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Aid Other Grapple + Readied actions to attack when she tries to cast a spell (and have one ready an action when she tries to cast a second spell) would decimate spell caster in a fight with 6 pit fiends O.o.
Though a freedom of movement spell would negate this if it were up before the fiends were grappled, or the freedom domain ability...
My idea is some sort of teleportation ban effect (I think there's a spell that locks teleportation in an area). Make a pool of acid, and finally conjure up force walls to contain the acid and victim.
CR 25 - # of creatures - creature name
CR 25 — 06 — Pleroma, Aeon
CR 25 — 06 — Draconal, Agathion
CR 25 — 08 — Star, Archon
CR 25 — 12 — Brijidine, Azata
CR 25 — 16 — Astradaemon, Daemon
CR 25 — 06 — Olethradaemon, Daemon
CR 25 — 12 — Purodaemon, Daemon
CR 25 — 08 — Vrolikia, Demon
CR 25 — 08 — Immolation, Devil
CR 25 — 12 — Crystal Primal Dragon, Great Wyrm
CR 25 — 03 — Umbral Primal Dragon, Great Wyrm
CR 25 — 06 — Lhaskharut, Inevitable
CR 25 — 02 — Jabberwock (twist: jabberwock one: eye beams use force damage; immune to force damage, resist fire 30)(jabberwock two: eye beams use light; immune blindness, light based damage, resist fire 30)
CR 25 — 04 — Mu Spore
CR 25 — 12 — Night-Crawler, Nightshade
CR 25 — 06 — Night-wave, Nightshade
CR 25 — 16 — Keketar, Protean
CR 25 — 06 — Iathavos, Qlippoth
CR 25 — 03 — Ravener
CR 25 — 08 — Sard
CR 25 — 12 — Thrasfyr
CR 25 — 04 — Elysian Titan
CR 25 — 03 — Thanatotie Titan
CR 25 — 12 — Xacarba (Twist: No information can be gathered upon them; because of their low standard CR; apply the advanced template to the creatures twice and the alchemically quickened template)
Wonderful submissions thus far though. I also apologize if I come off like a jack-a** when I respond with suggestions. I do not mean to, I just wish to be constructive in the development of this thread.
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Hey Shasf, I don't think simply multiplying the number of monsters is the right way to go, I can't think of a single character that can handle 6 Pit Fiends other than that oracle that can defeat 6 pit fiends (Though I'm sure that there's a way to get 6 wishes that will destroy the oracle). Are we creating impossible challenges? Challenges that, when conquered, label characters as among the broken? How about martials, should we make a separate beastmass for them?
Hey Shasf, I don't think simply multiplying the number of monsters is the right way to go, I can't think of a single character that can handle 6 Pit Fiends other than that oracle that can defeat 6 pit fiends (Though I'm sure that there's a way to get 6 wishes that will destroy the oracle). Are we creating impossible challenges? Challenges that, when conquered, label characters as among the broken? How about martials, should we make a separate beastmass for them?
For martial characters and for those like bard, would suggesting one v. one be more acceptable.
Then for a greater challenge, increasing the number of creatures or changing locations to better suit the creature rather than having a neutral ground for both.
I think a good reading of the Encounter Guide is in order :P.
CRs are generally made with the assumption of a 4 PC party typically a Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, and Cleric type. With varying degrees of gear acquired at the beginning of the adventure then more with treasure later on with level gains.
So it would be safe to assume that any CR 20+ would prove difficult to a single PC (CR = Class Level - 1 typically). So your average party of four would be the equivalent Challenge Rating of their level + 3.
Lowering over the course of a day depending on how many resources they've expended at each encounter.
So I shall redesign the numbers for the encounters to keep it at a more friendly CR 19 encounter or single enemies at a higher CR.
I feel like I'm designing a new AP called:
Beastmass - The Eater of Characters
Though I was thinking that Sandpoint and its surroundings would provide a very neutral setting for any encounter of this challenge, letting any character be viable (at least settings wise).
Though I would like suggestions as well.
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Okay, I wanted to try my hand at a Synthesist Summoner. I've never built one before, but I spent a good number of hours pouring over the PRD and fourms to make sure that he's legal.
** spoiler omitted **...
The problem with any Synthesist is, they are very vulnerable to AMF.
If anything gets that spell off, your an unfused commoner while inside the AMF. Now, if you can prevent your opponent from casting, your golden.
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Updating Beast-mass Challenge
- Use 20 point buy for ability score generation
- Any paizo created race is acceptable (no custom races)
- Monsters as PCs, use CR as their baseline level (20HD max)
- Any class from paizo is acceptable (no 3rd party materials; i.e. dream scarred press, frog god games, ect.)
- Characters start with 2 traits (these cannot be campaign traits meant for AP character creation)
- Use standard WBL for PCs (880,000gp for a 20th level character)
- Item creation feats will increase this by 5% of the base value for each item creation feat possessed by the character; or 7% if you have the hedge magician trait
- Custom magic items cannot be used; however slot changes for items will be acceptable with a 25% cost increase of the crafting cost or a total of a 50% increase of the market cost.
- SLAs cannot qualify you for early access to prestige classes
- Leadership is allowed, however followers and cohorts use NPC wealth by level and cannot transfer any wealth to the character that took leadership; unless it is to bring the character back to life and have restoration cast upon them. Doing this though may place followers and cohorts in harms way and should be noted in the combat section.
- Combats should be as descriptive as possible
- Gathering information on creatures is crucial for any PC, but to represent the more unusual creatures in each bestiary after the first, we need to make it more difficult.
- The baseline is the Bestiary 1, which allows for Knowledge DCs at 10 + CR/ +5 after that to know more about the creatures.
- Knowledge checks DCs for Bestiary 2 are: 15 + CR/ + 5 for each ability after the initial result
- Knowledge checks DCs for Bestiary 3 are: 20 + CR/ + 5 for each ability after the initial result
- Knowledge check DCs for Bestiary 4 are: 25 + CR/ + 5 for each ability after the initial result; however the base DC will increase on a 1:1 basis if the creature has Mythic Ranks.
- Each combat encounter should be run three times. Once for the monsters to have a surprise round, no surprise round, then the character gets a surprise round.
- Any creature or PC that has a surprise round also gets two free rounds to buff themselves; this time may be extended by casting the spell time stop.
- As an additional advantage to the creatures, they have fore-knowledge of the characters abilities when they receive a surprise round and when no surprise round occurs to better adjust their tactics to the PC.
- For combats that include powerful abilities and spells, such as wish, the creature would most likely pick something that is very debilitating to the opponent. (Ex: a pit fiend fighting a character who relies heavily on magic items would wish for an AMF, Mage’s Disjunction, or a Negating field [words of power] before going into melee combat, some widened to encompass a very large area). If a challenger needs help with an appropriate wish, we (as the community) will try to be as constructive as possible.
