| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Anti-Paladin>Paladin>Fighter...
The Anti-Paladin (who is, technically speaking, a Paladin Archetype) has many of the strengths of the Paladin (Cha to saves, Immunities, ect.) But with stronger offensive ability, a stronger offensive spell list, AND most importantly, does not have that pesky requirement to be LG (Evil is much easier to play xD)
As I mention in the post you quoted, this is meant to be a comparison level 1-20, not just the end-game build (which none of us ever really get to play anyway)... having said that, I recognize that Lay on Hands is one of the best class features in the game and build my Paladins accordingly - at 19th that same Paladin mentioned above would heal, on average, 65 points per use, not 31.5.What am I missing then?
Beginning at 2nd level, a paladin can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch. Each day she can use this ability a number of times equal to 1/2 her paladin level plus her Charisma modifier. With one use of this ability, a paladin can heal 1d6 hit points of damage for every two paladin levels she possesses. Using this ability is a standard action, unless the paladin targets herself, in which case it is a swift action. Despite the name of this ability, a paladin only needs one free hand to use this ability.At 19th level he would heal 9d6. The average of 9d6 is 31.5.
Now, I can see your build where you add Fey Foundling. Which adds an additional 18 hit points per LoH. But you should bear in mind not everyone will make the same build you are. Not everyone is going to super emphasize LoH as you have. And, further Fey Foundling is from a non-core source. Something that I as GM, for instance, don't allow access to. I'm not sure how you're getting 65 points on average, because even after the extra 18 is only 49.5.
Just going to chip in to fill in some info. Tiefling paladins have the following favored class bonus, from the ARG.
Paladin: Add +1 to the amount of damage the paladin heals with lay on hands, but only when the paladin uses that ability on herself.
That's it exactly yes.
Of course different GM's will allow and disallow various things, but I can't possibly offer up an example that's appropriate to everyone's individual games - all we have is the overall rules and everything I posted certainly complies with them. I don't use any 3PP material when discussing the relative strength of builds or classes.
No, I imagine some wouldn't emphasize LoH the way I did, but I would question any build that didn't, especially if discussing an Oath of Vengeance Paladin which, in my experience, tends to be the most common.
We're going off on a little bit of a tangent, I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge that if a GM decided to disallow specific rules that would effectively weaken the Paladin's options and/or abilities, then the Fighter would by default draw closer, yes.
Crusader had alignment restricts too, no?** spoiler omitted **
Don't suppose we could compare them at level 2 or 5 instead if your going to compare the two classes. Rare you even get to see a game reach 20 and it turns into a slightly different game, imo.
I agree with that statement completely, but as with most martials, the lower level you compare them, the less notable the differences tend to be. When doing class comparisons, I usually look at them at 4th, 8th, 12th and 16th which encompasses most of what you would see in your typical AP as well as a spread covering the vast majority of modules.
I agree with that statement completely, but as with most martials, the lower level you compare them, the less notable the differences tend to be. When doing class comparisons, I usually look at them at 4th, 8th, 12th and 16th which encompasses most of what you would see in your typical AP as well as a spread covering the vast majority of modules.
Hmm... Not so sure about how they become different as you level. I think that depends on who your talking about. Fighter tends to stay a lot like he is at level 1 all through his career, barring a few feats maybe, and barbarian has a soft cap at around 12, and paladin/ranger has a lot of varied abilities, but a lot are passives and spells are a big variable. I'm happy as long as its not just talking about 20 though.
Of course different GM's will allow and disallow various things, but I can't possibly offer up an example that's appropriate to everyone's individual games - all we have is the overall rules and everything I posted certainly complies with them. I don't use any 3PP material when discussing the relative strength of builds or classes.
No, I imagine some wouldn't emphasize LoH the way I did, but I would question any build that didn't, especially if discussing an Oath of Vengeance Paladin which, in my experience, tends to be the most common.
We're going off on a little bit of a tangent, I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge that if a GM decided to disallow specific rules that would effectively weaken the Paladin's options and/or abilities, then the Fighter would by default draw closer, yes.
The problem I have is that you're working under the assumption that everything is allowed. Even less common things. It's one thing to assume all the hardback books Paizo has published are allowed. It's another to assume all splat books are allowed.
