Hello everyone,
I am concocting a 15-point buy Dwarven wizard (enhancement subschool) whom has a goat familiar. I'm trying to get everything out of the goat familiar in terms of usefulness (I know, the goat is a suboptimal choice, but I'm trying to see how far I can push it) The character's starting level is level 1.
My dwarf has Toughness as a first level feat, and a starting Con of 15, he can use his physical enhancement school ability to raise this to 16 every day. This makes sure that my goat familiar has a HP of at least 6 at level 1
The goat has a starting AC of 14, which I can enhance through casting Shield or Mage Armor (which spell would be the better choice overall?)
The goat has a starting strength of 12, which gives him the following attack stats: Gore attack +2 (1d4+1) damage.
My dwarven wizard can use his Augment ability to give the goat either a +2 to strength or a +1 to natural armor bonus.
My dwarf has a rank in Craft (alchemy) for a +8 total. This is for the purpose of creating alchemist's fire and tanglefoot bags. My question is, can my goat technically use these? (By carrying/throwing stuff with it's mouth or horns for example) and maybe use stuff like Caltrops?
In addition my dwarf is probably going to take Craft Wondrous Item at level 3 and might create a Belt of Physical Might for the Goat.
Is this worth it?
And suppose I cast Anthropomorphic Animal on the Goat and make that permanent through Permanency at some point, would it from then on be able to use the UMD skill?
I want to actually use the goat as much as I possibly can, for delivering touch spells, being a flank buddy or dropping/throwing nasty items. I'm considering casting [polymorph] spells on it a lot, but I'm wondering whether this is going to give trouble I haven't foreseen?
I know this stuff is probably done better with a different familiar, and chances are high I'll take a better familiar at level 7 (Earth Mephit would fit my character thematically)
As suboptimal as it is, tell me what you guys think.
Is there something a goat might be really good at?
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In addition, I am considering using a lot of 'personal' range spells like Burning Gaze and/or Fire Sneeze... and touch spells like Force Punch and Vampiric Touch... is this worth it when performed by a goat?
The idea is that I just want to baffle my GM with this character, just to show everyone how badass a terribly silly dwarf with a goat can be.
Anthropomorphic Animal won't work by RAW since your goat familiar becomes a magical beast, and the spell only works on animals. In terms of survivability it is as frail as most familiars... being a quadruped it's harder to trip, but that's pretty much it. It can carry 43 lbs. as a light load though, which might be handy for the average wizard.
Mage Armor is way better than Shield, since you can cast it long before entering dangerous areas and don't have to waste the 1st round protecting your familiar, but you may pick up both anyway.
I have to say, I'd love to see this character in play. I mean, really, a goat? The WTF moment alone would be totally worth it, and as a GM I would certainly try to make this as hilarious as possible :)
I have to say, I'd love to see this character in play. I mean, really, a goat? The WTF moment alone would be totally worth it, and as a GM I would certainly try to make this as hilarious as possible :)
Ghehe yeah that's kind of what I'm going for here. But at the same time I don't want this familiar to be completely useless.
Thanks for the bit about the anthropomorphic animal spell, I guess that's out of the picture now.
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I like goats and rams. You could go Satanic with it, which is so Metal.
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Anthropomorphic Animal won't work by RAW since your goat familiar becomes a magical beast, and the spell only works on animals.Except...
Share Spells: The wizard may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch spell) instead of on himself. A wizard may cast spells on his familiar even if the spells do not normally affect creatures of the familiar's type (magical beast).
I don't see why you think it's so suboptimal. It has normal reach so can help Flank and take advantage of AoOs,
and can deliver Touch Spells without first provoking an AoO when entering their square.If you do get Improved Familiar, you could even get an Earth Elemental in the form of a Goat (same stats as Elemental),
and have it just spontaneously transform one day or something, i.e. be the same Familiar.
Huh...
That reminds of, "the goat from hell". A creature I have created for later use in my campaign, as a "special session" kind of.
It really depends on how "deep" you want to go with your familiar.
If you are going to replace it with a mephit, then things are easier. For the mephit-route I would suggest crafting a circlet of persuasion and putting ranks in UMD for wands. Then, the familiar spell feat is like a cheaper quicken.
If you want a flank buddy, you should instead get an imp or a quasit. I think these two are more combat oriented.
