I have a third level elven wizard who is specialized in enchantment magix and has the controller abilities. I need help figuring out what feats she should be taking now. She is 3rd level and has Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus Enchantment. Her barred schools are evocation and necromancy.
They are allowed.
Oh and she is bonded to her rapier. She is a worshipper of Calistria and is known as the Wasp.
Do metamagic feats really help out charm spells?
She will be getting a bonus feat at 5th level.I had thought about MCinto cleric but I think I give up too much.
What does persistent spell do?
I picked enchanter because of the archetype of controller. I always wanted to play a mindbendee in 3.5 and now I had my chance. There are like 6 more in the party so she does not need to be the face though she could.
I looked up the feat. Very interesting. What about bouncing spell?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
By RAW, multiclassing into Cleric (Calistria) 1 and taking the trickery domain, you qualify for early entry into Mystic Theurge at Wizard 3/ Cleric 1. That can be a whole lot of power and win for a 1 level dip.
For an enchantment specialist the 2 best metamagic feats for landing spells are Persistent Spell and Heighten Spell.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Have you considered dipping into Witch to pick up some mind-affecting debuff Hexes?
or dipping into serpentine sorcerer (or cross-blooded serpentine/undead bloodlines) to unlock your charm spells and allow them to effect several types of creatures that they otherwise can't.
casting charm person on a dire bear or a skeletal ogre cracks me up thematically.
I dont think that the ickyness of snakes or undead fits with her character.
Does a mystic theruge's wizards abilities like charming touch advance as they take levels in the class?
I found out that we might be going mythic so that is another thing to consider.
Have you considered dipping into Witch to pick up some mind-affecting debuff Hexes?
That would be an interesting dip, the only thing is that hexes don't scale if you dont rise in witch levels.
By RAW, multiclassing into Cleric (Calistria) 1 and taking the trickery domain, you qualify for early entry into Mystic Theurge at Wizard 3/ Cleric 1. That can be a whole lot of power and win for a 1 level dip.
For an enchantment specialist the 2 best metamagic feats for landing spells are Persistent Spell and Heighten Spell.
Heighten spell is the only metamagic feat that boosts DCs right?
I would either go Cleric to Mystic Theurge or stay Wizard. Suggestion is the key spell because it isn't limited by creature types. I would want to take Heighten Spell as my bonus feat and take Preferred Spell (Suggestion) with my character feat. Don't neglect the Linguistics skill as an Enchanter, it is as important for you as it is for a Conjurer.
|
No, the charming touch and other wizard class features do not rise in level as you advance in mystic theurge. The only time class features such as domain powers, wizard school powers, Oracle mysteries ect.. increase in power with prestige class levels is if the prestige class has a feature that specifically states they do, such as how the Hellknight Signifier has an ability that allows levels in it to increase the effectiveness of domain powers, mysteries etc... Since mystic theurge sadly has no such class feature(s), channeling, domain powers and wizard school powers do not level up when you take levels in the class. Only your spellcasting does. Hope that helps some.
As for the build, I would not dip sorc if it dosen't fit your RP concept. Mystic Theurge is certainly a viable route, but you'll need some wisdom to make it viable. If you have dumped wisdom I'd stay away. You'd need, at the least, 14 wisdom before items to make it worthwhile, and even then if all you have is 14 you'd need to invest some serious gold into boosting it with stat-boost items. Personally, I'd go straight wizard. Your school powers advance and you get more feats and spells. That reminds me, if you do go mystic theurge you also won't get bonus spells from leveling up, and instead will have to spend gold to "purchase" scrolls and spellbooks to learn your higher level spells from until your back taking wizard levels again. So yeah, I'd say just keep taking wizard.
As for feats, persistant spell and heighten spell will be your best friends. Also, if there is a specific spell you like, consider getting spell perfection for it at level 15+ to apply metamagic to it for free. Good candidates are suggestion(or it's mass counterparts), Dominate Person and Dominate Monster. You'll also want spell penetration and greater spell penetration if you plan on doing offensive casting(and as an enchanter, you do.), as SR can be a real pain at higher levels. You'll also want spell focus enchantment + greater spell focus enchantment to pump those DCs up as unlike sorcerers you don't have any class features that do that on their own and you're not a Kitsune. Finally, if you go the spell perfection route you'll need a third metamagic feat. Since you're an enchanter, Extend Spell is a good one for you as it will make your dominate effects last longer and Quicken spell is good for every caster period.
