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Finally saw last episode... I'm not sure why they decided to have Barbara go evil, but I don't really care about the character so whatever...
I'm more pissed that they didn't give definite end to Fish. They made it look like she could come back, when all I wanted is for her to get a bullet in the head.
I'd also enjoy it more if penguin learned to keep his mouth shut instead of announcing his deeds to everyone he wronged every time... -.-'
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The finale certainly was very rushed, but it was also very entertaining. Sad to see Maroni go, he was one of my favorite characters on the show. I'm certainly interested in what do they do on the next season. Penguin continues being my absolute favorite character on the show, and I'm happy for the second season if only to see him again.
Nygma's freakout was good scene.
Why are you laughing, you fool? It’s not funny.
What a creep.
She’ll keep digging.
Why did you have to leave a clue? Why? Relax.
What can she find? What can she prove? Nothing.
There’s no body.
Stop worrying.
But she looks so sad and angry.
I hate it when she looks at me that way.
Menacing and weird.
Please. Like it matters, like you stand a chance with her.
She knows how you feel about her and she treats you like dirt.
Treats you like dirt.
I don’t care, I still love her.
Oh, listen to yourself.
Be a man! (laughing) You’ll do better with that one if she’s a little scared of you.
Stop talking like that.
No riddles.
Formal complaints about you.
Just keeping it real.
What’s black and white and red all over? Stop it! I wouldn’t quit your day job if I were you.
He is so weird.
That's some good madness there.
I'd also enjoy it more if penguin learned to keep his mouth shut instead of announcing his deeds to everyone he wronged every time... -.-'
Does it matter when he can bait people in obvious manners and they fall for it. I swear he must have some sort of super power to get away with it the way he does.
Not to say I didn't enjoy the finale but it does feel as if for every great bit there was a moment that was equally terrible.
I'm with other people getting a little tired of the show. I get that they're going for a dark and maybe not so "comic book" portrayal of Gotham but does every major villain need to be a impulsive killer. It seems in character even if it is an extreme interpretation for the Penguin but seeing Nygma simply as a different kind of crazy killer is a little disappointing. Gotham can't seem to decide if it's Batman or a police procedural and is starting to do a bad job at both.
The series was never perfect, but it was pretty decent and quite entertaining... I really think it started going downhill after Penguin deposed Fish (at that point, they should have killed her and ended season 1)
Barbara is a wasted character, IMO... But she is not as infuriatingly annoying as Fish (yet).
Well... I'll give it another chance next season... Let's hope the writers know how many episodes they'll have to make next time around.
As others have said: A bunch of crappy Ogre and really crappy Barbara episodes/scenes, and then a one episode quick lame ending with a bunch of out-of-character actions?
Ugh. Not good.
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I'll watch season two. Mostly out of inertia.
I've noticed, when I watch Flash or AoS, I watch it. And when I watch Gotham, i usually also do some other stuff on my second monitor. Not a good sign.
Basically this. Gotham is my "Put it on, I'm cooking/cleaning/writing/reading/playing Peggle" show.
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Basically this. Gotham is my "Put it on, I'm cooking/cleaning/writing/reading/playing Peggle" show.I'll watch season two. Mostly out of inertia.
I've noticed, when I watch Flash or AoS, I watch it. And when I watch Gotham, i usually also do some other stuff on my second monitor. Not a good sign.
Yep...here too...it usually just background noise for something else...
Ah. I've just been watching it on Hulu. So I guess technically I "paid for the experience" but only insofar as I pay for Cable.
I don't understand ** spoiler omitted **
With this show I just keep shrugging and going "But hey, it's Batman so... just keep watching" but I keep walking away feeling underwhelmed.
I was wondering the same thing. I understand Marooney is a hot-head, but he knows Falcone is not afraid of him so a phone call saying "I did not make that order" should have settled things because at that point, they do some minor investigation, and it would lead back to Cobblepot.
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I was feeling a little rough around the edges, having trouble concentrating, so I watched the season premier last night...
Same with Nygma - suddenly, the dude's having conversations with himself. I'll give the actor credit, though. He did great playing old and new versions.
While I like the guy playing Jerome (future Joker, apparently), and think he has lots of potential as a future Clown Prince of Crime, I'm not enamored of the way they're treating this origin.
I like how they're working Penguin. I think, though, that he needs to adopt some more of his comic book quirks: umbrellas, a fondness for birds, maybe a monocle.....
And I loved the back and forth between Penguin and Zsasz. Very friendly, but you could see that Penguin was in charge.
Also, glad to see they kept Butch in. I liked him.