In general, classes other than fighter are going to benefit a whole lot from splat books because they have a greater myraid of options to enhance. Without the Tiefling book or the book with Fey Foundling LoH isn't nearly as remarkable. But I do agree that it's hard to discuss all possibilities with regard to limitation of sources. But it does point out a problem. Why does the fighter get no love in splat books?
I prefer the traits that are effectively a +2 bonus to saves. Like Reincarnated(+2 vs fear and death effects) and Deathtouch(+2 vs mind affecting)
I think they were expecting new classes instead of just rebuilds of existing ones. And the wording is that the new classes had alignment restricts.
I.e. 'path of war classes' doesn't mean a rebuild of the core classes. It means 'imports of warblade, crusader, etc' from Tome of War.
Crusader had alignment restricts too, no?
==Aelryinth
No, it didn't.
I prefer the traits that are effectively a +2 bonus to saves. Like Reincarnated(+2 vs fear and death effects) and Deathtouch(+2 vs mind affecting)
What does it mean when a Racial Trait says '(Bloodline)' after it? Is it alluding to the Sorcerer's class feature?
Why does the fighter get no love in splat books?Apparently the dev reasoning is that they publish a lot of feat every year so as fighter have a lot of extra feat that help them a lot.
Which would make sense... If more than 25% of all feats were worth a damn. Or if feats allowed characters to do something new instead of giving a +1 here or there...
I prefer the traits that are effectively a +2 bonus to saves. Like Reincarnated(+2 vs fear and death effects) and Deathtouch(+2 vs mind affecting)What does it mean when a Racial Trait says '(Bloodline)' after it? Is it alluding to the Sorcerer's class feature?
"Bloodline Race Traits
Members of any race can select one of these traits, as they represent distant bloodlines intermixed with or corrupting those your race."They are racial traits, but anyone can take them.
I also want to make the point that I in no way dislike Fighters. I dip them frequently and some of my favorite builds growing up were Fighters. Even now, one of my favorite martial builds of all time is a Weaponmaster Fighter who uses a Bardiche, gets Whirlwind Attack at 4th, Lunging Whirlwind Attack at 6th and Dazing Lunging Whirlwind Attack at 11th, turning into an area-effect nightmare who can layer on status effects in ways that a Paladin couldn't hope to match... but by the same token, he has some glaring weaknesses as well which at times make him as great a danger to the party as to the enemy, and is utterly dependent on them for aid when it comes to things like social skills and healing.
Which would make sense... If more than 25% of all feats were worth a damn. Or if feats allowed characters to do something new instead of giving a +1 here or there...Why does the fighter get no love in splat books?Apparently the dev reasoning is that they publish a lot of feat every year so as fighter have a lot of extra feat that help them a lot.
They only way I see to do a fighter is as one who masters multiple combat styles. Feats in one combat style have diminishing returns.
Mounted combat can be good provided your group runs leadership like ours (as in cohorts and followers are something that you pick from what the campaign allows you to select). So I see it as a neat way to get a mount. With how we run leadership, few classes have the luxury to burn a feat whose usefulness is entirely up to the GM.
Which would make sense... If more than 25% of all feats were worth a damn. Or if feats allowed characters to do something new instead of giving a +1 here or there...Why does the fighter get no love in splat books?Apparently the dev reasoning is that they publish a lot of feat every year so as fighter have a lot of extra feat that help them a lot.In fact is a bad reasoning without almost any "if"
Paladins and rangers get new spells with every new book, and those spells are for free. Instant enemy and the lithanies are free power boosters.
MAJOR power boosters. They become automatic 'must-haves' for almost any class build.
No, it didn't.I think they were expecting new classes instead of just rebuilds of existing ones. And the wording is that the new classes had alignment restricts.
I.e. 'path of war classes' doesn't mean a rebuild of the core classes. It means 'imports of warblade, crusader, etc' from Tome of War.
Crusader had alignment restricts too, no?
==Aelryinth
Incorrect.
'Non-neutral' is definitely an alignment restriction.
Certain manuvers were only available to those of specific alignments.
So, it had an effect. Still made for an awesome class, however.
==Aelryinth
Certain manuvers were only available to those of specific alignments.
