Global Organized Play Coordinator
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Regarding what constitutes being a "worshiper" for determining prereqs for some new feats and the like.
You can find it HERE.
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Reading the FAQ I wondered at the rationale behind making lay worshippers having to have an alignment within one step of the gods. I can understand it for someone who draws divine power from the being but for other people it doesn't seem to make much sense.
It also potentially creates issues for Chelaxians and doesn't really fit terribly well with the description of religion, in particular the role of Asmodeus, in Cheliax.
This is only for people who gain a mechanical benefit from said worship, not for somebody who just worships the deity.
People can worship whoever they want with any alignment as long as they don't gain anything from said worship.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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I think they're making a distinction between true "worship" and "lip service."
While I bet all the LE, NE, and LN followers of Asmodeus are genuine in their worship to the Dark Prince, I imagine there's a lot of LG, NG, CG, N, CN, and CE people in Cheliax attend Asmodean churches but are there only to keep up appearances.
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I was hoping this FAQ would describe what a Worshiper actually was.
If you do not decide to Worship a Deity what are you?
Can you say that you follow a deity without being an actual "Worshiper" and the Alignment restrictions?
Does "Worshipper" qualify you for the Alt Summon lists even if you are not a Cleric? For example a Wizard?
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I was hoping this FAQ would describe what a Worshiper actually was.
If you do not decide to Worship a Deity what are you?
Can you say that you follow a deity without being an actual "Worshiper" and the Alignment restrictions?
Does "Worshipper" qualify you for the Alt Summon lists even if you are not a Cleric? For example a Wizard?
You are someone who venerates that deity.
Sure, you can follow them, but you don't get to qualify for anything that requires you to be a worshiper. (E.g., you can venerate Desna, but that's not enough to get Butterfly Sting.)
Not sure on this one. I think that you should be okay, but that should be for Mike to decide.
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If you do not decide to Worship a Deity what are you?
You are either Atheist or you venerate a deity if you aren't a worshipper.
Can you say that you follow a deity without being an actual "Worshiper" and the Alignment restrictions?
Yes, see answer to first question. However, if you do not worhip a deity then you cannot gain mechanical benefits, such as feats that require the worship of certain deities.
Does "Worshipper" qualify you for the Alt Summon lists even if you are not a Cleric? For example a Wizard?
I am not too familiar with alt summoning lists but if it lists somewhere that a prerequisite is to worship a certain god then yes, if not, then no.
Edit: What Majuba said ^^
Yeah, that. :)You are either Atheist or you venerate a deity if you aren't a worshipper.you mean agnostic or atheist? Atheism is the belief in no god, not believing in a god isn't the same thing.
Or simply not giving-a-rat's-ass-ist. I can certainly believe in a god while not venerating him. There are enough ways to fail to interact meaningfully with a deity that I'm not sure it's worthwhile trying to catalogue them. But in none of those circumstances would you get any game-mechanical benefit from a deity you ignore, for whatever reason.
You are either Atheist or you venerate a deity if you aren't a worshipper.you mean agnostic or atheist? Atheism is the belief in no god, not believing in a god isn't the same thing.
Yeah, it's kinda hard to maintain the belief that "there are no gods" in a setting where there is empirical evidence that gods do, in fact, exist.
:)
-j
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You are either Atheist or you venerate a deity if you aren't a worshipper.you mean agnostic or atheist? Atheism is the belief in no god, not believing in a god isn't the same thing.Yeah, it's kinda hard to maintain the belief that "there are no gods" in a setting where there is empirical evidence that gods do, in fact, exist.
:)-j
Doable though. The wizard wrigles his fingers and a fireball pops out. The cleric prays to a god and your wounds heal. Not much difference there, and thats all some people will ever see for proof of a deity.
Yeah, it's kinda hard to maintain the belief that "there are no gods" in a setting where there is empirical evidence that gods do, in fact, exist.
Pfft, I've never met Cayden. What has he ever done for me!
His church serves a great brew though... Or so I've been told.
Doable though. The wizard wrigles his fingers and a fireball pops out. The cleric prays to a god and your wounds heal. Not much difference there, and thats all some people will ever see for proof of a deity.
Yarr, plenty of critters out there without a need of god to get superpowers too, though you probably don't want to run into those things. Its okay though, they're mostly waiting in deep dark dungeons no one smart would want to enter!
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You are either Atheist or you venerate a deity if you aren't a worshipper.you mean agnostic or atheist? Atheism is the belief in no god, not believing in a god isn't the same thing.
Or you believe that they are simply beings living in a different plane, not divine or deserving of worship.
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I'm just wondering if this actually Golarion cannon like the must worship one and only one deity to get divine spells ruling, or just a PFS house rule?
Does this new atonement rule now cover all alignment changes in PFS, or only changes of what deity you worship? I assume it also applies if you are going from having no god to choosing your one god you can worship.
I'm just wondering if this actually Golarion cannon like the must worship one and only one deity to get divine spells ruling, or just a PFS house rule?
Depends on what you mean I think. If I remember right, PFS has houserules that require certain classes that don't require a god to worship one, such as the paladin, and PFS also doesn't allow clerics of an ideal to exist. Not too keen on Golarion Canon myself. Outside of worshipping a single deity or ideal, there's pantheon worship as an option in certain settings, but that's usually not build your own pantheon as much as worshipping a premade one, like the dragons below.