Should you stay with the mighty goat, be sure to check the Evolved Familiar feat that gives it a 1-point evolution of your choice (and can be taken multiple times). Spells that improve its mobility and defences are all nice. Also check out the equipment you can give it and know your options.
@Quandary: Oh, thanks, kinda missed that!
The goat should totally get the fiendish template, and then you take Evolved Familiar (requires Cha 13) to give it an evolution from the Eidolon's list, like a 1d6 bite attack, or pounce (!).
:-) ...Well, Familiars aren't really melee pets, but Reach Evolution can be useful...
Actually, Goat isn't on their normal Change Shape list,
but if the GM approves getting an Imp with Improved Familiar that has Goat as an option for Change Shape (say, instead of Boar),
just say that it was polymorphed into a Goat the whole time, but has finally revealed it's true nature... :-)
Hmm... many interesting ideas. Do you guys think it is possible for the goat familiar to deliver spells at reach if it takes the Reach evolution?
And if the share spells ability allows me to cast spells on my familiar, that aren't meant to be cast on magical beasts, does that mean I could also cast Enlarge Person on my goat?
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From the title I thought this was going to be about creating cheese and getting milk.
1) Yes, why not. It already has normal Reach (5'), Reach Evolution would give it 10'
2) Yes, that's exactly what it's supposed to be for.
From the title I thought this was going to be about creating cheese and getting milk.
I prefer stinky cheese myself.
Creating cheese and milk is indeed obviously part of roleplaying this character :P
How does this feat progression look?
lvl1 - Toughness
lvl3 - Evolved Companion (Reach evolution)
lvl5 - Improved Initiative
lvl5B- Craft Wondrous Item
lvl7 - Improved Familiar (probably Earth Mephit)
lvl9 - Dazing Spell (metamagic)
lvl10B- Improved Share Spells
FYI, Enlarge Person would not really work on an Imp in Goat/Boar form, because even though Enlarge Person isn't technically a Polymorph and thus could otherwise stack with a Polymorph, it has a line saying it doesn't stack with Size increasing magic, which a normally Tiny Imp using Beast Shape to be a Small Size Goat qualifies as. But Enlarging a Small Creature really has no point anyways, because it just becomes a Medium Creature with the same Reach and Space.
But Enlarging a Small Creature really has no point anyways, because it just becomes a Medium Creature with the same Reach and Space.
Yeah I figured... Oh well. It seemed like a nice idea on first notice.
There's still all kinds spells at higher levels like frightful aspect and animal growth... I'll figure something out.Maybe having a goat for 20 levels becomes viable if I simply choose the right spells to buff/transform it. I believe it should be possible to use UMD if I cast Monstrous Physique or Form of the Dragon...
Saving my feat slot for something other than improved familiar might be nice. But I'll have to check if it can be done.
Well, like I said, getting an Imp Familiar means you can have Hell Goat when it Shapechanges into that form (most of the time) and you can have it switch back to Devil form to use UMD. OK, by RAW you could have Hell Boar, but since AFAIK a Boar is more powerful than a Goat, I don't know why any GM would not let you change it so it could Shapechange into a Goat form instead.
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If you're crafting, give the familiar the valet archetype. Then you can craft faster, and it has your teamwork feats. :)
You can also use Share Spells to cast Beast Shape or Dragon form to turn it into more powerful forms.
IMHO, trying to turn your Familiar into 'more powerful forms' is a waste,
unless maybe you're a Barbarian with an Eldritch Heritage Familiar...
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The best part of a goat familiar?
If it dies you won't have to wonder what's for dinner tonight.
If you're crafting, give the familiar the valet archetype. Then you can craft faster, and it has your teamwork feats. :)
Yes! This is excellent!
I never knew familiar archetypes existed.Only thing I wonder about now is, how does a goat craft stuff? :P
Guess it will be very awesome as soon as I go Earth Mephit or Imp or whatnot.
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It makes arms and armor by headbutting the metal into shape. XD
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And you will never have to mow the lawn again...
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A game I'm running has an NPC with a capybara valet familiar along these same lines (using the donkey rat stats). His bite does garbage damage, but he has a decent Acrobatics and is used to deliver touch spells, flank, and use aid another in combat. Laying caltrops, retrieving dropped items, aiding another, etc, are all good uses. I've even tried intimidation to demoralize when desperate, though at Cha 4 and size small, you can imagine how that turned out.
