Oh for f&~&'s sake guys.
>:)
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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"Damage from lava continues for 1d3 rounds after exposure ceases, but this additional damage is only half of that dealt during actual contact (that is, 1d6 or 10d6 points per round). Immunity or resistance to fire serves as an immunity to lava or magma. A creature immune to fire might still drown if completely immersed in lava (see Drowning)."
Fire Resistance 1 makes you immune to lava/magma.
"Lava Effects
Lava or magma deals 2d6 points of fire damage per round of exposure, except in the case of total immersion (such as when a character falls into the crater of an active volcano), which deals 20d6 points of fire damage per round.Damage from lava continues for 1d3 rounds after exposure ceases, but this additional damage is only half of that dealt during actual contact (that is, 1d6 or 10d6 points per round). Immunity or resistance to fire serves as an immunity or resistance to fire, lava or magma."
so= no.
See, dude, that's why you don't use the non-canon PFSRD as a source for things like this, I used the actual Paizo cite.
So, still wrong.
Actually, the d20PFSRD is the more accurate resource, the SRD is rife with errors.
For example, if you open up your physical copy of the Core Rule Book and flip to page 444 it actually says, "Immunity or resistance to fire serves as an immunity to lava
or magma."Now, I only have the 1st and 4th printing of the CRB so I downloaded the errata pdf for the 5th printing and double checked and nothing was changed that I could find. So, RAW, if you have fire resistance 1, you are immune to lava/magma. Obviously, this is a mistake, but it further shows that the d20pfsrd is the more reliable resource in transcribing the rules.
Nope, you're still wrong, because 5th isn't the most recent printing. My PDF says what the PRD says; d20pfsrd.com is an update behind, which further shows that the PRD is the more reliable resource in transcribing rules.
I just checked the PRD and it has the line I put in bold.
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The only lava rules you'll ever need.
Hilarious. Especially how the rules work in Vampire. Thanks for that.
PRD for the win!
I just checked the PRD and it has the line I put in bold.There's an extra "resistance" there that removes the problem.
Still a possible issue with boiling working on the Red Dragon, but none with lava.
Native outsiders don't benefit from humanoid-targeting spells. I nix that rule for the sake of letting my players have the fun of turning the ifrit monk into a giantess that punts orcs like footballs.
I never had much of a problem with alignment. In fact, I really like it in Pathfinder/D&D because it gives philosophy physical form. It works because the entire game multiverse is built around it. Most problems I witnessed usually occur when either the GM or players are applying alignment wrong. If alignment truly had no impact on how the game world worked, then I would agree it's a terrible abstraction, but that's not the case.
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I still see it.I just checked the PRD and it has the line I put in bold.There's an extra "resistance" there that removes the problem.
Still a possible issue with boiling working on the Red Dragon, but none with lava.
I'm looking at that screenshot of the PRD, second paragraph of "Lava Effects", second sentence, says "Immunity or resistance to fire serves an an immunity or resistance to fire, lava, or magma." Unless that's not the part I'm supposed to be looking at, it looks to me like it doesn't say that Fire Resistance 1 will result in total lava immunity.
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I still see it.
Yes. It says immunity or resistance to fire acts as immunity or resistance to lava. Resistance no longer makes you immune.
Native outsiders don't benefit from humanoid-targeting spells. I nix that rule for the sake of letting my players have the fun of turning the ifrit monk into a giantess that punts orcs like footballs.
I do this too. Aasimar/tieflings etc. are Humanoid (Planetouched).
Rakshasa and Oni are still Outsider(Native), though.
I have discovered a new one... though its not a rule but a lack of a rule.
The fact that a guy in full armor can fire a bow with all of the speed and accuracy of some one in light or no armor.
New home rule for the next game I GM. some form of penalty to shooting bows while wearing medium or heavy armor. something like an additional penalty to all iterative shots or you can only fire a bow as a standard action while wearing heavy armor.
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Why? Who does that help?
Why? Who does that help?
Yeah, I'm seconding this. The archer is already rewarded for using light armor for a smaller ACP, and no speed penalty (less important for a ranged character, but it still comes up), and no real loss of AC. If the archer wants to wear full plate, I say let them.
