And Hell Followed With Him: DMDM's Guide to the Diabolist, Part 1


Advice


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This is part 1 of a rough guide to the Diabolist. As you can see, some sections are still missing, and part 2 is still in progress. Nonetheless, comments are welcome!

Doug M.

* * * * *

The Diabolist is one of the most interesting of Paizo's current crop of PrCs. It's highly specialized, and comes with several strings attached. But if this is the kind of character that you want to play, the Diabolist is both flavorful and surprisingly powerful. Do you want to sign deals in blood with the servants of Hell? Do you want to go into combat behind a wave of glaive-wielding barbed devils, with a nasty little accuser devil scouting out your enemies, and a snickering imp companion perched on your shoulder? Do you like burning paladins with hellfire? Then this may be the prestige class for you.

Class requirements

The Diabolist has the following class requirements.

Alignment: Lawful neutral, lawful evil, or neutral evil. From a mechanical point of view, there is a slight advantage to being lawful neutral. After all, you also get many of the benefits of being evil (bossing around devils, throwing hellfire) without being vulnerable to spells and effects that target evil characters (detect evil, protection from evil, paladin smites). Hanging on to a neutral alignment may be difficult, however. You're already damned to Hell just by dint of being a Diabolist, and you're going to be regularly calling up creatures who actively want to commit evil acts. Alignment is a tricky issue that varies from campaign to campaign, but don't be too surprised if you find that after some time playing this class the "N" in your alignment is looking more and more like an "E".

Language: Infernal. Note that this means you must either be a race that has Infernal as a starting language [are there any?], or have a positive Int modifier, or put one rank into Linguistics.

Skills: Knowledge (planes) 5 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 3 ranks, Spellcraft 5 ranks. This is a total of 13 skill ranks, which means that if you are playing a character with less than 3 skill ranks/level (a nonhuman sorceror, a human cleric who dumped Int, etc.) then you won't be able to enter the Diabolist class until 8th level.

Special: Must have conjured a devil using lesser planar ally or lesser planar binding (or a similar spell) and successfully coaxed the fiend into performing a task longer than 1 day. You are allowed to do this by casting from a scroll, which means it is possible to start on your career as a Diabolist at 6th level. You should seriously consider this, as the Diabolist's class attributes are noticeably more powerful if you can access them at lower levels. (Unfortunately, this "roleplaying" requirement means the Diabolist is not allowed for PFS play.)

Entering this class after 5th level, while legal, is not as easy as it might seem. You'll need to buy a scroll of Lesser Planar Binding and probably a scroll of Magic Circle Against Evil as well. Assuming the scroll was cast at 9th level, you'll need to make a DC 10 caster level check, meaning you'll make it on a 5 or higher -- 80% of the time. But then the conjured devil must fail its Will save; must also fail a special Cha check (DC 15 + 1/2 your level + your Cha modifier); and then lose to you on an opposed Cha check to be forced into service. For this reason, you should swallow your pride and summon a lemure (+0 Will save, 5 Cha) instead of something like an imp (+4 Will save, 14 Cha). Yes, the imp is much cooler. But the lemure is much less likely to make its Will save or Cha check and disappear amidst a cloud of brimstone and a peal of mocking laughter, leaving you with a botched conjuration and a couple of painfully expensive wasted scrolls. So go with the lemure -- you'll be calling up cool things soon enough.

Damned: When a diabolist is killed, her soul is instantly sent to Hell. Any character attempting to resurrect her must succeed at a caster level check equal to 10 + the diabolist's level or her spell fails. That character cannot attempt to resurrect the diabolist again until the following day, though other characters can attempt as they please. Strictly speaking this is a class attribute gained at first level rather than a requirement. I group it here because it means that "must be willing to be damned" is a requirement! Also, from a mechanical standpoint, it means that for the next four levels -- until you get your Hellish Soul on -- you need to live very, very carefully. You should discuss the implications of this with fellow party members, as they're the ones who'll be raising you. If they end up failing a check to claw your black soul back from the clutches of Moloch, and so have to cough up another 5,000 gp out of the party treasury to try again, it's going to go down a bit easier if they're aware of the possibility in advance.

