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Ummm...
First off, cover or concealment negates you. Not many characters have that high of dexterity, in fact a lot have negative dexterity modifiers, so don't rely on flat footed giving you the bonus to hit that you need. Next, your only adding 5 from sap adept? Shouldn't that be +10?
Next, you can only take combat trick once.
So, you can deal a lot of damage in the first round or two of combat IF you hit, IF your not surprised yourself, and IF they aren't behind cover or have concealment, and IF they don't have uncanny dodge.
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How do you get sneak attack on a full attack action when you vanish? I thought it works like Invisibility and drops when you attack so only your first attack gets sneak attack, unless you use your helm of the stag on all extra attacks.could you please link what you are talking about? this is the first im hearing of this and with helm of the stag, its only on the next ranged attack.
*edit* nevermind i found it,
well in that cause, just go to level 10 and grab the invisible blade trick, where vanish counts as greater invisibility
Helm of stag is a free action IIRC. You can burn more than one charge a round.
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You are only going to get off your one Sneak Attack(as Vanish will end), per full attack.
You still have to deal with Tremorsense, Blindsense, and Blindsight.
You also have to deal with concealment, and any darkness will stop your Sneak Attack, as you have no Darkvision.
Outside of the Vanish trick, you have no way of dealing Sneak Attack.
You will also only get it off within 30ft.
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So essentially "You must be at least 10th level for this to work." (At which point PFS is almost over for most people). That's not really a big secret, Invisible blade lets any Ninja do well, especially with the Sap chain. Now, if we can come up with a solid, ranged sneak attack build that works from 1-10 I'm interested.
In that vein a one level dip as an Oracle of Flame or Waves with the appropriate sight revelation, dropping Obscuring Mist to keep re-stealthing and then sniping out from inside it seems likely a good bet, if not the best.
Vanishing blade= as much shneak attack as wanted. Also flanking within 30ft gives it to him as well.
How is he flanking from 30 feet.
I can see several problems with this:
The major one is that you only get to use the sap master feats 1 or 3 attacks per day. It really doesn't add that much extra damage to warrant spending 2 feats.
I guess you could stack up on several helms, but that would be to cheesy for me to touch.
Secondly, being reduced to blunt arrows, destroys your attack bonus, which isn't great to begin with.
Thirdly, it is built around something that doesn't really work until lvl 10. Sure it might be done, starting at later levels, but otherwise you've got a long way to go, not really be able to do anything great.
Race: Human (Focused Study / Heart of the Wilderness)
Traits: Reactionary / Shadow Child
Class: Ninja (Bandit)
Feats:
1: Skill Focus - Perception
2: Point Blank Shot
3: Precise Shot
4: Rapid Shot
5: Sap Adept
6: Sap Master
7: Skill Focus - Stealth
Tricks:
1: Snap Shot
2: Vanishing Trick
3: Darkvision
4: Combat Trick - Improved Initiative
5: Sniper's Eye (extra trick from Human Favored Class option)
(Feats and Tricks not necessarily taken in these orders)
How about this variation of what he put together? All the same equipment. Tactics would be scouting ahead and getting a Surprise Round in. With the Ambush ability the Surprise Round would be a bit more effective for this build; it can even try for Sniping. Then it would have a very high initiative so should be going first in the first round of combat more often than not. After that, using Vanishing Trick and the Stag Helm to get as much Sneak Attack as possible. It's a human but has plenty of stuff that helps deal with the concealment issues for Sneak Attack. Between Surprise Rounds and the Stag Helm attacking people who are Flat Footed shouldn't be that uncommon, and the Sap Adept doesn't require the target to be Flat Footed so that extra damage you can get with attacking from Invisibility too. I foresee several Ki points being spent on an extra attack in a full attack in the first round of combat when enemies are still Flat Footed. Even if some enemies get to act in Surprise Rounds too he should be going first with Snap Shot and will still be able to hit them while they are Flat Footed.
Secondly, being reduced to blunt arrows, destroys your attack bonus, which isn't great to begin with.
This is taken care of by the merciful weapon enchantment.
Best ranged rogue is a Tiefling Rogue with the Blinding Sneak Attack. So, as long as YOU (the Tiefling) are under the effects of Darkness, as per the spell or spell-like ability(which you can cast on yourself and voluntarily give up your save, or any one of YOUR items), your opponent must make a FORT sace DC 10+ SA damage dealt. So, Vanish, invisibility, whatever... with Darkness on yourself, they fail save, sneak attack all next turn, they fail save, more sneak attack, ad nauseum.
I've always found it simpler to just focus your Rogue/Ninja on the regular chain of ranged feats and talents for basic ranged damage and sneak damage, and coordinate with an ally/allies who can help you rob opponents of their dex bonus. There are lots of effects that cause blindness (spells, dirty trick), or flat-footedness (grease, Court Bard's Glorious Epic, another rogue with the Distracting Attack talent, etc).
You're on a team, you don't have to do everything all by yourself. Rock that initiative, accept 1d8 + str + enhancement + deadly aim as the norm, and enjoy the sneaks when they happen.
A few more options and better party involvement.
Race: Human (Focused Study / Heart of the Wilderness)
Traits: Reactionary / Shadow Child
Class: Ninja (Scout)
Feats:
1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Elven Curve Blade
2: Skill Focus - Perception
3: Weapon Finesse
4: Point Blank Shot
5: Rapid Shot
6: Power Attack
7: Skill Focus - Stealth
Tricks:
1: Snap Shot
2: Vanishing Trick
3: Darkvision
4: Combat Trick - Improved Initiative (or Furious Focus, depending on character needs)
5: Sniper's Eye (extra trick from Human Favored Class option)
(Feats and Tricks not necessarily taken in these orders. Also, I didn't have room in the 9 level build but I would probably go for Dodge and Mobility next to facility the Scout abilities.)