- Each combat should occur in the creature’s native habitat, if that habitat is not easily accessible to the PC in question, provide a neutral area where all abilities have the possibility of being used in equal measure. (sounds confusing; will change wording to make it clearer).
- Use average results for dice rolls, going from low to high for PCs and high to low for monsters. (d20 for PC: 9, 10, 11, 9, 10, 11 ect; d20 for monsters: 11, 10, 9, 11, 10, 9, ect).
- Critical threats kick in when the percentages from hits (not misses) build up to 60% within or over rounds (eg. 12 basic /20x2 hits would offer one threat and confirmation).
- Failed saves kick in when the percentage from rolls builds up to 60% within or over rounds (eg. 12 rolls for a dice that needs a 1 to fail a save would offer a critical failure)
Bestiary 1------------------------------------------- CR----------- Environment
- Solar, Angel ------------------------------- 23----------- Good Aligned Plane
- Balor, Demon------------------------------ 20----------- Any (Abyss)
- Pit Fiend, Devil----------------------------- 20----------- Any (Hell)
- Red Dragon, Great Wyrm------------------ 22----------- Warm Mountains
- Gold Dragon, Great Wyrm----------------- 23----------- Warm Plains
- Silver Dragon, Great Wyrm---------------- 22----------- Temperate Mountains
- Tarn Linnorm------------------------------- 20----------- Cold Lakes or Swamps
- Shoggoth----------------------------------- 19----------- Cold Aquatic or Underground
- Tarrasque---------------------------------- 25----------- Any
Bestiary II------------------------------------------ CR----------- Environment
- Pleroma, Aeon-------------------------------- 20----------- Any (Outer Plane)
- Draconal, Agathion---------------------------- 20----------- Any Air (Nirvana)
- Star, Archon---------------------------------- 19----------- Any (Heaven)
- Brijidine, Azata-------------------------------- 18----------- Any (Elysium)
- Astradaemon, Daemon------------------------ 16----------- Any (Abaddon or Astral Plane)
- Olethradaemon, Daemon---------------------- 20----------- Any (Abaddon)
- Purodaemon, Daemon------------------------- 18----------- Any (Abaddon)
- Vrolikia, Demon------------------------------- 19----------- Any (Abyss)
- Immolation, Devil------------------------------ 19----------- Any (Hell)
- Crystal Primal Dragon, Great Wyrm----------- 18----------- Any Underground (Plane of Earth)
- Umbral Primal Dragon, Great Wyrm----------- 22----------- Any
- Lhaskharut, Inevitable------------------------- 20----------- Any
- Jabberwock----------------------------------- 23----------- Any Forest
- Mu Spore------------------------------------- 21----------- Any
- Night-Crawler, Nightshade-------------------- 18----------- Any (Negative Energy Plane)
- Night-wave, Nightshade----------------------- 20----------- Any (Negative Energy Plane)
- Keketar, Protean------------------------------ 17----------- Any (Limbo)
- Iathavos, Qlippoth----------------------------- 20----------- Any (Abyss)
- Ravener--------------------------------------- 22----------- Warm Mountains
- Sard------------------------------------------ 19----------- Any Forest
- Thrasfyr--------------------------------------- 17----------- Any
- Elysian Titan----------------------------------- 21----------- Any Land (Elysium)
- Thanatotie Titan------------------------------- 22----------- Any (Abyss)
- Xacarba--------------------------------------- 15----------- Any Land (Abyss)
Bestiary III----------------------------------------- CR----------- Environment
- Asurendra, Asura----------------------------- 20----------- Any (Hell)
- Bandersnatch---------------------------------- 17----------- Any Forest
- Tempest Behemoth---------------------------- 22----------- Any Air
- Thalassic Behemoth--------------------------- 20----------- Any Water
- Thunder Behemoth---------------------------- 18----------- Any Land
- Shaggy, Demodand--------------------------- 18----------- Any (Abyss)
- Arvan, Div------------------------------------ 20----------- Any (Abaddon)
- Forest Imperial Dragon, Great Wyrm---------- 22----------- Any Forest
- Sea Imperial Dragon, Great Wyrm------------ 20----------- Any Water
- Sky Imperial Dragon, Great Wyrm------------ 21----------- Temperate or Warm Mountains
- Jinushigami, Kami----------------------------- 20----------- Any
- Eremite, Kyton-------------------------------- 20----------- Any (Plane of Shadows)
- Tor Linnorm----------------------------------- 21----------- Cold Volcanic Mountains
- Norn------------------------------------------ 18----------- Cold Mountains
- Void Yai, Oni--------------------------------- 20----------- Cold or Temperate Mountains
- Maharraja, Rakshasa-------------------------- 20----------- Any
- Deep Sea Serpent----------------------------- 19----------- Any Ocean
- Thriae Queen---------------------------------- 18----------- Any
- Hekatonkhirres Titan-------------------------- 24----------- Any
- Tzitzimitl--------------------------------------- 19----------- Any
Bestiary IV----------------------------------------- CR----------- Environment
- Bhole----------------------------------------- 17----------- Any Underground
- Flesh Colossus-------------------------------- 16/MR 6-----Any Land
- Iron Colossus--------------------------------- 21/MR 8-----Any Land
- Stone Colossus-------------------------------- 19/MR 7-----Any Land
- Dagon, Demon Lord-------------------------- 28----------- Any Ocean (Abyss)
- Kostchtchie, Demon Lord--------------------- 26----------- Any Cold (Abyss)
- Pazuzu, Demon Lord-------------------------- 30----------- Any (Abyss)
- Lunar Outer Dragon, Ancient------------------ 18----------- Vacuum
- Solar Outer Dragon, Ancient------------------ 18----------- Vacuum
- Time Outer Dragon, Ancient------------------- 20----------- Vacuum
- Void Outer Dragon, Ancient------------------- 18----------- Vacuum
- Vortex Outer Dragon, Ancient----------------- 19----------- Vacuum
- Drakainia-------------------------------------- 25/MR 8-----Any
- Elohim---------------------------------------- 23/MR 6-----Any (Extraplanar)
- Cernunnas, Empyreal Lord-------------------- 30----------- Any Forest or Plain (Elysium)
- Korada, Empyreal Lord----------------------- 26----------- Any Forest or Mountain (Elysium)
- Vildeis, Empyreal Lord------------------------ 28----------- Any (Heaven)
- Bokrug, Great Old One----------------------- 27----------- Any Water
- Cthulhu, Great Old One----------------------- 30----------- Any (R’lyeh)
- Hastur, Great Old One------------------------ 29----------- Any
- Guardian Dragon------------------------------ 24/MR 10---Any
- Julunggali-------------------------------------- 21/MR 8----Any Land or Water
- Agyra Kaiju----------------------------------- 27----------- Warm Mountains
- Bezravnis Kaiju------------------------------- 26----------- Warm Deserts
- Mogaru Kaiju--------------------------------- 28----------- Warm Forests or Water
- Yamaraj Psychopomp------------------------- 20----------- Any (Purgatory)
- Star-Spawn of Cthulhu------------------------ 20----------- Any
- Fomorian Titan-------------------------------- 22/MR 8-----Any (Abyss)
Now, as per the encounter design table, we will set a few things from this.
