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Hi!
After searching for an answer here and on your friendly Search Engine (don't be evil), i come here and ask :)
I've a problem understanding specific Magic Item Creating Rules.
I've looked here already: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items#TOC-Magic-Item-Creation but the table "Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values" gives me headaches.
How do i calculate this:
"Charges per day" - "Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)"
And how do i calculate the Base Price here and where does it come from ?
"Charged (50 charges)" - "1/2 unlimited use base price"
I think this here is the "Unlimited Use" which was spoken of in the table somewhere?)
"Use-activated or continuous" - "Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp2"
So, for an Example:
A Cleric wants to put a "CLW" on his Breastplate and thinks about different methods of activation and resulting costs:
- Charges per Day
- Charged with 50 Charges (rechargeable from himself - and how?)
- Once per Day (or several times per Day) per Command Word.
- Action triggered (if i fall below 1 HP, cast CLW on myself).
What i wanted to know is not only how much it costs (Casterlevel 1), but also how to calculate it.
Regards, Calimar_T.
Firstly, be really, really, REALLY careful about infinite cure abilities. I wouldn't allow one in my game, because they can eliminate one of the resource recovery measures that encounters are balanced around (hit points).
Also, the table is the last method for pricing an item, not the first. Only use it if all other pricing methods fail to achieve a reasonable result.
With that out of the way...
Charges per day: divide the price otherwise calculated by 5, and multiply by the number of charges per day. Yes, an item usable more than 5 times per day costs more than an item with unlimited uses.
The "unlimited use" options are Command Word Activated and Use-activated or continuous: those are the base prices to be used for the "50 charges" option. Which, by the way, cannot normally be recharged (but if it can, look at Staff pricing for guidelines).
So, assuming you relent (please don't!) and allow this:
Charges per day: command word activated, 1,800 x 1 x 1 = 1,800. 1/day = 1,800 x 1 / 5 = 360. Multiply this by the number of uses per day.
50 charges only: command word activated, 1,800 x 1 x 1 = 1,800. 50 charges = 1,800 / 2 = 900.
This can really only be command word activated, because if it continuous, it would never actually trigger. Well, not without a triggering method, which brings me to:
Contingent on circumstance: contingency spell, continuous: 6 x 11 x 2,000 / 2 = 132,000 plus command activated (by the contingency) cure light wounds at 1,800 = 133,800.
For a rechargeable (staff-like) effect, I would start with staff pricing (800 x 1 x 1) with 10 charges, then add around 50% for it not actually being a staff. So, 1,200, 10 charges, may recharge 1 charge per day by casting CLW into the item.
Just to reiterate: these are the calculations to use if you use the table. These are also undoubtedly unbalanced (waaaaaay too cheap for the most part). Note the Determination armour special ability (APG) does Breath of Life no more than 1/day for 30,000 gp. As a CL 10 effect, this seems to be working on around 3,000 gp x CL x Spell level. (3,000 x 10 x 5 / 5). A CLW version would cost a mere 600gp.
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Ok, first, you should be very careful about custom items until you're quite familiar with the Pathfinder system. It's perfectly okay to restrict players to creating item from the book only.
Second, if you're going to go with a custom item, the first rule of pricing is to compare the proposed item to an already existing one. The table exists as a last resort. Many items will end up drasticlaly undepriced when created using the table.
Last, some "casts a spell" type items send up warning flags to experienced GMs, and cure light wounds is one of those spells.
That having been said, let's see what you've got here:
First, the cleric wants to enchant his armor with a spell. Looks to me like the easiest way to do this would be to make the armor spell storing:
Spell Storing
Price +1 bonus; Aura strong evocation; CL 12th; Weight —
This armor allows a spellcaster to store a single touch spell of up to 3rd level in it. Anytime a creature hits the wearer with a melee attack or melee touch attack, the armor can cast the spell on that creature as a swift action if the wearer desires. Once the spell has been cast from the armor, a spellcaster can cast any other targeted touch spell of up to 3rd level into it. The armor magically imparts to the wielder the name of the spell currently stored within it. A randomly rolled suit of spell storing armor has a 50% chance to have a spell stored in it already. Spell storing armor emits a strong aura of the evocation school, plus the aura of the stored spell.
Construction Requirements
Cost +1 bonus
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must be a caster of at least 12th level
That +1 armor ability can let the cleric store a casting of any cure spell up to 3rd level for use on himself or others.
I can try to cost up your proposals if you like.
For a rechargeable (staff-like) effect, I would start with staff pricing (800 x 1 x 1) with 10 charges, then add around 50% for it not actually being a staff. So, 1,200, 10 charges, may recharge 1 charge per day by casting CLW into the item.
