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I am starting up a new campaign and the first 4 players just showed up (the remaining 6 will show up later after they get off work... *grumble* stupid life getting in the way *grumble*) with their character concepts. I was not expecting this mix of characters I must admit.
(The setting is a home brewed version of the Palladium Fantasy World using a house ruled Pathfinder rules set)
Current Party:
Half-orc Paladin of Rurga (Goddess of Truth)
Half-Elf Cleric of The Dragonwright (Dragon Gods)
Dwarf Oracle of Stone (Tongues Curse: Terran)
Human Inquisitor of Utu (THE Death god)
All the challenges I had set up did not take into account this level of divine help...
This is going to be an entertaining campaign.
Any suggestions on where to take this since the original story (Undead Horde) is going to need heavy revisions?
Why will the the original story of Undead Horde need heavy revisions? Channel Positive Energy is okayish for popping a bunch of baby undead, but does all of about nothing versus any real undead challenge; if Channel Positive Energy is a major threat to the undead they are facing, then those undead weren't going to be much more than speed bumps anyway is what I'm getting at. Besides that ability I don't really see what makes them uniquely devastating here.
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10 players? You sir are a champion! 8 is too many for me already.
Ah, the ol' "I made a zombie apocalypse and my players unwittingly created the lawnmower to their blades of grass" scenario, eh?
First off, you don't have to scrap the whole idea. Roll with it a bit.
Perhaps have it be the work of other, even less savory things. Daemons are a good choice (and much underutilized, IMO), what with their connection to death (each type is an incarnation of some type of death, from pestilence and famine, to suicide and drowning).
The Paladin will still rock but unless you plan on everything being Neutral he will do so anyway.
Also, take a leaf from Carrion Crown's book (though you scoff at published adventures. Though any successful horror campaign will do similar). Even a horror campaign isn't all about undead. Flesh Golems, things that are like ghosts but aren't (Shadow Demons, Phase Spiders, and the like), strange Aberrations and Oozes, Hags and Witches, Lycanthropes and even just bad people. So on, and so forth. There are many things that fit the theme but aren't technically undead.
Mitigates their "Divine hot knife through butter" effect and simultaneously increases enemy variety to keep it from getting stale.
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Who else might be in league with the undead horde? Who might be looking to take advantage of the disruptions caused, either for incursions on their own or for simple looting? How close are those connections? Is it a loose thing or highly integrated?
Edit: what greater horror was tapped to assemble and control this horde?
Ask these kinds of questions. Scribble down answers. Let the creative process do the rest.
Ah, the ol' "I made a zombie apocalypse and my players unwittingly created the lawnmower to their blades of grass" scenario, eh?
Not quite a Z-pocalypse and a lawnmower but they will run through the lower level stuff like $#!+ through a goose.
First off, you don't have to scrap the whole idea. Roll with it a bit.
I never scrap anything but I am a bit stumped as to how to proceed
Perhaps have it be the work of other, even less savory things. Daemons are a good choice (and much underutilized, IMO), what with their connection to death (each type is an incarnation of some type of death, from pestilence and famine, to suicide and drowning).
I had planned for a malevolent Demon King or two... Looks like they may have to step in earlier than planned.
The Paladin will still rock but unless you plan on everything being Neutral he will do so anyway.
I do not look to take away the thunder of any PC but I do expect them to have to work at it.
Also, take a leaf from Carrion Crown's book (though you scoff at published adventures. Though any successful horror campaign will do similar).Even a horror campaign isn't all about undead. Flesh Golems, things that are like ghosts but aren't (Shadow Demons, Phase Spiders, and the like), strange Aberrations and Oozes, Hags and Witches, Lycanthropes and even just bad people. So on, and so forth. There are many things that fit the theme but aren't technically undead.
Mitigates their "Divine hot knife through butter" effect and simultaneously increases enemy variety to keep it from getting stale.
hmmm... hags... now there is direction I had not considered.
