Numerous small tweaks made to the Vizier, a couple new Veils, and FEATS!!
A few nitpicks: there is still no description of chakra binding process - there are references to chakra binding, number of chakra binds that vizier can have is listed in the table and chakra bind effects described for each veil but we do not no how to do it - meditate for a hour with item that was imbued? is that automatic if you have veil with item in corresponding slot imbued already? some other way?
Feet: I like anything that increases speed but I expected that it will be veil doing this. Before final editing it probably have a line added saying that only full increments of 5 counts for purpose of tactical combat movement. That also hints that essence bonus could be different or calculated differently because those who use grid during combat won't receive combat benefits until they are able to invest full 5 points of essentia.
And a thought about possible way of restoring staff charges by viziers:
Could it be that instead of making a Use Magic Device check, the vizier could, during the daily process of his veil weaving, recharge a staff by investing a number of essence points equal to the highest spell level in the staff (to make it similar to wizard's staff recharging process). Crafter path could have further abilities that would increase efficiency of recharging staves (either increase the maximum amount of essence that could be invested in a staff or maybe add +1 and later +2 of virtual essence points for purpose of investment in staves: i.e. 12th level crafter vizier invests 5 points [his maximum for that level] and can recharge staff as if he used 6th level spell slot).
Avatar of light should only give a constant lantern archon companion after being chakra bound (i.e. not earlier than 5th level). Not bound avatar of light could give a living spark of light companion that generates light and follows simple command staying within certain range of the veilweaver. Essence invested into this veil could increase radius of light, distance between the spark and creator and/or grant Perception bonuses (or maybe Diplomacy bonuses?) to the vizier within area of the spark's light.
I just downloaded the playtest late last night, so I haven't had much chance to try it out.
Once I get over my first fan-girl squee reaction, I'll make a character and give it a spin.
Yay for doing this!
dotting. I'll try to run some numbers against my library of builds, but I'm unlikely to find anywere to actually play this.
Incarnum? SWEET!
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Biggest changes so far:
-Small adjustments to Arcane Imbuement bonuses to make them more versatile and useful
-Ditchdigger's Armlets and Polar Snowshoes Veils added
-various small grammatical adjustments
-Feats!
Coming up-
I will add some verbage into the document to make it clear that binding a Veil is something that can be automatically done as part of the Veil shaping process once you have an available bind for a given slot.
Arcane Imbuement will continue to get some love and minor adjustments.
More Veils!
Veils are going to be noted to indicate what level you receive the chakra binds at to make the number crunching a little easier for those so inclined.
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And a thought about possible way of restoring staff charges by viziers:
Could it be that instead of making a Use Magic Device check, the vizier could, during the daily process of his veil weaving, recharge a staff by investing a number of essence points equal to the highest spell level in the staff (to make it similar to wizard's staff recharging process). Crafter path could have further abilities that would increase efficiency of recharging staves (either increase the maximum amount of essence that could be invested in a staff or maybe add +1 and later +2 of virtual essence points for purpose of investment in staves: i.e. 12th level crafter vizier invests 5 points [his maximum for that level] and can recharge staff as if he used 6th level spell slot).
So I think investing Essence is going to be the way go here; however, I need to hammer the math out a little bit more. I think 1 Essence = 1 spell level sounds good on paper but is going to end up being very painful to the Vizier over the course of a day. A point of Essence is equal to (roughly) 1/2 - 3/4 of a spell level but it doesn't run out over the course of the day. Depending on your build, that could mean you're forgoing potentially dozens, scores, or even hundreds of points of damage, or extra feet moved, or your defenses are that much lower, meaning you're eating that much more in healing resources.... If at the end of the day, my best case scenario is that I break even on resource expenditure, that means I was roughly as useful as the staff I was recharging.
What are the thoughts on this: I remove the staff specific nomenclature and the Vizier just flat out gets the ability to create a pool of temporary charges in items, be they wands, staves, or wondrous items, by investing Essence in the item at the start of each day.
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What are the thoughts on this: I remove the staff specific nomenclature and the Vizier just flat out gets the ability to create a pool of temporary charges in items, be they wands, staves, or wondrous items, by investing Essence in the item at the start of each day.
I like. I like very much.
When can we pre-order this?