Also, if you have the room, consider the opposition research discovery for the Necromancy school. Since you lack the DC increasers that sorcs and Kitsune get naturally, a good way to "boost" your save DCs(which is VERY important for an enchanter) is by debuffing enemies before you hit them with your enchantments. Necromancy, by far, is the best school for doing this and the opposition research arcane discovery(which can be taken at level 9 or any level after where you would get a feat, including wizard bonus feats.) lets you "un-prohibit" the necromancy school and gain back full, normal access to it. In fact, in 3.5e it was customary to never ban necromancy as an enchanter due to the awesome synergy between necromancy's debuffs and enchantment's save-or-sucks.(well, this and that there where multiple feats that boosted the DCs of enchantment, necromancy and illusion spells at the same time.)
Also, as an alternative to opposition research, there is the leadership feat. Most Dms ban this, so it's likely not a viable route, but if your GM allows it and you have ok charisma you could use it to get a cohort that could debuff enemies for you. Good options for this would be a necromancy-specalist wizard, a witch, or a "bad touch"/debuff-focused cleric. The wizard has the added bonus of being a way to add additional spells to your spellbook, if you're a collector-type.
Yes, heighten is how you raise DCs and Persistent forces a second save if they succeed on the first one. No, your wizard class abilities do not advance if you multiclass as anything.
EDIT: Ninja'd about multiclassing and Takhisis said it better.
If religion at all fits with your theme, mystic theurge with trickery domain will give you a huge load of versatility.
Otherwise, i second Improved Initiative. Its a fantastic feat, and better for enchanters than anyone else. Its like aminiature quicken spell that doesnt cost slots.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah, but Mystic theurge is, as I stated, only worth it if the OP's character has the wisdom for it. This isn't 3.5e where they can just go into it as a wizard/archivist and have one casting stat. If the OP's character has a wisdom less then 14 then there is honestly no point to going into mystic theurge. Even if they have good charisma, Oracle is usually a horrible target for MT as the ONLY way to get early entry from one is the Wood mystery, and I don't think that fits the fluff the OP is going for at all...
If the OP's character has the wisdom, then yes, MT is totally worth it and I recommend it fully. However, if the OP's character dose not then it will just end up making them waste excessive resources to pump a stat that would otherwise be a dump stat for them, and therefor becomes not worth the trouble.
Yeah, but Mystic theurge is, as I stated, only worth it if the OP's character has the wisdom for it. This isn't 3.5e where they can just go into it as a wizard/archivist and have one casting stat. If the OP's character has a wisdom less then 14 then there is honestly no point to going into mystic theurge. Even if they have good charisma, Oracle is usually a horrible target for MT as the ONLY way to get early entry from one is the Wood mystery, and I don't think that fits the fluff the OP is going for at all...
Fully agreed.
|
|
Good to know. So yeah, if the OP could provide us with their character's wisdom score, we could help them out better, I think. Mainly because then we could know whether or not mystic theurge is actually viable for them and talior our advice accordingly. I mean, if there character dumped wisdom entirely, then the overwhelming consonances that they should go mystic theurge which is being espoused now would quickly become an overwhelming consensuses that they should not, so that is kinda an important detail for this discussion.
Her Wisdom is 14 and she is an elf. I figured I wanted some kind of bonus to her Will since it wouldnt do for a controller to control another controller.
The Dark Queen is honored!