Difficulty/Challenge Rating Equals
Easy----------APL -1
Average-------APL +0
Challenging---APL +1
Hard----------APL +2
Epic----------APL +3
Improbable----APL +4
Going with the table, any creature that has a CR under the PCs level should have the CR of that encounter increase to be more appropriate for their level.
- Ex: Shoggoth from the bestiary one is a CR 19, one less than the APL for an average encounter, but an easy encounter none-the-less. For an increased challenge to the PC, adjust the encounter accordingly.
- 1 shoggoth for an easy encounter; 2 shoggoth for an average encounter; 3 shoggoth for a challenging encounter; 4 shoggoth for an epic encounter; 6 shoggoth for an improbable encounter.
So, what do you guys think of the updated rules?
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Maybe a point system is in order, where each encounter awards points based on it's adjusted CR.
For instance, fighting a shoggoth underwater adds 1 to the CR, and when defeated gives the PC 20 points. A shoggoth fought in a place that favors the PC reduces it 1 CR, making it worth 18 points.
Also include points for initiative, for instance a shoggoth with a surprise rounds is worth 1 more than normal, and a shoggoth that is surprised is worth 1 less than normal. Instead of HAVING to do each encounter 3 times, allowing the participant to try it out for themselves.
Maybe include gear as well. A Pit Fiend is CR 20 with no gear, CR 21 with NPC gear, and CR 22 with PC equivalent gear (for it's HD) (I got this from the Encounter Guide, not sure where it is in the rules)
Another CR adjustment would be the exclusion of lengthy abilities. -1 CR to exclude abilities that refresh 1/year or less frequently, for instance.
By using points, characters can customize each fight to fit their capabilities. This encourages showing off the most of what each character can do, while still awarding points to those that can 'barely' do it. Might see more martials this way, even if the only way they can defeat some encounters is with the surprise round.
Though I would place a cap on certain CR adjustments. For instance if a character with mass suffocation can 1 round 100 Shoggoths, they would get tons of points for no extra effort (lame). Maybe limit the number of extra monsters to 4? (after 4, the CR adjustments stop being simple. If we keep it at four, we can just say "For each monster added, increase CR and points by 1)
As for character creation, I feel only getting 5% extra wealth for a feat is very low. Wondrous Items account for nearly 700k of my Kensai's items, Craft Wondrous Item would give me another 350k to play with, an increase of nearly 40%. Ultimate Campaign suggested 25% increase when a character is made with a crafting feat.
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Another way of gaining points would be # of encounters between rests. The first encounter would grant 0 extra points, the second would grant 1, the third 2, the fourth 3, the fifth 4 etc...
More points could be awarded for time between each encounter, so as to somewhat discourage buffs without removing them entirely (characters that need buffs, or don't want to expend those resources every fight so they go longer that day, will be getting less points [relying on buffs can be bad, this shows that]).
I believe we can work a point system in to help vary the builds.
We'll nail it down as we go along, so for starting out I do like the idea you presented. So let's try it that way first and then polish it as we go.
Though if we go about limiting the number of points for # of creatures, I think it might be a good idea to limit the number of points given for endurance days because martial characters do not have a reliable way of healing themselves between encounters if they take damage.
I need to drag out my ultimate campaign, though is it a flat 25% increase or is it with each crafting feat? If it's just a flat increase I see no issues with changing the ruling to match. Though if martial classes wanted to gain a similar benefit, they have to spend 2 feats to do it which I feel is a little biased personally. Though the wealth increase may offset the loss of two feats.
I think each character should start with at least 1 hero point and then they can purchase more by using their earned points or gain them as a reward for earning so many points between encounters?
Though mythic might be a little complicated for some to apply to their characters or feel that it would make challenges easier, I will look through the Mythic book to see if there are enough creatures in their to make a mythic beastmass challenge though. If not, I could roll it into the Bestiary IV challenge or rather pull the mythics from B4 and place it into a mythic beastmass.
I agree with the others that for the purposes of wish and miracle, just use the "as written" spell, not the gm fiat extra part added on.
I do agree.
But any creature with an intelligence of 20 or higher (genius) and a wisdom score to back it up (or vice-versa) with any knowledge of a character should be creative in what it wishes for. Within the confines of the spell and the same materials accessible to the players.
So many creatures to look through. Though should custom creatures also be submitted to the beastmass?
I don't mean completely rebuilt, just like adding on a vampire or lich template to a few, or other templates to give a wider variety of foes?
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I've never used hero points, and I don't believe it's used in PFS either. Hero points are an "optional" system that can be implemented by DM's for their campaigns, so I'd exclude it (we want to deal with the classes as is).
I was honestly thinking that martials have the upperhand when it comes to endurance days: Except hit point loss, they don't run out of resources (casters lose spells), so they can take on as many fights as they have HP for. If they arean't getting hit, well, then they can take on all of the encounters in a single day (perhaps there should be a cap on the amount of bonus points available via this way).
A Sniper Rogue, for example, could use sniping to take out a lot of the encounters, given that he has the surprise round and a very high stealth skill. He'd never get hit, and so could press on until he runs out of arrows.
The rest period honestly doesn't help their HP much either, 8 hours of rest would only heal a certain amount of HP. So, for martials, they'd need a way to use wands or other things anyways. Though we could also add in that taking a rest period includes going into town and visiting a healer.
I agree with the no GM fiat part of wish and miracle, while it does limit them quite a bit it simplifies the process by a ton.
Adjusting Character Wealth by Level
You can take advantage of the item creation rules to hand-craft most or all of your magic items. Because you've spent gp equal to only half the price of these items, you could end up with more gear than what the Character Wealth by Level table suggests for you. This is especially the case if you're a new character starting above 1st level or one with the versatile Craft Wondrous Item feat. With these advantages, you can carefully craft optimized gear rather than acquiring GM-selected gear over the course of a campaign. For example, a newly created 4th-level character should have about 6,000 gp worth of gear, but you can craft up to 12,000 gp worth of gear with that much gold, all of it taking place before the character enters the campaign, making the time-cost of crafting irrelevant.Some GMs might be tempted to reduce the amount or value of the treasure you acquire to offset this and keep your overall wealth in line with the Character Wealth by Level table. Unfortunately, that has the net result of negating the main benefit of crafting magic items—in effect negating your choice of a feat. However, game balance for the default campaign experience expects you and all other PCs to be close to the listed wealth values, so the GM shouldn't just let you craft double the normal amount of gear. As a guideline, allowing a crafting PC to exceed the Character Wealth by Level guidelines by about 25% is fair, or even up to 50% if the PC has multiple crafting feats.
If you are creating items for other characters in the party, the increased wealth for the other characters should come out of your increased allotment. Not only does this prevent you from skewing the wealth by level for everyone in the party, but it encourages other characters to learn item creation feats.