No timelines at this time. We don't like to open up preorders until we have a relatively firm idea of when the content is going to be finished.
Since I've never actually played Incarnum, how does it work?
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Since I've never actually played Incarnum, how does it work?
Odraude my friend, you are in the perfect situation to give feedback as someone new to it and help Michael figure out where more explanations are needed.
Try to figure it out on your own, and if you can't, Ssalarn has some work to do :)
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+1 to Cheapy. A fresh viewpoint unbiased by exposure to the 3.5 version is most welcome.
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Since I've never actually played Incarnum, how does it work?
Cheapy is 100% correct. Your view on the materials is probably one of the most important factors for me. This needs to be more than just a nod to fans of the original material; it needs to be accessible to new people who've never had an opportunity to play with this subsystem. So please, try and make a character! If you find you can't, or that something isn't explained clearly enough for you, let me know, and I'll make it clear, and make sure you're getting the best that I have to offer.
However, if you just wanted a quick and dirty breakdown of how the subsystem works so you can decide if you're interested:
You gain a pool of Essence that you can invest into different abilities. The primary thing you'll invest that into are Veils, magical constructs that occupy a particular slot on your body. Veils have differing natures and abilities depending on the slot they occupy, but they generally either give you a cool supernatural or spell-like ability, a boost to your defenses, or a bonus to various skills. As you levl up you unlock "Binds" for your body slots; unlocking these binds allows you to draw more power out of a Veil occupying that slot for potent new abilities.
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What are the thoughts on this: I remove the staff specific nomenclature and the Vizier just flat out gets the ability to create a pool of temporary charges in items, be they wands, staves, or wondrous items, by investing Essence in the item at the start of each day.I like. I like very much.
Consider it done then. I'll make this change this evening. This actually provides me with a very elegant solution to another problem I was considering.
Well I have a 13 hour shift tomorrow at work. I'll probably look at it then.
Biggest changes so far:
-Small adjustments to Arcane Imbuement bonuses to make them more versatile and useful
-Ditchdigger's Armlets and Polar Snowshoes Veils added
-various small grammatical adjustments
-Feats!Coming up-
I will add some verbage into the document to make it clear that binding a Veil is something that can be automatically done as part of the Veil shaping process once you have an available bind for a given slot.
Arcane Imbuement will continue to get some love and minor adjustments.
More Veils!
Veils are going to be noted to indicate what level you receive the chakra binds at to make the number crunching a little easier for those so inclined.
Very cool. I like some of your take on what I'd suggested. Not sure I would've made the Ditchdigger's Armlets so potent, but you're the dev.
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Very cool. I like some of your take on what I'd suggested. Not sure I would've made the Ditchdigger's Armlets so potent, but you're the dev.
Ditchdigger's Armlets are almost guaranteed to be getting a bit of a nerf in the not too distant future, but I'd rather err a bit on the side of awesome and need to rein it in at this point than introduce something boring.
Thank you for the inspiration!
I thought there was something weird with the feats so I went and opened up my copy of Magic of Incarnum to compare. And most of the feats are the same with just name changes. Is that something you can actually do and still publish it? Incarnum wasn't OGL so it makes me a little concerned, I want to see this project succeed.
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I thought there was something weird with the feats so I went and opened up my copy of Magic of Incarnum to compare. And most of the feats are the same with just name changes. Is that something you can actually do and still publish it? Incarnum wasn't OGL so it makes me a little concerned, I want to see this project succeed.
Many of the feats are made to be in line with Pathfinder and its mechanics (which really do vary in a lot of small but substantial ways from 3.5), and others are completely new with no overlap to the old system. In a system like this, there's only so many ways to say "Gain a bonus to X for each point of Essence invested", and that means a lot of the basic feats are going to look very, very similar to stuff from the original MoI.