I did not like the way they handled the thing with Gordon. It just seems to violate the spirit of the character. He was never perfect, but was he ever so easily corrupted?
That stuff with the cave at Wayne Manor....WTF?!? That was just f%$~ing stupid.
Barbara's transition was way too much, too fast.
Jerome is only one possible Joker. I believe the show runners have told us there will be several and they're not committing to one. Watch the first few minutes of the show again, where the "Master" is giving Zaardon his potion. There are some odd color effects in one scene that make Galavan's suit look purple.
I cannot believe Bruce didn't think to try B-R-U-C-E. I thought of that as soon as I noticed the combination was a sequence of five. I'm sure a lot of viewers did.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I was surprised that Bruce so quickly went to brute force on the door. At least a scene with him trying to crack the code either researching stuff on his father or the meaning of the gorgon head on the door, etc. And then when he went to brute force a home made bomb? Not a drill or something first (which could have shown the door was simply too tough for more conventional means. A 13 year old boy body slamming a steel door isn't enough to then immediately jump to a bomb as the next best option.)
okay I was GOING to give up on the show, but a close friend (who has the exact same opinions of the show as me!) has for some reason not, so I ended up watching it last night.
I had many laugh out loud moments I have to say, like Bruce with the bag of fertilizer, the sex dungeon comment, and Barbara's prison phone.
The show continues to amaze me by pretending certain things just never happened, dragging out things beyond the point of sanity (Hi Bruce sorry I still have gotten no closer to finding out who killed your parents) and speeding up plot developments that really could have been handled as a long character arc (What happened with Gordon this episode). Plus all the random were "Were the writers drunk elements?", like Selina's new status and everything to do with Arkham Aslyum.
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Jerome is only one possible Joker. I believe the show runners have told us there will be several and they're not committing to one.
That's what I remember reading during season 1. After the episode that originally introduced Jerome, they've continued to play coy with people, as so...
Was that really the Joker we saw in the promo for tonight's Gotham? Here's what Bruno Heller saysand
Gotham actor confirms Joker connection and reveals new details about playing the character
It's internet rumormongering (Blastr-mongering to be specific), so it's got to be taken with a grain of salt (or maybe a salt mine).
Watch the first few minutes of the show again, where the "Master" is giving Zaardon his potion. There are some odd color effects in one scene that make Galavan's suit look purple.
I'll have to go back and watch. It'd be nice if they continued to leave his identity unconfirmed.
This came back on already?
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This show is coasting, really. And I was one of the big fans with high hopes before the show began last season and amped up when this show premiered. That went on for several episodes, culminating in the episode where Cobblepot revealed his allegiance to Carmine Falcone (who was my favorite layered villain at the time and is no longer in the cast) and asked that Gordon be assigned to his execution.
That plot line showed great pacing all the way to the reveal.
After that there have sad missteps, dull missed thrusts and awkward head scratching of "what are we going to do next."
This season is already starting to give me "I am shaking my head to say no" moments.
They turned my favorite good guy, Harvey Bullock into a bartender and he did not get any one cool or witty line, I'm that's NOT Harvey Bullock I loved from season one.
How many times can they kick to the curb/demote Jim Gordon. Really, it's an overused story/plot device at this point. Even more tiresome, "Bruce, I am sorry (again) for not being able to solve your parents murder (again) because I have been taken off the case/the investigation/the force (again),
And what I hate, I HATE that Gordon compromised his ideals because of the little baited carrot by the Penguin. And this was actually reinforced and goaded on by in a speech by Bruce?!! Excuse me?
I felt my jaw drop.
They just compromised the moral codes of the current dark hero (Gordon) and the future dark hero (Bruce). WTF!
While there were one or two scenes that I did like, they were more like small speed bumps on the autobahn highway to the shows cancellation.
The show runners need to give us some credit that we are an intelligent viewership that follows this.
On a side note, and so that I end on a happy note, love conquers all.
They officially came out last Sunday at the Emmys, so even if this show tanks, hopefully there will be a happy couple to come out of all this.
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For those who read the comics or were just wondering; the new characters from episode 1 of season two include Tabitha Galavan (Jessica Lucas), also known as Tigress, and her brother, Theo Galavan (James Frain) who may or may not be The Joker as well (I'm not buying this).
Gotham executive producer John Stephens previously teased that the shadowy organization known as The Court of Owls (also drawn from DC comic) may be influencing Wayne Enterprises on the show, in addition to having ties to the Gotham City mobster underworld. The late Thomas Wayne’s underground vault may hold the key, it is possible that it won't be long before Bruce finds out what his father had discovered about the veiled organization that are behind Wayne Enterprises.