Example: The Character Wealth By Level table states that an 8th-level character should have about 33,000 gp worth of items. Using the above 25% rule, Patrick's 8th-level wizard with Craft Wondrous Item is allowed an additional 8,250 gp worth of crafted wondrous items. If he uses his feat to craft items for the rest of the party, any excess value the other PCs have because of those items should count toward Patrick's additional 8,250 gp worth of crafted items.
...I've never used hero points, and I don't believe it's used in PFS either. Hero points are an "optional" system that can be implemented by DM's for their campaigns, so I'd exclude it (we want to deal with the classes as is).
I was honestly thinking that martials have the upperhand when it comes to endurance days: Except hit point loss, they don't run out of resources (casters lose spells), so they can take on as many fights as they have HP for. If they arean't getting hit, well, then they can take on all of the encounters in a single day (perhaps there should be a cap on the amount of bonus points available via this way).
A Sniper Rogue, for example, could use sniping to take out a lot of the encounters, given that he has the surprise round and a very high stealth skill. He'd never get hit, and so could press on until he runs out of arrows.
The rest period honestly doesn't help their HP much either, 8 hours of rest would only heal a certain amount of HP. So, for martials, they'd need a way to use wands or other things anyways. Though we could also add in that taking a rest period includes going into town and visiting a healer.
I agree with the no GM fiat part of wish and miracle, while it does limit them quite a bit it simplifies the process by a ton.
** spoiler omitted **
After looking at the hero point system again, I agree that it should also be left out. It works better in organized play or in pbp campaigns rather than benchmarking.
Martial characters could indeed potentially outlast other characters, though without a reliable means of healing or removing status effects their day may just be three or four encounters.
For the sniper rogue, would having the far shot feat negate all distance penalties for bows and cross-bows? IF the sniper rogue was sniping and wanting to get SAs off, the max distance would be 90ft without magical aid. On top of a base stealth check (not modified further by race or feats) it is still a -20 to stealth after firing. But if they can keep it up then they will have no problems until the creature in question does something about the arrows/bolts. Though I could see a rogue using a ballista (just a giant cross-bow) and sniping with that.
As for spellcasting services, I'd just follow the guidelines in the crb and purchase them. Though I can see where that would cause issues as well.
Sure? But the more creatures you add, the less likely people are to actually participate, due to the first look at how daunting it is.
True, that will have to be for another day.
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Sniper Goggles would make Sneak Attack possible at any range, range penalties don't negate sneak attacks :P
With +15 from Greater Shadow Armor, a +10 in dexterity, full skill ranks, +4 for being small, +4 for being a goblin, and +3 from training, your stealth skill gets up to 56. With the sniper rogue talent, you only take a -10 for sniping, bringing it down to a 46. If you rolled a 1 on your stealth, a Gold Dragon Wyrm would need a 12 to spot you. Rolling an 8 or higher on your stealth check means there's no way for it to find you. Permanent reduce person would add another 4 to your skill :)
Sniper Goggles would make Sneak Attack possible at any range, range penalties don't negate sneak attacks :P
With +15 from Greater Shadow Armor, a +10 in dexterity, full skill ranks, +4 for being small, +4 for being a goblin, and +3 from training, your stealth skill gets up to 56. With the sniper rogue talent, you only take a -10 for sniping, bringing it down to a 46. If you rolled a 1 on your stealth, a Gold Dragon Wyrm would need a 12 to spot you. Rolling an 8 or higher on your stealth check means there's no way for it to find you. Permanent reduce person would add another 4 to your skill :)
I know range penalties do not interfere with sneak attack, I was concerned more for the actual attack roll for distance.
ie: Accuracy [ex]: At 1st level, a sniper halves all range increment penalties when making ranged attacks with a bow or crossbow.
Farshot [ex; feat]: You only suffer a –1 penalty per full range increment between you and your target when using a ranged weapon.
To negate all range penalties as well so you could in theory SA from maximum firing distance with a bow or cross bow.
Heavy Ballista: Range Increment 180ft, +1 distance for a range increment of 360ft. Max range is 3600 feet or if I recall, Range Increment language right, 3959ft (still within the ruling of being below the next full range increment).
That being said, I am still working some kinks out for the character creation and combat rules of the beastmass.
Though should I leave the no sla's can be used for early access bit in, or take it out and leave it to the errate and faq section of paizo?
should I also include an arena of sorts for each monster?
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I think the arena could be left out, unless you want to draw out full fledged maps. I'd leave whatever FAQ's and Errata's that Paizo has set as they are, instead of trying to regulate rulings. The early-access SLA's won't be much of a bother, since most prestige classes are only 10 levels anyways, so they would have qualified for it by level 20 easily. The only issue is using an SLA for item creation feats, which I'm perfectly fine with (martials can use all the help they can get :P).
So, just go with whatever Paizo has stated, in this case, SLA's allow early access to things.
I think a definite ruling should be made on what constitutes fleeing for good. In the original beastmass, no one flees for good, yet the solar was allowed to retreat and then come back for revenge. We should place a time limit on how long a monster or participant can be absent from the battle. Maybe 4 rounds? or 5 rounds, and say 30 seconds? O.o Or keep it at the same advantage as catching someone surprised: two rounds. These would not be counting the round needed to teleport away and the round needed to teleport back.
I think the arena could be left out, unless you want to draw out full fledged maps. I'd leave whatever FAQ's and Errata's that Paizo has set as they are, instead of trying to regulate rulings. The early-access SLA's won't be much of a bother, since most prestige classes are only 10 levels anyways, so they would have qualified for it by level 20 easily. The only issue is using an SLA for item creation feats, which I'm perfectly fine with (martials can use all the help they can get :P).
So, just go with whatever Paizo has stated, in this case, SLA's allow early access to things.
I think a definite ruling should be made on what constitutes fleeing for good. In the original beastmass, no one flees for good, yet the solar was allowed to retreat and then come back for revenge. We should place a time limit on how long a monster or participant can be absent from the battle. Maybe 4 rounds? or 5 rounds, and say 30 seconds? O.o Or keep it at the same advantage as catching someone surprised: two rounds. These would not be counting the round needed to teleport away and the round needed to teleport back.
I think 30 seconds or 5 rounds is enough time to reapply buffs or heal a little bit, but I think a limit on the number of times any one flees would also be good, to limit abuse.
Points could also be awarded for causing an enemy to flee/retreat.
Though I am also beginning to think that other ways of ending an encounter should be valid other than just straight well death from dpr. Spells like imprisonment, soul trap, or abilities like grapple, slumber hex, and such.
So if a creature is unable to act for more than a minute (10 consecutive rounds), it could also be considered a win.?
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I agree, it'd make a lot of sense to knock out the lawful good dragon as a lawful good character than kill it. It should be at the level of incapacitate, or to the point where it's obvious that there's no chance for escape. At the same time, there needs to be the ability to kill said monster. So grapples = okay, grappler can start killing said opponent. Putting something to sleep = not okay, even with a Coup De Grace the monster could still live, wake up, and eat you.