Don't forget staves have a minimum caster level of 8, so the cost in this case would be 800*1*8 = 6400 gold base +50%.
First, let me start saying this, before someone else does (EDIT: too late, four people already did):
The table are guidelines, the GM doesnt need to accept anything the player wants to do, as they will usually try to get the cheaper and stronger version of already existing items. So be warned.
"Charges per day" - "Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)"
Its quite simple actually, but they worded it in a weird way.
Do this: divide the price by 5, then multiply by the number of charges the item will have.
Ex: Item costs 2000 gp. We want it with 3 charges.
2000/5 = 400
400 * 3 = 1200 gp.
And how do i calculate the Base Price here and where does it come from ?
"Charged (50 charges)" - "1/2 unlimited use base price"
The base price is given on the table, each kind of magic property has a small formula (Ex: a +1 weapon is bonus squared x 2000 gp, that is the Base Price. But not all of them are coverered, so the gm has the final word on what can and cant be done.
- Action triggered (if i fall below 1 HP, cast CLW on myself).
He would need to cast the contingency spell, the pricing formula would be much higher.
Also be warned about players trying to use Craft Wondrous Items to craft items similar to potions or wands, they will try to.
As a tip, do not, ever allow unlimited items. If the player wants to make something similar to something that already exists, tell him to do the existing item. If there isnt one, find something similar to what he wants. Then, finally, if you cant find it, go after the table at the end.
Also, he cannot make "unlimited" instantaneous spells items, they must have charges per day or 50 charges (like a wand).
Don't forget staves have a minimum caster level of 8, so the cost in this case would be 800*1*8 = 6400 gold base +50%.
For a rechargeable (staff-like) effect, I would start with staff pricing (800 x 1 x 1) with 10 charges, then add around 50% for it not actually being a staff. So, 1,200, 10 charges, may recharge 1 charge per day by casting CLW into the item.
Ah, thank you. Been so long since anyone at my table even thought of crafting a staff.
Some further thoughts:
It's a little callous and distrusting, but as a GM, the very first thought through your mind about custom items (except simple to calculate nonstandard ones like a belt that adds +6 Con and +2 Str) should be "Nope. What shenanigans are you trying to pull?"
Or the alternative: if this item is so obvious, why doesn't it already exist?
if this item is so obvious, why doesn't it already exist?
This is good advice.
I ask my player about how his character thought about such item, as he has never seen anything like that so far in his life, did he study it in some library, did someone teach him, did he make similar items before and thought about a way to improve them?
The answer is most likely "no".
As it should be, because his character has no knowledge about what is a "core rulebook".
The first thing to keep in mind is that the charts and formulas are guidelines not hard, fast rules on how to construct every item imaginable. It becomes an art more than a science and it will always require DM approval.
Step one should always be to look for an item that is comparable to what you want to make and work from there.
Also Charges per Day and Charges are two totally different things and usually do not come into play on the same item. Charges per Day would be if it gives you an ability a certain number of times per day and every morning, these charges reset, like a Cape of the Mountebank that lets you Dimension Door once per day. The Charges are like in a wand and to answer one of your other questions, they canNOT be recharged. Once the 50 charges are expended, then it is a worthless stick or whatever. Of course you could pay to have that item "re-enchanted" but it would be the same cost as making it from scratch.
So, if you want to construct an item that allows you to cast Cure Light Wounds 3 times per day as a 1st level caster, then I would start by defining it. I would call this a "Command Word" item so it would be Spell Level x Caster Level x 1800gp or 1800gp (1 x 1 x 1800gp). Then I divide 5 by the number of charges per day, 3, to get 1.67 and then divide 1800gp by 1.67 for 1078gp value. Depending on what you enchant to make this, you could also have to include costs for adding additional effects to an item that occupies a specific slot on the body. This is usually a 50% increase so it could raise the value to 1617gp (half that to craft it).
Once per day would be 360gp (1 x 1 x 1800gp divided by 5) or 540gp for 50% more increase.
To craft it with a set 50 charges then it would be half of the 1800gp or 900gp and once the 50 charges are gone, they are gone. You could, of course, spend another 900gp to have it re-enchanted with 50 charges. Again, a DM could say that it is more convenient to have it in a breastplate than a wand so it will be 50% more in value or 1350gp. I would rule it the latter way myself.
There is no set way to make something contingent on a set of circumstances apart from using the Contingency spell. That would be in the neighborhood of 118,800gp or so (11 x 6 x 1800gp) plus the cost of the Cure Light Wounds but as a DM I might throw that in for free with the Contingency casting.
So, it is an art and requires DM consent, but hopefully the calculations make sense.
