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An evil sorcerer casts magic jar and possesses the king's brother in hopes of getting close to, and assassinating, the king himself.
Things go awry and the king's men stop the brother's assassination attempt.
The sorcerer, while still in the brother's body, casts shadow projection in hopes of resuming the attack on the king in another form.
What happens?
Is the king's brother freed, then the sorcerer's shadow animates? Does the brother's body collapse, helpless, while HIS shadow (under control of the sorcerer) animates and attacks the king? Or something else entirely?
While we're at at, what happens to other spell effects cast both before and after magic jar? Say the sorcerer cast mage armor prior to casting either magic jar or shadow projection. Does that spell carry over into the king's brother's body? Why or why not? Most spell effects cast on yourself are either personal or have a target of "you." At what point are you not considered "you?"
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I rule that any spell effect which is mental (such as Fox's Cunning, or a morale effect like Heroism) goes with the caster's mind, while spell effects which are physical (such as Invisibility and Beast Form) stay with the caster's body.
Once Magic Jar is achieved, however, the caster's body is no longer the comatose one he discarded on the ground, but the one he's possessing. Any physical spells now affect (and stay with) this body.
So in your case, say the Sorcerer was disguised via Alter Self, and had a cloak of Charisma +4.
Step 1: Cast Eagle Splendor, to get an overlapping +4 CHA, which will prevent immediate loss of bonus spells and other CHA-bonuses... at least for the next few minutes.
Step 2: Cast Magic Jar using the brother's ruby ring as a focus. The brother fails the save and is possessed. The sorcerer's collapsed (now ex-) body is still disguised by Alter Self, but Eagle Splendor comes with the sorcerer's possessing mind.
Step 3: The sorcerer-in-brother's-body casts Project Image - an illusion spell based on the caster's (current) form. The projection of the sorcerer-in-brother's-body appears, to be used for casting spells and observing through.
Step 4: During the assassination attempt, a dragon shows up, hitting the sorcerer-in-brother's-body with dragonfear, resulting in a shaken state. Further, he's hit by a Ray of Enfeeblement.
Step 5: Still shaken and enfeebled, the sorcerer returns to his body. He is still shaken. The brother is enfeebled. The projected image still looks like the sorcerer-in-brother's-body, but the link remains with the Sorcerer (now in his own body).
Interesting. I've never heard anyone go about it that way before. How would you treat an external effect that is not necessarily physical or mental, such as mage armor, a summoned monster, or a flaming sphere under the caster's control?
Does the brother's body collapse, helpless, while HIS shadow (under control of the sorcerer) animates and attacks the king?
This. Having not returned to his own body first, the Magic Jar spell remains in effect and the King's brother's soul remains trapped for the time being even if his body is currently vacant.
While we're at at, what happens to other spell effects cast both before and after magic jar?
I believe one of the developers weighed in on this in an earlier thread to say that, in his opinion, magical effects should remain with the original target soul regardless of which body it currently occupies or alternate form it has. I'd say that's probably the easiest way to go since it'll save a lot of hassles and relieve a poor GM from having to adjudicate all but the strangest of corner cases.
Kudos for the thread. Magic Jar and Shadow Projection deserve a lot more attention on these boards seeing how complicated they are.
Any chance you can link to that developer's post, Ambrus?
Having all the spell effects follow the "soul" of the caster certainly would be the easiest means of handling it, but what if said caster wants to hide his unconscious body in open sight? Such as by using disguise self or seeming to make the body look like an unconscious drunkard.
According to that ruling, doing such a thing would be absolutely impossible.
I think that in my games, I may let the caster CHOOSE what spell effects follow and which ones don't. It makes sense to me that a powerful caster would have a lot of control over what happens to his own magic.
Interesting. I've never heard anyone go about it that way before. How would you treat an external effect that is not necessarily physical or mental, such as mage armor, a summoned monster, or a flaming sphere under the caster's control?
The mage armor stays on the body it's cast upon, as it's a physical spell. However, the caster can dismiss it no matter what body he's in.
A summoned monster & flaming sphere is controlled by the caster, no matter what body he's in, or switches to during the spell duration. Why? Because control of a spell is a mental faculty, not a physical one.
To milk it, a caster could use Magic Jar to buff allies with "self only" physical-effect spells, by possessing them (willingly), then casting, say, Shield, and returning. The Shield effect, being physical, would remain with the body it was cast in, even after the caster hops to another body or returns to his own.
While we're talking about cheese, here are some other cheese items.
While we're talking about cheese, here are some other cheese items.
Your ability to make cheese is disappointing.
After an ally acts, use your standard action to possess them (willingly) and then a move action while in their body. This is a way to help give an extra move action on behalf of an ally, out of turn... such as to move an extra 30' while a bridge is collapsing or something. Granted, it's not terribly useful next round, as the ally can't act (from within the jar), and you need to use next round's standard action to re-swap... but there are still some situational advantages. Or, you could just keep control and cast spells.
It's a full round action to possess someone. No granting your allies extra movement here.
Use to possess a mind-controlled, fear-afflicted, or confused ally. Barbarian got dominated? Possess him and throw your enemies for a loop!
A caster in a barbarian's body? You still keep your own base attack bonus weapon proficiencies and feats. You won't be doing much else other than confusing your enemies.
Mix with summoning to possess physically powerful creatures, and thus have a strong, disposable body. Some creature types allow spellcasting + physical power. It basically turns Summons into Polymorphs. Though be sure to exit before the summon expires... the DM may rule you dead.
Or, you know, you could just summon the creatures, let them do their job while you ALSO cast spells. This also has the benefit of not leaving a defenseless body on the field to get fireballed.
Mix with Create Undead - you can possess undead!
This could work, provided you can maintain control of the undead.
Use to prove to the DM that HD is an in-game viewable mechanic (!!!).
Good luck with that. You can only tell creatures apart when they have four or more hit dice difference between them. You would have to have a room full of people from level one to twenty to really get this to work, and even then, it won't be fast as you have to do a lot of cross comparisons.
If you are going to make a run for the cheese, you are going to have to move faster.
Fair enough.
I only call it cheese because my player group would protest and/or roll their eyes at even those minor exploitations.
Relativity and all that.
My bad on the full-round action