Not sure if causing an opponent to flee is worth points... My idea of the point system was to reward builds on strengths that would be good to have in an actual campaign. Causing opponents to flee and come back with reinforcements, or after telling the rest of the dungeon that there's bad guys nearby, would be a bad thing typically... especially if the fear you cause is required in the build you use.
In the instances where it would be appropriate to kill the monster, such as the balor, I agree putting it to sleep would not be the final round with the creature, but a gold dragon perhaps.
Though how would you suggest that characters go about doing this?
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Well, I think the character should be required to prove that they can kill said creature, or at least place it in a state where it can never do anything again. Then, once that's proven, they can do whatever they want, let it live, kill it, teleport it out to some random plane of existence etc... But the "defeating" the encounter is what we're after: Can the character successfully defeat this encounter? If so, it's a good character. If not, then... "eh".
If the character or monster incapacitates the other, should there be a limit in place to determine the winner; like boxing's ten count?
*edit* This might be a good idea if the PC cannot find a way to win in so many rounds, or if a tie happens to take place.
From the first thread about beastmass:
Critical threats kick in when the percentages from hits (not misses) build up to 60% within or over rounds (eg. 12 basic /20x2 hits would offer one threat and confirmation).
We should also have something in place where there is still a chance to miss, 5% for rolling a one, increasing by 5% for each number above a one to a maximum of 95% (rolls of a 20 result in an automatic hit).
Though not just for attacks, but for saving throws as well.
maybe something like that?
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You could simply addedum it all on as "This applies also to saving throws, rolling a 1, and" whatever else you want in there. Though there's probably a more... mathematically sound approach to this. As is, my Kensai has a 30% threat weapon, which means he gets to critically hit every other attack, meaning his weapon is actually acting as a 50% threat weapon.
Maybe when percentages add up to 60%, and at 160%, 260%, 360% etc... said event happens.
So number of misses (not hits) adds up to 95% within or over rounds (19 misses), then you score a hit (critical threat not confirmed); addendum, on the second hit the critical threat confirms.
So number of hits (not misses) adds up to 95% within or over rounds (20 / x2 weapon) results in a critical threat and confirmation.
Resetting back to 0% before the next roll upon scoring a critical threat?
Might be a bit lack-luster though.
- Each monster is worth 1/3 of their CR in points, rounded down to the nearest whole number.
- Victory — 1 Point earned
- Defeat — 1 Point lost
- Average and lower CR offer no bonus points.
- Encounters of Epic, Challenging, and Impossible challenge ratings give bonus points equal to their CR adjustments; Epic +1. Challenging +2, Impossible +3
- If the PC is mythic they earn 1 less point per mythic tier (minimum of 1 point earned)
- If the monster is Mythic and the PC is not, the PC earns one extra point if they are non-mythic.
- If the monster has an ability that they can use 1/week or greater, their CR can be reduced by 1 if that ability has been used prior to the challenge and reduce the number of points the creature is worth by 2 for each ability used in this fashion (maximum of 6 points).
- Monsters with NPC WBL of their CR earn 5 extra point
- Monsters with PC WBL of their CR earn 10 extra points
I'm still working on the table
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We can do more of a complicated system where the point of happening changes:
1. don't roll back to 0 until you hit 100%.
2. The point of happening starts at 60, then decreases by 20 every time you reach it until it hits 0, which it wraps up to 100%.
So, to sample, my Kensai is attacking a dummy in the gym for practice. His attacks have a 30% chance to critically hit. Assuming all of his attacks land, his second hit's critical threat adds up to 60%, allowing him to hit critically. The point of happening changes to 40%, and his next hit adds up to 90%. So, something like:
1. 30%
2. 60% critical, point of happening moved to 40%
3. 90%
4. 20%
5. 50% critical, point of happening moved to 20%
6. 80%
7. 10%
8. 40% critical, point of happening moved to 0%, but wraps up to 100%
9. 70%
10. 100% critical, point of happening moved to 80%
11. 30%
12. 60%
13. 90% critical, point of happening moved to 60%
etc...
This system is much more accurate than before, but as can be noted, it still leans on the "chances are, it'll happen" side of things.
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Confused a bit on the points, should we keep points equal to the CR, or do you want it to be 1/3 CR to start? Do you want CRs 21, 22, and 23 to all be worth the same, same with CRs 18, 19 and 20?
The less the base encounter is worth, the more the extra points matter. I think the emphasis should be on whether they can complete the encounter or not O.o. But it's completely up to you! As for "Defeat", are you trying to say that the participant gets no points and loses one point for even trying?
Here's what was in my head:
Each encounter awards it's CR in points when defeated.
More or less points are gained based on the following criteria:
1 point is awarded for each duplicate monster added to the encounter
1 point is awarded when the monster has the surprise round
1 point is awarded if this is NOT the first creature defeated that day.
2 points are taken away when the participant has the surprise round
1 point is awarded when the monster has terrain advantages
1 point is taken away when the participant has terrain advantages
1 point is taken away per mythic tier the participant has
1 point is added if the monster has mythic tiers
2 points are taken away for each monster ability suppressed (abilities that can be suppressed are limited to Wish, Miracle, and any ability that is 1/week or less frequent)
5 points awarded for adding a NPC's budget's worth of gear (159,000 at CR 20) to a monster. This is in addition to whatever gear the creature may already have*
10 points awarded for adding a PC's budget worth of gear (880,000 at CR 20) to a monster. This is in addition to whatever gear the creature may already have*
*Money given to a creature is to be spent primarily on defensive gear. Offensive gear is bought after all of these items start to cost more: such defensive gear includes appropriate AC items ring of deflection, amulet of natural armor, armor, bracers of armor, shield, cloak of resistance, and stat increasing items that add to the creature saves (belt of constitution and dexterity, headband of wisdom).
There might be a few items, like Eyes of the Eagle, that we can add to the list of items to be purchased, but I figured this was a good start.
Confused a bit on the points, should we keep points equal to the CR, or do you want it to be 1/3 CR to start? Do you want CRs 21, 22, and 23 to all be worth the same, same with CRs 18, 19 and 20?
The less the base encounter is worth, the more the extra points matter. I think the emphasis should be on whether they can complete the encounter or not O.o. But it's completely up to you! As for "Defeat", are you trying to say that the participant gets no points and loses one point for even trying?
Here's what was in my head:
Each encounter awards it's CR in points when defeated.More or less points are gained based on the following criteria:
1 point is awarded for each duplicate monster added to the encounter
1 point is awarded when the monster has the surprise round
1 point is awarded if this is NOT the first creature defeated that day.
