I have the highest respect for FGG (all of you...even you, Skeerer!)Although evidently not quite enough respect to spell your name right. I would try to blame AutoCorrect if "skeerer" was a word. :P
Ia! Ia! :-)
I can sincerely say that as a project creator, my first and foremost goal is always to make something awesome, and within those parameters, to get it out as soon as humanly possible.
... It's the humanly part that's tricky. By their nature, Kickstarter projects rarely have much in the way of redundancy plans. When things take longer and cost more, its very painful to deal with. All I can do is try to keep people in the loop and focus on success, come hell or high water. When I hear about other projects slipping behind, or worse, going into freefall, I generally imagine that the project creators are really struggling, probably on multiple fronts.
None of that is any way to make excuses. I just think it's important to remember that Kickstarters are risk projects, for both creators and backers. If you can't tolerate some uncertainties, and you're not willing to encourage and cheer a limping project along, backing Kickstarters may not be a good hobby for you. But some people enjoy it, enough to back many, many projects, even though some don't quite go according to plan. To some people, it's like a horse race. For other people, it's about believing in that one special thing, and that's probably a lot harder to deal with it when it takes longer, or worse, begins to look like a wreck.
I wish FMG and their backers the best.
I'm one of the backers who won't be supporting FMG again. A lot of the sympathetic posts seem to be missing the heart of the complaint - there isn't a huge amount of complaining about it being late. The problem is the lack of communication as to why its late - total silence for months followed by a few, casual "here's some more art, book two should be ready soon" updates. For example, the first printed book was announced as due to ship last year - now he just ignores queries as to why that hasn't happened and when it will ship.
I feel taken for granted rather than a partner in something which wouldn't have happened without me. I don't need any personal details as to what went wrong - I just want to hear that Gary knows he's fallen behind, thar he has things in hand and that he cares about the delay. From reading his updates, I get the impression he thinks everything is fine.
I don't care if a kickstarter is late and fully understand that life can get in the way. That's not the source of angst here.
I can understand that. Still, just because you ask the questions doesn't mean he has the answers. I'm not saying FMG deserves a second chance or anything. My point was just to be realistic about what happens from here on out. Of course I sympathize with the backers. There is nothing good about projects falling behind and the publisher not knowing how to deal with it.
I can understand that. Still, just because you ask the questions doesn't mean he has the answers. I'm not saying FMG deserves a second chance or anything. My point was just to be realistic about what happens from here on out. Of course I sympathize with the backers. There is nothing good about projects falling behind and the publisher not knowing how to deal with it.
Maybe you're right. I try to be empathetic about these things (and I really dont think he owes me an explanation or a detailed blow-by-blow account of his personal life - an acknowledgement of the delay and updated timeline is all I'm looking for). I just find it difficult to remain positive and charitable given he went from such an active presence here and on his kickstarter page to nothing.
I really struggle to believe he hasnt read the various "when are the print books due?" posts. For my part, I'd be much happier to hear "2016" than "Here's some more upcoming artwork. Can't wait for you guys to see book 2!"
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And about FGG having two kickstarters going. The second one is an update of a Necromancer game book with some updated material. They are not starting from scratch. This is much like Rappan Athuk that was the third (and fourth) edition of the book - yes expanded even more than reloaded was but delivery on the Grandaddy of dungeons was fairly quick considering the quality of the product. Barakus will be the same.
This is different than someone who is starting from scratch and not making progress on a funded project and then starting another project.
I need to get book 6 for Way of the Wicked. I was also looking forward to Throne on Night, at least reading it. I can order the PDF for book 6, but it seems like they are not printing any more copies.
Has anyone heard from Mr. McBride? It would be a real shame if this talented small company fell by the wayside.
Any news would be cool...
Back to the OP - I'm also trying to buy books 5 and 6 of Way of the Wicked and I can't find any direction or explanation as to how to go about it.
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I can understand that. Still, just because you ask the questions doesn't mean he has the answers. I'm not saying FMG deserves a second chance or anything. My point was just to be realistic about what happens from here on out. Of course I sympathize with the backers. There is nothing good about projects falling behind and the publisher not knowing how to deal with it.
