Okay, any ideas for what you can do with a White Haired Witch?

[sunbeam]

I think it is a cool archetype, and I can think of a lot of out of combat uses, and roleplaying things to do with the hair.

But it sure looks like a bad idea to play one, at least as far as being effective in encounters.

The loss of the Hexes is a pretty bad thing.

But I have other concerns.

1) With the poor bab, the Witch is never going to be any good at combat maneuvers. Sure you can pull some off in the early going, and probably always grapple arcane casters. Enlarge Person will keep it relevant for another couple of levels (I think you get "bigger hair" but I'm not certain.

So what then?

2) What can you possibly do with the rogue talents? They just don't seem to synch with this class.

3) I was hoping to use the hair as a kind of third arm. You know hold a mirror around corners, send it under a door to unlock it, feel around the bottom of a stream or something like that.

But I am uncertain as to whether the hair has any sense of touch.

4) Is the White Haired Witch even as good with the hair as a normal Witch with the Prehensile Hair hex? Since I understand you can never wield a weapon with the hair, I kind of don't care about any differences using it as a weapon.

Reading the text of the Prehensile Hair Hex, it spells out you can use it as a hand. Strangely the text on the White Haired Witch doesn't say you can do this.

Other than the reach, and the limited number of minutes a day you can use Prehensile Hair, the normal Witch seems like a better Master of Hair than the archetype designed around it.

So any ideas? I'm not trying to make some super build, just come up with something useful a White Haired Witch can do, that a normal witch can't.

[Vazt]

Your instincts are good. The archetype is a trap. Lots of potential but just doesn't add up. You are much better off playing a standard witch and using the hex and spell to do fun stuff but not make a build around it. There are a few threads with some builds that might interest you. Just do a search for them.

[Korthis]

Good for a dip for a few builds

[The Beard]

Combine it with tetori monk to make things really, really awkward for your GM.

[Imbicatus]

A few things. The hair has the grab special ability, so the witch gets a +4 bonus to grapple checks. Also, by using the hair, the witch is not not grappled while grappling, which is useful for maintaining defense options. At second level you get the constrict ability with the hair, that let's you qualify for final embrace. Oh yes, the hair has reach as well.

This makes it really useful for a two level dip for a tetori monk with feral combat training to change the crappy 1d4 damage to the monks unarmed strike damage.

[proftobe]

its also an awesome dip for hexcrafter magus

[Taenia]

Fun Build

White Haired Witch 2
Tetori Monk 1
Kensai Magus rest, wpn focus on Hair

Focus on Int with some dex/con/wis

Grapple build, get the arcana that allows you to use Magus level for one maneuver, grapple, meaning you are only 1 BAB behind on grappling.

Get the other arcana that lets you spend a pool point on adding int to attack rolls, which includes combat maneuver checks.

Grab the crab familiar.

Get the assorted grapple goodies.

Get Dex, Int and Wis to ac plus spells on list include mage armor and shield.

[sunbeam]

Hmmm I really don't like to multiclass too much. What does the Tetori give you that just going 2 Witch, the rest Magus (Hexcrafter, though I guess I'll look up why you say Kensai)?

[Imbicatus]

One level of Tetori really doesn't give much other than a +1 to grapple checks from graceful grappler, wis to AC, and a free improved grapple feat.

It can be worth it for AC if you have crazy high stats in Dex/Int/Wis, but unless you rolled, it isn't likely to give you much. Tetori is best when you stay with it as your main class.

[The Beard]

Imbicatus wrote:

One level of Tetori really doesn't give much other than a +1 to grapple checks from graceful grappler, wis to AC, and a free improved grapple feat.

It can be worth it for AC if you have crazy high stats in Dex/Int/Wis, but unless you rolled, it isn't likely to give you much. Tetori is best when you stay with it as your main class.

I could also see taking a few levels of white haired witch prior to spamming tetori levels working out pretty well. You can do some really stupid things with that hair, though I do still agree with you that tetori works best as a stand alone.

[nate lange]

wow... serious trap... i actually was about to post that i liked the archetype, but then i reread the hair entry and realized we had been using it incorrectly in our game... the hex counts the hair as having Str=your Int and 10' reach (which makes it very useful for delivering touch attack spells)- apparently (from rereading it now) the white-haired witch in no way says you get to use your Int mod for attack rolls (just damage), so despite the extra reach you're much less likely to hit with your hair if you specialize in using it than if you just learn the hex (though if you're extra squishy being able to deliver touch spells from 30' away behind your melee friends could still be worthwhile.

edit: although, it could actually be a decent dip for a gish... the way the whole Int to damage thing is worded it seems like you should still get your Str bonus to damage too (i doubt that's RAI, but it seems to be RAW). so, if you need an arcane caster level before entering a PrC and you're in a Str build you could use this to get a natural attack... if its your only one i believe it would do 1d4+(Str mod. x 1.5)+Int mod. (and use 3:1 power attack); or you could use it as a secondary natural attack (on top of all your normal attacks) for 1d4+(Str mod. x .5)+Int mod.

[Azelyan]

Okay guys, I have a white-haired witch to Gestalt. I am looking at either Hexcrafter or Tetori monk. I need build ideas, thinking more along the lines of a finesse build.

Here is what you have to work with. Before racial modifiers Stats are (18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8) We are currently level 6. We get 2 traits.

I was thinking Human, even though elf might be better for the boost to int and str.

Would Kirin style work well in this sort of gestalt?

[Mojorat]

If you are doing witch monk gestalt I would do maneuver master. With the range etc and flurry of maneuvers you would be a maneuver machine.

[Azelyan]

How would you build a White-Haired Witch/Maneuver Master then?

Would you get all 6 of: Improved Grapple, Greater Grapple, Improved Trip, Greater Trip, Improved Reposition, Greater Reposition , Tripping Strike and Repositioning Strike?

[Imbicatus]

Azelyan wrote:

How would you build a White-Haired Witch/Maneuver Master then?

Would you get all 6 of: Improved Grapple, Greater Grapple, Improved Trip, Greater Trip, Improved Reposition, Greater Reposition , Tripping Strike and Repositioning Strike?

Actually if you are going to use Maneuver Master, I would go White-Haired Witch/Maneuver Master 1/Lore Warden X. Focus on Grapple Feats, Improved Grapple, Greater Grapple, Rapid Grapple, Final Embrace, Final Embrace Horror, Final Embrace Master. Maybe add Eldritch Claws and Improved Natural Attack.

[LoneKnave]

Mojorat wrote:

If you are doing witch monk gestalt I would do maneuver master. With the range etc and flurry of maneuvers you would be a maneuver machine.

Maneuver master is only good if you don't advance it beyond the point where maneuver flurry starts to suck. -4/6 to EVERY maneuver? That's terrible. A 2-4 level dip (Ki isn't that bad... kinda...) is entirely fine though.

[Azelyan]

LoneKnave wrote:

Mojorat wrote:

If you are doing witch monk gestalt I would do maneuver master. With the range etc and flurry of maneuvers you would be a maneuver machine.

Maneuver master is only good if you don't advance it beyond the point where maneuver flurry starts to suck. -4/6 to EVERY maneuver? That's terrible. A 2-4 level dip (Ki isn't that bad... kinda...) is entirely fine though.

how would you build the character then.