2 points are taken away when the participant has the surprise round
1 point is awarded when the monster has terrain advantages
1 point is taken away when the participant has terrain advantages
1 point is taken away per mythic tier the participant has
1 point is added if the monster has mythic tiers
2 points are taken away for each monster ability suppressed (abilities that can be suppressed are limited to Wish, Miracle, and any ability that is 1/week or less frequent)
5 points awarded for adding a NPC's budget's worth of gear (159,000 at CR 20) to a monster. This is in addition to whatever gear the creature may already have*
10 points awarded for adding a PC's budget worth of gear (880,000 at CR 20) to a monster. This is in addition to whatever gear the creature may already have**Money given to a creature is to be spent primarily on defensive gear. Offensive gear is bought after all of these items start to cost more: such defensive gear includes appropriate AC items ring of deflection, amulet of natural armor, armor, bracers of armor, shield, cloak of resistance, and stat increasing items that add to the creature saves (belt of constitution and dexterity,...
I meant to do this for winning and losing
- Victory — Gain points worth the Encounter CR - 10
- Defeat — No points gained or lost
If the PC is defeated, the gain no points on that encounter.
I do like the break down of points that you provided, but this should also encourage other builds to participate.
- Base Encounter CR – 10 points is awarded for each Victory
- 0 points are awarded for being defeated
- 1 point is awarded for each duplicate monster added to the encounter (maximum 5 points)
- 1 point is awarded when the monster has the surprise round
- 1 point is awarded if this is NOT the first creature defeated that day.
- 2 points are taken away when the participant has the surprise round
- 1 point is awarded when the monster has terrain advantages
- 1 point is taken away when the participant has terrain advantages
- 1 point is taken away per mythic tier the participant has
- 1 point is added if the monster has mythic tiers
- 2 points are taken away for each monster ability suppressed (abilities that can be suppressed are limited to Wish, Miracle, and any ability that is 1/week or less frequent)
- 5 points awarded for adding a NPC's budget's worth of gear (159,000 at CR 20) to a monster. This is in addition to whatever gear the creature may already have*
- 10 points awarded for adding a PC's budget worth of gear (880,000 at CR 20) to a monster. This is in addition to whatever gear the creature may already have*
- Unless the PC is defeated, they can earn a minimum of 1 point per challenge
Though I'm wondering if bonus points based on materials used should also be in place, like +20 points if the PC only used items/spells/races/classes found in the CRB (no archetypes/variant racial traits/variant racial favored bonus).
My goal is to have every build be viable to an extent.
Some builds are better at support, front line, CC and what have you.
So the hammer, the arm, the anvil roles of characters.
Though keeping with the general idea of beastmass, I should also do one for levels 6, 10, 14. Benchmark levels for 3rd level spells, 5th level spells, and 7th level spells.
But again, that is for another time.
As a baseline though: It looks like the Kensai that Frodo made has earned roughly 104 points.
So far:
Magus - 104
Oracle - 104
Summoner - 104
All tied.
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It took a bit longer then I had planned but here is the first of the Beastmass challenge creatures who have prepared themselves for this fight.
Balthazar the Champion
Solar champion and master of the duel
Balthazar the Champion has served as the receiver of challenges for over 10,000 years and never once in all that time has he been bested. He has learned in the innumerable challenges he has experienced tactics versus nearly every possible permutation of single combat and distilled that down into his personal Holy Book: The Rules of the Ring.
Here prospective gladiators learn the secrets of single combat against a variety of enemies, secrets Balthazar has taken to heart. He has devoted his considerable wealth and spell casting abilities to harden his weaknesses and prepare himself to overcome all challengers.
This lets him always have all his buffs up and to determine whether he’s fighting a spellcaster (and whether they are Arcane or Divine) or if they are strictly martial.
This means purchasing an Cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone, a Commanding Dueling spiked gauntlet(runeforged), a Belt of Incredible Dexterity +6 and a ready supply of Zerk drug. These changes increase his initiative from +9 to +20. He then casts his all day buffs of Eaglesworn and Bloodsworn Retribution increasing his initiative from 20 to 27. He has also used the retraining rules to replace his Cleave and Mobility feats with Extra Traits (reactionary & a +1 reflex save) and quicken spell boosting his init to +29.
This means buying a Cloak of Resistance +5, Cracked Pale Green Prism – Saves, and keeping the Nine Lives spell active all day. This with the previous spells running adds +11 to all his savings throws and removes any of these conditions the instant they are applied (blinded, confused, cowering, dazed, dazzled, entangled, exhausted, fatigued, frightened, nauseated, panicked, shaken, sickened, or staggered) though he usually reserves using this for the more dangerous conditions like Dazed, Confused, frightened, panicked or staggered.
This means while he appears to be meditating with his sword across his lap and a stick in his hand he is actually luring his opponent to unleash their strongest ability against him so it can be neutralized costing them their first action and with that the fight. He has purchased a Rod of Absorption, taken the drug Aether and cast Hallow upon his shrine and with a dispel magic attached to it set to counterspell any cast from someone who doesn’t worship his diety and cast Impart Mind on his greatsword.
Per the beastmass rules this hits any spell cast here with a 31 counterspell check (unless the caster has boosted the CL of his spell above 20 it’s automatically countered), if it gets past that it’s absorbed by the rod of absorption (no action) and if it gets past that it has to contend with his (minimum) 40 savings throw. If anything gets past that then the intelligent dancing +5 greatsword harries the attacker while Balthazar recovers.