More than 'nothing good', it in facts hurts all future kickstarters from other publishers because once people have been burned, they're less likely to take that leap of faith again. I feel like an author/publisher owes it to the industry as well as to their customers to keep lines of communication open. Much can be forgiven when people aren't kept in the dark, and when people feel they are being ignored, they understandably feel disrespected and/or taken advantage of.
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Back to the OP - I'm also trying to buy books 5 and 6 of Way of the Wicked and I can't find any direction or explanation as to how to go about it.I need to get book 6 for Way of the Wicked. I was also looking forward to Throne on Night, at least reading it. I can order the PDF for book 6, but it seems like they are not printing any more copies.
Has anyone heard from Mr. McBride? It would be a real shame if this talented small company fell by the wayside.
Any news would be cool...
Okay, I normally would not post link to other storeson these boards, but since this has come up multiple times:
Way of the Wicked 5The print copies sold at the Paizo store were just PoD copies shipped to them by FMG.
Back to the OP - I'm also trying to buy books 5 and 6 of Way of the Wicked and I can't find any direction or explanation as to how to go about it.I need to get book 6 for Way of the Wicked. I was also looking forward to Throne on Night, at least reading it. I can order the PDF for book 6, but it seems like they are not printing any more copies.
Has anyone heard from Mr. McBride? It would be a real shame if this talented small company fell by the wayside.
Any news would be cool...
Okay, I normally would not post link to other storeson these boards, but since this has come up multiple times:
Way of the Wicked 5The print copies sold at the Paizo store were just PoD copies shipped to them by FMG.
Thank you so much - I wasn't even having success on ebay or running Google searches.
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I can understand that. Still, just because you ask the questions doesn't mean he has the answers. I'm not saying FMG deserves a second chance or anything. My point was just to be realistic about what happens from here on out. Of course I sympathize with the backers. There is nothing good about projects falling behind and the publisher not knowing how to deal with it.More than 'nothing good', it in facts hurts all future kickstarters from other publishers because once people have been burned, they're less likely to take that leap of faith again. I feel like an author/publisher owes it to the industry as well as to their customers to keep lines of communication open. Much can be forgiven when people aren't kept in the dark, and when people feel they are being ignored, they understandably feel disrespected and/or taken advantage of.
The "burned" feeling is very true. heck, I know what happens behind the scenes, and I am WAY leery of certain companies. I got burned on my first KS (Doom that came to Atlantic City), but Cryptozoic stepped up, and I ended up getting the game last week.
And Geddes has it right; as consumers, we vote with our dollars. If anyone feels a company isn't worth their consumer dollar, you have every right not to buy, to be angry, etc.
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It doesn't accomplish anything. I think what is meant by that statement is in dealing with the market place, unhappy customers means loss of business. (Especially when word travels.)
You will always have people that can't be pleased and are generally unreasonable. However, I think you will find that any kind of heart-felt correspondence from a publisher will go a long way with the majority of your customers.
Up until a few weeks ago, FMG went dark for several months. People don't want 4 page apology letters or a long dissertation on why delays happen. They just want something sincere.
Case in point, people have inquired for many months about the estimated shipping schedule for their printed books. They're not getting any kind of response that I saw as of yesterday. It makes people feel like they are not important.
I work in sales. And in that scenario, you are shooting yourself in the foot.
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Just finished looking through Throne of Night book 2 and it certainly looks really good. Quality work!
EDIT: For some reason when I first downloaded it I got 3 copies of the regular version (instead of one regular, one printer-friendly and one player handout). Went back and re-downloaded it again and got the three separate docs. So you may have to try twice if anyone else is having the same problem. *shrug*
Ditto on the download for book 2.
Has anyone heard when we can expect the physical copies of the books?
I got the physical books as well. My assumption was that we'd get everything in one shipment once all the books are done, but I don't know for sure what the plan was for shipping them.
