Shards of Sin (GM Reference)

[wordelo]

they found and returned Lockerbie's brooch and completed the side quest and gained his aid against the derro.

They decided to go after the tower girls. they are thinking this area is not connected to the crow. tried to request lockerbie's aid, he denied saying the deal was for him to aid against the derro and to come to him when they are ready. they just defeated ayala last session and went into dungeon level 1 against the mites.

[tbug]

Thank-you! I was curious. It sounds like they're on top of things.

[wordelo]

update!

They just finished book 1!

The clockwork servant(from area C5) they named 'cranky' and they went to golemworks to get it to aid in craft alchemy checks for wizard. (+23 bonus at level 5
(5 ranks, 3 class skill, 4 int, 5 crafter's fortune spell, 2 shard of pride, 2 master alchemist feat, 2 aid another) craft alchemy in no time.

Rogue, a worshiper of pharasma, carefully destroyed lockerbie when the time was right. The effects of the timeglass artifact(in book 6) allows the PCs to use acquired points throughout the story to have spells cast. They had enough points for their future selves to cast resurrection on Lockerbie to return him to human form. reunited with his wife.

The party spent too much down time crafting things (nearly 3 weeks), the cleric retrained into crusader archetype. so while fenster was the first victim of the derro atlatia made him an amnesiac(a form of madness) and returned him to magnimar, and captured Natalya who cleric had been courting. Sheila told PCs that she is late for update on her spy work for Sczarni. They didn't find out that the sewers were connected to the crow until after they defeated all the derro except Khrysm. cleric is lucky on diplomacy checks to lay with certain women so far. (to date a random librarian, Natalya, and the captain of the Wanton Ways herself) Natalya being saved twice is completely infatuated with anyone who wants her attention, the cleric. (he also has ranks in perform wind instruments (an accordion) that makes him all that much more romantic)

Cleric went to docks to secure the voyage on Wanton ways and saw Fenster working the docks moving cargo. He was found and put to work by the docks to earn a decent living. also having memory failure noticed that he himself was a nasty fellow so he got himself clean. Cleric subtly tried to get his attention but being an amnesiac didn't recognize him. cleric dropped the issue thinking he was better off.

Sheila sent them on a week long team building training exercise. each PC would gain a free teamwork bonus feat. This is my own thing to hammer down the team thing that sheila really wants.

They had just met with Maroux from book 2. cleric of course courts her and she wants nothing to do with that!

Wizard (the diviner) will soon receive the vision of Vargun making her own divinations. (if you've been following my posts...)

[Alric the Slain]

Not sure if anyone still remembers this AP, but I am finally getting around to running it. My party is well into the crow and just got to room B20, the Dormitory. The text states, "It also serves as their storage for artifacts they have looted from the piling and intend to sell, all packed in bags and crates."
However, there is no indication of what that loot might actually be. Anyone have any recommendations for approximately how much treasure to dole out here or specifically what that treasure might be?

[TomParker]

I'm running it now. I ignored the reference to loot there; I assumed it was an error since it didn't list anything under treasure. There's plenty of stuff in the Crow and below for them.

[CaroRose]

I am in planning stages to run this AP for my group after we finish the last chapter of Rise of the Runelords (we're running the Spiritual Trilogy in order now). I like to read folks' commentary on how the book is laid out and how different groups react to the story.

I saw (somewhere) that maybe one or two people were commenting on the initial story hook being a bit boring - i.e. a note from Sheila and then she leaves them in a room to open a puzzle box with a monster trap. Based on other intros I've seen, I can kinda agree it's not fabulous, so I'm looking at other ways to spice it up for the team.

I'm keeping in mind that I won't know what's best for them until I have a better idea of what characters they come up with, but I'm leaning toward integrating Rise of the Goblin Guild as their intro spice instead of the puzzle box. It can be run for 1st level characters and it's literally started right out of the same place (Heidmarch Manor).

Has anyone else modified the story intro? Has anyone here run Rise of the Goblin Guild and have thoughts?

[TomParker]

My group said the puzzle box was the most fun they’d ever had. Remember that every time the party misses they shatter objects or otherwise destroy the room. They loved the gremlins, and found the havoc they wreaked on the many priceless objects on display in the room hilarious. I came up with a good-sized list of things they destroyed due to the bad luck powers; it was a mini-tour of Golarion and the Society’s adventures.

[Dhost]

My group is just about to start this. I am going to run them through The Confirmation scenario first. Then depending on how they do, the note inviting them to Magnimar will either be “in recognition of their great success” or else “a chance for them to redeem themselves in the eyes of the Society.”