The Incarnum book was actually very thorough in its feat system, and it was one of the better things they did in the book. That means, however, that I could lock a monkey in a room and come up with almost the same set of goodies by laying out a very simple set of parameters. "Take class ability X which is unique to class Y and add Z per point of Incarna" is the formula for pretty much all the class specific feats, and it's really a decent formula for introducing the subsystem. Similarly, you can only say "Take this feat to unlock this bind or gain this Veil, or...." in so many ways. I've been working closely with Andreas to make sure we don't cross the line into copyright infringement territory, while still keeping the elements that everyone expects to see. To be perfectly honest, I've been waaaayyyy more concerned that calling this "Magic of Incarna" is going to be a copyright issue, but Andreas assures me that all of that has been taken into account and we've dotted our i's and crossed our t's.There was some stuff that there just aren't feats for currently, specifically because there wasn't a good way to support that idea without edging in to territory that just isn't comfortable for copyright purposes; everything else that is currently there that has overlap with the original material has an OGL analog that syncs with the subsystem and should not be an issue.
This is interesting. I never looked at the 3.5 version. So this is new to me. It looks very interesting. I do have some comments/questions if someone doesn't mind. Actually it looks like I have a LOT of questions. Sorry, I find this really interesting, but I don't think I'm quite understanding it.
First, I really like the Persian/Indian/Middle Eastern flavor of the text. I don't think I've seen anything quite like it. I'm not sure if that's how it was in the original Magic of Incarnum, but it's a very good "vibe"(for lack of a better word).
How exactly do the veils work? A vizier would meditate and pick their veils at the beginning of the day and they would be set for the day. That is they couldn't change them. I see there are higher level abilities that allow the character to change them, I think. So the character is basically picking a set of powers/buffs that they will have access to throughout the day? Can these veils be "dispelled"? I figure that an antimagic aura would suppress them, but would Dispell magic or something similar cast at the vizier forceably remove one of their veils?
The character can also add essence from their essence pool to these veils to boost them. However, this essence can be moved between the veils to boost different ones at different times. This essence doesn't "go away" does it? I mean it's a resource that gets moved around, not something that's spent, correct?
It also looks like the vizier can bind the veils to a chakra to farther boost it. Or does a veil have to be bound in order for it to be used? Can more then one veil be bound to the same chakra? Can a veil be bound to more then one chakra?
Also, are all the veils available at first level, or do they have to be learned like a wizard would learn spells? Or does the vizier get all the veils for the appropriate chakra when they get access to that charka?
Finally, you don't need a magic item in the slot to use a veil do you? The veil "overlaps" any magic item in the slot, correct? Is there an advantage to having a magic item in the lot and having a veil bound to that chakra?
Yea, a lot of questions. Sorry.
Thanks in advance,
-Kcinlive
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Essence is a constant resource. It isn't expended, so I Vizier with 15 points of Essence at the start of the day will have 15 points at the end of the day (those some of that may be locked into feats or abilities).
Veils do not have to be bound to be used, just to gain the extra abilities tied to the bind. Binds unlock at the appropriate level of Arcane Imbuement and are basically a freebie power-up.
Every Veil available to the class is available right away, and they don't need to be learned like wizard's spells. A vizier could wake up one day and weave a bunch of melee Veils, and then weave controller Veils the next. You actually don't even have to wait until you've gained the bind for a chakra to unlock with Arcane Imbuement to equip a Veil, only to gain its bind abilities. A 1st level Vizier can shape a body slot Veil, he just wouldn't be able to gain it's bind benefit for a good long while.
You don't need a magic item in a slot to equip a Veil there. The Vizier gets the special ability to create his own magic items (or enhance existing ones) and that's how he binds Veils to those slots to gain their most potent abilities, but it isn't necessary just to have a Veil equipped there.
First, I really like the Persian/Indian/Middle Eastern flavor of the text. I don't think I've seen anything quite like it. I'm not sure if that's how it was in the original Magic of Incarnum, but it's a very good "vibe"(for lack of a better word).
MoI's was very bland, devoid of any obvious inspiration - except for the Totemist, which was basically "grab bag of abilities from Magical Beasts throughout the game's history". As much as I loved the system, there was very little built-in flavor like Sslarn's rewrite has.
I'll leave the rest of your questions to the expert(s) =)
Thank you much! I'm understanding this all much better now.
I'm definitely adding this to my buy list when it's released.
-Kcinlive
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First, I really like the Persian/Indian/Middle Eastern flavor of the text. I don't think I've seen anything quite like it. I'm not sure if that's how it was in the original Magic of Incarnum, but it's a very good "vibe"(for lack of a better word).MoI's was very bland, devoid of any obvious inspiration - except for the Totemist, which was basically "grab bag of abilities from Magical Beasts throughout the game's history". As much as I loved the system, there was very little built-in flavor like Sslarn's rewrite has.