I say let them rock the socks off the undead for a while. Then, unveil the true puppeteer behind the schemes (someone/thing neutral in alignment that is not an outsider) that has been distracting them the whole time with undead so he can build his army of fey or something!
Either way, it'll be interesting to see how so many divine characters interact with their varying religions/ethos potentially clashing. That said, ten players is WAY too many for my taste. I cap it at six players since the time I ran seven players for a year and a half and we only made it to 12th level...
I haven't run less than 10 in so long I do not think I could design a campaign for smaller groups any more.
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Another concept: given the party makeup, maybe they can handle the horde types more readily. So boost them a bit. They're made with some magical effect that gives them bonus vs channel, positive energy resistance, etc.
Add in some long list tools to combat this super-horde effect. Distribute it to multiple sites. Now you have the option of throwing in some varied encounters that support the regular plot, as well as subplots. Fight the dragon who has one part of the McGuffin. Demonstrate your worth to another. Do a series of favors for a third, and so on.
Demons, Demons, it's always Demons...why can't Daemons ever get no love? =(
Demons, Demons, it's always Demons...why can't Daemons ever get no love? =(
Because In this setting they get lumped in with Demons. (Got a Demon/Devil war going on in the cosmology)
Daemons are so much cooler though. They have soul catchers in the sky and literal concentration camps for souls. That's pretty intense.
Two more players have arrived.
I swear if I did not know any better I would say they planned this...
The "new guys"
Wolfen (Anthro wolf) Druid
Kankorn (Anthro fox) Ranger
*mumble, grumble, grouse* Annoying players wanting to play interesting characters, making my job harder... *mumble, grumble, grouse*
I kid...
This is going to be one very interesting campaign once it gets into full swing.
Daemons are so much cooler though. They have soul catchers in the sky and literal concentration camps for souls. That's pretty intense.
And they still do... But now they are a sub-culture of the denizens of Hades (Home of the Demons) locked in an eternal war with the denizens of Dyval (home of the Deevils).
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Nature adapts. Even to a zombie apocalypse. I've heard that these days, Chernobyl is actually a lush and green place, since most of the people have gone. Nature just comes back, but with species that can survive in the local horrors.
You rarely see bunny-wights or rat-wraiths. (Although those could be scary in their own way.) Most undead are anthropomorphic. It would seem that animals that feed on corpses, like rats and bugs, rarely have trouble surviving in undead-rich environments. Maybe they're beneath the notice of undead, maybe they're just fast and good at hiding, or maybe they're actually resistant to negative energy. For some reason undeath doesn't seem to kill off diseases either; you'd think negative energy might be a good way to sterilize medical equipment (like radiation), but that doesn't work...
Some animals might actually evolve to have both undead and living tissue. Maybe jackals actually eat careless/slow zombies.
Bottom line: you have an excuse for introducing quite weird and scary animals and plants. Those aren't Evil, so it's not quite so trivial to kill them with divine magic; but they're also just animals, so you can scare them or use more intelligent tactics. It should be a good break in the routine.
last four players have arrived...
Total party break down:
Half-orc Paladin of Rurga (Goddess of Truth)
Half-Elf Cleric of The Dragonwright (Dragon Gods)
Dwarf Oracle of Stone (Tongues Curse: Terran)
Human Inquisitor of Utu (THE Death god)
Wolfen (Anthro wolf) Druid
Kankorn (Anthro fox) Ranger
Elf Staff Magus
Human Fighter (Weapon Master)
Ogre Barbarian
Goblin Wizard (Conjuration specialist)
Pretty heavy on the magic side of things. Yeah things just keep getting better and better...
This is going to be one absolutely fun campaign by the time I get done.
I May even have to toss in a cult of a slumbering cthonic nightmare of a god for giggles...
I May even have to toss in a cult of a slumbering cthonic nightmare of a god for giggles...