Dipping the Diabolist

The Diabolist is unusual among Paizo PrCs in that it is very dippable. A single level of Diabolist gives you +2 on all Cha checks with devils and an imp companion. The imp companion is a very attractive, as it advances along with your character class levels. (Further discussion of uses for the imp companion can be found below.) A second level of Diabolist gives the Channel Hellfire power, which is incredibly useful for blaster characters and/or anyone who is regularly facing good-aligned opponents. This second level is particularly attractive to magi and other touch monkeys, ask they can swap in Hellfire when facing creatures that are resistant to their normal touch spells.

Who should play a Diabolist?

Any caster class can play a Diabolist. Very broadly speaking, potential diabolists fall into two classes: arcane casters (who will use Planar Binding spells to call their devils) and divine casters (who will use Planar Ally spells). Because Planar Binding is mechanically superior to Planar Ally, the Diabolist is more attractive to arcane casters, though it is still a viable choice for some divine casters. The class's slow BAB progression and d6 HD make it less attractive to hybrid melee/caster types such as magi, combat clerics and melee bards.

[discussion of divine casters omitted]

Alchemist [red] -- The alchemist is a poor choice for playing a diabolist, as alchemists do not have access to the Planar Binding spells. An alchemist could still get some benefit from this class by dipping 1-2 levels in order to gain the imp companion and the Channel Hellfire power, but there would be little point in continuing further.

Bard [orange] -- The bard is another poor choice for playing a diabolist, as bards do not have access to the Planar Binding spells. That said, there are some interesting possible synergies here. Like the alchemist, a bard could still get some benefit from this class by dipping 1-2 levels. Also, as a Cha-based caster, bards will be able to leverage their Charisma in dealing with devils, even if they cannot themselves conjure them. Bards are also better able to pay the skill taxes to enter this class, and skill such as Diplomacy and Sense Motive are always going to be useful in dealing with intelligent and powerful outsiders. The bard moves from orange to green in a campaign where devils are common anyway, even if she can't call them herself.

Magus [red] -- The diabolist's slow BAB progression and d6 HD are going to be a poor match for any class that spends time in melee. Taking diabolist levels also means giving up Arcane Pool points and losing many useful class attributes, such as the Knowledge Pool, medium armor proficiency, and so forth. And, of course, the magus does not have access to Planar Binding spells. Like the alchemist, the magus can gain some interesting benefits from dipping 1-2 levels of diabolist, most notably the ability to swap Hellfire into a normal touch attack spell -- very useful when fighting (for instance) an angel with resistance 10/electricity against the magus' normal Shocking Grasp attack. However, even this is limited by the fact that it relies on Charisma -- not usually a magus' strong suit.

Sorceror [blue] -- The sorceror enjoys one huge advantage in entering this class: she is a Cha-based caster, and so will already have a high Cha for making opposed checks against devils and for gaining extra uses of the Channel Hellfire power. This is such a great convenience that it might seem to make the sorceror the obvious "best" class. However, the sorceror faces several significant disadvantages as well.

First, the sorceror is relatively starved for feats and (especially) skills. The wizard will get a very useful feat at 5th level, just before becoming a Diabolist; the sorceror must wait until 7th level, which means either delaying entry or giving up the feat. (More likely the latter, as most bloodlines do not provide feats that are specifically useful for a Diabolist.) The sorceror also gets only 2 skill points/level and is not likely to have a very high Int. A nonhuman sorceror with a 10 Int, or a human sorceror with a 9 Int or lower, will not even be able to become a Diabolist until 8th level because of the class's skill requirements. Even a sorceror who gets 3 skill ranks/level will find herself painfully starved for skills at all points in her career.