I'll leave the rest of your questions to the expert(s) =)
If you like the flavor, wait until you see the Daevic and the Guru. The Vizier had to be kind of bland (by comparison) because as the primary veilweaving class he needed to be something that could be accessed through as wide a range of idea and concepts as possible.
The Daevic, with their Daeva Possession and Passion abilities, and the Guru with its Philosophies are both pretty juicy.Consider that my teaser to keep you interested in the project :)
MoIs flavor was blue.
Rockin' Blue Raspberry!
Essence is a constant resource. It isn't expended, so I Vizier with 15 points of Essence at the start of the day will have 15 points at the end of the day (those some of that may be locked into feats or abilities).
Veils do not have to be bound to be used, just to gain the extra abilities tied to the bind. Binds unlock at the appropriate level of Arcane Imbuement and are basically a freebie power-up.
Every Veil available to the class is available right away, and they don't need to be learned like wizard's spells. A vizier could wake up one day and weave a bunch of melee Veils, and then weave controller Veils the next. You actually don't even have to wait until you've gained the bind for a chakra to unlock with Arcane Imbuement to equip a Veil, only to gain its bind abilities. A 1st level Vizier can shape a body slot Veil, he just wouldn't be able to gain it's bind benefit for a good long while.
This may lead to similar problem as most divine spell - new rulebooks make new spells available to characters from nowhere (IIRC Incarnum wasn't supported to a degree that would make that a problem in 3.5, though). Maybe all "core" veils (i.e. those available in basic Incarna book) are available for free while new books would add exotic veils that have to be selected with feats (possibly two or more veils per feat) - the appropriate rule could be added in the basic Incarna book in anticipation of possible expansions and would save later trouble while costing nothing more than a few additional sentences if the interest will be too small to warrant creation of expansion books.
I don't remember if I wrote that already or not... I think that Constitution requirement could be dropped.
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This may lead to similar problem as most divine spell - new rulebooks make new spells available to characters from nowhere (IIRC Incarnum wasn't supported to a degree that would make that a problem in 3.5, though). Maybe all "core" veils (i.e. those available in basic Incarna book) are available for free while new books would add exotic veils that have to be selected with feats (possibly two or more veils per feat) - the appropriate rule could be added in the basic Incarna book in anticipation of possible expansions and would save later trouble while costing nothing more than a few additional sentences if the interest will be too small to warrant creation of expansion books.
This may be a very good idea if interest continues to grow at the rate it has been. There's a number of related fields we're talking about expanding into if we get enough support for this project (Psicarna anyone?), but this thing has to get off the ground first.
I'd prefer to leave the system as open as possible, and just take the utmost care to ensure that new material doesn't disrupt the balance of the old material; but I'm aware that the more a system grows, the more likely it is for some bonkers combination to slip through the cracks.
I'd prefer to leave the system as open as possible, and just take the utmost care to ensure that new material doesn't disrupt the balance of the old material; but I'm aware that the more a system grows, the more likely it is for some bonkers combination to slip through the cracks.
There is simple solution - in the basic Incarna book in description of each class you write that they gain access to all veils associated with their class in that book. Then in each supplement you can write that appropriate classes gain free access to corresponding veils listed in that book (or with expenditure of feat or whatever will be deemed appropriate).
If you in the basic rules state that they will get access to all veils it will be more awkward to contradict that rule in further expansion stating that no, they actually don't get access to all veils.
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Quick question on Arcane Imbuement:
It seems like people aren't feeling the static bonuses too much, is that accurate, or are the people who don't like it just the most verbal?
Follow up question: Once upon a time this class had a whole "Sorcerer's Apprentice" trick where it could animate all of it's Arcane Imbuement items to create an army of tiny veil wearing companions. That proved troublesome and had some of the same issues as the master summoner when they had their own actions, and was actually just plain terrible if the Vizier had to spend his own actions to command each one individually.
So what if your Arcane Imbuements could be assembled into a kind of Incarna Golem that you could attach your Veils to? The Seer path would give enhanced bonuses for the abilities shared with your golem, and the Crafter path would make your golem more durable and combat capable. Or, the Vizier gets a jinn companion who gains a kind of Share Veils ability keying off of Arcane Imbuement.