Solar
NG Large outsider (angel, extraplanar, good)
Init +29; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, detect evil, detect snares and pits, true seeing; Perception +33
Aura protective aura
DEFENSE
AC 47, touch 14, flat-footed 42 (+14 armor, +4 Dex, +1 dodge, +19 natural, –1 size; +4 deflection vs. evil)
hp 318 (22d10+242); regeneration 15 (evil artifacts, effects, and spells) -35HP from spells
Fort +36, Ref +30, Will +34; +4 vs. poison, +4 resistance vs. evil
DR 15/epic and evil; Immune acid, cold, petrification; Resist electricity 30(pro energy 120), fire 30(pro energy 120); SR 34
OFFENSE
Speed 50 ft., fly 150 ft. (good); 35 ft., fly 100 ft. (good) in armor
Melee +5 dancing greatsword (power attack) +35/+30/+25/+20 (3d6+33) or slam +30 (2d8+13)
Ranged +5 composite longbow (+9 Str bonus) +31/+26/+21/+16 (2d6+24 plus slaying arrow)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 20th)
Constant—detect evil, detect snares and pits, discern lies (DC 21), true seeing
At Will—aid, animate objects, commune, continual flame, dimensional anchor, greater dispel magic, holy smite (DC 21), imprisonment (DC 26), invisibility (self only), lesser restoration, remove curse, remove disease, remove fear, resist energy, summon monster VII, speak with dead (DC 20), waves of fatigue
3/day—blade barrier (DC 23), earthquake (DC 25), heal, mass charm monster (DC 25), permanency, resurrection, waves of exhaustion
1/day—greater restoration, power word blind, power word kill, power word stun, prismatic spray (DC 24), wish
Spells Prepared (CL 20th)
9th—etherealness, mass heal, miracle, Quickened Boneshatter(DC27)
8th—fire storm (DC 26), Anti-magic Field, Quickened Greater Dispel(2) ,Quickened Blessing of Fervor
7th—destruction (DC 25), Quickened Dispel Magic(3), holy word (DC 25),
6th—banishment (DC 24), Antilife Shell, Elemental Assessor(2), Impart Mind
5th—break enchantment, breath of life, dispel evil (DC 23), plane shift (DC 23), righteous might, symbol of sleep (DC 23)
4th—cure critical wounds (3), death ward, dismissal (DC 22), neutralize poison (2) (DC 22)
3rd—cure serious wounds, daylight, invisibility purge, magic circle against evil, prayer, protection from energy, wind wall
2nd—Martyr’s Bargain, bear's endurance, bull's strength, consecrate, cure moderate wounds (2), eagle's splendor
1st—bless, cure light wounds (3), divine favor, entropic shield, shield of faith
0 (at will)—detect magic, purify food and drink, stabilize, virtue
STATISTICS
Str 28, Dex 26, Con 30, Int 23, Wis 27, Cha 25
Base Atk +22; CMB +37; CMD 52
Feats Extra Traits, Deadly Aim, Dodge, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Improved Sunder, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Quicken Spell, Power Attack, Toughness
Skills Craft (any one) +36, Diplomacy +37, Fly +37, Knowledge (history) +36, Knowledge (nature) +37, Knowledge (planes) +37, Knowledge (religion) +37, Perception +37, Sense Motive +38, Spellcraft +36, Stealth +27, Survival +37
Languages Celestial, Draconic, Infernal; truespeech
SQ change shape (alter self)
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Slaying Arrow (Su)
A solar's bow needs no ammunition, and automatically creates a slaying arrow of the solar's choice when drawn.
Spells
Solars can cast divine spells as 20th-level clerics. They do not gain access to domains or other
Treasure double (+5 full plate, +5 dancing greatsword, +5 composite longbow [+9 Str bonus]), Cracked Dusty Rose Ioun Stone (500GP), Cloak of Resistance +5 (25,000GP), Cracked Pale Green Prism – Saves (4000GP), Rod of Absorption (50,000GP), Spiked Gauntlet +1(Dueling & Runeforged-Comanding) 32,000GP, Zerk Drug (50gp), Ring of Terrible Cost (20,000GP), Belt of incredible Dexterity +6 (36,000), aether drug (20gp)
Running Buffs:
Eaglesoul: 20Hours
Bloodsworn Retribution: Duration of Beastmass
Nine Lives
Hallow: Counterspell at 21st caster level (aether when cast)
Impart Mind (Greatsword)
Resist Energy Fire & Electricty
Protection from Energy Fire & Electricity
Balthazar is content to wait for spellcasters to attack him in his shrine hoping to draw them into attacking him so his Hallowed Dispel magic and Rod of Absorption can negate their first attack if they are quick enough to attack him before he can respond. Knowing that usually the only creatures that can act faster then he does are specialist Diviners he makes sure to immediately destroy any scrying eyes that attempt to peer into his shrine before they can learn of his preparations.
Combats usually follow the basic pattern of Initiative, Balthazar goes first with quick spellcraft +Permanent Arcane Sight to identify each spell effect and magic item on the target follwed by a quickened Blessing of Fervor on himself and the greatsword and a greater Dispel Magic to remove any pesky spells with Freedom of Movement, Contingency, SpellBane, Mind Blank and any flight spell in that order and draws his bow. At this point the Greatsword activates and moves into melee range with the speed boost from Blessing of Fervor and threatens the caster.
He'll drop his rod (weapon cord) on the next round and cast Quickened Greater Dispel Magic to remove any Fortitude boosting spells or items before peppering the caster with Arrows of Slaying +5. If the caster is still alive after that then the +5 Dancing Greatsword will continue the attack hoping to drop the caster through sheer damage output or sundering it's fort boosting gear to force it's save vs the slaying arrows to fail. He reserves his Martyrs Sacrifice, quickened boneshatter and Prismatic Spray for emergency purposes.
Nothing should live past round 2, round 3 at the most.
This post has gone on long enough for the first post in this challenge.
This is a moderately optimized and prepared opponent though I choose to skip several significant power increases that would nearly double his survivability and attack power since this should be more then enough to annihilate any challenge from a mortal who dares try.
I'll get around to posting the next opponent some time later if someone can find a way past Balthazar.
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I am pretty sure andreww's oracle blows him up still, but I am not sure
Andrewws oracle doesn't stand a chance, Balthazar automatically saves against all his spells and abilities (his lowest save beats the oracles highest DC by 3) and he is immune to all his single target spells/spell-like abilities. Also his caster level beats the oracles so he can remove all of the oracles buffs and protection spells in a single round.
In Andreww's example Balthazar kills him in one swift action (removing his planar adaptation and contingency in astral space with dispel magic).Though to be honest Andreww made an illegal move in building that encounter that invalidated it before it even started but that's not important.
edit: Argh, uploaded the wrong copy of Balthazar, forgot we swapped out the +1 reflex save trait for magical knack (Cleric). He's designed to use his high CL Dispel magics to defeat his opponents.
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In Andreww's example Balthazar kills him in one swift action (removing his planar adaptation and contingency in astral space with dispel magic).Ahlissa is continuously invisible and mind blanked and therefore Balthazar cannot perceive her. His reflex save is 30, below her DC36 dazing blade barrier. Facing Balthazar she almost certainly grabs improved invis, disjunction and time stop with paragon surge, blows up his buffs and then drops multiple dazing persistent blade barriers on him during the time stop. She can amend spellbane to make herself immune to dispel magic.
Though to be honest Andreww made an illegal move in building that encounter that invalidated it before it even started but that's not important.I would be interested to know what in the spirit of scientific enquiry.
I would also point out that Nine Lives initially appeared as a Catfolk only spell. If we are allowing racial specific stuff for other races then it is definately on my list of stuff to pick up.
Invisible and mind blanked prevents Balthazar from MAGICALLY perceiving her, it doesn't protect her from being physically detected by a simple perception check or scent or blindsense (oh and remember Mind Blank protects the SUBJECT CREATURE specifically, it doesn't protect items the subject has) and Balthazar has access to ALL those methods and more. A simple locate object on a well known "thing" in a targets possession gets you into the area where she is then the perception kicks in. Balthazar sits at a +33 normally and can easily run around with a +60 or better when he wills it making your oracle a breeze to find.
And yes the DC for your dazing blade barrier is 36 but the minimum roll for Balthazars saves is 40, he auto saves against it and just about every spell you cast. Your disjunction can never destroy any of his gear since the default save each piece has is 44 (39 if you target just one piece) which is still 3 higher then your best DC.Nine Lives is a catfolk only to LEARN not cast spell. Just like contingency is a wiz/sorc only spell but you found a way to cast it. Since Balthazar has 5 wish/miracle spells per day he has no problem keeping that spell up whenever he chooses. If he decides he wants to use those slots for something else he simply drops 8,000GP for a Padma blossom which does the same thing but doesn't require an action. It changes a few buff layouts for that day but not significantly enough to change the outcome.