Second, the sorceror's slower spell progression and limited spell selection impose real constraints on a Diabolist, especially for the first few levels in the class. The sorceror must wait an additional level for each Planar Binding and Summoning spell. So while the 9th level wizard is marching into the dungeon surrounded by his retinue of devils, the poor 9th level sorceror is stuck casting Summon Monster IV and the very occasional Planar Binding from expensive scrolls. Things don't get much better when the sorceror reaches 10th level, because if she takes Planar Binding it will be her only known 5th level spell -- and if she uses one of her precious 4th level "spells known" slots on Dimensional Anchor, that leaves a grand total of two other spells known over third level.

To be sure, there are workarounds for these problems: scrolls, wands, cohorts, party members. But the restrictions on the sorceror are stringent enough to move the class from "clearly the best" to "competitive".

[discussion of sorceror bloodlines would go here]

Summoner [orange] -- Although the summoner has access to Planar Binding spells, this class is still a weak choice for a diabolist. First and foremost, diabolist levels do not count towards the evolution of a summoner's eidolon. And second, the summoner's slow spell progression means that access to higher-level planar binding spells is delayed -- to 13th level for Planar Binding (vs. 12th for a sorceror or 11th for a wizard or witch), and to 16th level for Greater Planar Binding (vs. 14th for a sorceror or 13th for a wizard or witch).

Witch [blue] -- While a witch makes a fine a diabolist, this class does face certain challenges. Like the sorceror, the witch will be short on feats. Entering a prestige class at 6th level means giving up hexes and patron spells. This is particularly annoying since many witch hexes get a "bump" in duration or power at 8th level.

On the plus side, the witch does have at least two basic hexes that can help with conjuring devils. The Fortune hex, which can be used to "reroll any ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check, taking the better result". Under the RAW, this would appear to allow the witch to double-roll an opposed Cha check to compel a conjured devil to service. Check to make sure your DM agrees. If he does, this becomes an extremely powerful tool, especially at higher levels. The Evil Eye hex can also be used against devils to tip the scales even further in your favor -- while it only affects a single check, it ignores Spell Resistance and does not allow a save.

Finally, note that a Diabolist witch will now have an imp companion and a familiar too. This opens up some interesting options in terms of action economy. If nothing else, the imp can take a shape identical to your familiar, making it harder for enemies to target your precious, precious spellbook.

Wizard [blue] -- The wizard is the mirror image of the sorceror: he enjoys a number of advantages (an extra useful feat, many more skill ranks, faster spell progression, better spell selection) but has one major disadvantage: wizards usually dump Cha. If you want to play a Diabolist wizard, you need to have a respectable Cha: certainly 10, preferably 12, and 14 if you can somehow swing it. On a point buy system, this means losing out somewhere else, and that hurts. Otherwise, the wizard is a very strong pick, and is probably the best class for this PrC overall.

[discussion of wizard specialists here]

Part 2 (in progress)

Building towards a Diabolist

[discussion of playing a character before entering this class goes here, including recommended feats and skills]

Playing the Diabolist

[discussion of the imp companion]

[uses of Hellfire]

[conjuring devils, part 1 -- the conjuring "mini-game"]

[conjuring devils, part 2 -- the best fiend for the job]


This is absolutely great advice so far.
I've always loved the Diabolist, maybe I'll roll one up eventually.

Liberty's Edge

I love this class, It really is great even just for one or two levels. The imp companion is what I need its a smart and fairly strong ally who makes a great option for polymorphing.


Well, I'm glad people like it. Does anyone have comments or suggestions?

Doug M.


Perhaps making it a Google doc so you can get it on guide to the guides, as well as making it editable for yourself in the future, etc.

Liberty's Edge

I have made a few diabolist as either personal character or NPCs when I DM. I would also suggest the google doc.


dotting


I am a bit confused about the imp companion. Is the effective druid level equal to caster level (total) caster level (pre-diabolist)+diabolist level or something else?


Total caster level.

Liberty's Edge

Dotting because this is awesome

Dark Archive

Diabolist actually is a legal option for PFS to my knowledge. You just waive the devil summoning requirement. What they have done instead is state that you must have the spell available to you for casting rather than actually casting it. What this means is that you will still need to reach the same level and have the appropriate knowledge ranks; you will not, however, have to actually perform the summoning. You just need to be able to. This really only stops you from having to blow precious gold on it. They've also stipulated that using a scroll doesn't count for PFS.