Thoughts?
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A special thank you to my good friends over at Somnambulent Gamer who took the time to talk about the playtest and project.
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I don't remember if I wrote that already or not... I think that Constitution requirement could be dropped.
I was considering this as well; I think these classes are going to end up with a bit of MAD in them just by the nature of the subsystem and a hardcoded requirement for Constitution seems.... Unnecessary. I've actually been playtesting on my side ignoring that requirement to see if taking it away is going to leave the classes unbalanced; so far, the answer is no, it will not.
Honestly my biggest concerns at this point are:
A) Incarna is supposed to be life energy mixed with magic and a Con requirement does reflect that well
B) Even if the base Incarna classes don't have that requirement, I feel that it should stay a requirement in most of the feats since other classes won't be the natural channels for Essence that the veilweavers are. I'm not sure if that is going to seem like a jarring inconsistency, or a perfectly logical design choice.
C)Vizier seems weird with medium armor, and I've been thinking of taking that away, but he's going to be fairly squishy and a hardcoded Con requirement serves the sneaky purpose of ensuring that new players don't end up with something they think is awesome that gets killed in one round by a goblin with a spear (which sometimes happens anyways.....)
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Changelog note:
Essence of Movement feat added to feat catalogue
Coward's Boots bind changed to grant Essence of Movement instead of Mobility. This should allow for the ability to scale better and be more in line with the flexible nature of the Essence investment subsystem
Polar Snowshoes changed to affect "all creatures other than wearer" instead of "all enemies". This makes more sense thematically, and is more in line with similar Veil abilities.
Eldritch Insight changed to allow Vizier to invest Essence into magic items, allowing him to meet that items use requirements and granting it a pool of temporary charges.
This is just curiosity and preference, but I personally never enjoyed playing characters who make magic items, and I tend to play solo, so I never use teamwork feats.
Are the Crafter and Seer the only two Mystic Attune possibilities, or will this be an area for expansions? The way there are multiple Cavalier orders, Sorcerer Bloodlines or Magic schools?
Loved Incarnum back in the day, and this is looking great!
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This is just curiosity and preference, but I personally never enjoyed playing characters who make magic items, and I tend to play solo, so I never use teamwork feats.
Are the Crafter and Seer the only two Mystic Attune possibilities, or will this be an area for expansions? The way there are multiple Cavalier orders, Sorcerer Bloodlines or Magic schools?
Loved Incarnum back in the day, and this is looking great!
There will be as many additional paths for the Vizier as the interest in this product warrants us taking the time to make :) To be honest, I'd like the opportunity to expand this entire project up to 5 classes, 6+ archetypes, at least as many PrCs, 100+ Veils, and a few dozen more feats :)
We're taking it a step at a time though and making sure that there's a lasting interest and a continuing positive reception.The other classes all have at least 3 different advancement paths (3 Passions for the Daevic, 3 Philosophies for the Guru), but the Vizier has a ton of versatility already built into the class by virtue of his mastery of the Veil system, and I didn't want to overload new players and playtesters with so many options they'd get lost in the process of trying to decide how to build their character.
I'm thinking of making some tweaks to the class, giving the Vizier some kind of companion (either a jinn or a golem), and allowing his Paths to function a little more independently by virtue of having a built in buddy for them to proc off of (crafting wands and other use-activated items for your jinn, or using your teamwork feats with your golem).
Any thoughts on the class exploring that road? I feel like the characters in literature and pop culture that I drew inspiration from for the Vizier, like the red priestess from GoT, Jafar from Aladdin (don't laugh), the evil aunt from Barb Hendee's Mist-Torn Witches, and various other "power behind the throne types" always have some servant or creation they use to keep from getting their hands dirty.
My biggest reason for not exploring that design paradigm already is that I really don't want the Vizier to turn into a poor-man's Summoner; the focus needs to stay on him and his Veils.
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A) Incarna is supposed to be life energy mixed with magic and a Con requirement does reflect that wellJust a bit of side thinking from the peanut gallery here.
-Why life energy as opposed to the classic 'power of the soul'?
Short answer? We don't want to get sued.