This can really only be command word activated, because if it continuous, it would never actually trigger. Well, not without a triggering method, which brings me to:
Contingent on circumstance: contingency spell, continuous: 6 x 11 x 2,000 / 2 = 132,000 plus command activated (by the contingency) cure light wounds at 1,800 = 133,800.
I also considered putting this in as a Use-Activated/Continuous Item but then you have to follow the footnote too and divide the value by 1/2 for a 24 hour or greater duration spell like Contingency. That would make it 67,800gp.
I also considered putting this in as a Use-Activated/Continuous Item but then you have to follow the footnote too and divide the value by 1/2 for a 24 hour or greater duration spell like Contingency. That would make it 67,800gp.This can really only be command word activated, because if it continuous, it would never actually trigger. Well, not without a triggering method, which brings me to:
Contingent on circumstance: contingency spell, continuous: 6 x 11 x 2,000 / 2 = 132,000 plus command activated (by the contingency) cure light wounds at 1,800 = 133,800.
Silly Chem. You'll notice I included the /2 in the write-up, then failed to apply it to the total.
Hi!
After searching for an answer here and on your friendly Search Engine (don't be evil), i come here and ask :)
I've a problem understanding specific Magic Item Creating Rules.
I've looked here already: Magic Item Creation but the table "Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values" gives me headaches.
How do i calculate this:
"Charges per day" - "Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)"
Think of it this way: Charges per day assumes 5, pro-rate if different.
And how do i calculate the Base Price here and where does it come from ?
Depending on which line you use, you are given a formula to follow. That is the base price.
"Charged (50 charges)" - "1/2 unlimited use base price"
I think this here is the "Unlimited Use" which was spoken of in the table somewhere?)
"Use-activated or continuous" - "Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp2"So, for an Example:
A Cleric wants to put a "CLW" on his Breastplate and thinks about different methods of activation and resulting costs:
- Charges per Day
Formula is Command Word with Charges per Day modifier:
[1 (spell level) * 1 (caster level) * 1,800 gp ] / [ 5 / 1 (cpd) ] = 360 gp 1/day[1 (spell level) * 1 (caster level) * 1,800 gp ] / [ 5 / 2 (cpd) ] = 720 gp 2/day
[1 (spell level) * 1 (caster level) * 1,800 gp ] / [ 5 / 3 (cpd) ] = 1,080 gp 3/day
- Charged with 50 Charges (rechargeable from himself - and how?)
Default activation is Command word
Modified by Charged:[1 (spell level) * 1 (caster level) * 1,800 gp ] * [ 1/2 ] = 900 gp
usable 50 times. Not rechargeable without investment. Recharging cost the same as putting in the charges into it in the first place. As GM, you decide minimum recharge amount, if even allowed. Cheaper to make the wand.
- Once per Day (or several times per Day) per Command Word.
This is the same as Charges per Day above.
- Action triggered (if i fall below 1 HP, cast CLW on myself).
This one is special, as it saves you an action, especially if you don't have one to use. There are some items that do this, but the cheap ones tend to expend their magic when they activate in this way. Others only activate this way and don't allow you to activate any other way. So if you made a 1/day CLW that triggers on <0HP, it would be 360 and only trigger when <0HP and only 1/day. You could not trigger it manually at all. However, you would be justified in increasing the price because of the saved action.
What i wanted to know is not only how much it costs (Casterlevel 1), but also how to calculate it.
Regards, Calimar_T.
Remember, the formulas are easy, but the LAST way to price. The best price is where if you have X gp, you have a hard time deciding which item you want. If you would always buy a particular item, then it is probably under priced. If you would never buy an item, it is probably over priced.
For unlimited use, you should compare to something like the Pearly White Spindle Ioun Stone [costs 20,000 gp and automatically regenerates 6 HP / hour]. Getting unlimited use CLW is very expensive as it gives ~5.5 HP / round. That is almost 600 times as fast.
/cevah
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I've a problem understanding specific Magic Item Creating Rules.
What i wanted to know is not only how much it costs (Casterlevel 1), but also how to calculate it.
It seems because you are not reading the rules.
There are three rules in making items:
1) If the item has a similar item, price like it did. So Bracers of Armor +3 are priced like Bracers of Armor +4.
2) If the item has a similar power item, price like it did. So Ring of Regeneration can heal so many HP per hour, so a command word activated item that can heal double that is more powerful and should cost more than the Ring of Regeneration.
3) If there is no similar item and no item of similar power, then unfortunately you need to look at these formulas and say "is this a good price? Too High? Too Low?" For example the Ring of Invisibility is nearly double what it should be because the formulas would under price it and once done with the formulas the developers said "too cheap." There has even been articles about the ring of invisibility and why the first rule of item creation is "don't use the formulas".