Liberty's Edge

RAW the imp is equal to your caster level plus your diabolist level so a level 5 wizard 5 diabolist has a companion as a 15 Druid. I don't think that was the intent though and the ability was poorly worded. Also the PFSRD has the imps poison lasting 5 minutes also I imagine a mistake as the standard imp is not that long.


I'm planning to do it as a google doc. But since it will take a while to finish, I'm posting chunks of it in draft form here first, so people can comment and respond.

Doug M.


Falcar wrote:
RAW the imp is equal to your caster level plus your diabolist level so a level 5 wizard 5 diabolist has a companion as a 15 Druid. I don't think that was the intent though and the ability was poorly worded. Also the PFSRD has the imps poison lasting 5 minutes also I imagine a mistake as the standard imp is not that long.

That first part has got to be an error -- otherwise, at 20th level you'd have a 30th level imp companion. Which would be interestingly insane but, no.

The second part I'm less certain about. Perhaps it's an error (okay, probably it's an error), but perhaps the intent was to have your imp be a little better. Might be worth FAQing.

Doug M.


Okay, here's a another chunk. Again, note that this is a rough draft, so comments are very welcome.

Doug M.

* * * * *

Building towards a Diabolist

Skills: Like most Paizo PrCs, the Diabolist is skill-starved, with a miserable 2+Int points per level. So if you're not an Int-based caster, and not human, you're going to be placing every skill rank with exquisite care. Here are some of the skills you may want to consider.

Spellcraft -- You need three ranks of this to enter the class. But keep piling on the ranks, because you have to make that DC 20 Spellcraft check every time you conjure something. (You can take 20, but then you're on your knees with that stupid powdered silver all the dang morning.) Once you hit 12th or 13th level and can consistently get +19 before buffs, you can ignore this.

Knowledge (Planes) -- You need five ranks of this to enter the class. After that... well, technically, you need this in order to make Knowledge checks about the creatures you conjure. As a practical matter, let's face it, you're going to have the stats for bearded devils memorized PDQ once you start running around with them. But this still gets a thumbs up, because you never know when the DM is going to throw you a curve with some bizarre new sort of outsider.

Knowledge (Religion) -- You need five ranks of this to enter the class. Once you've got that, unless you're a cleric, walk away and never look back.

Diplomacy -- Hey, this skill works on evil outsiders too. And after all, you don't WANT to fill up the Outer Planes with creatures who nurse festering hatred and resentment towards you. As a practical matter, at the end of their service you want them reasonably content -- or dead. So dropping a rank or two in this isn't a waste, especially if you don't have a "face" character around to help you. And, hey, it's a class skill for Diabolists.

Intimidate -- The way this skill is structured makes it less useful to you than Diplomacy. Avoid.

Ride -- What is this doing here? It's not a class skill for diabolist, nor for any class that's likely to become a diabolist. True, but -- there are a few conjurable outsiders that can be ridden. If you like the idea of commanding your fiendish minions from the back of a rearing nightmare, throw a rank or two at this.

Sense Motive -- Believe it or not, evil outsiders are not always perfectly forthright when dealing with the spellcasters who are binding them to service. Catching one of your devils in a dangerous half-truth could be a literal lifesaver. Put some ranks into this, and use it regularly.

Bluff -- Lying to devils is probably not a great long-term strategy; at higher levels, too many of these guys have sky-high Sense Motive skills. But you may conjure up things other than devils, after all -- elementals, for instance, have zero Sense Motive so that even powerful ones are painfully easy to fool. And at midlevels, this can actually be quite useful even with devils. "Yes, I conjured you up to be my bodyguard going into the Temple of Horrendous Doom. A formality, really -- it's almost certainly entirely safe." If you manage to fool the creature, you should get be able to lie your way to a better check DC. (Of course, if you fail, you should get the worst DC possible.) This skill is also very useful if the campaign takes you into regions where devil-summoning is viewed askance. "No, I'm an optometrist actually."