[Agodeshalf]

My group stated Shards of Sin a few sessions back, and it's a pretty large group - 7 players (swashbuckler, witch, oracle, rogue, fighter, bloodrager, and paladin). I decided to not scale things up, other then some minor tweaks but they have been having amazing bad luck. For example, when they encountered the lone sorcerer in the warehouse, the three front liners (swashbuckler, fighter and bloodrager) all dropped due to color spray. The paladin wasn't there and the sorcerer ended up capturing them all. All in all they have been struggling

But the current problem is that they gotten to the fight with Natalya and after slogging thru the muck, fighting the goblins, they ended up in pretty good shape so I figured that the fight would go their way but that didn't happened. Suffice to say they left the building with their tails between their legs. It was either that or a TPK. But now I'm in a bit of quandary.

What I was thinking is to have the tower girl lieutenant who is outside, take this opportunity to attack the weakened Natalya and seize the shard. But the question is where do I go from there do I
1) Have her return to the tower girls and try a takeover
2) Have her decide like Natalya that she needs to hold up somewhere
3) Something else?

Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated.

[Irish Wet Dog]

I need some help with Magnimar. Based on a picture Im assuming there is a staircase that goes from Capital district to Dock way? To get down the seacleft.

Secondly, is Underbridge in the middle of Dockway?

Thanks.

[NobodysHome]

Here's a simple question/warning: When the party first travels to the Arvensoar, Kasadei informs them that, "Those who were questioned
proved to have amnesia and had no idea of where they had been during their disappearance."

The very first question from my party was, "Why hasn't anyone tried a Heal spell on them?"

Answer #1: Heal doesn't work on amnesia, which contradicts both the Heal spell (cures insanity) and the text of, "See page 54 for more information about what the derros are up to and what the PCs might learn from victims whose memories they somehow manage to restore (a process likely out of the reach of low level PCs at the start of this adventure, but perhaps not by the end of the adventure...)," except page 54 does not provide any details as to what could possibly restore the victims' memories. Seems like if it's a mental condition (it's classified as a madness) that can be fixed, then Heal ought to do it.

Answer #2: The city is too cheap to pay for private citizens' medical treatments; if they can't pay themselves, they don't get Healed. This is the answer I used, but considering Mayor Groboras is offering 500 gold per rescued citizen, and paying a cleric to cast Heal on a single citizen to get the needed information would only be 660 gold, this rings hollow.

Did anyone else's group ask why the city didn't just restore at least one victim's memory themselves? It does really seem like a gaping plot hole... if the PCs can do it at 4th level, the city could easily do it.

[NobodysHome]

Another one: My party meticulously went through the Crow, stabilizing each and every Tower Girl after dropping her. They've captured the entire gang with only a single fatality (a crit at low hit points). They plan on turning the entire gang over to the city watch at Arvensoar.

So...
...are the Tower Girls wanted criminals?
...does the party get a reward for turning them in?

[NobodysHome]

And for people who call the Crow a "repetitive slog", my party really embraced a *very* simple tactic: After capturing Natalya alive, they got an extremely crude hand-drawn map of the area. Their Stealth PCs would move to the next room, check for Tower Girls, and if there were any, there was a mad bull rush where ALL of the PCs tried to race across the room during both the surprise round and the initial round to block the exit, then do anything to prevent the girls from running.

It made every fight exciting and edge-of-your-seat as the question was always, "Will we get a high enough initiative to stop them?"

The best was when the only person with a higher initiative was the gnome gunslinger, and he managed to blind the Tower Girl nearest the exit so she couldn't get a full move away before the rest of the group got to her.

The tower itself is nicely arranged so even an attentive Tower Girl taking 10 on Perception (so 15 total) won't hear any fights in any other rooms due to distances, so the party managed to take the entire tower by surprise, and finished the section with a massive sense of accomplishment. After running almost literally the same fight over and over and over again.

[TomParker]

NobodysHome wrote:

...are the Tower Girls wanted criminals?

...does the party get a reward for turning them in?

Kasadei from the City Watch provides a lead to the PCs, and doesn't seem to be pursuing it herself. Maybe the City Watch is too busy, but I don't get the impression that the Watch is actively chasing the Tower Girls.

And I think the AP would have mentioned a reward for captured Tower Girls. I probably would not have given them a reward for the Tower Girls.