Frsrs you said you didn't like Carrion Crown what gives
Feel free to throw some non-undead bad guys at them.
Some that come to mind are...
Grave robbers (rogues that sneak attack with shovels)
A spirit possessed Barbarian.
A trio of Witches that work with the necromancers, vampires etc.
Swarms. (A swarm of rats, bats or insects are hard to defeat with just divine magic)
Traps (Without a rogue, traps really become a challenge.)
Constructs. Intelligent undead will want a buffer between them and all that positive energy channeling.
Also, don't just use vanilla undead. I once hit a party with a mob of fast zombies that used a grapple and bite tactic instead of a slam attack. (they survived when the wizard panicked and dropped a fireball right in the middle of the party.)
A party of all clerics is going to have a lot of healing available so don't worry about slinging some damage their way.
If your group are role players, play up the differences in their religions. Maybe each religion wants to shine more than the others and wants their cleric to attract more followers.
Feel free to throw some non-undead bad guys at them.
Some that come to mind are...Grave robbers (rogues that sneak attack with shovels)
A spirit possessed Barbarian.
A trio of Witches that work with the necromancers, vampires etc.
Swarms. (A swarm of rats, bats or insects are hard to defeat with just divine magic)
Traps (Without a rogue, traps really become a challenge.)
Constructs. Intelligent undead will want a buffer between them and all that positive energy channeling.
Also, don't just use vanilla undead. I once hit a party with a mob of fast zombies that used a grapple and bite tactic instead of a slam attack. (they survived when the wizard panicked and dropped a fireball right in the middle of the party.)
A party of all clerics is going to have a lot of healing available so don't worry about slinging some damage their way.
If your group are role players, play up the differences in their religions. Maybe each religion wants to shine more than the others and wants their cleric to attract more followers.
Oh I got all kinds of nasty undead types to toss at them...
Bloodwraiths, Bonefiends, Eviscerals, Festulants, Rawheads, etc... (Palladium Books has some of the best ideas ripe for mining).
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Frsrs you said you didn't like Carrion Crown what gives
I May even have to toss in a cult of a slumbering cthonic nightmare of a god for giggles...
no... I said I do not like canned adventures in general. And that I doubt I would like Carrion Crown. Meaning I have never read it.
Why is there such a cult in the AP?
Yeah. Most of this stuff you've tossed out as fixes for your undead heavy campaign are in there, that's why it's funny. =p
Yeah. Most of this stuff you've tossed out as fixes for your undead heavy campaign are in there, that's why it's funny. =p
nothing new under the sun... and all that...
Well the undead horde originally was going to be part of a plot by the Vampire God Vald-Tegor to extend his influence. Now I think it will just be one part of an over arching plot by one of the two sides in the Minion War (the Demon/Deevil conflict) and the Cult is a just a distraction by a third faction trying to take advantage of the rising chaos of the MW.Ultimately I want this Campaign to lead into my next one (tentatively entitled "The Gunpowder Rebellion") which is designed to introduce the Gunslinger and firearms to the setting.
last four players have arrived...
Total party break down:
Half-orc Paladin of Rurga (Goddess of Truth)
Half-Elf Cleric of The Dragonwright (Dragon Gods)
Dwarf Oracle of Stone (Tongues Curse: Terran)
Human Inquisitor of Utu (THE Death god)
Wolfen (Anthro wolf) Druid
Kankorn (Anthro fox) Ranger
Elf Staff Magus
Human Fighter (Weapon Master)
Ogre Barbarian
Goblin Wizard (Conjuration specialist)
That's... quite a menagerie.
I want to reiterate the kudos offered by others - I've gotten ridiculously spoiled by our 4-5 man groups. Given the choice between playing in a 10 man group and not playing at all, I probably wouldn't play. Too much dozing off between combat turns and impossible to juggle subplots for everyone. Seriously, toss in a couple of key NPC's and you have a literal battalion wandering through the sewers/ruins/whatever.
