I'd like to make a wizard or Sage sorcerer who uses their spells almost entirely on utility spells, with the aim to entirely replace a rogue, and then some. I'd also like to enter into a PrC with a martial focus; such as Eldritch Knight.
Any ideas how best to accomplish this?
Thanks!
What about just playing a Magus?
Take the scribe scroll feat and make scrolls of the utility spells that aren't going to be used all the time, freeing up your memorized spells for combat and/or more-commonly-used utility spells.
If you play a hexcrafter magus, you can use hexes in combat primarily, which frees up even more spell slots for utility spells.
Most of the Magus' abilities keep getting better with more Magus levels, though, so adding a prestige class isn't necessarily the best option.
abusing SLA early entry shenanigans you'd be able to pull off wizard 1 / (fighter, ranger, cavalier, gunslinger, etc.) 1 / EK 10 / ??? 8
just gotta pick a race with a 3rd-level arcane SLA (aasimar is the easiest i think).
I'd say Magus, but adjust its spell-list to cover those areas that you're talking about.
Mind, losing those non-utility spells will make some of its class functionality not as effective, but otherwise, it seems like the best bet.
I'd say Magus, but adjust its spell-list to cover those areas that you're talking about...
So basically a Samsaran Magus with Mystic Past Life? Sure the CON penalty sucks for combat, but you get a bonus to your casting stat, which Mystic Past Life keys off of. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to get at least 5 additional utility spells to round out the Magus' list.
Look at the earth wizard. He gets +1 attack when standing on the ground, helping you with your to hit when you go martial.
In addition to that you gain the acid dart ability which lets you make ranged attacks without needing to spend spells, at low level at least. So you can use your spells for utility from level 1 on.
If you take a bonded weapon (be aware of the consequences) you have +2 to hit before strength is applied, making you a viable melee.
Then take a level of martial class at char level 2 and wear armor from then on. You'll be decent in melee, be able to shoot your acid darts at range and can just take off your armor before casting utility spells out of combat. Armored coat is good for that.
Another option would be to combine the empyreal sorcerer (for WIS casting) with the sohei monk. That way you you double dip wis, and get all martial weapons for eldritch knight. You will not wear armor but at least you get wis to AC. But with the slower spell progression it will take you longer to reach eldritch knight, sadly.
You could be a bard. They have utility and combat capability. Nothing fancy needed.
what about something like an alchemist? He has lots of useful utility spells on his list, as well as mediuam bab and hit die with potential combat buffs in the form of the mutegen (which can be improved with certain archetypes). He also has lots of useful skills, and if you think you need it you can use the trapfinding trait to cover that as well.
I'd say look at the "selfish" bard archetypes, i.e. Archaeologist, Dervish Of Dawn, Dervish Dancer, and also Arcane Duelist. With the trapfinder trait, you can disable like a rogue, and the bard spell list is pretty much focussed on utility spells and buffs. The "selfish" archetypes grant themselves some hefty bonuses in combat, bringing them pretty much up to par with most martial classes.
If your willing to go 3pp Rogue Genius Games has the vanguard which uses the wizards spell list. And is a martial caster
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Another option would be to combine the empyreal sorcerer (for WIS casting) with the sohei monk. That way you you double dip wis, and get all martial weapons for eldritch knight. You will not wear armor but at least you get wis to AC. But with the slower spell progression it will take you longer to reach eldritch knight, sadly.
You can take just go with a standard Aasimar for the early entry to EK, but I think that fails to meet his concept for skill points/utility.
I second the Bard-DD idea. I made a Half orc Archaeologist Bard 6 into Dragon Disciple and picked up the Eldritch Heritage line for the Orcish bloodline powers. Was designed for an AP so that the character would reach 16-17th level and got pretty impressive.
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i think what you're looking for is:
trapper ranger 1/wizard [divination|scryer] 1/eldritch knight
(though an alchemist could be a good fit as well)
What about just playing a Magus?The Magus doesn't have the right sorts of spells in its list, much less in a timely fashion.
Wizard into EK is the only way to go and be only two levels late getting important spells and there isn't really a right way to do it.
There's an Arcana for that!!!
For real, even optimization guides tell you to take spell blending for access to utility spells, and Scribe Scroll is never bad if you wanna do anything utilitarian.
Knock, Rope Trick, and this spell can all add well to your utility. Later on also pick up Permanency to get the fun going.
I agree with nate lange. I've been sorta trying to do the same thing with my new wizard. I ultimately think i'll settle into either a Conjuration or Blaster Wizard with the Trapper Dip.
If going into EK you can get early entry via Scryer (doesn't work properly in Hero Lab) and the Trapper archetype gets you Trapfinding, two saves you are missing from Wizard and two essential skills for "scouting" in the form of Perception and Stealth. You could add the Freebooter Ranger archetype to give out some mini +1 to the whole party. Frankly i've found this to be one of the best options out there for the type of role you're trying to fill.
If you don't mind losing out on the shear number of spells/day then i would go Regular Bard with the Trapfinder trait but most likely not go into EK.
Can i ask what type of "Martial Ability" you are looking for?
Another fun option could be a Reach focused (Trapper/Freebooter) Ranger 1 (BFC/Buffer)Transmutation Wizard 5/EK 10/???
You get the physical stat bumps from Transmuter @1 and 5 plus the bonus MetaMagic Feat/Item Creation.