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Why? Who does that help?
Because martial classes can't have nice things!
Why? Who does that help?Yeah, I'm seconding this. The archer is already rewarded for using light armor for a smaller ACP, and no speed penalty (less important for a ranged character, but it still comes up), and no real loss of AC. If the archer wants to wear full plate, I say let them.
Thirded. The fact that archers are going to have a decent dexterity score in order to hit on ranged attacks is already going to push them towards wearing lighter armor; no point in letting that Dex Bonus go to waste.
I'm also not seeing any reason that wearing armor is incompatible with using a ranged weapon in the first place. As far as I'm aware, armor wouldn't restrict one's ability to use a bow any more than it would most other weapons. The main reason historical medieval archers wore light armor was that medieval soldiers were commonly expected to provide their own equipment, and archers generally didn't come from social classes that could afford heavy (and therefore expensive) armor.
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That heavy armor SHOULD be making it harder for anyone to hit with anything.
Perhaps because not having your intestines slither out onto the floor every time some measly footman waves a sharp stick at you is worth the inconvenience inherent in wearing a great big bulky bunch of metal plates strapped to you?
Try a suit of full plate on for real. Or even a modern military bullet-resistant vest. You'll understand.
Perhaps because not having your intestines slither out onto the floor every time some measly footman waves a sharp stick at you is worth the inconvenience inherent in wearing a great big bulky bunch of metal plates strapped to you?
After a few levels you can stand still and let that footman stab you repeatedly in the gut and still find your intestines in fine working order. Hell, you can be a Barbarian and have abs strong enough to stop bullets.
What's your point?
As a rule, armor tends to be heavy and restricting. However, most people who wear it on a daily basis get used to it. That's why Armor Proficiency is a thing in Pathfinder.
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Try a suit of full plate on for real. Or even a modern military bullet-resistant vest. You'll understand.
1) Yes, I, as someone with levels of commoner, doubt I could fire a bow as effectively in plate armor. Because I don't have proficiency with heavy armor. Proficiency implies you're trained in fighting with "big bulky metal plates strapped to you", and thus don't have a problem fighting in them.
2) We're playing a fantasy RPG, not a medieval combat simulator. The mechanics should, thus, conform to the tropes and such that we'd expect from a high-fantasy story. One of those things is the Plate-armor clad knight. By imposing a penalty to attacks, which is largely unseen in the types of high-fantasy tales, you're moving away from the purpose of the mechanics.
That heavy armor SHOULD be making it harder for anyone to hit with anything.Then why the F@~! would you even wear it if you can't fight in it?
Because the armor making it a little harder to fight is better than decapitation making it a LOT harder to fight.
Mind you weapons like greatswords should make it easier to HIT someone, and axes should have an easier time with armor, and....
Archery is already well in the realm of superhuman, with the ability to do a manyshot without accuracy penalty, or even the ability to nock/draw/aim a full attack's worth in 6 seconds.
If we were attempting realism, Rapid Shot should've been Rapid Strike, for melee rather than ranged combat.
But clearly we aren't. All hail the bow.
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Archery is already well in the realm of superhuman, with the ability to do a manyshot without accuracy penalty, or even the ability to nock/draw/aim a full attack's worth in 6 seconds.
If we were attempting realism, Rapid Shot should've been Rapid Strike, for melee rather than ranged combat.
But clearly we aren't. All hail the bow.
Uh...actually that's a perfectly reasonable rate of fire. Maybe a bit slower than real archers can achieve, to be honest.
And by the same token plate armor is surprisingly non-restrictive.
And the cataphracts and samurai would strongly argue that archery isn't notably impaired by armor...
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Archery is already well in the realm of superhuman, with the ability to do a manyshot without accuracy penalty, or even the ability to nock/draw/aim a full attack's worth in 6 seconds.
If we were attempting realism, Rapid Shot should've been Rapid Strike, for melee rather than ranged combat.
But clearly we aren't. All hail the bow.
Uh...actually that's a perfectly reasonable rate of fire. Maybe a bit slower than real archers can achieve, to be honest.
And by the same token plate armor is surprisingly non-restrictive.
And the cataphracts and samurai would strongly argue that archery isn't notably impaired by armor...