Aside from my own personal bias of thinking soul > life energy on the own-opinion 'coolness' scale. It causes problems for rare fringe situations to list that as life energy. Undead-Incarnate interactions are an example of this. Mechanically you run into the problem on Undead not having a Constitution score. Thematically/lore-wise it makes having Undead-Incarnate interactions impossible because once you're dead you don't really have any more life energy.Old MoI allowed for such things by the whole theme of soul orientation; a power source that circumvents life/death because the soul is immortal (and also created awesome things such as the Vivicarnum, the Lost, and Necrocarnum Zombies).
Additionally this creates potential fringe problems with Construct-race interaction. Constructs can be argued to have a soul because of ye-olden 'ghost in the machine' fictional elements. Life energy however they typically really don't have. Instead it's usually raw arcane/elemental/what-have-you magic giving them motion/sentience; hence why Anti Magic Fields tend to screw heavily with them.
Races aside soul-energy I feel allows for better interaction with Construct monster creation and interaction (such as the Midnight Constructs and the Incarnum Golems from MoI). Life Energy in Golem form...not really sure how that works because you already have Flesh and Blood golems to reflect 'life elements', in a stretched matter of speaking.
_________I'm quite interested in knowing where this lore concept comes from and how it's going to apply to the flavor of your Incarnum system.
So: Life energy =/= positive energy. Golems and Undead both have life energy of their own, though the Golem's is primarily arcane and the Undead's is tainted by negative energy. These are concepts already somewhat reflected in some of the feats and Veils in the system. There's no reason we can't have golems or undead who are actually entirely animated by Incarna; in fact, a veilweaver whose life energy is so strong that his body is held together and animated by the power stored in his Veils despite his body being damaged beyond the point of death sounds like a pretty cool opportunity for a totally BA bad guy (think Darth Sion from KoTOR 2).
If you like the flavor, wait until you see the Daevic and the Guru. The Vizier had to be kind of bland (by comparison) because as the primary veilweaving class he needed to be something that could be accessed through as wide a range of idea and concepts as possible.
The Daevic, with their Daeva Possession and Passion abilities, and the Guru with its Philosophies are both pretty juicy.Consider that my teaser to keep you interested in the project :)
Very cool. I look forward to it!
-Kcinlive
I don't remember if I wrote that already or not... I think that Constitution requirement could be dropped.I was considering this as well; I think these classes are going to end up with a bit of MAD in them just by the nature of the subsystem and a hardcoded requirement for Constitution seems.... Unnecessary. I've actually been playtesting on my side ignoring that requirement to see if taking it away is going to leave the classes unbalanced; so far, the answer is no, it will not.
Honestly my biggest concerns at this point are:
A) Incarna is supposed to be life energy mixed with magic and a Con requirement does reflect that well
But it automatically prevents construct and undeads from being veilweavers. I already see a potential for undead veilshapers that manipulate stolen energy.
B) Even if the base Incarna classes don't have that requirement, I feel that it should stay a requirement in most of the feats since other classes won't be the natural channels for Essence that the veilweavers are. I'm not sure if that is going to seem like a jarring inconsistency, or a perfectly logical design choice.
I have less problem with Constitution requirement for feats. I would like to see essence feats rebuild, though - with less "invest essence for a day" and more "make a meanigful choices juggling essence between different outlets".
C)Vizier seems weird with medium armor, and I've been thinking of taking that away, but he's going to be fairly squishy and a hardcoded Con requirement serves the sneaky purpose of ensuring that new players don't end up with something they think is awesome that gets killed in one round by a goblin with a spear (which sometimes happens anyways.....)
I expect to see defensive veils in the future...
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No Constitution score. Undead use their Charisma score in place of their Constitution score when calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special ability that relies on Constitution (such as when calculating a breath weapon's DC).
As for constructs, maybe a feat, but is this really going to be an issue?
*sigh* A number of yesterday posts disappeared.
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can a person really put a copyright on the term, 'power of the soul'? I mean, its used all over the place- self-help books, new age philosophy, classical theosophy, etc etc uvam.
