Hey all,
I was wondering what would be the best way to build a tactical character that specializes in capturing opponents rather than killing them?
Thematically he should be a mercenary type of character who captures wanted guys (and monsters) for cash. He also does it for the thrill of the hunt. Get the bad guys in manacles quick and lock 'm up for good.
15-point buy
starting level 1
standard gold
I don't really know where to start but my first thoughts are fighter or ranger.
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Inquisitor is also very solid for that role. You could follow several Gods and still be a mercenary.
Mechanically, the Blade of Mercy trait is a must-have...but flavor-wise that's tied to Sarenrae and doesn't really fit too well with the bounty hunter thing (barring very specific flavor), in which case very few character types kick in until you can get a Merciful weapon (which are awesome, and made for this concept).
The Buccaneer Bard Archetype is one of the few ways to do this concept from 1st level on without the flavor being really odd. You'd need a Trait to grab Survival as a Class Skill, but it works very well aside from that.
Monk also definitely works from 1st level on, since all their damage is non-lethal if they like, though again you need a Trait for Survival. Tetori works particularly well.
If not going the non-lethal damage route (which is the best martial way to do this), you could try a net build, but that's got some problems of its own. A Wizard or Sorcerer could also fill this role easily with Sleep or Color Spray at low levels and other incapacitating spells as their level goes up, but that didn't seem to be the flavor you were looking for...
Perhaps Guide ranger. You will have a psuedo-smite ability that works on everything, use it in your bounty and profit.
This is what my build looks like right now:
Elf Ranger 1
HP 10 (d8 +1 Con +1 Favored Class)
Str 14
Dex 17
Con 12
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 7
Alternate racial trait: Spirit of the Waters (for Net proficiency)
lvl1 feat: Net Adept
Favored Enemy (humanoid (human)) (I hope I can talk my GM into summarizing all humanoids in one favored enemy)
Gear
Weapons: Net(for entangling), Sap(for nonlethal dmg), Blowgun(for poison), Longbow (for all kinds of special arrows)
Armor: Studded Leather Armor, Small Steel Shield
Interesting items to have handy: bear traps, manacles & fetters, rope, grappling hook, caltrops, and if I can afford them I'll take some tanglefoot bags.
Skills:
Climb +6
Craft (alchemy) +5
Craft (traps) +5
Handle Animal +2
Perception +7
Stealth +8
Survival +5
I also get a +4 on Swim checks and can always take 10 while swimming due to the Spirit of the Waters racial trait.
At 2nd level I'll take Archery as the combat style for feats like Point Blank and Precise shot (for upping my attack rolls with the Net, Blowgun and Bow)
At 4th level I'll take the animal companion hunter's bond and I'll take a contrictor Snake in the hopes it'll constrict enemies succesfully.
Any particular things to look out for if I go this route? The main thing I'm concerned about right now is crafting and using poison when my elf doesn't have any ability to safely do so and not the highest Con to withstand it.
Slayer from the ACG fills this role pretty much perfectly.
The Guide Archetype looks pretty neat... at least ranger's focus is less circumstancial than favored enemy. I'm a bit hesitant to lose quarry and my animal companion, but the replacement abilities look pretty okay... Hmm... It would fit my character as well since I envision him to be sort of a swamp elf (hence the spirit of the waters racial trait) Makes sense his background occupation is a guide through the swamps.
Slayer from the ACG fills this role pretty much perfectly.
It took me a while to figure out you are referring to a book that hasn't even been released yet.
I can't wait for that.
If it's really that much of a perfect fit for my character idea then I might be able to convince my GM of switching to that class when it comes out but before that I don't think he'll allow it.
Thanks for the tip though.
Inquisitor is also very solid for that role. You could follow several Gods and still be a mercenary.
Mechanically, the Blade of Mercy trait is a must-have...but flavor-wise that's tied to Sarenrae and doesn't really fit too well with the bounty hunter thing (barring very specific flavor), in which case very few character types kick in until you can get a Merciful weapon (which are awesome, and made for this concept).