I'm beginning to suspect we'll get our books once Gary runs a third kickstarter. It's hard to tell with no comment from the publisher, however his first kickstarter had stalled until this one funded - at which point the first suddenly progressed again. I find it hard not to conclude that he ran out of funds for the creature cards and used this kickstarter's proceeds to finalise that one. I suspect he now can't afford the printing and shipping costs.
The implication was that we'd get the physical books as they came out (one of his comments mentioned that the hardcopies would go out a couple of weeks after the pdf) I doubt that will happen now though.
I got the physical books as well. My assumption was that we'd get everything in one shipment once all the books are done, but I don't know for sure what the plan was for shipping them.I'm beginning to suspect we'll get our books once Gary runs a third kickstarter. It's hard to tell with no comment from the publisher, however his first kickstarter had stalled until this one funded - at which point the first suddenly progressed again. I find it hard not to conclude that he ran out of funds for the creature cards and used this kickstarter's proceeds to finalise that one. I suspect he now can't afford the printing and shipping costs.
The implication was that we'd get the physical books as they came out (one of his comments mentioned that the hardcopies would go out a couple of weeks after the pdf) I doubt that will happen now though.
This was my exact thought as well, Steve. Something is obviously very wrong up on Fire Mountain. Have you ever met an author who did not want to talk about their book coming to print?
I honestly hope that I am wrong.
I got the physical books as well. My assumption was that we'd get everything in one shipment once all the books are done, but I don't know for sure what the plan was for shipping them.I'm beginning to suspect we'll get our books once Gary runs a third kickstarter. It's hard to tell with no comment from the publisher, however his first kickstarter had stalled until this one funded - at which point the first suddenly progressed again. I find it hard not to conclude that he ran out of funds for the creature cards and used this kickstarter's proceeds to finalise that one. I suspect he now can't afford the printing and shipping costs.
The implication was that we'd get the physical books as they came out (one of his comments mentioned that the hardcopies would go out a couple of weeks after the pdf) I doubt that will happen now though.
This was my exact thought as well, Steve. Something is obviously very wrong up on Fire Mountain. Have you ever met an author who did not want to talk about their book coming to print?
I honestly hope that I am wrong.
I hope I am too. In my case, the negative conclusions ive drawn are a direct result of the lack of communication, I think.
One of the reasons ive taken this silent treatment so badly (probably irrational, but nonetheless real) was that Gary used to be all over the paizo message boards. Whenever way of the wicked was mentioned, it seemed like he'd jump in to comment. Now direct requests as to when the print books will be released aren't even acknowledged.
He's obviously hard at work building a time machine in order to get all the books out by March 2014.
Personally, the delay doesn't matter to me. I just want him to tell me what the new timeline is.
Well to be clear, it's just speculation on my part. I don't have much else, since Gary won't tell me what the actual answers are. :(
I got the physical books as well. My assumption was that we'd get everything in one shipment once all the books are done, but I don't know for sure what the plan was for shipping them.I'm beginning to suspect we'll get our books once Gary runs a third kickstarter. It's hard to tell with no comment from the publisher, however his first kickstarter had stalled until this one funded - at which point the first suddenly progressed again. I find it hard not to conclude that he ran out of funds for the creature cards and used this kickstarter's proceeds to finalise that one. I suspect he now can't afford the printing and shipping costs.
The implication was that we'd get the physical books as they came out (one of his comments mentioned that the hardcopies would go out a couple of weeks after the pdf) I doubt that will happen now though.
That's unfortunate, since a lot of people on these forums and the Kickstarter page (myself included) have sworn never to support another of McBride's projects.
I feel bad for people who started this adventure path and probably had to take a break as they finished book 1 and waited for book 2. And now, not as many, but probably several people will start book 2's pdf and will have to wait long stretches of time to run through books 3 - 6.
Personally, I look forward to buying this AP complete and running it straight through in 2019. [/end snark]
Edit: Honestly, I do want to buy this AP though.
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I feel bad for people who started this adventure path and probably had to take a break as they finished book 1 and waited for book 2. And now, not as many, but probably several people will start book 2's pdf and will have to wait long stretches of time to run through books 3 - 6.