If you can cover these and still have ranks left over, spend on skills as for a normal PC -- Perception, Knowledges, what have you.

Feats: If you're playing a blast-y Diabolist, then go and look at some of the guides for blasters. No rush, we'll wait. Meanwhile, here are some other feats you'll want to consider.

Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration -- Is this even a question? Not only will you regularly be dealing with evil outsiders, but you'll inevitably sometimes be giving some of them reason to hate you. And spell resistance is one way a called creature can break out of your circle. You absolutely must have these feats. The only question is when to take them. I'd recommend taking SP at either 7th or 9th level, and GSP no later than 13th.

Spell Focus (Conjuration) -- You want this to crank up the Will save DCs on your Planar Bindings, especially at higher levels. And at middle levels there are lots of perfectly excellent spells that it works with, including web, glitterdust, sleet storm, hungry pit, and cloudkill. Take this at 3rd or 5th level and you'll get lots of use out of it.

Leadership -- If the other PCs aren't forthcoming with help in your conjuring rituals, go and get it yourself. See below for discussion of how this can play out.

Craft Wand -- Take this if you're doing the "wand-wielding imp companion" thing; you'll save a lot of money.

Extend Spell -- Consider either this feat or a Rod of Lesser Metamagic (Extend). The Rod is less of an investment and is probably your better bet, but OTOH this is one of the better metamagic feats... anyway: you want this at levels below 11th, so that you can cast buff spells with a duration that's longer than the casting time of your Planar Binding (10 minutes). Cast Extended Eagle's Splendor at 9th level, and you now have another +2 on your opposed Charisma checks (and on your Bluff and Diplomacy rolls, too, if you're going that route) all through the casting and for 8 minutes beyond. And then cast Extended Protection From Evil and Extended Shield on yourself and any helpers, just in case things go terribly wrong.

Your Imp Companin

The imp companion is one of the most popular class features of the Diabolist class, and with good reason. The imp is a useful tool to begin with – it can fly, turn invisible at will, is telepathic, has constant detect good and detect magic, and a number of useful SLAs including augury once/day and commune (6 questions) once/week. This alone makes it an excellent companion for low and mid-level PCs. But the diabolist’s imp scales with level – it gains HD, feats, skills, and new SLAs as you level up. And it advances according to your combined caster + diabolist levels. (Under the RAW, you could argue that it your diabolist levels count double, since diabolist is a caster class -- in other words, that a wizard 5 / diabolist 5 would get a level 15 imp familiar. But this seems to be one of the rare cases where sloppy language made it past Paizo editing. A companion who advances with your level is plenty good enough. Don't be greedy.)

One popular option is to give the imp a wand and useit to make wand attacks. Activating a wand is a DC 20 Use Magic Device check, with +2 on the check if the user has activated that particular device before. UMD is not a class skill for imps, and the creature’s Cha is only 14. So, if you want your imp to fly around delivering wand attacks, it may be worth investing one of the creature’s feats in Skill Focus: Use Magical Device. The DC does not scale with the power of the wand, so you can equip the imp with a “golf bag” of wands of various levels (fireball, grease, etc.) for use as needed. If you’re going this route, investing a feat of your own in Craft Wand is recommended.

Whether you go this route or not, make sure you have your imp cast augury and commune regularly – knowledge is power, and these are very useful spells.

CAUTION: Do not use your imp as a wand platform until its UMD bonus is up to at least +10, as otherwise you are in danger of a wand mishap – i.e., the imp fireballing your party instead of the enemy.

NOTE: If you lose your imp companion, the ritual to get a new one takes 24 hours of your time, but costs NO money. That’s right – replacing your imp is absolutely free! So unless you’re up against a clock with no chance to take a day off, don’t be shy about putting your little buddy in harm’s way… he’s expendable. Hard cheese for him but, hey, that’s life in Hell. And, really, what's more fun than greeting your new companion with a friendly, "I hope you don't fail me as pathetically as your late predecessor"?


Don't forget about the Agonize spell. It's probably worth mentioning as it is designed to work with binding/bargaining.

