I'll be GM for our next AP which will be shattered star...
We got together last weekend and rolled up characters, and I'm a bit concerned about our lack of a dedicated caster.
We have a Magus, Alchemist, Rogue, and Fighter.
Can the party make do with partial casters ?
Or are there going to be some problem area's I need to prepare for ?
No other advice ?
From my experience, APs work with any group composition… as long as the GM is ready to tweak a few things here and there. The AP usually does a good job at presenting workarounds when the easiest solution forward is to cast a spell.
Healing and restoration spells may be problematic for your group, so I'd make sure to sprinkle potions/scrolls/wands of cure restoration spells throughout the campaign. I'd also gently push the PCs towards taking UMD so they can use these.
It should represent little work for you and I think it's much better than forcing a player to play something else than what they intend on playing.
The lack of a full arcane caster will actually make it easier in quite a few places since there's a lot of
The group I'm running lacks a true arcane blaster. Witch, but that is so much more a debuffer. They've done well so far... They do have a solid healer.
The path gives you several options for characters that could be added as npc hangarounds/cohorts... Natalya is a sorceror, and available early.
Hmm, your party is without both a 9 level arcane caster and a 9 level divine caster, and on top of that it has a rogue...
Unless your DM starts changing things you are going to have a very serious problem at the half of book 2 and afterwards (or maybe book 3+ i am not sure since i don't have the builds).
Hmm, your party is without both a 9 level arcane caster and a 9 level divine caster, and on top of that it has a rogue...
Unless your DM starts changing things you are going to have a very serious problem at the half of book 2 and afterwards (or maybe book 3+ i am not sure since i don't have the builds).
I'm going to be DM'ing...which is why I asked the question....
Can you elaborate ???
I'm trying to be prepared so that this doesn't just become a source of frustration for both me and the players :)
3 out of 4 have weak will saves, most times (at mid+ levels) rogues are a little more useful than an NPC class, not having control, problem solving and status removal spells (because of the lack of 9 level spellcasting) really shows at higher levels.
In addition your party doesn't have anyone that can use wands of CLW right of the box.
I am not saying that it can't be done (most APs are relatively easy) but you really need to be careful with encounters.
For example at the beggining of book 3 the party faces 3 seugathi, that means TPK for your group.
Another example of a likely TPK is the fiendish seugathi in book 2, also the "Sorshen" at the end of book 2.
I am sure there are other places that your party is going to have serious problems.
My prediction (assuming moderate optimization and normal circumstances) is that your party is going to make book 1 into a cake walk and start having real problems from the middle of book 2 and forward.
I don't know if i covered you, if i didn't please tell me so.
Just looked up the seugathi.....I can see your point :(
Not sure I see the problem with "Sorshen"...that's a fail I'm looking foreword to :)
Just looked up the seugathi.....I can see your point :(
Not sure I see the problem with "Sorshen"...that's a fail I'm looking foreword to :)
I am not talking about *THAT TRAP*, i am talking about the final encounter of book 2.
I am not talking about *THAT TRAP*, i am talking about the final encounter of book 2.Just looked up the seugathi.....I can see your point :(
Not sure I see the problem with "Sorshen"...that's a fail I'm looking foreword to :)
BUGGER....I hadn't seen that encounter yet...
I had an idea to replace the NPC Andel with an NPC version of a character I had created intending to run her in shattered star...
She would play the same basic role as Andel...but would have a bit more utility...may have to give that further thought...
If you're gonna have a party NPC, I'd suggest something full divine, Cleric or Oracle. Solves the healing problem, and helps a bit with avoiding some of the nasty status effects of low will saves. While I can't help with the seugathi, seriously there is like no effective defense against that aura that I can find, protection against evil should prevent some of the nastier Brain-whammying that 'Sorshen' and other enchantment based will-save spells and effects can cause.
I am of the opinion that adding, running, RPing and maintaining a GMNPC in order to not spend your time severely altering the AP, adds enough spent time so that it defeats the original purpose.
I do not agree with leo1925 about the reletive time taken to adapt a AP compared to running a npc. But these are personal opinons. You have four players, which is what the AP is designed for. Make minor changes, and let the chip fall. Maybe next time they will act like a team. If they cannot co-operate to create a party, will they act as a team in the AP?
I do not agree with leo1925 about the reletive time taken to adapt a AP compared to running a npc. But these are personal opinons. You have four players, which is what the AP is designed for. Make minor changes, and let the chip fall. Maybe next time they will act like a team. If they cannot co-operate to create a party, will they act as a team in the AP?
It's more a matter of "lack of experience".
One player has many years of experience...but is something of a "power gammer"One has about six years experience...but is more focused on roleplay.
One has two years experience...and...well...he's the kind that always plays a "kender" regardless of actual race and class.
And one has one year of experience...but started as an eighth level Cleric...which was a bit overwhelming for a new player.
Several are indeed very "head strong" and want to be the one that smites the baddy (funny no one ever plays a Paladin)
The NPC I am thinking on is inspired by Sage/Tessa (with some Sherlock thrown in for good measure).
Expert 5, then into Sleepless Detective.
She is not meant to solve the problems by her own power so much as able to advise and give them the information they need to hopefully learn to ACT as a team.
EDIT: Although the NPS is not a caster, she is meant to have a high UMD (she has the trait that allows her to use Int instead of Cha for UMD)
I'm hoping to equip her to handle some of the effects that they are lacking spellcasting options to counter.
We're halfway through book 3 and have only had one character death. We have 2 bards, barbarian, paladin archer, cleric and alchemist. The alchemist is the most headstrong and is the one death. I've kept them back one level and it's been fine (they're also 20 point buy). Paizo adventure paths assume your party is made of relatively new players and that they aren't optimized.
And 4 PCs, not 6 and with 15 point buy, not 20.
The NPC I am thinking on is inspired by Sage/Tessa (with some Sherlock thrown in for good measure).
Expert 5, then into Sleepless Detective.
She is not meant to solve the problems by her own power so much as able to advise and give them the information they need to hopefully learn to ACT as a team.
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. PCs hiring NPCs used to be a pretty common element of the D&D game - running one as an adviser and healer rather than leader or planner is not a bad idea.
Instead of presenting this as an option right away, consider waiting until they express a desire for help. Let them adapt to the adventure path's environment. Then it's their idea even if you really did have this NPC waiting in the wings as an assistant. Just make it known that you expect them to adapt to the challenges you put to them and that options like NPCs for hire exist. Some groups never think of it.
You could check up on the web expanded stuff with this AP.
There's a cleric in there that would certainly be right up your alley in terms of aiding the party.
I did infact find him...and as much as I like the "Sage" character idea, I think Jasper is the way to go.
He was designed for the AP in the first place, fills a MUCH needed hole in the group, functions as a cohort (2 levels behind the players by the time he hooks up with them) and fit's later installments well due to his back story and focus....besides, he sounds like a lot of fun from my end to roleplay ;)