Enchantress


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How does 1 level of cleric give this?:
Spells: Able to cast 2nd-level divine spells and 2nd-level arcane spells.

Liberty's Edge

Friend of the Dork wrote:

How does 1 level of cleric give this?:

Spells: Able to cast 2nd-level divine spells and 2nd-level arcane spells.

Trickery Domain gives a version of Mirror Image as a Domain power, which counts as a 2nd Level Divine Spell for purposes of prerequisites. Wizard 3rd gives the 2nd level Arcane Spells.


Deadmanwalking, where is that ability and the ruling stated?


Those who have rolled a 12 or higher on their perception notice that there are tunnels in this area that are goblin sized. Medium sized creatures have to traverse them bent over but anyone who is small can traverse them sin problemas.

Liberty's Edge

Elrawien Lantherion wrote:
Deadmanwalking, where is that ability and the ruling stated?

It's part of the general rulings on Spell-Like Abilities, found here, and the fact that Mirror Image is a 2nd level spell.

The ability itself is just listed under the Trickery Domain.

Taking a level of Cleric with the Trickery Domain also gives Bluff and Diplomacy as class skills, among others, which seem solid for the character as presented.


Thanks, I am going to have to read up on it. She gets those skills for being an enchantress wizard as well.

Liberty's Edge

Elrawien Lantherion wrote:
Thanks, I am going to have to read up on it. She gets those skills for being an enchantress wizard as well.

You get a bonus for being an Enchantress. This will stack with the +3 Class Skill bonus from a Trickery Cleric if you put a rank into them, making you quite good at them, as seems appropriate.


Very nice! I am wondering what they have for Calistrians in the Gods of the Inner Sea that comes out in a few weeks.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Friend of the Dork wrote:

How does 1 level of cleric give this?:

Spells: Able to cast 2nd-level divine spells and 2nd-level arcane spells.
Trickery Domain gives a version of Mirror Image as a Domain power, which counts as a 2nd Level Divine Spell for purposes of prerequisites. Wizard 3rd gives the 2nd level Arcane Spells.

Sorry, but that's BS. The copycat power is it's own spell-like ability, it is not Mirror Image, it just works like one of the images from that spell. In any case this power does not allow you to cast a 2nd level cleric spell.

Even if you do allow a spell-like ability to count as a spell for this purpose, The copycat power itself is not Mirror Image spell-like ability (like the Vrock has).

However, using the same FAQ entry, a Tiefling with Darkness as SP and Cleric 3/Wizard 1 etc would be able to do this. Not that I would allow it in my game, Mystic Theurge is a powerful PRC if all you have you give up is a single caster level.


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Friend of the Dork, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't RAW. The SLA counts as being able to cast x level spells for prerequisites was not how most of us were playing before it was handed down, but it was handed down and has been affecting changes in places like PFS where you can't house rule. I see the upsides and the downsides to the ruling, but calling BS is rude and incorrect.


Gregory Connolly wrote:
Friend of the Dork, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't RAW. The SLA counts as being able to cast x level spells for prerequisites was not how most of us were playing before it was handed down, but it was handed down and has been affecting changes in places like PFS where you can't house rule. I see the upsides and the downsides to the ruling, but calling BS is rude and incorrect.

I call BS if I see something I think is violating the spirit of the rule, but it's the message, not the messenger, no offense was intended for you. Where is the ruling that says the Copycat power counts as Mirror Image for the purpose of PRCs? Is that just a PFS interpretation?

Grand Lodge

Legal in PFS.


I wonder if the caster abilities not stacking with MT is a way to keep the class balanced?


Elrawien Lantherion wrote:
I wonder if the caster abilities not stacking with MT is a way to keep the class balanced?

You mean if not getting domain powers and school specialization powers balances out with getting a spellcasting from another class at only -1 caster level? Not really.

In any way, you should check with your DM.


I never thought about it that way. The problem is that we use Herolab since it helps all of the sheets to be uniformed and does the calculations.

Grand Lodge

Herolab does have some problems.

Generally, a great program, but not foolproof.

Liberty's Edge

Friend of the Dork wrote:

Sorry, but that's BS. The copycat power is it's own spell-like ability, it is not Mirror Image, it just works like one of the images from that spell. In any case this power does not allow you to cast a 2nd level cleric spell.

Even if you do allow a spell-like ability to count as a spell for this purpose, The copycat power itself is not Mirror Image spell-like ability (like the Vrock has).

It's legal per the rules since it lists itself as 'functions like Mirror Image'. You can dislike this, but it's true.

Friend of the Dork wrote:
However, using the same FAQ entry, a Tiefling with Darkness as SP and Cleric 3/Wizard 1 etc would be able to do this. Not that I would allow it in my game, Mystic Theurge is a powerful PRC if all you have you give up is a single caster level.

I disagree. Without something like this, Mystic Theurge is...seriously mediocre. Yeah, you have lots of spells, but being 3 levels down on your spellcasting hurts quite a bit. This debatably does make it too powerful, but I tend to disagree given the complete lack of other class features of any value in the Mystic Theurge class. Spellcasting is great, but having to max out one casting stat is hard enough that your secondary class is likely only good for buff spells and maybe healing.