Devoted spirit didn't actually restrict alignment last I checked. I went through the whole list, but I might have overlooked something. I posted in a spoiler up above so it wouldn't throw anything off track. This stuff was an edition ago and probably not so important on a thread about fighter-paladin in pathfinder.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Anti-Paladin>Paladin>Fighter...
The Anti-Paladin (who is, technically speaking, a Paladin Archetype) has many of the strengths of the Paladin (Cha to saves, Immunities, ect.) But with stronger offensive ability, a stronger offensive spell list, AND most importantly, does not have that pesky requirement to be LG (Evil is much easier to play xD)
Monk>AP>P>F
At 17th level (still high, but just for instance), he'd be getting +6 Strength from Strength of the Beast, +6 Strength from Power of Giants (along with -2 Dex, +4 Con, +4 Natural Armor and Reach)... and then Bloodsworn Retribution alone would grant another +5 to attacks, saves and checks with more or less unlimited duration... all of which would work against Neutrally-aligned foes just as well as against Evil. And then using Divine Bond a non-magical weapon can be made into a +2 weapon with Speed, so...
...an extra attack at full BAB, +4 Natural Armor, +13 attack, +11 damage, +5 saves and +5 skill checks without even considering Smite - and again, that's keeping magic items completely out of the equation as well. Kinda leaves Weapon Training out in the cold in my opinion.
Unsanctioned Knowledge also allows you to pick some nice spells off the Bard/Cleric spell lists. This means access to spells such as good hope, haste, or cleric buffs like divine power which are really good on a Paladin and also work against Neutral and good-aligned foes.
Man. Paladins are looking 100% better than Fighters every second.
Unsanctioned Knowledge also allows you to pick some nice spells off the Bard/Cleric spell lists. This means access to spells such as good hope, haste, or cleric buffs like divine power which are really good on a Paladin and also work against Neutral and good-aligned foes.At 17th level (still high, but just for instance), he'd be getting +6 Strength from Strength of the Beast, +6 Strength from Power of Giants (along with -2 Dex, +4 Con, +4 Natural Armor and Reach)... and then Bloodsworn Retribution alone would grant another +5 to attacks, saves and checks with more or less unlimited duration... all of which would work against Neutrally-aligned foes just as well as against Evil. And then using Divine Bond a non-magical weapon can be made into a +2 weapon with Speed, so...
...an extra attack at full BAB, +4 Natural Armor, +13 attack, +11 damage, +5 saves and +5 skill checks without even considering Smite - and again, that's keeping magic items completely out of the equation as well. Kinda leaves Weapon Training out in the cold in my opinion.
Divine power is attractive. Last high level paladin I built went with bard spells for Unsanctioned Knowledge though, for dance of a hundred cuts (more or less a bard's Divine Power, except you can improve it further with a courageous weapon, for a cool +7 attack/damage/AC) and some sexy lower level spells like Mirror Image and See Invisibility.
For the purposes of this discussion, let's assume a classic party of four make-up made up of an arcane caster (Wizard or Sorcerer), a divine caster (Cleric or Druid), a skill/support character (Bard or Rogue) and then either the Fighter or the Paladin. Let's also assume this party plans to adventure together from levels 1 through 20. The question is who adds more to the group and why?
I've seen the Fighter vs. Paladin discussion before, but it always seems to devolve into a face-off comparison, as if the two were battling it out mano y mano... which isn't really a realistic place to begin or end the debate. This might put things into a better perspective for those with differing opinions to make their points, adventuring with a party where they can compliment others, fulfill various roles, be supported themselves and are expected to take rests when others must.
Thoughts?
EDIT: Let's also assume that the party is a good aligned one, for obvious reasons.
Paladin hands down. As the Paladin your healer only has to worry about the other two party members. The Paladin is an unstoppable monster. Start level 1 with Fey Foundling, then double up with Teifling for the favored class bonus to Lay on Hands. Oath of Vengeance, Sacred Servant (Destruction Domain), Oath against Fiends. Always have Heroes Defiance and Litany of Righteousness loaded. Depending on your starting cha (16 is solid) get extra uses of LoH as needed. If you prefer Human, make the bonus feat the Cha bonus to Initiative. For a stronger Paladin, dip 1 Oracle (Lunar) for the Cha to AC.