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Now do it with a bow that has a draw that wouldn't bounce off of my hoodie.
Uh...you saw the part where he shot through chain mail, right? Because that's a thing that happens in that video.
Now a real war-bow might have a stronger draw than that...but the archer would likely be a bigger, stronger guy, too. And even if it would be slower...Pathfinder archers go like a third that speed before 11th level (well, barring magic) and only manage to make two thirds that speed even by 20th and using magic.
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Sohei monk can reach that speed actually.
At 16th level, a Sohei, and only a Sohei, can theoretically hit 9 attacks in six seconds (10 with Ki). Which is still not as much as that. More like 5/6 that speed. Zen Archers max out at 7 (8 with Ki), everyone else at 6.
Anyway, I was just trying to use hyperbole to imply that speed shooting archery is not really relevant to discuss the realism inherent in PF's rules for combat archery.
It'd be akin to counting how many times a boxer can punch a bag in 6 seconds (assuming he's trying to set a speed punching record or something) and then toting that as an example for whatever.
It's a bit more relevant considering it goes through chainmail at close to that speed...and even if real combat archery is slower (it probably is), real people tend to cap out at 6th level or so...which means equivalent people in Pathfinder cap out at around 1/3 that speed.
I'm not really arguing that archers should get more attacks...just that the number they do get is actually reasonable from a realism perspective.
A red dragon that can swim through lava is harmed by sunbathing in the desert.
Also harmed by jumping into some hot springs or a pot of boiling water.
Fair enough, regarding speed. I didn't think people could get decent draws and aim that quickly.
Thanks, Cunningham's law.
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Why? Who does that help?Because martial classes can't have nice things!
Stop complaining you munchkin! How you dare to ask for nice thigns to martials? obviously you have an agenda. you are a bad roleplayer and are having badwrongfun!.
What would you ask next? attaking more htan once afther moving 10 fts? pfff
And now excuse me, I do not have time for this, my exhasuted wizard have to move 30 ft and bend reality to his will,... twice.
Archery is already well in the realm of superhuman, with the ability to do a manyshot without accuracy penalty, or even the ability to nock/draw/aim a full attack's worth in 6 seconds.
If we were attempting realism, Rapid Shot should've been Rapid Strike, for melee rather than ranged combat.
But clearly we aren't. All hail the bow.
Uh...actually that's a perfectly reasonable rate of fire. Maybe a bit slower than real archers can achieve, to be honest.
To be actually fair with reality, that bow have a low draw, it woould not bypass much armors. And it is doubful you can do that with a longbow.
Now do it with a bow that has a draw that wouldn't bounce off of my hoodie.Uh...you saw the part where he shot through chain mail, right? Because that's a thing that happens in that video.
far from an expert, but I do not think Chainmail is the best armor against piercing weapons, particulary arrows.
I don't even know what this means.Rules I dislike
Muchkining is frowned upon.
Dmers that disallow metagaming. Obvious Metagaming doesn't seem right, but players can and should be allowed sly metagaming.My guess would be "It's a troll, use fire!"= bad
"Hmm, we can't seem to kill it- I know let's burn it!"= good.
Yeah, something like that, a narrative justification so that character actions make sense.
Or even a modern military bullet-resistant vest. You'll understand.12 years active duty.
Then we're coming from the same place, though you were there longer.
Imagine you've got SAPI plates strapped to every portion of your anatomy, which is essentially what full plate is like, as far as restriction of movement goes. Even if you magic away the weight issues you still lose a lot of mobility.
It's simply harder to move around and complete tasks that require flexibility and fine motor control with the stuff on than it is without it, no matter how used to it you get. Doing combatives in full battle-rattle is no joke.
Would an archer in full plate be at a speed and accuracy disadvantage compared to a an archer in street clothes? The answer pretty much has to be yes, doesn't it?
They are there for somewhat balance, but when I look at people in normal life who are in hardened leather or leather compared to someone in plate which has actually been specifically designed for them...the person in plate normally has higher mobility.
I reconcile this by thinking that part of dexterity in armor is sometimes not about getting out of the way, but rather making sure the blow falls on an armored part. When you're wearing a leather breastplate or a chain shirt, dexterity is more valuable, because in addition to getting out of the way, you can do things like take a blow aimed at your forearm on your shoulder instead, because the shoulder is armored.