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There are no clerics of an ideal in Golarion last time I checked, and the pantheistic clerics had been reconned out. The reason given is that otherwise it would not make any sense from a setting standpoint that the priests of Razmir had to fake their divine magic. So that ruling at least makes sense and kind of needs to exist logically.
The paladin thing is a PFS rule, probably intended to stop things like the infamous paladin of Pharasma. Specifically the arguments about said paladin.
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I'm just wondering if this actually Golarion cannon like the must worship one and only one deity to get divine spells ruling, or just a PFS house rule?
Does this new atonement rule now cover all alignment changes in PFS, or only changes of what deity you worship? I assume it also applies if you are going from having no god to choosing your one god you can worship.
Its less house rule and more campaign setting rule.
Its less house rule and more campaign setting rule.I'm just wondering if this actually Golarion cannon like the must worship one and only one deity to get divine spells ruling, or just a PFS house rule?
Does this new atonement rule now cover all alignment changes in PFS, or only changes of what deity you worship? I assume it also applies if you are going from having no god to choosing your one god you can worship.
Its a really big house.
I always thought Razmiran priest used arcane, but I don't know much about Razmir either.
The paladin thing is a PFS rule, probably intended to stop things like the infamous paladin of Pharasma. Specifically the arguments about said paladin.Both Clerics and Paladin having to pick a deity are a Golarion setting thing.
Actually, I can't find anything stating that paladins need a deity in Golarion, but I can find things to contrary like this and this. Mind you its filled with some opinion here and there.
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I'm just wondering if this actually Golarion cannon like the must worship one and only one deity to get divine spells ruling, or just a PFS house rule?
Heck, in Golarion canon (1 n, not 2) you don't even have to worship a deity to get spells as proven by Salim in Death's Heretic and Redemption Engine. He outright insults her and he still casts spells.
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So, a thought occurred to me that isn't covered by this FAQ, but I feel should.
What happens if I have the Deific Obedience feat, and I change deities? Let's take it a step further and say that I'm high enough to gain bonuses from the obedience beyond the basic one, or that I have levels in Evangelist, Exalted, or Sentinel, do I need an atonement, regardless of alignment change to regain the usage of this feat or the PrC?
For example, let's say that a Lawful Neutral Wizard5/Evangelist5 worships Nethys, they have access to Nethys' first divine boon, as long as they commit to their obedience. However, the character has a bit of a spiritual enlightenment, and changes their deity to Irori. According to the FAQ, this character would not need to do anything other then note the change, since their alignment is already within one step of Irori. By RAW, they never do not meet the prerequisites for Deific Obedience, or the Evangelist Prestige Class, and since the character is not a cleric, it would seem that they could change all willy-nilly to another deity within 1 step of their alignment. So the Wizard in question could worship Nethys one scenerio, then Irori the next, and Asmodeus the one after that.
Considering the nature of the Deific Obedience feat, and the Evangelist Prestige class, I do not feel that this should be something so easily done, at least for a character that has the Deific Obedience feat.
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I agree that this isn't quite covered by the FAQ or by anything actually printed in Inner Sea Gods.
I would take my cue from the section on p49 of Chronicle of the Righteous, titled 'Ex-Mystery Cultists' where they talk about changing your Empyreal Lord patron for purposes of the Prestige Class.
A mystery cultist whose alignment becomes any nongood, or who goes against the will of her patron, loses all class features of this prestige class, including all spellcasting ability enhanced by this class (even if that spellcasting ability comes from a class that normally does not rely on the approval of a divine patron). She cannot thereafter gain levels as a mystery cultist until she atones for her deeds (see the atonement spell description). This is the only route a mystery cultist can take to switch to a different celestial patron—the atonement must come from a worshiper of the new empyreal lord.
Couldn't quite call it RAW, but I would think it is RAI for this general area, and is extremely analagous to the case of the Evangelist/Exalted/Sentinel.
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So, a thought occurred to me that isn't covered by this FAQ, but I feel should.
What happens if I have the Deific Obedience feat, and I change deities? Let's take it a step further and say that I'm high enough to gain bonuses from the obedience beyond the basic one, or that I have levels in Evangelist, Exalted, or Sentinel, do I need an atonement, regardless of alignment change to regain the usage of this feat or the PrC?
For example, let's say that a Lawful Neutral Wizard5/Evangelist5 worships Nethys, they have access to Nethys' first divine boon, as long as they commit to their obedience. However, the character has a bit of a spiritual enlightenment, and changes their deity to Irori. According to the FAQ, this character would not need to do anything other then note the change, since their alignment is already within one step of Irori. By RAW, they never do not meet the prerequisites for Deific Obedience, or the Evangelist Prestige Class, and since the character is not a cleric, it would seem that they could change all willy-nilly to another deity within 1 step of their alignment. So the Wizard in question could worship Nethys one scenerio, then Irori the next, and Asmodeus the one after that.
Considering the nature of the Deific Obedience feat, and the Evangelist Prestige class, I do not feel that this should be something so easily done, at least for a character that has the Deific Obedience feat.
Hm... the FAQ seems not to take into account mechanical elements that change based on what deity you worship. I would submit that this isn't a big problem mechanically, but flavorfully it is.
That being said, Sentinel doesn't have this problem unless the god you switch to has the same favored weapon as the one you came from.