This is why, regardless of the company, I won't start an adventure path until I have all of the adventure path's installments as well as any supplementary material that is produced. Waiting has two advantages, as I see it: 1) You don't have to stop midway through because of delays. 2) You're able to tweak and prep having the entire adventure path at your disposal.
stuff.This is why, regardless of the company, I won't start an adventure path until I have all of the adventure path's installments as well as any supplementary material that is produced. Waiting has two advantages, as I see it: 1) You don't have to stop midway through because of delays. 2) You're able to tweak and prep having the entire adventure path at your disposal.
Makes sense.
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I've backed something like 20 kickstarters with varying rates of timeliness (Rappan Athuk, DungeonaDay, Numenera, Razor Coast, Ultimate Psionics, Deep Magic, Legendary Games, Advanced Bestiary, Obsidian Apocalypse, Primeval Thule, and others...I may have an addiction). Kickstarter is not a purchase, it is not a hard timetable like a job in the so-called "real world." If you're treating it like that then you failed to read the very clear, upfront explanation of how kickstarter works. More than that, I recognize that for most 3pp this is a labor of love, not what puts food on the table. I know that Jeremy at Dreamscarred has had some tough tasks to handle within and outside the project, but I know when I get my limited edition, it'll take pride of place on my shelf and that I'll be thumbing through it when I'm old and grey. When I heard about Louis's wife my very first thought was "whatever time he needs, if I get it at all" - and I got a superb project anyway. I backed Razor Coast despite the warnings because I knew anything FGG put out would be worth the price. I'm still waiting on Rich Burlew and I feel for the guy, what with chronic illness and debilitating injuries.
I trust these guys' talent, I want a chance to enjoy what's in their head, and I feel privileged to patronize these artists, especially the ones who have a day job. If I'd bought these on Amazon's storefront it would be different, but I'm not shopping, I'm investing, and that's a greater risk for greater potential gain. Moreover, kickstarter is still new, efen for the companies that have a lot of publishing experience, and people are still figuring out what a realistic timetable even looks like, and how to jive that with the brand new notion of stretch goals which can throw initial projections way off as people get into the excitement of the final countdown for a project. It's a brave new world, and there've been some bumps. I'm happy to have been along for the ride with the share I bought, but it's the stock market, not the drugstore.
That said, Gary is among only two who have honestly frustrated me, along with Hyrum. And it's the issue of communication. Louis was very honest with us about his personal tragedy - I would have accepted "I have a serious personal issue." But the point is he said something. I've appreciated the updates from Jeremy too. It's unacceptable not to address backer concerns. Gary may be updating again finally, but he's ignoring our questions about print copies repeatedly. I'd accept ”the printer I used fell through, here's what I'm trying to do, I don't have a timetable yet." But I want ackowledgment of our concerns.
That said, I can take a pretty good guess why he's not responding. He's afraid of the reaction he'll get at this point, and considering the comments some people have made there and here, I can't say I blame him. The internet brings out the worst in some people.
That said, Gary is among only two who have honestly frustrated me, along with Hyrum. And it's the issue of communication. Louis was very honest with us about his personal tragedy - I would have accepted "I have a serious personal issue." But the point is he said something. I've appreciated the updates from Jeremy too. It's unacceptable not to address backer concerns. Gary may be updating again finally, but he's ignoring our questions about print copies repeatedly. I'd accept ”the printer I used fell through, here's what I'm trying to do, I don't have a timetable yet." But I want ackowledgment of our concerns.
This.
There have been a lot of complaints on this project, (some petty, some valid) but I think you'll find the majority of people here agree with this assesment totally.
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I wasn't a backer on this project, but I met Gary briefly at PaizoCon. He was very passionate about his product. Since he's been silent, I'm just hoping everything is ok with him and his family. If something has happened to him, his relatives may not know to send updates on his projects or social media sites--I don't think my husband would, for instance. At any rate, I'm sending well wishes his way.
And in case Gary is reading, if it's a publisher issue and not a health issue you are dealing with, then feel free to reach out for help. We want to see you succeed. Let me know if there is something I can do for you.
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