With a suit of full-plate, there are a lot fewer weak points like that to worry about protecting (you can still make sure a strike aimed at a joint hits a plate instead, but you no longer have any 'unarmored' spots to protect.)
This reasoning absolutely falls apart if examined too closely in light of touch and flat-footed ACs. But a lot of the other rules justifications and abstractions break down too. It's enough to have a reason to suspend disbelief.
Would an archer in full plate be at a speed and accuracy disadvantage compared to a an archer in street clothes? The answer pretty much has to be yes, doesn't it?No, it doesn't.
Ah. I guess that handwaves that then.
Ah. I guess that handwaves that then.Would an archer in full plate be at a speed and accuracy disadvantage compared to a an archer in street clothes? The answer pretty much has to be yes, doesn't it?No, it doesn't.
Is the plate armor properly fitted to the wearer? How heavy is the plate? What kind of visor does it have? How well fit are the street clothes? Are they woolen, baggy shirts and pants, are they lose linens, or is it a tight-fitting corset? If it's heavy, poorly fitting plate armor with a tiny visor it would probably impair the archer, but so would heavy and baggy clothes.
As others have said: Speed? Yes. Accuracy? Not necessarily.
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Or even a modern military bullet-resistant vest. You'll understand.12 years active duty.Then we're coming from the same place, though you were there longer.
Imagine you've got SAPI plates strapped to every portion of your anatomy, which is essentially what full plate is like, as far as restriction of movement goes. Even if you magic away the weight issues you still lose a lot of mobility.
It's simply harder to move around and complete tasks that require flexibility and fine motor control with the stuff on than it is without it, no matter how used to it you get. Doing combatives in full battle-rattle is no joke.
Would an archer in full plate be at a speed and accuracy disadvantage compared to a an archer in street clothes? The answer pretty much has to be yes, doesn't it?
Full plate is more flexible than you think it is. It's heavy, yes (hence the speed penalty) but full plate is specifically crafted for each user, to fit them like skin. The joints are very well articulated and slide almost perfectly, a person in a well fitted (and since only Knights, i.e. minor nobility actually wore it, that was ALL suits of full plate) suit of full plate will notice no appreciable drop in manual dexterity whatsoever.
This isn't always the case in-game, but some things need to be handwaved so the game doesn't become bogged down in minutiae.
Would an archer in full plate be at a speed and accuracy disadvantage compared to a an archer in street clothes? The answer pretty much has to be yes, doesn't it?No, it doesn't. It can be, but it doesn't have to be.
Yes it does. While knights being helpless turtles is a ridiculous exaggeration, there's a very good reason that runners, gymnasts and fencers try to shed every last ounce they can. No matter how well balanced or crafted, 40 pounds of steel is going to slow you down quite a bit.
This isn't always the case in-game, but some things need to be handwaved so the game doesn't become bogged down in minutiae.
To which I have no objection, but this whole tangent came up because somebody wanted to houserule that minutiae into their game for the sake of realism.
I'm familiar with the historical reality of 'full plate' to be sure. It just clashes with common game practice of looting a mook (potentially a mook of another species) and putting his plate armor on and then going out to fight in it as if it were custom fitted. I'm content to handwave it at my table because it really doesn't bother me all that much, but I can accept that some people find that particular suspension of disbelief hard to manage.
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It just clashes with common game practice of looting a mook (potentially a mook of another species) and putting his plate armor on and then going out to fight in it as if it were custom fitted. I'm content to handwave it at my table because it really doesn't bother me all that much, but I can accept that some people find that particular suspension of disbelief hard to manage.
The rules actually handle this:
Full Plate: This metal suit includes gauntlets, heavy leather boots, a visored helmet, and a thick layer of padding that is worn underneath the armor. Each suit of full plate must be individually fitted to its owner by a master armorsmith, although a captured suit can be resized to fit a new owner at a cost of 200 to 800 (2d4 × 100) gold pieces.
Emphasis mine.
There may be an exception for magic armors resizing to fit their wearer, but magic is sort of a universal handwave.