If injured, he just withdraws and hides. Getting killed is always a risk, but if enemies want to waste attacks on the giant rodent, then go for it, man. Spells like Mirror Image can go a long way to keeping your buddy alive. A goat has a decent Strength and can easily wear barding, too, if you want to have some made. They won't be bothered by it as long as the armor check penalty is 0, even without proficiency. CRY "HAVOC!" AND LET SLIP THE GOATS OF WAR.
Note that there are some feats for familiars that can be swapped out for the feats they start with. In this case, Peaches (that's the capybara's name) started with Critical Conduit instead of Skill Focus.
Abusing the Valet's ability to copy your teamwork feats is fun. Allied Spellcaster, Escape Route, Lookout, etc, are all pretty great.
As for making cheese - which, let's face it, is the most important part - a cheesemaking kit should be easy to buy and carry around; basically a bottle of culture, some cloths, and a wooden press or two.
With 1 rank of Craft (Cheesemaking), which is a class skill for +3, plus let's say a +4 Int bonus, and your goat uses Aid Another to add +2 (or buy a Masterwork cheesemaking kit), you're looking at a +10 bonus on your roll out of the gate. Taking 10 that's a total result of 20.
A "superior" item has a DC of 20, which we know you can make automatically as long as you're allowed to take 10. A result of 20 x a DC of 20 means 400 sp of work per week, or about 57 sp of work per day.
According to the rule book, a 1/2 lb of cheese costs 1 sp, so that's about 28.5 lb of cheese per day of work. Obviously your goat isn't pumping out a quarter of her weight in cheese ever day, so this is ridiculous.
However, you aren't making any mere typical cheese, the sort that gets listed in common adventuring gear tables. No sirree, you're making TOP QUALITY "superior" cheese here, which is obviously worth a lot more. Essentially what this means is that you can set your own price, up to the limits of what you can achieve via your craft roll, and adjust the volume produced accordingly.
Note that goat cheese usually takes at least a couple weeks to age, preferably more for the stinky stuff, but spending a day off making a check could represent cracking open a wheel of cheese that you already had on the go, and starting the next batch.
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To "get everything" out of your goat familiar I suggest a strong purgative and laxative.
;-)
As for making cheese - which, let's face it, is the most important part - a cheesemaking kit should be easy to buy and carry around; basically a bottle of culture, some cloths, and a wooden press or two.
This is REALLY cheesy......
;-)
Pit barbeque or curried goat, both are delicious.
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I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned that cashmere comes from goats. If you're going to have a goat familiar helping you with crafting and delivering touch spells, it might as well be a luxurious goat familiar, while you're at it.
So...silly things to do with a goat...
1. Your goat has a Gremlin Bell on its collar.
2. You tie a rope to his horns and have him run circles around NPC's to entangle/trip them
3. Your goat makes called shots on peoples hands (goat bites hurt like the dickens, let me tell you)
3. Your goat makes steal attempts to bite/chew objects made of fabric
4. Your goat is used as an improvised grappling hook (probably only works once)
5. Your goat takes the Splintering Weapon feat and applies it to horn gouges for bleed damage (horn/antler weapons count an Fragile)
6. Your PC takes the Splintering Weapon feat and wields the goat as an improvised two-handed weapon (again, may only work once)
7. Milk your goat, use the milk to create an improvised floor trap (as Grease)
8. Your goat has a slingshot mounted between her horns (damage as sling, familiar rolls to aid another on attack rolls)
9. Apply Truecolor dye to the goat.
10. Feed the goat a Steadfast Gut-Stone.
11. Apply the Fainting template (after convincing the DM to let you create it, of course. I'd suggest Improved evasion, but the goat becomes prone)
12. Cast Mirror image on the goat, sell the resulting herd of goats for extra profit.
That's enough to be going on with, I should think. :)
Cast Transformation on him and turn him into the Goat of War.
Well, I know what I'm doing on my next character... :)
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You guys are amazing! Thanks for your comments I had the best time reading :P This is going to be crazy amounts of fun! All of your advice have been splendid!
Be sure to tell us how this turns out, btw. :)
Be sure to give your goat familiar a Charisma boosting item, I mean, after all, you want her to look good when you
Goat: takes as many ranks in 'Sleight of Hand(sic)' as possible and skill focus as well. Who knows what it'll rip off in a crowded city or even in the heat of battle?