Go for a Str/Int/Dex/Con/Wis/Cha stat layout of highest to lowest with Combat Reflexes and Power Attack as feats and Magical Lineage as a Trait. Let your damage come from AoO's and use your spells for buffing and control. Scrolls for utility out of combat stuff and some durabilty for when you act as the party scout.
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I'll second ezrider23's suggestion that you use a reach weapon with your martial ability. This lets you fish for AoOs when it's not your turn. Also, as ez said, the two martial feats Combat Reflexes and Power Attack, combined with a reach weapon, get you substantial martial ability for a mere two feat investment. The big downside is that you lose your shield, but I hear there is a spell for that.
With just a +1 BaB, 14 STR, 14 DEX, Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, and a simple longspear you are a fine martial skirmisher. You strike at +2 for 1d8+6, for average 10.5 HP damage on a hit. You can get up to four possible attacks per round, although in practice it is unusual to get all three AoOs in one round. You can even completely eschew attacking during your turn (e.g. to cast a spell) and possibly still inflict some martial damage with AoOs. This approach has the pleasant side effect of providing a defensive screen for your allies.
Just the above options will not make you a mighty martial combatant. That would require a much larger investment of build resources. While you could load up on more martial feats (e.g. Improved Trip), you are also free to focus on other things. The above two-feat investment makes you a decent martial combatant for the rest of your career.
Just to make it nice your stats with a 20pt. buy could be
Str- 14 +1 @1st from Transmutation, +1 @5th (16)
Dex- 14
Con- 14
Int- 15 +2 From being Human, +1 @4th, +1 @8th(19) and so on.
Wis- 12
Cha- 7
Really, the stat spread could be laid out how ever this was just one i was looking at. I've still yet to figure out which stat to focus the most on when it comes to this build. Strength for the martial aspect (DEX if going Eldritch Archer)or INT to boost my caster side.
The objective here was to replace a rogue, not with skill points but with spells. SO, some people mentioned skill points, just thought i should say i care not for them.
a reach build is probably the most effective damage wise, seeing as that spells would not be used for buffing as much, but more for exploration and overcoming more mundane obstacles; walls, locks, breathing underwater, etc. ad nauseum.
Bards appeal to me generally, but their spell list is actually fairly limited in many respects. They really lack the depth of utility in their spell list, as compared to what a wizard or sorcerer has.
I had planned on a single level of fighter, caster, then EK. Seems such a path or one similar is a common suggestion.
I ma still torn between wizard or Sage sorcerer, however. seems the more spells per day of a sorcerer would be more useful...?
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The easy answer is to make a Sohei Monk/ Scryer 1 / Eldritch Knight
Sohei has a decent # of skill points, adds your Wis to your saves, and qualifies you for eldritch knight. +2 to all saves is nothing to sneeze at either.
Alternatively, you can do War Priest, which gives you full BAB in the weapon of your choice, a few nifty blessings (Liberation is great to have around), and free Weapon Focus (which you would probably take eventually anyway for weapon spec, so you don't lose anything relative to a fighter).
Scryer (Diviner) gives you the "scout tubes"; useful for peeking around corners. It grants +1 to the DC of all of your scrying. And most importantly, 1 level of it qualifies you for Eldritch Knight.
From there, you get an extra Divining spell each day. Make your weapon your spell focus and that's another spell. And if you are allowed traits take the one that gets you the +2 levels in wizard; it will keep your spells "on point". Invisibility, open/close, unseen servant are the types of things that will take the rogue's role.
If you don't mind being an extra level behind, you can be an Aasimar Empyerial Sorcerer instead. This has the advantage of making Wisdom your casting stat, AC stat, and Perception stat (making it a "super stat" of sorts). The drawback is you will be even further behind on spells (you won't start casting 2nd level spells until 6), which is probably not what you are wanting. It does let you keep a utility sorcerer spell list, which can be handy.
i'm pretty sure i posted this here before, but since OP might have missed it...
trapper ranger 1 (martial weapons, and disable magical traps)
wizard [divination|scryer] 1 (magical scouting, and satisfies casting requirement for EK)
EK 10 (BAB and bonus feats for martial focus, only 1 lost casting level so still good spells for utility)
after 12th level you'll have to figure out how you want to level, but this should be a good start.
Maybe we all seem confused as to what it is about the "Rogue" you wish to replace with spells. As far as i know the only real things that the Rogue gets that set them apart is Trapfinding (duplicated through various Archetypes and/or a Trait), Evasion (not much to be done here) and Sneak Attack (i believe there is one or two different classes with this mechanic so go there).
Every other facet of the Rogue is built around Skill points.
You want sneaky = Stealth. Play a spell caster and get Vanish/Invisibility.
You want Trapfinding =Trapper or Urban Ranger, Archeologist Bard or Trapfinder Trait. You still need Perception and Disable Device skill.
You want all of these and go into Eldritch Knight. We have all just been making suggestions on the best ways to go about it.
I don't think Sohei Monk gets DD or Trapfinding so you'll still need the Trapfinder trait. Other than that i believe Nate and i have suggested the best route to accomplish EVERYTHING you would want and that is the Trapper Ranger/Wizard Combo in what ever way you like. Me, i personally like going the 1/5 route but that is a personal preference. Others like the early entry into EK.
If these options don't fit your vision than just build a ?/Seeker Sage Sorcerer(gets you trapfinding) or Wizard and pick the utility spells that you think are "roguish".