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You have 10 players? You should totally run a West Marches style campaign.
Unhallow baby! and other such sites of unholy energy! Give the undead some shelters where chanelling will be less effective.
Evil shrines or cursed idols around which they can congregate. Undead are naturally strongest near the source of their creation/corruption.
I remember in the original Barakus, back then by Necromancer I believe, there was a cave covered by total magical darkness filled with zombies and ghouls. No worries right? Wrong, because the darkness also concealed a bunch or cursed pillars. Unless the pillars were destroyed the undead would just keep rising after destruction as if they had regeneration!
last four players have arrived...
Total party break down:
Half-orc Paladin of Rurga (Goddess of Truth)
Half-Elf Cleric of The Dragonwright (Dragon Gods)
Dwarf Oracle of Stone (Tongues Curse: Terran)
Human Inquisitor of Utu (THE Death god)
Wolfen (Anthro wolf) Druid
Kankorn (Anthro fox) Ranger
Elf Staff Magus
Human Fighter (Weapon Master)
Ogre Barbarian
Goblin Wizard (Conjuration specialist)
That's... quite a menagerie.
I want to reiterate the kudos offered by others - I've gotten ridiculously spoiled by our 4-5 man groups. Given the choice between playing in a 10 man group and not playing at all, I probably wouldn't play. Too much dozing off between combat turns and impossible to juggle subplots for everyone. Seriously, toss in a couple of key NPC's and you have a literal battalion wandering through the sewers/ruins/whatever.
Believe it or not I have a wait list of 20 alternate players.
I have been running this particular setting in one system or another for 30 years. The setting itself is a "living" one. My adventures are always epic, world changing events. The older gamers in the local game club are constantly re-telling tales of past adventures for the newer members.As to running 10 players at a time?
It is no different than running a 5 man team.
Maps & Minis (When they are used) are just to set up general locations of all involved and then promptly forgotten (by me any way).
Combat is fast, smooth, and riveting (mostly due to my penchant for narrative/descriptive terminology... It is not "the torture chamber walls are covered in blood" it is "the room resembles an abattoir the stench of death and decay hangs heavy in the air; heavy rusted iron chains hang loosely from their mounts, a rivulet of a thick crimson liquid; originating from the obsidian table perched atop the raised dais flows past your booted feet").
And should the party split up (as tends to happen so often when they are in a settlement) Then I do jump cuts to each group every 10 to 15 minutes (usually right at a cliff hanger moment). And because I keep the stories (sub-plots and all) moving forward every one wants to know what happens next not just to their characters but the others as well.
It does take time to develop the skills top run that many at one time but if you just add one extra player past your comfort zone and work on making that your new comfort zone and the repeating before you realize what has happened you are running groups as large as 30 to 50.
Seriously, toss in a couple of key NPC's and you have a literal battalion wandering through the sewers/ruins/whatever.
Wanted to address this on its own...
I do not often do "delves."Just for that very reason.
When one does come up it is usually as a means of ingress into a fortress or the party has split and sent the scouts/stealthy types in so they can open the gates from the inside.
Last time I ran a large party through a delve it was through my version of the Underdark and it was a the PCs at the head of a large army sent to squash the Drow Incursion.
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How DO you keep everything going then? I found it hard to keep up speed with 7 players. WHAT DO YOU KNOW?! :P
Seriously, I'm quite interested in how you manage to handle so many players. Is your group unusually well-organized? Do you have tricks to streamline combat?
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About Carrion Crown: you might like all the little bits without liking the whole. Just like a movie might have ten things in it you like, except you hate the director's style..
But it might be a good place to look for interesting tidbits.
How DO you keep everything going then? I found it hard to keep up speed with 7 players. WHAT DO YOU KNOW?! :P
Seriously, I'm quite interested in how you manage to handle so many players. Is your group unusually well-organized? Do you have tricks to streamline combat?
well it helps that I have an eidetic memory. And absolutely love complex plots to start with. Notes are also your best friend.