Diabolist probably won't need it.


Sandbox wrote:

Don't forget about the Agonize spell. It's probably worth mentioning as it is designed to work with binding/bargaining.

Third level spell, creature gets Spell Resistance and a Fort save -- which is a good save for most devils. You'll feel kind of foolish if you cast this and the creature just stands there grinning at you.

Doing the math, our 9th level caster with 20 Int and Spell Penetration throws this at a bearded devil. The barbazu has SR 16 and +9 Fort (as opposed to its +3 Will). So, 80% chance of overcoming spell resistance x 40% chance of it failing its save = 32% chance of success. Hm.

Still, I wasn't aware of this spell! Thanks for pointing it out.

Doug M.

Liberty's Edge

I love this guide. My players will suffer when they meet the Diabolist !!!

Liberty's Edge

I really do love the diabolist and I could really use a guid of sorts for the Imp companion. I know that his polymorphing could be put to great use, with BS II he gains a +6 to strength of he turns into a medium creature (+2 from spell and +4 from going from a tiny to a small as the polymorph section explains. This can help out is weak 10 STR. He will never be as good as a tiger but can be a scary thing as a Deinonychus, his full BAB and pounce is a powerful combination.

I play the one I have now as the brains of my character who has an int of 7. He follows all of my orders but does them in his way. I said scare the horses to cause a panic he poisoned one attached to the wagon scaring them all. This lead to a horrific scene of three horses trampling one that had a 0 dex and then they started falling. It was not pretty.


You should probably turn this guide into a google doc, so that you can freely edit it.


This goes really well with eldritch heritage: arcane and improved familiar, so you can have an imp familiar as well as an imp companion. Plus, the fact that they get shape change means that you can have a raven on each shoulder, blurting out infernal at passerby's.


Well done. Bookmarked.

I am about to play in Way of the Wicked a Sorceror (Infernal) going into Diabolist and this is exactly what I need. I am also looking at the options that campaign offers (I.e. access to the vampire template for the CHA bump and the Contract Master feat).

*Please* put this up on Google docs - even if it is a living document for now.

Oh and FYI Contract Master + Diabolist means all bindings are at 25% of the base cost....
Not PFS legal but deliciously awesome in the right campaign.


dotting :)


Contract Master is a very overpowered feat. I might allow it anyway -- Way of the Wicked is a very unusual sort of campaign -- but it's worth at least two feats, maybe more. If your DM is cool with it, oh heck yeah. Absolutely take it.

Now, if you're a sorceror? You're casting Planar Binding, not Planar Ally. Planar Binding is much better than Planar Ally. Much, much better. Planar Ally, you must pay just to cast it, and then you pay much more to get the outsider to do anything useful. And your selection of outsiders is far more limited! It's really not a very good spell. Planar Binding, on the other hand, is such a good spell that if a player uses it aggressively, the DM will have to struggle to keep him from breaking the game.

Anyway. Going sorceror? Mind your feats and skills, and recognize that you won't be able to be a kick-butt Diabolist until 11th level. Yes, you get Lesser Planar Ally at 10th, but limited spells known will crimp your style at first. Once you get going, though, your high Cha will sweep all before it. I'd say, throw everything at Cha, stay in sorceror to 7th level for the bonus feat (Infernal bloodline has three good ones: Spell Penetration, Skill Focus Knowledge Planes, and Iron Will -- any of those are fine for a Diabolist), and then buy a scroll and summon a lemure at that point. At 11th level you'll be a Sorc 7 / Diab 4 and you'll have your +4 Infernal Charisma AND your high Cha bonus AND maybe your Contract Master +4 too. That'll be like +14 or something before buffs?

Note that WotW is a campaign where you can have a lot of minions running around -- be organized. See my post on "The Devil at the Table" from a few days ago.

Doug M.


Cheers Doug.

I was aiming to enter Diabolist at level 8 after picking up Spell Pen. Losing the favoured class bonus from the APG is gonna hurt but worth it.