Also, since they need the ratings, the end credits Season teaser strongly hints at a possible steamy romantic relationship between Barbara and Tabitha.
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And what I hate, I HATE that Gordon compromised his ideals because of the little baited carrot by the Penguin. And this was actually reinforced and goaded on by in a speech by Bruce?!! Excuse me?
I felt my jaw drop.
They just compromised the moral codes of the current dark hero (Gordon) and the future dark hero (Bruce). WTF!
This, +1000. I was flabbergasted by this bit of plot.
Also
This, +1000. I was flabbergasted by this bit of plot.*And what I hate, I HATE that Gordon compromised his ideals because of the little baited carrot by the Penguin. And this was actually reinforced and goaded on by in a speech by Bruce?!! Excuse me?
I felt my jaw drop.
They just compromised the moral codes of the current dark hero (Gordon) and the future dark hero (Bruce). WTF!
I actually like it... It's nice to see Gordon and Bruce never compromising their ideals... But doesn't match the show's atmosphere very well.
IMO, it'd be much more interesting if their will faltered, but in time, after seeing the consequences of their compromise, they realized they can't make Gotham a better place if they aren't better than it. It'd have even more meaning if the one to guide them back to the light were Harvey Bullock.
That said, I don't trust the series to handle it well... :/
Hopefully it'll be better than the last few episodes of the first season, which were completely rushed, poorly thought and incredibly frustrating.
On the bright side... No more Fish!
I enjoyed the premiere from the perspective of this is NOT Batman, it never will be Batman, and is for all intents and purposes an alternate universe with familiar characters doing unfamiliar things.
This Gordon lives in a less idealized world than his comics counterpart. He does dirty things so he can do good ones, basically. I like it, as a concept at least.
On a side note, and so that I end on a happy note, love conquers all.** spoiler omitted **...
Not only that, but they are already having a baby...
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+1 on no more Fish
To be fair Fish started as a character full of potential, without the comic book continuity chains of the other major characters, she could have been an exceptional addition to the Batman Mythos.
Instead, it was a waste of a talented actress and even bigger waste of a possibly major character. Fish will now become a synonym for "jump the shark."
In the end Fish is still not as putridly bad as say, taxing the poor or the bubonic plague, but let's keep her out of the series at least a full season.
+1 on no more FishTo be fair Fish started as a character full of potential, without the comic book continuity chains of the other major characters, she could have been an exceptional addition to the Batman Mythos.
Instead, it was a waste of a talented actress and even bigger waste of a possibly major character. Fish will now become a synonym for "jump the shark."
In the end Fish is still not as putridly bad as say, taxing the poor or the bubonic plague, but let's keep her out of the series at least a full season.
hah...jumping the shark I don't think is a phrase I would use in reference to a show that "jumped the Shark" in the first season...
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Surprised no one has commented on the events at the end of episode 2 the other night.
This was a much better episode than the first. Gerome and Alfred carried it for sure.
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The kid playing Bruce is now 14. It's hard to imagine the show running longer than 5 years, so with no jumps in time that would require recasting, the most we can get out of him is leaving Gotham (either for college or to travel the world) preferably after Gordon finds his parents' killer.
In the last 60 seconds of the final episode, behind a caption reading "<some number of> YEARS LATER", young adult Bruce has returned to Wayne Manor and is brooding in his study, perhaps sketching ideas for a costume. He's not satisfied with any of them. He needs something...and then a bat flies in through the window and we roll credits.
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This isn't Smallville, Bruce Wayne isn't a young adult about to become Batman, he's still a messed-up kid, and Batman if he exists is more than a decade in the future.
We kind of have to letgo the idea of a Batman mythos and see if this Gotham develops a mythos of it's own.
Agreed. I like the show not only for what it is, but also for what it *isn't*, and that's yet another Batman show.
Great episode! Much better than the first one! Makes me recover a little of my faith in the series. Let's hope it keeps improving.
The first one was still much better than the last half of season 1, so I'd be content if it was AT LEAST that good.
You know what I hate about the Batman Mythos...Batman. I want Batman movies without Batman, Batman TV without Batman. Batman action figures without Batman. Batman lunch boxes without Batman.
I just don't understand this show. All of these villains exist as foils for Batman and Bruce, they don't make any sense outside of Batman.
If you want a series without Batman, then break him in the first episode and show us the Bat Family picking up the slack.