As to the group being organized? that varies...But I have certain requirements for character sheets that helps them out.
All special abilities, feats, and spells the character has need to be written/typed out for quick reference.
Summoning: players will have stat blocks for creatures ready in advance.
About Carrion Crown: you might like all the little bits without liking the whole. Just like a movie might have ten things in it you like, except you hate the director's style..
But it might be a good place to look for interesting tidbits.
I will keep it in mind.
Why do you need notes if you have an eidetic memory? What was the first sentence on the 3rd page of the 2e phb?
Complete Perfect Recall is a myth. Although Eidetic Memory does imply I have very good recall of specific scenes, events, sounds, etc... It is far from the Perfect Recall shown in popular media.
Notes (even if they are just one or two words) help with triggering recall in greater detail.But in Answer to your question.
1st sentence on page 3 of the 2e PHB:
Before we even start, I want to make sure everyone understands one very important fact: This is not AD&D 3rd Edition!
Well I tossed a zombie raid on the village which they repulsed with ease. But several of the village vips were taken in the raid.
Having an inquisitor of Utu in the party has created issues for the group. So at the moment they are searching for clues to the whereabouts of said vips.
last four players have arrived...
Total party break down:
Half-orc Paladin of Rurga (Goddess of Truth)
Half-Elf Cleric of The Dragonwright (Dragon Gods)
Dwarf Oracle of Stone (Tongues Curse: Terran)
Human Inquisitor of Utu (THE Death god)
Wolfen (Anthro wolf) Druid
Kankorn (Anthro fox) Ranger
Elf Staff Magus
Human Fighter (Weapon Master)
Ogre Barbarian
Goblin Wizard (Conjuration specialist)Pretty heavy on the magic side of things. Yeah things just keep getting better and better...
This is going to be one absolutely fun campaign by the time I get done.
I May even have to toss in a cult of a slumbering cthonic nightmare of a god for giggles...
Well, to be fair, most of the classes have access to magic. Throwing 10 players into a game should net at least 8 caster types of one kind or another.
I had an adventure site of a cursed temple. It had some undead in it. The curse was that every spell cast in the vicinity caused undead to spawn. The higher the spell level, the worse the undead. It becomes a vicious cycle that favors the martial players, since they can deal and handle damage better. The casters just caused more to pop up.
If you use this, be sure that even trying to buff from 30' (or more?) still causes the spawning.
/cevah
Man I would expect a major class of races... A lot of those don't get along at all.
A way to do hordes of undead is have them arriving in waves.
They can't just channel to kill all 80 of them at once. Plus you don't have to worry about your skeletons rolling a 20 on initiative and killing them all before they act.
Main necromancer (buffed defenses), his 2 meat shield body guards, and 5 elite undead are trying to do a fighting retreat from the village (with the kidnap victims).
Sub necromancers scattered around the area are sending their mini-hordes to support them. So every 1-3 rounds have another 10-15 HD of minor undead arrive from different directions.
Burning skeletons carry alchemist fire.
Fast zombies that close on one person.
Skeletons archers that shoot at everyone.
Regular zombies that grapple anyone in heavy armor.
Etc...
The cleric and paladin can still channel to kill lots of them. But then for that round they are not dealing with the main baddies. Plus they will quickly start to worry about running out of channels.
My oh my, with a party that big and divine-oriented they're going to be like a beacon shining out against the darkness. The problem is that light tends to attract moths to it. What I mean is, you can use their own power against them. I imagine they'll be gaining a reputation for themselves. And following that, I can see them being swarmed, even overwhelmed by the sick and needy, forcing them to expend some of their precious resources or turn people aside for a time. In a crapsack world like a zombie-apocalypse, there's never a end to those who need (or in some cases, simply want) a hero's help.
What about the bodaks? Looks like a zombie, acts like a zombie, reproduces like a zombie but in no way is it a zombie