Paladin / Bard viable?


Advice

Silver Crusade

I was wondering how viable a paladin/bard build would be?
If only for the Cha to saves.

I was thinking paladin into Dervish Dance bard, or arcane duelist.


I've had a Paladin Bard that played like a Space Marine Chaplain from the Warhammer 40k universe.

It was a blast.

Very Respectfully,
--Bacon


By 10th level you have everything you need from a Dawnflower Dervish Bard, and the Battle Dance works pretty well with Smite Evil on board as well. Something interesting to consider is a Paladin 5(Holy Gun possibly)/Mysterious Stranger 5/Dawnflower Dervish Bard 10 (not necessarily in that order. Gives you a good ranged option and a good melee option, and you can do some fun dual-wielding combos


The holy gun archetype is just terrible. Better off going mysterious stranger 1 and then into paladin if you want a gun.


I played a Dawnflower Dervish Bard X/Paladin 2. The cha to saves meant I almost never failed and the Smite Evil came in handy against the BBEG. It was actually a great Gish character. I could tank with Mirror Image and Displacement, do ok damage, act as the party face, and still have lots of spells for buffing and support.

Liberty's Edge

Yeah, Dawnflower Dervish is good for this idea.

For a full 20 levels, Paladin 4 (Oath of Vengeance)/Bard 16 seems the way to go, that'll give 4-5 Smites a day and 6th level spels, on top of various immunities and save bonuses, as well as a +16 BAB. Very solid.

Silver Crusade

And divine favor if you ever want to spend the action lol.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

It can be pretty good. You could even go paladin 8/bard 4/mystic theurge 8 to get 4th-level spells in both and still end up with +15 BAB at 20th level (no worse than a straight bard at that point, but better during earlier levels). Paladins have some really nice 3rd- and 4th- level spells (deadly juggernaut, greater magic weapon, fire of vengeance, resounding blow), even before considering Unsanctioned Knowledge; and pearls of power are a relatively inexpensive way to gain more castings per day by the time you can use them.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
rorek55 wrote:
And divine favor if you ever want to spend the action lol.

That's what a lesser quicken metamagic rod in a glove of storing is for...


A two-level dip into bard can give your paladin a lot of skill points, and access to versatile performance, which lets you use Charisma for some variable skills. There are some pretty good level 1 Bard spells that have only vocal components - Timely Inspiration, Solid Note, and Feather Fall, for example - so that you can still use them while in heavy armor.


2 or 4 levels of Paladin for Cha to saves and possibly oath of vengeance turning lay on hands into more smites.


Another Build could be to go Paladin 4/Bard 7/ Eldritch Knight 9-- would end CL 16 for 6th level spells, BaB +18, smite twice a day and Inspire competence +3

(Or whichever Archetype replacement for Paladin you want since many seem to come at 4th level)

Tons of ways to make it.


an azata-blooded (+dex/cha) aasimar paladin (oath of vengeance) 4 / bard (dawnflower dervish) 16 using the racial FCB could hit that +4 bonus (+8 with DD archetype's battle dance) in inspire courage at 16th level (as compared to maxing at the +3)

.

FCB progression would be:
*effective bard level for inspire courage w/ FCB assuming pal 4 / bard 16*
-/-/-/-/1.5(+1) | 3/4.5/6(+2)/7.5/9 | 10.5/12(+3)/13.5/15/16* | 17*(+4)

* - add FCB to inspire courage until 10th-level bard (14th level), then the other 6 points (3 effective levels) into another performances or HP/skills if you want

.

possible build might be:

Spoiler:

bard (DD) 1 / paladin (vengeance) 4 / bard +15

(20pb)
str 16 , dex 32 (7pt +2r), con 24 (5pt), int 16 , wis 14 (-2pt), cha 28 (10pt +2r)
dex/dex/dex/dex/dex (level), +6 dex/con/int/wis/cha (belt/headband), +4 dex/con/cha (book/wish)

traits
-armor master
-optimistic gambler

feats
1 - weapon finesse, dervish dance*
3 - power attack
5 - lingering performance
7 - arcane strike
9 - greater mercy*
11 - extra LoH*
13 - extra LoH*
15 - extra LoH*
17 - extra LoH*
19 - ultimate mercy*

* - mostly filler; replace with lunge, the step up (and strike) line, discordant voice, etc. if you want.

gear
+5 courageous holy keen falchion
+5 mithral full plate or o-yoroi (counts as medium, so bard ACP immunity still applies)
headband - +6 int/wis/cha headband
head - tri-faced helm
eyes - lenses of detection
neck - +5 amulet of natural armor
shoulders - lesser cloak of displacement
chest - bane baldric
body - resplendent robe of the thespian
belt - +6 dex/con belt
wrists - bracers of the avenging knight, bracers of the merciful knight (up to you)
hands - glove of storing
ring1 - +5 ring of protection
ring2 - ring of freedom of movement or ring of evasion (shrug)
boots - boots of striding/springing, winged boots (both are fine)

slotless:
-white opalescent pyramid ioun stone (scimitar) (slotted in wayfinder, grants weapon focus (scimitar))
-various other ioun stones (seriously they are so useful)

you could easily remove int or wis from the headband to save cash.

a tentative attack from the above might be:
+41/+36/+31/+26 (+16 bab +11 dex +5 enhancement +10 dance/courageous +2 baldric +1 stone -4 PA)
-all of which can be activated on the first round with a move and swift action. with smite it jumps to +46/+41/+36/+31.

damage might be:
~47.5 (1d6 (~3.5) base + 11 dex +5 enhancement +10 dance/courageous +4 arcane strike (16CL) +8 PA +2d6 (~7) baldric +2d6 (~7) holy)
-with a 15-20 crit range
-smite bumps that by another +13 (cha+paladin level, bypassing DR, doubled against evil outsiders)

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