Merciful weapon is a great idea! Thanks. With inquisitor I kind of worry about the 3/4 BAB.
The Buccaneer Bard Archetype is one of the few ways to do this concept from 1st level on without the flavor being really odd. You'd need a Trait to grab Survival as a Class Skill, but it works very well aside from that.
Looks quite interesting. But I'll need to build this character before I can see what it can and cannot do because I'm not very familiar with bards in general. It's nice that bards get spells like sleep and are proficient with a whip though.
Monk also definitely works from 1st level on, since all their damage is non-lethal if they like, though again you need a Trait for Survival. Tetori works particularly well.
This is actually a lot better than I thought.
If not going the non-lethal damage route (which is the best martial way to do this), you could try a net build, but that's got some problems of its own.
This is the route I've been going so far. It does seem to have some drawbacks but I think I like the flavour and it's interesting to think about getting ghost touch nets and some other stuff.
A Wizard or Sorcerer could also fill this role easily with Sleep or Color Spray at low levels and other incapacitating spells as their level goes up, but that didn't seem to be the flavor you were looking for...
At this point I'm thinking one could build an entire party around this idea :P
The Order of the Penitent is tailor made to do this.
Wow, this is quite excellent.
You can also take the bludgeoner feat and use blunt arrows (and other blunt weapons).
You have 12 HP (Rangers get d10 in Pathfinder)This is what my build looks like right now:
Elf Ranger 1
HP 10 (d8 +1 Con +1 Favored Class)
Oops! Good thing you pointed it out.
I'm very fond of the oft-overlooked Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bolas for this sort of character. (Though I suppose if you've got healing spells you could opt for a harpoon instead and rely on the game mechanics that make an instant fatality with the weapon unlikely.)
There are a lot of cool Exotic weapons out there for this type of character. Aklys, Harpoon, Bolas, Grappling Hook, Mancatcher, Lasso...
I'd like to be proficient in all of 'em but it's really feat intensive.I'm not sure what you're getting at btw with the healing spells and fatal damage bit.
I'm very fond of the oft-overlooked Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bolas for this sort of character. (Though I suppose if you've got healing spells you could opt for a harpoon instead and rely on the game mechanics that make an instant fatality with the weapon unlikely.)There are a lot of cool Exotic weapons out there for this type of character. Aklys, Harpoon, Bolas, Grappling Hook, Mancatcher, Lasso...
I'd like to be proficient in all of 'em but it's really feat intensive.I'm not sure what you're getting at btw with the healing spells and fatal damage bit.
He's saying that any damage that does not kill an enemy is, by definition, non-lethal damage. If you have cure spells, as long as you can get to the enemy before they bleed out, you can do whatever you want without killing them. The harpoon deals lethal damage, but as long as you have something to heal the HP damage, a harpoon could effectively disable and snare an opponent as well as anything else, and after the fact healing makes it, mechanically, like nothing ever happened.
Example: I stab opponent A in the kidneys, they pass out from blood loss. I use stabilize to patch their wound, shackle them and throw them in a wagon, and heal them right before I turn in the bounty. Who's to say he didn't have that scar before I found him? Kidney works now, he's got nothing to complain about.
On topic, I'm a fan of a ninja with an array of weapons, blunt and sharp, with the Bludgeoner feat. Nonlethal sneak attacks when you need them, lethal when you don't, all the skills and Ki abilities to get to your target, and a good enough charisma to negotiate for a higher price once you nab him. Plus, I've always been a fan of the image of a sneak attack with an earthbreaker. Yes, I know it's a martial weapon. Dip a level of Guide ranger and be happy with what the game gives you.
Also: Tanglefoot bags. Always tanglefoot bags.
Not sure if you're willing to take anything other than Ranger, but this is an NPC opponent I plan to use one day: The Enforcer. I believe he was generated with a 15 pt buy. I know I used NPC wealth by level and didn't select any traits, so, as a PC, he's pretty easy to upgrade.