I would not bother with the non-lethal damage bit. This build would scout ahead, open with a surprise round and first initiative in the first round of combat (hopefully), they kite things back to the approaching party using scout abilities and vanishing trick as necessary. Once in with the party he can switch to ECB and maneuver around to get scout Sneak Attacks and flanking positions. I would definitely sub-out some equipment to get Boots of Speed and probably a Cloak of Minor Displacement with this build and these tactics. Between Rapid Shot, Boots of Speed, and Ninja Ki this guy should have 5 attacks when he takes a full attack.
I still might pick up the Stag Helm. I would use it for after I have kited the mobs back to the rest of the party and spent a few rounds in melee with the party. The idea being, if I get too injured I can retreat melee and still pull off a few full attack rounds with my bow that get at least one Sneak Attack in.
I don't think you can select combat trick more than once.You can't.
You can if you take the Swashbuckler archetype, IIRC.
At which point PFS is almost over for most people.
Screw PFS. It should be a minor consideration at best. *A* piece of evidence for play experience. It should not be labeled as a majority of players or set the direction for the game overall.
At which point PFS is almost over for most people.Screw PFS. It should be a minor consideration at best. *A* piece of evidence for play experience. It should not be labeled as a majority of players or set the direction for the game overall.
Generally I agree, but in this case the OP states:
This character is built with Society rules, so it is society legal.
as part of their opening post. Due to this I think it's quite relevant to the topic.
Do the snap shot feats work for flanking or can you only do it with a melee weapon regardless if you threaten or not.good question. Last I heard flanking with ranged attacks was a non-starter, be it at 5 feet or 30.Vanishing blade= as much shneak attack as wanted. Also flanking within 30ft gives it to him as well.How is he flanking from 30 feet.
The Snap Shot feats allow you to provide flanking for an ally. However:
Flanking
When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner.
Gaining Flanking bonuses are exclusively for melee attacks.
At which point PFS is almost over for most people.Screw PFS. It should be a minor consideration at best. *A* piece of evidence for play experience. It should not be labeled as a majority of players or set the direction for the game overall.
I completely agree with this sentiment. From the attitudes I have seen on the boards, I think PFS causes more problems than it serves to alleviate in the gaming community.
HOWEVER, as Ilja pointed out, the OP did say it was PFS legal. Not that I know what is or isn't PFS legal, or how to even find that information.
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Not that I know what is or isn't PFS legal, or how to even find that information.
It's carefully hidden away where nobody will ever find it...
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At which point PFS is almost over for most people.Screw PFS. It should be a minor consideration at best. *A* piece of evidence for play experience. It should not be labeled as a majority of players or set the direction for the game overall.
Except in this case the OP specifically mentioned the character being fit for society play and PFS legal, so it's clearly a concern for him. And regardless of who plays PFS (I don't and doubt I ever would) it's completely correct to say that for those who *do* the play experience for many characters close to ending by 10th.
On topic, the Swashbuckler archetype doesn't appear to allow more uses of Combat Trick either, ranged sneak attacks just don't get any love in PF really. Other than the 10th lvl Ninja it's the odd niche sniper build that makes it work at all, and even then not terribly well sadly =/
At which point PFS is almost over for most people.Screw PFS. It should be a minor consideration at best. *A* piece of evidence for play experience. It should not be labeled as a majority of players or set the direction for the game overall.
If the person posting the question asks about PFS legality, just flag the post to be moved to the PFS forum.
Generally I agree, but in this case the OP states:
This character is built with Society rules, so it is society legal.as part of their opening post. Due to this I think it's quite relevant to the topic.
Well..... boo. My bad.
On topic, the Swashbuckler archetype doesn't appear to allow more uses of Combat Trick either...
They do.
Swashbuckler
A paragon of mobile swordplay, the swashbuckler is a rogue who focuses almost exclusively on honing her skill at arms and perfecting daring acrobatic moves and elaborate flourishes that border on performance.
Martial Training (Ex): At 1st level, the swashbuckler may select one martial weapon to add to her list of weapon proficiencies. In addition, she may take the combat trick rogue talent up to two times. This ability replaces trapfinding.
Daring (Ex): At 3rd level, a swashbuckler gains a +1 morale bonus on Acrobatics checks and saving throws against fear. This bonus increases by +1 for every 3 levels beyond 3rd. This ability replaces trap sense.
Rogue Talents: The following rogue talents complement the swashbuckler archetype: offensive defense, positioning attack, powerful sneak, and weapon training*.
Advanced Talents: The following advanced rogue talents complement the swashbuckler archetype: crippling strike*, entanglement of blades, and redirect attack.
A few more options and better party involvement.[...]
Feats:
1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Elven Curve Blade
Though still viable if starting with Finesse first, then EWP: Curveblade
I build a rogue kobald with the major magic trick for gravity bow and a heavy repeating crossbow that could do work with vital strike feat
A few more options and better party involvement.[...]
Feats:
1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Elven Curve Blade
Though still viable if starting with Finesse first, then EWP: Curveblade
Thanks. Yeah, you would just have to switch EWP and Weapon Finesse on the build.