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Ah. Good to know. In that case, Mystic Theurge will actually be do-able if you want to go that route. If you are at all interested in mystic theurge you should go into it knowing one thing: you will not use cleric casting for offensive magics. While 14 wisdom is enough to go into theurge, you will never have the spell DCs to make offensive cleric casting worthwhile. However, that dosen't matter. Why? Because the cleric list happens to have a lot of good spells that are not attack spells to begain with or happen to offer no saves. Simply put, your wizard spellcasting, with all it's enchantments, is what you'll use for your offensive spells while cleric will offer you versatility, and loads of it. A +2 wisdom item, which is not that hard to get at later levels, is all you'll ever need for wisdom boosts if you don't plan on offensive casting cleric spells(which, IMO, you don't.). This will get you 16 wisdom, which is all you'll ever need.
Why? Because by the end of mystic theurge, you'll essentially be a level 11 cleric and level 13 wizard, and since you're using wizard as your offensive class the best choice for you would be to continue on in wizard or take a PrC that boosts wizard casting after you finish MT. Unlike 3.5e, MT is the only dual-caster progression class in PF, so you won't be able to continue boosting both cleric and wizard casting at the same time. While you could "alternate" levels this ultimatly makes you weaker, as you lose too many caster levels on both ends and never access the highest spell levels as a result. Thus, it becomes wiser to pick one caster class to be your "main" focus class and another one that you add on for extra versatility. Since you have more intelligence then wisdom, and want to focus on enchantment anyway, wizard becomes your "focus" class while cleric comes in to give you extra versatility. Level 6 cleric spells is more then enough to be considered "versatile" and you can also still prepare your cleric spells in higher level wizard slots if you want to metamagic the heck out of them due to mystic theurge's class features.
All and all, I'd say that if you like the idea of mystic theurge, go for it. Your character already seems pretty set up for this too. She is a worshiper of Calistria and has already fashioned herself after her in a way(with the "wasp" motif and all) so transitioning her faith into a position in the church would be both logical character development and would make sense for the character.
As far as build advice, just build your character as a standard enchanter, using the advice we gave, and treat your cleric casting as an added source of versatility. It will give you a LOT of extra things to do, and you'll have more spells per-day then anybody. Just be sure, however, to obtain that +2 wisdom item as soon as you can. You won't ever need more then +2 if you intend to focus on wizard more then cleric like I said, but the +2 is vital to get.
Also, as for why mystic theurge over straight wizard? One word, versatility. You are a 11th level cleric and 13th level wizard, essentially, by the time you finish. For the simple loss of ONE caster level, you get 11 levels of prepared, divine spellcasting that nets you level 6 spells, with what is most likely the most extensive divine spell list in the game. You lose very little and gain a whole lot. While your wizard school powers(but not spellcasting!) will be somewhat weaker while leveling up in mystic therurge, the fact you get level 6 cleric spell access is WELL worth that sacrifice.
However, you will have to spend quite a bit of gold to be good at being a mystic theurge as you'll need to both buy a +2 wisdom item, and you'll need to purchase all your wizard/sorc spells while leveling up in MT. If you can spair the gold, though, it is a powerful option to have.
I was looking at the Trickery domain, how good would the charm be? I think there is a lust subdomain right?
I agree Heighten Spell < Persistent Spell < Both.
Charm is a good domain for you to go with Trickery. I wouldn't take the Lust sub-domain. It is gonna be a wisdom based DC though it does scale with level, so of the 3 higher level powers (which you never get by the way) the best by far is the Love sub-domain power, and the worst by far is the Lust sub-domain.
Also, if there is a specific spell you like, consider getting spell perfection for it at level 15+ to apply metamagic to it for free. Good candidates are suggestion(or it's mass counterparts), Dominate Person and Dominate Monster.
Most of Takhisis's post is good advice, but Dominate Monster is a horrible choice for Spell Perfection. Spell Perfection has a built in "9th level limit", so you wouldn't be able to use it on Dominate Monster anyways.
Does spell penetration stack with the elven ability?
Very nice!
If we do go mythic and I do go MT, would being both hierphant and archmage be good or just stick to archmage?
Interesting, I will have to head up on those abilities, XMorsX
A question about Charm Person, does it affect aasimars, catfolk, dhamphirs and other similar races?
Ok, that is interesting to know, BBTroll, there is a catfolk in the group that isn't too fond of her so I might need to help him be a little more friendly to her, lol.