[Lyrad the Strange]

I have a question about the magic circle against law that is in room C2 in the Ancient Laboritories... The text says the circle presents a "potent ward that the devils of this level cannot cross", but from the description elsewhere, it appears as if the spell was originally cast using the alternate version, where the effect is focused inward, rather than outward (because it was used to trap a powerful creature within, but now only contains the fire elementals).

My question is: which version is it? Is it designed to keep summoned lawful summoned creatures in or out? Or both?

[TomParker]

I treated it as doing both, since the text implies that it does.

[Blu Phx]

Hi all. First time GM'ing and I am running Shattered Stars. There is a side quest Missing Persons, but I do not know where to find the details of this quest. Can anyone help provide which book this content is in?

[NobodysHome]

Blu Phx wrote:

Hi all. First time GM'ing and I am running Shattered Stars. There is a side quest Missing Persons, but I do not know where to find the details of this quest. Can anyone help provide which book this content is in?

One of the more annoying yet best pieces of advice I can give you when running any Paizo AP is to read at least the book you're about to run (which works for most APs), and possibly read all 6 books to find out what else you're supposed to include (ahem, Jade Regent and Carrion Crown).

In this case, if you read through Area D, you will find that the details of the Missing Persons quest are filled out there. So you want to drop lots of hints and mentions throughout the first part of the book (A-C) so that by the time the PCs get to area D, they'll say, "Ooooooh!"

[Blu Phx]

NobodysHome wrote:

Blu Phx wrote:

Hi all. First time GM'ing and I am running Shattered Stars. There is a side quest Missing Persons, but I do not know where to find the details of this quest. Can anyone help provide which book this content is in?

One of the more annoying yet best pieces of advice I can give you when running any Paizo AP is to read at least the book you're about to run (which works for most APs), and possibly read all 6 books to find out what else you're supposed to include (ahem, Jade Regent and Carrion Crown).

In this case, if you read through Area D, you will find that the details of the Missing Persons quest are filled out there. So you want to drop lots of hints and mentions throughout the first part of the book (A-C) so that by the time the PCs get to area D, they'll say, "Ooooooh!"

Thanks Alot.

[NobodysHome]

Blu Phx wrote:

NobodysHome wrote:

Blu Phx wrote:

Hi all. First time GM'ing and I am running Shattered Stars. There is a side quest Missing Persons, but I do not know where to find the details of this quest. Can anyone help provide which book this content is in?

One of the more annoying yet best pieces of advice I can give you when running any Paizo AP is to read at least the book you're about to run (which works for most APs), and possibly read all 6 books to find out what else you're supposed to include (ahem, Jade Regent and Carrion Crown).

In this case, if you read through Area D, you will find that the details of the Missing Persons quest are filled out there. So you want to drop lots of hints and mentions throughout the first part of the book (A-C) so that by the time the PCs get to area D, they'll say, "Ooooooh!"

Thanks Alot.

No worries. After 9 years of running these APs, I really don't want to say how many times I've been bitten by the exact same issue. It's even worse in the two APs I mention, where you get to Book 6 and they say, "Oh, and you DID mention this back in Book 4, didn't you?"

[Renegade Paladin]

James Jacobs wrote:

Mark Knights wrote:

Why is area C18 CR5 when there is no creature, trap or event listed for it?

Yeah... that's a type of error that, unfortunately, pops up now and then when we have to shrink an adventure slightly in order to make it fit. When we do this, one of the FINAL steps we take as a last-ditch effort to make an adventure fit is to cut minor or relatively uninteresting encounters... especially encounters in rooms that have other interesting things going on in them and thus still function as legitimate areas of interest even without a fight.

In the case of area C18, there was once a fight with two medium air elementals in that room, but I ended up cutting the fight because it wasn't all that important in the grand scheme of things, didn't really fit the overall theme of that dungeon level, and because by cutting the two lines of text involved AND the short stat block for the elementals, we could make the adventure fit.

So.

Just ignore that "CR 5" notation and you're good to go.

I suppose the same is true of C8 and C10?

Edit: Not related to the question above, but the hell hound in the rift siphon. It's trapped by the portcullis to the south, but how has it not found the western entrance to the maze in two years? It would eventually hit doors, but it would have the run of C19 and probably be able to attract the attention of the devils. Oh well, the PCs don't need to know that detail.

[Trumpster]

Renegade Paladin wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Mark Knights wrote:

Why is area C18 CR5 when there is no creature, trap or event listed for it?

Yeah... that's a type of error that, unfortunately, pops up now and then when we have to shrink an adventure slightly in order to make it fit. When we do this, one of the FINAL steps we take as a last-ditch effort to make an adventure fit is to cut minor or relatively uninteresting encounters... especially encounters in rooms that have other interesting things going on in them and thus still function as legitimate areas of interest even without a fight.