Grand Lodge

No Pathfinder PrC compares to the power of Base Classes.


I wonder if there are any plans to beef up the MT? I think that the idea of blending arcane and divine magic is a great one.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Friend of the Dork wrote:

Sorry, but that's BS. The copycat power is it's own spell-like ability, it is not Mirror Image, it just works like one of the images from that spell. In any case this power does not allow you to cast a 2nd level cleric spell.

Even if you do allow a spell-like ability to count as a spell for this purpose, The copycat power itself is not Mirror Image spell-like ability (like the Vrock has).

It's legal per the rules since it lists itself as 'functions like Mirror Image'. You can dislike this, but it's true.

Friend of the Dork wrote:
However, using the same FAQ entry, a Tiefling with Darkness as SP and Cleric 3/Wizard 1 etc would be able to do this. Not that I would allow it in my game, Mystic Theurge is a powerful PRC if all you have you give up is a single caster level.
I disagree. Without something like this, Mystic Theurge is...seriously mediocre. Yeah, you have lots of spells, but being 3 levels down on your spellcasting hurts quite a bit. This debatably does make it too powerful, but I tend to disagree given the complete lack of other class features of any value in the Mystic Theurge class. Spellcasting is great, but having to max out one casting stat is hard enough that your secondary class is likely only good for buff spells and maybe healing.

I wonder if having access to spells is seen as a greater benefit than channeling or other class abilities?


Elrawien Lantherion wrote:
I wonder if having access to spells is seen as a greater benefit than channeling or other class abilities?

For me it would very much depend on which class we were talking about. Something like the sorcerer loses out on a lot as their bloodline abilities go all the way to 20.

Arcane Sorcerer9/Cleric1/MT10 ultimately loses free speed metamagic, +2 spell DC to their preferred school of magic, free use of staves/wands with their spell slots, a level 9 spell known and a couple of bonus spells known. I am not sure a bunch of low level cleric spells are really worth it especially with the split casting stat. You could go Empyreal but it is a pretty crappy bloodline as your main focus.

Ceric 9/Empyreal Sorcerer1/MT10 loses out on some channel dice. Channel is generally terrible and just gets worse as you go up in level. 11 levels of arcane casting is totally worth giving up channel as a useful ability. You do delay access to your level 8 domain powers as you will be Cleric3/Sorcerer1/MT10 before going Cleric but that isn't terrible.


I've played a "classic" mystic theurge (wiz3/clr3/MT X). It's underwhelming. You're a utility Swiss army knife, but you've got no big hits. It really just depends on how you want to play.


She is an enchantress wizard debating about going into MT.


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
I've played a "classic" mystic theurge (wiz3/clr3/MT X). It's underwhelming. You're a utility Swiss army knife, but you've got no big hits. It really just depends on how you want to play.

She is much too active and self-centered to allow anything to steal her thunder. She is the best, at least in her mind, in what she does.

Liberty's Edge

Elrawien Lantherion wrote:
She is much too active and self-centered to allow anything to steal her thunder. She is the best, at least in her mind, in what she does.

The Wizard 3/Cleric 1/Mystic Theurge X is a lot better mechanically.


Plus she would have a whip, total dominatrix, lol.


With the new evangelist class that came out in Gods of the Inner Sea would that be a good combination wizard/evangelist?

Liberty's Edge

Elrawien Lantherion wrote:
With the new evangelist class that came out in Gods of the Inner Sea would that be a good combination wizard/evangelist?

Don't have the book yet, but it sure sounds pretty awesome from what I've heard. Of course, you need to wait for 5th level before taking it, given prerequisites.


This may seem like a very odd choice but consider the Threnodic Spell feat. It allows you to affect undead with your charm/enchantment spells which they are normally immune to. That is the one thing that really screws over alot mind controlling magic, that being undead. With this feat you could mass daze a pack of ghouls, wights, specters, ect. or some similar effect.


There is a feat that would allow me to charm animals too isn't there?


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Elrawien Lantherion wrote:
With the new evangelist class that came out in Gods of the Inner Sea would that be a good combination wizard/evangelist?
Don't have the book yet, but it sure sounds pretty awesome from what I've heard. Of course, you need to wait for 5th level before taking it, given prerequisites.

There is one feat I need to take before the class. It looks like the class stacks with another class that is taken.

Liberty's Edge

Elrawien Lantherion wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Elrawien Lantherion wrote:
With the new evangelist class that came out in Gods of the Inner Sea would that be a good combination wizard/evangelist?
Don't have the book yet, but it sure sounds pretty awesome from what I've heard. Of course, you need to wait for 5th level before taking it, given prerequisites.
There is one feat I need to take before the class. It looks like the class stacks with another class that is taken.

Yep, but it also requires either 3rd level spells, a +5 BAB, or 5 ranks in a skill. So there's that.


The 5 ranks is easier to get but then by the time she is 5th level she would have 3rd level spells. It really is a great class and I think that it fits her.


3 ranks in Knowledge Religion, isnt bad for the necessary feat.

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