As for changing your spell layout after you've already started the battle puts us back into Schrödinger's wizard area but again that's not really important. Lets say you do swap out for for dispel magic and greater dispel magic (you want to stop both of them right) how are you going to stop the miracle granted Arcana Theft that strips you of that protection as well.
The tactics for this creature is simple, strip the magical protections from the target, block any new castings and unload with the unstoppable melee damage. The exact spells used varies with each target based on unique circumstances but the tactics stay the same.
As for your error, you actually made 2.
A). both targets where aware of each other at the beginning of combat so there should not have been a surprise round.
B). Your spellbane only affects targets within 10 feet of you and the solar has 10 foot reach, he's outside of the range of your spellbane so his AMF still works preventing your Blade Barrier from affecting him. He's not dazed and your AC is lowered enough that he can activate the DANCING blade and steps back to pound on you while he uses his bow to attack you from 15ft away.
Also this is the beastmass challenge, all single d20 rolls are a 10 including Initiative.
Finally, 20th level casters starting a fight by turning off their spellcasting ability is really a dumb move, followed by moving into melee when they don't have to instead of using their self controlled/motivated weapons to attack and shooting their bows which get more attacks and do more damage.
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Kikiamori VS Balthazar... Hmm
Would Kikiamori be considered a martial or a spellcaster? Or should I just run both ways?
Kikiamori is a magus, which makes him a spellcaster which means Baltahzar waits for him to come to him.
edit: Oh and be careful, Balthazar exists to defeat targets just like Kikiamori and none of the tactics you used on the pit fiend work on him.
Good Luck.
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He finishes the rest of the original beastmass, and then spends a couple days pondering what was said. He caught all of his foes in their moment of weakness, but an solar specifically waiting for challengers to come would be always be ready. He decides that his best chance of success would be to ambush Balthazar like the solar, in his own home, and take him out as fast as possible. However, he also knows that there will be a lot of defenses, similar to the dragon supposedly called "Beastmass 3". A knowledge Religion check (in a library, +2 bonus, equating to a roll of 46) tells him of some of the challengers to this 'Balthazar', and that he is, in fact, a Solar of high standing. Previous challengers have ranged from barbarians to wizards, all having failed, though more information is unavailable.
He prepares many different tactics in his mind. He decides that stripping the angel of any magical defenses would be best, and that pure physical might could be enough to end the challenge in a single round. If not, then he may have some trouble, or perhaps a lot, of trouble. From the random gear he got from the last challenge, he pays for a few services, including retraining "Bleeding Critical" for "Extra Arcana: Arcane Cloak". He also pays a wizard to cast magic aura on all of his gear, making his gear appear non-magical to spells such as detect magic and arcane sight. He casts contingency, with true strike placed in it, to activate when he attempts a combat maneuver of any kind.
Stoneskin
Echolocation
Freedom of Movement
Resist Energy: Fire
Bull's Strength
Mirror Image
Invisability
Greater Magic Weapon x2
Keen Weapon x2
Overland Flight
True Seeing
Arcane Sight
He gets to about 400ft away from the home, he casts Dance of 1000 Cuts. About 250 feet away, he uses arcane cloak to increase his stealth skill by 14. With a stealth check of 49 (excluding invisability and any other things that true seeing could see through) he is able to reach the enterance undetected, and at this point enchants his main weapon with an additional +4 bane. He also recognizes the aura's surrounding the home with his arcane sight (while he was spending several rounds sneaking about at half speed, he's using standard actions to study the home). He recognizes an aura of Evocation [Good] emanating from 40ft inside the home. Hallow? (A 38 intelligence character would be able to make an educated guess). A trap is certainly kept inside.
Then, Kikiamori attacks 4 times, all of which hit (the lowest bonus being 39, landing on a 3). The first attack is with his dispelling weapon, successfully removing the 5 highest level spells the solar has active on itself (all of them, leaving hallow in the area and Impart Mind of the sword). Finally, the 2 second attack (after the disarm) is a critical hit, for which he spends 2 arcane pool to increase the critical multiplier. Only the first hit is subject to damage resistance, due to the second weapon being considered an epic weapon versus angels.
He deals: 1d6+24 + 7d6+128 + 2(4d6+33) + 3(1d6+20) + 2d6+40, for a final average count of 336.5 after DR and resistances.
The angel promptly passes out.
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Addedum: If there's no way to sneak up to the house, then he uses Elemental Body to accomplish the task, making him even harder to detect. He pops up again right next to the entrance, dismisses Elemental Body, and then continues on as planned.
Even if the angel knows about what time I am coming, he doesn't know exactly when, and can still be surprised by an opponent he hasn't detected.
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Invisible and mind blanked prevents Balthazar from MAGICALLY perceiving her, it doesn't protect her from being physically detected by a simple perception check or scent or blindsenseHis perception is 33, Ahlissas stealth is 61 while invisible. All of her spells are silent so his chance to detect her is negligible especially when you start to factor in range penalties. Blindsense and Sense rarely extend past 60'. Most of her offensive spells have a range of 210'.
(oh and remember Mind Blank protects the SUBJECT CREATURE specifically, it doesn't protect items the subject has) and Balthazar has access to ALL those methods and more. A simple locate object on a well known "thing" in a targets possession gets you into the area where she is then the perception kicks in. Balthazar sits at a +33 normally and can easily run around with a +60 or better when he wills it making your oracle a breeze to find.I am pretty certain that is not the case. Your spells protect gear on your person as well as you.
Finally, 20th level casters starting a fight by turning off their spellcasting ability is really a dumb move, followed by moving into melee when they don't have to instead of using their self controlled/motivated weapons to attack and shooting their bows which get more attacks and do more damage.That might be true if many of their spells had any sort of chance to affect her. She saves against any of them on a 1 and can reroll four times per day with Rewind Time. If she is out of them then she can use Borrow Fortune.
Ahlissa's stealth is 41 and goes up to 81 when invisible and sitting in a corner. It drops to 56 when moving at half speed and 46 when moving at full speed and drops to 26 if combat starts while moving. Everyone forgets the modifiers that stealth and invisibility have.
Also I made an error when posting Balthazar, his perception isn't 33 it's actually 38 (forgot a buff bonus that was running).As for mind blank vs locate object spells USUALLY include your items in the protection, this one specifically only references the target and specifies the locate creature line of spells. The target is protected from divination finding out information about it. Other things don't get that protection.
Finally, your opponents don't cast buffs before attacking? Out of the full cleric spell list with as much time to prepare as they want they choose not to buff before attacking an enemy they think would take 2 of them, 1D3 lillends and several elementals?