In the case of area C18, there was once a fight with two medium air elementals in that room, but I ended up cutting the fight because it wasn't all that important in the grand scheme of things, didn't really fit the overall theme of that dungeon level, and because by cutting the two lines of text involved AND the short stat block for the elementals, we could make the adventure fit.

So.

Just ignore that "CR 5" notation and you're good to go.

I suppose the same is true of C8 and C10?

Edit: Not related to the question above, but the hell hound in the rift siphon. It's trapped by the portcullis to the south, but how has it not found the western entrance to the maze in two years? It would eventually hit doors, but it would have the run of C19 and probably be able to attract the attention of the devils. Oh well, the PCs don't need to know that detail.

Actually C10 could be the site of a battle if one of the imps gets away and alerts Lord Baz that the PCs are approaching, Similar to the muster room in the upper floors that the tower girls could use.

Not sure about C8 unless that's the cr rating of the puzzle to open the gate... but it's possible there might be a battle there if the gate is opened while the rooms beyond are still occupied as the noise will alert them.

I have a question about the Fame and prestige system but it seems like the Author is not replying here anymore. I don't know if I should be giving out other fame awards and starting the players at fame 1+charisma mod and such, or just giving out the AP rewards and nothing else. The players guide just mentions things they can spend their Prestige points on and not how it can be gained and the only direct AP references are the flat 8 Fame award at the end of the first book.

[Muzouka]

Planning to run this as my first AP.

A question about the Paradox Box: it mentions having the words CRUEL on one side but there doesn't seem to have any words for the other sides. Do we make up some words?

It also says the trap goes off regardless of the way it is opened. What is the Disable Device for? Do the PCs open the box without triggering the summon if they are successful in Disable Device?

[Patrick "Varg" Meade]

Muzouka wrote:

A question about the Paradox Box: it mentions having the words CRUEL on one side but there doesn't seem to have any words for the other sides. Do we make up some words?

You can make up words, or no words at all (the other sides are purely ornamental). You could state that the runes on the 5 other faces spell out "Pop goes the weasel." The PDF states, "five of the box’s faces are identical, but on one face, several additional runes appear. These runes spell out the word “CRUEL.” It doesn't particularly matter what is on the other 5 faces, it can be anything, as long as they are identical on all 5 faces. Only the 6th is different, with the runes for "CRUEL" appearing.

Muzouka wrote:

It also says the trap goes off regardless of the way it is opened. What is the Disable Device for? Do the PCs open the box without triggering the summon if they are successful in Disable Device?

The PDF states, "since there are no moving parts, it cannot be cracked via Disable Device." From what I've seen, if something can be unlocked or opened via Disable Device in an AP, the AP will have the Disable Device DC listed. This isn't one of those times, Disable Device doesn't apply.

I know it's been a few months, I hope you're doing well running this AP.

[Milton Murphy]

Looking for opinions. I'm running my group through Shards of Sin. They've not been particularly inquisitive so wondering should I help them by trickling out a fraction of the info regarding the Crow they should've gotten? A few things...

- They didn't really latch onto the missing people mystery. They did not go to Arvensoar and so did not speak to Kasadei. The only issue with this is that they might lose some coin by not getting the reward that Kasadei offered.

- They took out Terisha and did not pursue any sort of interrogation. I don't think this is major either. Maybe they could have gotten a few tidbits but I don't think that would have substantially changed anything.

- The major overlook was that they handed Natalya over to Sheila without talking to her at all as they subdued her into unconsciousness and never woke her up before they handed her over.

My reasoning is that Sheila would have definitely interrogated Natalya especially about where she found the shard and could have discovered that the group was going to Crow Natalya maybe shared some things that Sheila would want to pass along to the party. The party is prepping a bit before going out to the Crow so there is time for Sheila to get a message to them. I'm leaning this way.

Or I could just do nothing and let the chips fall where they may.

[TomParker]

Interrogate seems a little strong in regard to Natalya. Once free of the Shard's influence, she's not really an enemy.

I'd work to build up the relationship with the Heidmarchs. Summon them back. Emphasize that they're agents of the Pathfinder Society and that they work for Sheila. It's important so they can get the ioun stones needed to suppress each shard's curse, and there are some pretty big requests of them in the last book.

And Natalya has a side quest for them. So I'd have Sheila bring them back for a conference with Natalya, and a remorseful Natalya might ask them to help her with her problem after that meeting.