Would you then agree to a build comparision? I will like to try the new feats from the later books.Didn't we see and do this before... Like a million times? Building high level characters is... tiresome.
I remember fighter/barbarian, fighter/ ranger, but well It does not matter, I concede that in the double digit levels the paladin inmunities and better saves (and other things) are not matched by the fighter.
I do not think that is the case from 1 to level 10 though, after that a little of multiclassing could help (like 3 levels in chevalier)
*nods*
As I said earlier, I think the fighter is closer to par at the earlier levels (not sure whether the fall off point is around 10 or a little earlier, though). I tend to pay more attention to double digit levels however, just because I've spent more time playing at them.
And I don't think the Paladin is demonstrably worse than the fighter even at lower levels. I think it's probably that the fighter is closer before Paladin spellcasting and a couple other features really start to take off, and before the save and immunity gap becomes really drastic. A handful of first level spells don't have the impact that 15+ spells of various levels (and probably off various lists) do.
See invisibility is very attractive to Paladins since it's a personal spell (and thus no potion support). If you don't like divine power because you think divine favor is good enough for you, you could always go with blessing of fervor because it's amazing. It's kind of like haste but with more options and a +2 to hit, damage, and AC option, or a "stand up as a swift action without provoking" option, or a "move faster" option, or a "free metamagic" option. Honestly, this spell is pretty amazing.
I'm fond to divine power though, because the temporary HP and the very high bonuses to hit and damage is pretty awesome and looks nice when you're auto-confirming critical hits thanks to your bless weapon, but y'know. >_>
Also, Paladins are the superior choice in games filled with tons of encounters and random monsters and such, where it's uncertain if you will get a chance to rest throughout the day. They bring tons of resources to the party, and when dealing with lots of lower-CR encounters don't even have to expend much (if anything) to do their job.
Also pearls of power. Oh my god pearls of power.
Always have Heroes Defiance and Litany of Righteousness loaded.
I feel like Litany of Righteousness is kind of a trap, except that it's a trap baited with power.
I mean, yeah, on one level it is sickeningly powerful, but (as an Oath of Vengeance paladin) you already had enough smites to smite any foe you might cast it against, and Smite is good enough.
Which makes Litany of Righteousness overkill. It's sickeningly powerful only in an area where your cup already runneth over. Overkill = waste, and on top of that it will probably disgruntle your DM if you are dealing so much damage that you could kill the BBEG twice over with one full attack. Once over is enough.
I prefer to use spells to add other things, such as capabilities against neutral foes.
Also pearls of power. Oh my god pearls of power.
Heh, yeah, pearls of power are madly good when your spell power is compressed into only 1st to 4th level spells.
Coriat - I think they never should have added Litany of Righteousness. What a wizard (Magambyan Arcanist) can do UMDing a wand of it is stupid.
I would still never play a paladin unless the GM just threw the code out of the rules.
Cubic Prism, I looked up Magaambyan Arcanist, but I'm not really familiar with what can be done with it (I'm finding it increasingly difficult to keep apprised of and familiar with with even the volume of classes, archetypes, abilities, and all being pumped out within the core setting neutral line - but that's a digression I suppose).
That said, I agree, Litany of Righteousness is a problem spell considering UMD. I just don't think an Oath of Vengeance Paladin, of all people, needs to make it a high priority.
I would still never play a paladin unless the GM just threw the code out of the rules.
That's fine, I wouldn't say a paladin is for everybody, any more than any other class. With that in mind, also, your lack of enjoyment of the Paladin concept has not much bearing on its mechanical power, any more than loving or hating the concept of the fighter changes the balance of that class.
With that in mind, also, your lack of enjoyment of the Paladin concept has not much bearing on its mechanical power, any more than loving or hating the concept of the fighter changes the balance of that class.
This is so true. There's a lot of things with tons of flavor that are mechanically garbage. Most of the most avid monk critics are in fact those who love monks as a concept, as an example.
That being said, IMHO, fighters tend to be on the bottom rung of the martials are the lowest levels. At very low levels, where they compare best to Paladins, they are completely overshadowed by barbarians and rangers (partially because paladins can neither afford heavy armor from the start, nor can they really make better use of it), while being mechanically similar to Paladins at 1st level (Paladins get detect evil, smite evil, +2 will, different class skills; fighter gets +1 feat).