I have no knowledge of any previous MoI incarnations or anything, so all I can say is this project is all new territory to me. How does/ could this relate to Ki and/or a Ki Pool? Life energy, power of the soul, etc. resounds of Ki to me, perhaps being used in a different fashion. (I'm sure more knowledgeable people will educate me as to the differences; in fact, I'm looking forward to it!)
The book that this is drawing inspiration from contains fluff, and crunch. The fluff says that basically Incarnum is the power of souls, and a meldshaper literally draws from the energy of once-living creatures that are floating around. Not so much ghosts... more primal than that. It's very descriptive and very specific. (Note: a lot of people didn't like it.)
This book is trying to re-engineer the crunch of that book, being compatible and equivalent while not actually stealing their creation. That's a very difficult balance given that 100% of the mechanics are closed-content. Nobody's allowed to use it but WotC. As has been said, there are only so many ways to make an Improved Initiative feat though, so some nearly identical or identical things will slip in.
The point is that you need to have some overlap in the crunch. Thus it's smartest to have no, or almost no overlap in the fluff, to make it clear this is not just a reprint of the previous book.
Given WotC has some renewed interest in their 3.5 library, Dreamscarred needs to be cautious on this.
This is just curiosity and preference, but I personally never enjoyed playing characters who make magic items, and I tend to play solo, so I never use teamwork feats.
Are the Crafter and Seer the only two Mystic Attune possibilities, or will this be an area for expansions? The way there are multiple Cavalier orders, Sorcerer Bloodlines or Magic schools?
Loved Incarnum back in the day, and this is looking great!
There will be as many additional paths for the Vizier as the interest in this product warrants us taking the time to make :) To be honest, I'd like the opportunity to expand this entire project up to 5 classes, 6+ archetypes, at least as many PrCs, 100+ Veils, and a few dozen more feats :)
We're taking it a step at a time though and making sure that there's a lasting interest and a continuing positive reception.The other classes all have at least 3 different advancement paths (3 Passions for the Daevic, 3 Philosophies for the Guru), but the Vizier has a ton of versatility already built into the class by virtue of his mastery of the Veil system, and I didn't want to overload new players and playtesters with so many options they'd get lost in the process of trying to decide how to build their character.
I'm thinking of making some tweaks to the class, giving the Vizier some kind of companion (either a jinn or a golem), and allowing his Paths to function a little more independently by virtue of having a built in buddy for them to proc off of (crafting wands and other use-activated items for your jinn, or using your teamwork feats with your golem).
Any thoughts on the class exploring that road? I feel like the characters in literature and pop culture that I drew inspiration from for the Vizier, like the red priestess from GoT, Jafar from Aladdin (don't laugh), the evil aunt from Barb Hendee's Mist-Torn Witches, and various other "power behind the throne types" always have some servant or creation they use to keep from getting their hands dirty.
My biggest...
Let's see if I can reconstruct yesterdays post...
I think for the base veilshifting class, as you called it, it would be better withou the golem/jinni companion. Maybe save that idea for an archetype or maybe a possible fourth class.Based on Drejks post that also got deleted, Vizier does sound strange for ths class. I kind of expect a Vizier to be able to advise and/or manipulate people, with a focus in charisma and some class abilities geared for interaction. I suggest changing Vizier for some other name, somehing more spiritual maybe, and saving Vizier for that possible fourth class, making it a cross between party face and poor mans summoner.
Also, I'd like to point out that Summoner is consiered, deservedly or not, to be overpowered and even broken, and it's usually banned by DMs. A poor mans Summoner might be more accepted than the actual Summoner. I'm in favor of it.
I just got the playtest, I played with MoI before and this looks really good. I can't wait for this to be released.
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Here's a couple of ideas for feats:
Something like Bodybound Mind, for Ki and for Grit/Panache. Extra Ki points for the first and increased maximun Grit pool for the other.
A feat that allows you to tie essence to a maneuver or maybe a style, to increase damage rolls of maneuvers in that style. Make some synergy between this project and Path of War.
Daevic Flurry: invest essence to increase damage when two weapon fighting, using Flurry of blows or Whirlwind Attack and a bonus on something else.
Essence of Speed: gain +5 feet of speed per invested point and bonus damage on Spring Attack, Vital Strike and ... is there another move and single attack ability besides Charge?
Imbued Reflexes: Add to the number of AoOs you can make and to your damage or attack with them.