I hate paying five feats to become a vampire (I'd prefer half fiend but oh well) but at least the CHA synergy is off the wall. I will have a CHA 29 without magic items by level 20.

One othrr thing - is planar binding a spell you can ONLY use preparred? The flavour text suggests that casting the spell without Magic Circle/Dimensional Anchor is a bad idea...(my reason for asking is that sorcerors have such limited spells I was curious about corner cases outside of.the spells'intended use).

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Grokk_Bloodfist wrote:


One othrr thing - is planar binding a spell you can ONLY use preparred? The flavour text suggests that casting the spell without Magic Circle/Dimensional Anchor is a bad idea...(my reason for asking is that sorcerors have such limited spells I was curious about corner cases outside of.the spells'intended use).

You absolutely can cast planar binding as a spontaneous spellcaster. However, I don't recommend it unless you either have magic circle against X and dimensional anchor as spells known or have scrolls/wands/staves handy.

This is why I personally consider planar ally to be the better spell. It (theoretically) costs more, but there are fewer fidgety bits and it only very rarely backfires. And you can often get a discount out of the ally by doing something they want to do anyway. Like 'Hey, angel, kill that demon.' or vice verse.

Edit: Some domains give clerics access to planar binding spells. Clerics can't cast the right magic circle to actually use them. See this thread.

Edit: Another edit - A sorcerer can avoid needing to take dimensional anchor by avoiding calling critters with teleport/plane shift/dimension door, like elementals and Fiendish critters.


Way of the Wicked is an all evil campaign with an infernal (Asmodean) focus. My plan is to summon devils primarily since there will be a lot more cohesion.


I'm interested in a Diabolist Oracle of Heavens as my campaign's BBEG. Wiil you discuss divine classes too?


I will, but mostly to dismiss them. A divine class is stuck with Planar Ally instead of Planar Binding, and -- for reasons I discuss in a little detail -- Planar Ally is just very, very inferior to Planar Binding.

However, as a BBEG? Sure, you could make this work.

Doug M.


For your reference: why Planar Ally is much less good than Planar Binding.

It really is!:

Planar Ally versus Planar Binding

There are two sorts of spells used to call outsiders: Planar Ally (a divine spell, used by clerics and oracles) and Planar Binding (an arcane spell, used by sorcerers, summoners, wizards, and witches). How do these two spells compare?

Planar Binding is a Much Better Spell than Planar Ally.

With Planar Ally, you get an outsider who has been sent by your god. The outsider arrives friendly or helpful, is willing to work with you, and is not going to seek revenge unless you do something grossly stupid or offensive. That’s the good news. Now come the problems. Problem #1: you don’t get the outsider you call for! You get whatever outsider the god sends you. Problem #2: you can ONLY ever get an outsider of your god’s alignment (or, if you don’t have a god, your own alignment).

Those are bad enough. But then we have the kicker: “The creature called requires a payment for its services… this payment must be made before the creature agrees to perform any services.” How much? “A task taking up to 1 minute per caster level requires a payment of 100 gp per HD of the creature called. For a task taking up to 1 hour per caster level, the creature requires a payment of 500 gp per HD. A long-term task, one requiring up to 1 day per caster level, requires a payment of 1,000 gp per HD.”

Let that sink in: if you want the outsider to accompany you into the dungeon today, it’s 500 gp/HD. Or more, “if the task is especially hazardous”. And it's RAW that you have to have the cash on hand; the gods don't take credit, apparently.

To be fair, there is a discount clause: “if the task is strongly aligned with the creature's ethos, it may halve or even waive the payment.” But “strongly aligned with the creature’s ethos” is a pretty stringent requirement, one that clearly goes well beyond “be my bodyguard” or “help me kill the monsters and take their stuff”. It’s not entirely clear what “ethos” means here, but I’d say it means you have to match some combination of the creature’s alignment, its personality, and the goals of your deity.

By way of comparison, Planar Binding lets you reach across the multiverse to summon any non-native outsider you think you can handle. You can get the outsider YOU want, alignment not an issue. You don’t have to settle for whatever chump servant your deity happens to have hanging around. And once you call it and bind it, its services are completely, thank you very much, free of charge.