By 4th level, when Fighters get access to Weapon Specilization, Paladins are sitting on Smite Evil 2/day, Divine Grace, Lay on Hands, Aura of Courage (immune to fear), Divine Health (immune to disease), Mercy (remove a bad status ailment each LoH use), Channel Positive Energy, and 1st level Paladin spells (which include lesser restoration, bless weapon, grace, divine favor, and hero's defiance).
I would still never play a paladin unless the GM just threw the code out of the rules.That's fine, I wouldn't say a paladin is for everybody, any more than any other class. With that in mind, also, your lack of enjoyment of the Paladin concept has not much bearing on its mechanical power, any more than loving or hating the concept of the fighter changes the balance of that class.
Our group plays strictly to the rules and I wouldn't like losing my class features every-so-often.
My problem with the paladin is purely mechanical. I have no GMs who can look at that list of class features and not think the code is meant to balance it.
I would still never play a paladin unless the GM just threw the code out of the rules.That's fine, I wouldn't say a paladin is for everybody, any more than any other class. With that in mind, also, your lack of enjoyment of the Paladin concept has not much bearing on its mechanical power, any more than loving or hating the concept of the fighter changes the balance of that class.Our group plays strictly to the rules and I wouldn't like losing my class features every-so-often.
My problem with the paladin is purely mechanical. I have no GMs who can look at that list of class features and not think the code is meant to balance it.
I'm sorry to hear that. Though there's a fair chance that if Paladins are falling frequently in the groups you play with, then it's the alignment rules being misused.
That said, it's not meant to balance anything. They are comparable in terms of game balance to Barbarians and Rangers, and the most powerful classes in the game aren't restricted as such.
By 4th level, when Fighters get access to Weapon Specilization
IMHO a fighter should never grab weapon focus much less weapon specialization. Those feats are relics from 3.5 (more so considering penetrating strike does nothing once you have a +6 equivalent weapon except bypass a little DR/-)
I would still never play a paladin unless the GM just threw the code out of the rules.
Or better! They can give you control of the code... Imagine the narrative power!
I'm sorry to hear that. Though there's a fair chance that if Paladins are falling frequently in the groups you play with, then it's the alignment rules being misused.
That infers there's a right way to use them.
By 4th level, when Fighters get access to Weapon SpecilizationIMHO a fighter should never grab weapon focus much less weapon specialization. Those feats are relics from 3.5 (more so considering penetrating strike does nothing once you have a +6 equivalent weapon except bypass a little DR/-)
I have NEVER (and I mean NEVER) heard every say that...
I have NEVER (and I mean NEVER) heard every say that...By 4th level, when Fighters get access to Weapon SpecilizationIMHO a fighter should never grab weapon focus much less weapon specialization. Those feats are relics from 3.5 (more so considering penetrating strike does nothing once you have a +6 equivalent weapon except bypass a little DR/-)
I have, but its mostly relating to both of those feats being horrifically boring and a bit of a tax. Four of your feats are turned into boring numbers.
I have, but its mostly relating to both of those feats being horrifically boring and a bit of a tax. Four of your feats are turned into boring numbers.I have NEVER (and I mean NEVER) heard every say that...By 4th level, when Fighters get access to Weapon SpecilizationIMHO a fighter should never grab weapon focus much less weapon specialization. Those feats are relics from 3.5 (more so considering penetrating strike does nothing once you have a +6 equivalent weapon except bypass a little DR/-)
Four feats that are useless without a steady stream of the GM handing out particular magic items.
By 4th level, when Fighters get access to Weapon SpecilizationIMHO a fighter should never grab weapon focus much less weapon specialization. Those feats are relics from 3.5 (more so considering penetrating strike does nothing once you have a +6 equivalent weapon except bypass a little DR/-)
Weapon Focus is reasonably solid, though again, annoyingly narrow in scope compared to most other to-hit bonuses. First of all, if you have Power Attack/Deadly Aim (and who doesn't), Weapon Focus basically is Weapon Specialization except you can choose whether you want it to be that or Weapon Focus, and second, there are a lot of good uses for excess attack bonus even beyond converting it into damage with Power Attack. Like converting it into dazing people.