If you take a trait for survival, and and swap some skill ranks around, he'd make a pretty mean bounty hunter, easily able to find people, track them down, and sneak up on them, before knocking them out and capturing them.
Also, for funsies, his name roughly translates to 'Non-lethal Fist' in Skyrim's Draconic language.
[Edit] I found the build progression for him, and I actually selected the Reactionary trait, so he has 1 trait left open, unless you change it of course. Also, I forgot to change his race in the PDF, he's actually a Half-Elf.
Here's his build out to level 13.
2) MoMS > Crane Riposte (bonus)
3) Ninja > Sap Adept
4) Ninja Trick> Weapon Training (Unarmed Strike)
5) Ninja > Dragon Ferocity
6) Ninja Trick> Flurry of Stars
7) Ninja > Dazzling Display
8) Ninja Trick> Pressure Points
9) Ninja > Shatter Defenses
10) Ninja Trick > Combat Trick (Sap Master)
11) Ninja > Knockout Artist
12) Ninja Trick > Unarmed Master
13) MoMS > Monastic Legacy
He's saying that any damage that does not kill an enemy is, by definition, non-lethal damage. If you have cure spells, as long as you can get to the enemy before they bleed out, you can do whatever you want without killing them. The harpoon deals lethal damage, but as long as you have something to heal the HP damage, a harpoon could effectively disable and snare an opponent as well as anything else, and after the fact healing makes it, mechanically, like nothing ever happened.
Ah, I see, that makes sense. Suppose the rest of the party deals predominantly lethal damage, would it be wiser to go for that route and not go for a non-lethal damage build?
Not sure if you're willing to take anything other than Ranger,
Ninjas are indeed pretty darn versatile. Would make a lot of sense, thematically as well. The build you propose is pretty interesting, but I feel it's more mechanic-based build. I think I don't really care all that much about non-lethal damage. I think the moment of capturing is what grabs my interest more if that makes sense. Kind of looking for the more memorable ways to do it than "I punched the bad guy 'till he fainted then I tied 'm up." I think that's why I'm more interested in using nets and traps, tanglefoot bags and such.
What I gather from what everyone has posted here is that there are so many ways to approach this it pretty much comes down to: Which class do I want to be able to do it? For now I'll go with the Ranger.
Thank you all for your input.
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Ah, I see, that makes sense. Suppose the rest of the party deals predominantly lethal damage, would it be wiser to go for that route and not go for a non-lethal damage build?
He's saying that any damage that does not kill an enemy is, by definition, non-lethal damage. If you have cure spells, as long as you can get to the enemy before they bleed out, you can do whatever you want without killing them. The harpoon deals lethal damage, but as long as you have something to heal the HP damage, a harpoon could effectively disable and snare an opponent as well as anything else, and after the fact healing makes it, mechanically, like nothing ever happened.
actually the funny thing is if you deal in non lethal damage it actually makes your character MORE valuable. if you hit for 10 points non-lethal, and your 4 teammates hit for 10 points lethal each, once you exceed there current hp they go to sleep. that means no diehard/ferocity to keep them in the fight. so if the target had 49 hp hes K.O.'d
What I gather from what everyone has posted here is that there are so many ways to approach this it pretty much comes down to: Which class do I want to be able to do it? For now I'll go with the Ranger.
Thank you all for your input.
True, there are many different ways to approach a bounty hunter-style character; hell I once made a 4-person mercenary party specifically design to be a threat against players as they attempt to track down and capture the player party. The party was, I believe, an archer Inquisitor, Magus, Rogue and a Monk/Fighter/Duelist all 10th level.
One of the ways no one has suggested yet, is a Magus that uses Merciful Spell to capture people. For example, a merciful, intensified shocking grasp delivered via a scimitar (with Keen or Imp. Crit) is a potent threat. I used this concept in the above 4-man bounty hunter party. With Merciful Spell, you could even play a Wizard blaster or Sorcerer blaster, who prepares/casts all spells with Merciful attached, letting you play a 'violent pacifist'; someone who loves the destruction she unleashes, but abhors killing.