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I actually really enjoyed both episodes. All actors did amazing job, especially Cameron Monaghan, Robert Lord Taylor and Cory Michael Smith. I really, really like Jerome. He is so much fun, and I can see him totally nailing as the Joker in the future. Little moments like "Anybody got a light?" and "My line" just echo the Clown Prince of Crime. I honestly think that Jared Leto is gonna have a hard time surpassing this kid.
Part with Alfred and Lucius was awesome. I really like this Alfred the best.
I have high hopes for this series, as it seems upping the ante with each episode. I like Gotham because it has, in my opinion, nailed the atmosphere of the city just right. But like good Batman stories should, it has not lose it's..."quirky" nature. Like the Arkham Asylum bit, Joker's sense of humor, absurd things that make the world come alive.
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I just don't understand this show. All of these villains exist as foils for Batman and Bruce, they don't make any sense outside of Batman.
I actually think it makes sense. Fact that these villains exist because of Batman in comics is kind weird when you think about it. Doesn't it make more sense that there is Batman BECAUSE of villains?
"Gee, there's this guy who is dressed as bat-ninja and he is beating the crap out of criminals. I want to be a criminal!"
Now I know that of course it's not this simple. Most Batman villains are mad, mad people. And I have enjoyed these stories with this backstory for years. But I'm open to a new interpretation.
I knew that whatever Gotham was going to do with the "Joker" was going to be stupid, and they didn't let me down...
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Let me be a little less frothy and more reasonable. I was peeved when I wrote that last post, and I don't mean to pee in the cheerios of anyone who likes the show.
My problem with this show is my problem with DC television and film properties generally. (not talking about animation here, because Timm obviously gets it in exactly the way the rest of the producers don't). With the exception of The Flash, they refuse to embrace the core attributes of their characters. In pretty much every other case, they take characters who have existed for a very long time, have had a lot of variations, and fail to bring those characters to the screen. I'm not asking that they hew to any particular continuity. I enjoy 1960's camp Batman, 1940's serial Batman (floppy ears and all), 1989 Batman. But Batman is a few things that they can't embrace for some reason. In fact, Arrow is a pretty good Batman show, and not really much of a show about Oliver Queen, so I have just decided to embrace Arrow and mentally reskin the characters with their Bat equivalents.
But I wander.
The Joker is chaos incarnate. Knowing who the Joker is, knowing his story, is a bad idea. It was a bad idea in 1989, and it's a bad idea now. He isn't just a guy who laughs like the Joker.
Jim Gordon is not corruptible, but he is not perfect. He has problems with his personal life, but is not corrupted in his professional life. That is why Bruce is willing to work with him.
Penguin I think is fairly close to being Penguin. I like that he is the most normal of the villains.
Nigma exists as the Riddler, I think, because he wants to challenge Batman. Without Batman, he is just a doofus.
The problem for me is that Batman is the most popular comic character for several reasons, and none of those reasons are here. If they gave us a Batman show for 8 seasons where we started with Becoming Batman (Year 1) and evolved through Dick, Jason, Tim, Barbara, Jim goes from Lieutenant to Commissioner, Harvey becomes Two Face, throw Huntress or Catwoman in there at some point, let Cat woman go through a transformation from villain to anti-hero, bring in Bane and spend a season breaking the Bat and then a season of Dick becoming the Bat (or by that point go gonzo and bring Azrael in, by this point it is year 7 and the audience would follow you). Then bring Bruce back for the final year of the show and wrap it all up somehow.
That would be a great show.
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A lot of this is because Warner Brothers is run by idiots.
DC's current policy is that Superman and Batman can't show up on TV (and I assume this extends to certain related characters and villains), because they worry about over saturation. So instead we get preteen Bruce Wayne or teenage Clark Kent. Or a show about Superman's niece in a universe where Superman exists, but can never ever appear on air. They've even extended this to less well known properties that are getting movie treatments...Deadshot had to be killed off on Arrow because of the Suicide Squad, which also kept Harley Quinn from showing up on that show as planned. Because somehow the presence of two live action Batmans is something our mere mortal minds can't handle.
It's just a horrible idea, because it intentionally hamstrings your properties. Gotham wants to be a show about Batman, based on how they need to cover every single aspect of the mythos, but it comes off as stupid or weird by forcing a super young Bruce Wayne in the show
It would be one thing if the movies and TV shows were the same universe. Marvel TV can at least reference characters and movie events, and have more minor characters like Sif and Peggy Carter pop up on TV. But no...DC wants to keep the TV shows separate universes...not only separate from the Movies but also separate from one another (Gotham is (thankfully) not part of the CW-verse, and apparently Supergirl is operating in a separate universe as well).