[Milton Murphy]

TomParker wrote:

Interrogate seems a little strong in regard to Natalya. Once free of the Shard's influence, she's not really an enemy.

I'd work to build up the relationship with the Heidmarchs. Summon them back. Emphasize that they're agents of the Pathfinder Society and that they work for Sheila. It's important so they can get the ioun stones needed to suppress each shard's curse, and there are some pretty big requests of them in the last book.

And Natalya has a side quest for them. So I'd have Sheila bring them back for a conference with Natalya, and a remorseful Natalya might ask them to help her with her problem after that meeting.

Nothing wrong with a little light interrogation. :) I kid, I kid. Point noted.

Good suggestions! Unfortunately I didn't have the chance to see this until today (session was last night). I went ahead and had Sheila inform them so they were forewarned about the were-lair at the least. They're pretty dialed in on the other stuff you mentioned, just a little sloppy on info gathering aspects so far.

Appreciate the reply!

[TomParker]

They really only miss out on Natalya's boots, if they didn't pick up the side quest. If they do kill the leader of the Tower Girls, you can always have her come and thank them after. The boots can be sort of "I'm free of all that—I won't need these anymore."

Good luck! This one has been a long one. Lady's Light and Windsong Abbey both seemed particularly drawn out. But we're in the last book and should wrap up in the next two months, then straight on to Return of the Runelords. My group started with Rise of the Runelords, so we're about 9 1/2 years into this so far.

[Muzouka]

What is the requirement for the PCs to learn Ancient Thassilonian?
The Player's Guide say the PCs earn 8 fame per adventure. Does that mean per chapter or per book?

[TomParker]

Per adventure typically means per book.

I didn't have any pre-requisite to learn Thassilonian. I allowed them to invest in it if they chose since Thassilonian study is a thing at this point in the Golarion timeline. I've always subscribed to the notion that the things PCs earn when leveling up are skills, abilities, spells, etc. that they've been working at throughout the current level. So Thassilonian follows the same convention I'd apply to anything.

[William Sinclair]

Muzouka wrote:

What is the requirement for the PCs to learn Ancient Thassilonian?

The Player's Guide say the PCs earn 8 fame per adventure. Does that mean per chapter or per book?

You just choose it as a language when you take a rank in Linguistics.

8 fame per book, so 48 total. Nothing saying they can't earn it other ways through roleplaying, all at your discretion.

[King of Vrock]

Anyone figure out the room layout for B25?

A) does the balcony overlook the passage to the south or the bath to the north?
B) does the crevice in the east wall lead to b26 the cistern or b27 the dressing room where the bat swarm resides.

--We will Vrock you

[TomParker]

King of Vrock wrote:

Anyone figure out the room layout for B25?

A) does the balcony overlook the passage to the south or the bath to the north?

I read it as level with the bath, overlooking the southern part of the room.

Quote:

B) does the crevice in the east wall lead to b26 the cistern or b27 the dressing room where the bat swarm resides.

The crevice is described in the room text as going to B27. It only allows passage to tiny creatures and is not represented on the map. The tunnel in the SE corner is described in the room text for B26 and is much larger, almost 5 ft wide.

[King of Vrock]

So I'm running both the Shattered Star AP and the year of the Risen Rune scenarios involving the cult of Lissala. Our session zero was running Rise of the Goblin Guild, but due to the Oracle starting off with a level of barbarian that lacked the healing to finish the scenario causing the bugbear Inoklar to run off into the sewers... Where she's later captured by the derro Atlatia via charm person (tier 4-5 version now). Fenster ends up in the prisoner's pen instead.

--Vrock Star

[King of Vrock]

Did anyone swap out the Alchemist build of Magister Khrysm for the actual derro magister from Bestiary 6? Maybe with the advanced template?

--Mental Vrock

[Balthesar]

About to run this, and have a player wanting to be a bladebound magus.

I had a wild idea, please tell me if its terrible.

What if they discover Chellan, Sword of Greed in the first book, but it had been so long that it doesnt remember who it is, and its luster and abilities are gone. Slowly remembers itself (as the black blade progression)

[DM_aka_Dudemeister]

Balthesar wrote:

About to run this, and have a player wanting to be a bladebound magus.

I had a wild idea, please tell me if its terrible.

What if they discover Chellan, Sword of Greed in the first book, but it had been so long that it doesnt remember who it is, and its luster and abilities are gone. Slowly remembers itself (as the black blade progression)

Nobody answered your question, but I will:

That's rad as hell.