The system tries to balance this by having creatures called with Planar Binding arrive cranky; by making you jump through a mini-game involving magic circles and opposed charisma checks; and by opening up the possibility that these guys may seek revenge on you later. It’s not enough. With a bit of planning and forethought, and some of the tips in this Guide, you can make Planar Binding safe and reliable up to 95% of the time. You can turn Planar Binding into a multi-utility spell with very broad application, to the point where you’re building your character around it. (In fact, this Guide is in large part about doing just that.) That's just never going to be the case with Planar Ally.

To be fair, at higher levels the balance tips back -- a little. Creature power increases exponentially with HD, so 16,000 gp for a 16 HD creature is a much better deal than 4,000 gp for a 4 HD creature. And then of course, when you’re 16th level, 8,000 gp/day is much easier to find. But even at high levels, the greater flexibility of Planar Binding still gives it the edge. Even putting the money issue aside, it’s better to be able to summon any outsider of your choice (though hostile) then to have access to only outsiders of a particular alignment and not of your choice (though friendly).

Finally, let’s note that there are two workarounds to paying the piper. Infernal Bargain (see above) lets you cut the cost in half with an opposed Cha check; “follow me around the dungeon today” drops to 250 gp/HD, which probably starts being an okay deal around CR 12 or so. And the Agonize spell (3rd level) lets you cut the price by an additional 20% to 60%. Of course, that’s at the cost of annoying the creature and making it your enemy, thus neutralizing Planar Ally’s biggest advantage. Honestly, there’s really no way to make this spell shine.

Now, as to your Oracle of the Heavens BBEG... if this guy is below 12th level or so, you automatically take the Awesome Display revelation. It's a no-brainer. The Heavens is one of the weaker Oracle mysteries, except for this revelation. If his Cha is 22, then he can use Color Spray to blind and stun anything with less than 11 HD. Throw in Enlarge Spell (either as a feat or a rod) to get the range up to 30', and maybe Heighten Spell to improve the DCs, and this really gets brutal. Add the Lure of the Heavens mystery for flying, and blast the PCs with this from above while the BBEG's planar allies tear them to shreds. Give him the Star Chart mystery so that he knows the PCs are coming and prepares appropriately. (And give him access to a major source of wealth, so that he has cash to pay for Planar Ally spells.)

Doug M.


I'm making her a very high-level character (beyond 20th) with mythic tiers. Divine Source and the Devil subdomain will do the trick giving her Planar Binding as a spell-like ability. She will have the Possessed Oracle archetype, giving her Animate Objects to have still more guardians at her service. And of course, she will hold a Book of the Damned and her Charisma will be enormous. I expect that the PC will have to earn their victory.^^


Well, in that case I don't have a lot to add. As noted, the Heavens mystery is no great shakes; I don't know if mythic tiers help with that much. With sky-high Cha, though, she could throw Greater Planar Binding all day long and summon a bunch of 16 HD creatures to run at her heels. And then of course there's Gate.

Doug M.


How would you rate cleric (Specifically fiendish vessel) for diabolist


Dustyboy wrote:
How would you rate cleric (Specifically fiendish vessel) for diabolist

Overall I rate clerics mediocre to poor for this PrC. They're already pretty MAD, and adding a bunch of Cha-based abilities doesn't help. They have few energy / blasting spells, so they don't get a lot of mileage out of the Diabolist's cool Hellfire power. And, of course they have to use the second-rate, suboptimal Planar Ally instead of Planar Binding. That's a HUGE disadvantage. (Unless you're building your cleric at 15th level or higher, in which case it's just a medium-large disadvantage.)

But if you're going to play a cleric, a Fiendish Vessel is slightly less bad. Still not as good a diabolist as a wizard, but you could play one that didn't suck, I think. Channel Evil is a nice buff for your hordes of called fiends, and the Devil subdomain gives you Planar Binding -- only for devils, but at least you don't have to pay them. Make sure you play a tiefling subtype that doesn't gank Wis or Cha.

Doug M.

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