to tempt her into doing something stupid...
Easy for me to lose track. Despite their relative experience, I feel like Barry should be faster than Jay, but just recently we had him (intentionally) trailing behind Jay to borrow some of his speed in order to toss the Philosopher's Stone into the speed dimension. Nor am I certain they've been 100% consistent about anyone's max speed. They all move at the speed the plot requires.
Barry IS normally faster than Jay but he wasn't fast enough for the task. So it would make sense that he'd tap into Jay's speedforce to push beyond his normal max.
Presumably he was trailing behind Jay for the same reason race car drivers tag behind a leader until it's the right time to make their move.
Yeah, Barry's spent three seasons learning tricks of speed from Thawne and Zoom and Jay... Every Season he's faster and Faster.
There's been no reason to assume that E3 Jay has the training that Barry does. Right now I don't even see Thawne as being faster than Barry. I don't see him as much SLOWER either... but probably not FASTER.. He may have a few more tricks up his sleeve.. but between that new speed gadget added to Barry's symbol...and his trip to the speed force and back... and the CONSTANT breaking the time barrier... I don't see any reason to Assume Jay is faster then him.
All I know is Thawne being a LoD is way cooler than him being a henchman.
Also I think this is the first time in recent memory I can remember ANY of the DC super villains (the major ones anyway) having a Speedster on their roster, much less a major role. It's always been Lex or Brainiac Gorilla Grodd, or even Despero. Never Eobard Thawne or even Hunter Zolomon.