It's probably less attractive for any other class than Fighter since most other classes otherwise benefit from the ability to use different weapons with no opportunity cost, but since Fighter already gets heavily incentivized to pick a weapon and stick with it, it's not like it's putting him anywhere he wasn't already.
I would still never play a paladin unless the GM just threw the code out of the rules.That's fine, I wouldn't say a paladin is for everybody, any more than any other class. With that in mind, also, your lack of enjoyment of the Paladin concept has not much bearing on its mechanical power, any more than loving or hating the concept of the fighter changes the balance of that class.Our group plays strictly to the rules and I wouldn't like losing my class features every-so-often.
My problem with the paladin is purely mechanical. I have no GMs who can look at that list of class features and not think the code is meant to balance it.
I'm sorry to hear that. Though there's a fair chance that if Paladins are falling frequently in the groups you play with, then it's the alignment rules being misused.
That said, it's not meant to balance anything. They are comparable in terms of game balance to Barbarians and Rangers, and the most powerful classes in the game aren't restricted as such.
Most of the code has nothing to do with alignment.
Four feats that are useless without a steady stream of the GM handing out particular magic items.I have, but its mostly relating to both of those feats being horrifically boring and a bit of a tax. Four of your feats are turned into boring numbers.I have NEVER (and I mean NEVER) heard every say that...By 4th level, when Fighters get access to Weapon SpecilizationIMHO a fighter should never grab weapon focus much less weapon specialization. Those feats are relics from 3.5 (more so considering penetrating strike does nothing once you have a +6 equivalent weapon except bypass a little DR/-)
What do the feats have to do with magic items?
I have, but its mostly relating to both of those feats being horrifically boring and a bit of a tax. Four of your feats are turned into boring numbers.I have NEVER (and I mean NEVER) heard every say that...By 4th level, when Fighters get access to Weapon SpecilizationIMHO a fighter should never grab weapon focus much less weapon specialization. Those feats are relics from 3.5 (more so considering penetrating strike does nothing once you have a +6 equivalent weapon except bypass a little DR/-)
True, but just about every optimization guide regarding fighters ALWAYS suggests WF, WS, GWF, and GWS xD. Turns out, Fighter have ALOT of feats... and these feats help push the fighter up on the DPS charts (seeing as fighter's don't have stupid means like Smite to rely on to boost power)
What do the feats have to do with magic items?Four feats that are useless without a steady stream of the GM handing out particular magic items.I have, but its mostly relating to both of those feats being horrifically boring and a bit of a tax. Four of your feats are turned into boring numbers.I have NEVER (and I mean NEVER) heard every say that...By 4th level, when Fighters get access to Weapon SpecilizationIMHO a fighter should never grab weapon focus much less weapon specialization. Those feats are relics from 3.5 (more so considering penetrating strike does nothing once you have a +6 equivalent weapon except bypass a little DR/-)
They have to do with magic items insofar as Weapon Focus (sling staff) is going to be a lot less fun when you're finding magic longbow after magic longbow.
What do the feats have to do with magic items?Four feats that are useless without a steady stream of the GM handing out particular magic items.I have, but its mostly relating to both of those feats being horrifically boring and a bit of a tax. Four of your feats are turned into boring numbers.I have NEVER (and I mean NEVER) heard every say that...By 4th level, when Fighters get access to Weapon SpecilizationIMHO a fighter should never grab weapon focus much less weapon specialization. Those feats are relics from 3.5 (more so considering penetrating strike does nothing once you have a +6 equivalent weapon except bypass a little DR/-)
The feats make you better with ONE kind of weapon that has no guarantee to drop.
Weapon groups are far more sensible.
True, but just about every optimization guide regarding fighters ALWAYS suggests WF, WS, GWF, and GWS xD. Turns out, Fighter have ALOT of feats... and these feats help push the fighter up on the DPS charts (seeing as fighter's don't have stupid means like Smite to rely on to boost power)I have, but its mostly relating to both of those feats being horrifically boring and a bit of a tax. Four of your feats are turned into boring numbers.I have NEVER (and I mean NEVER) heard every say that...By 4th level, when Fighters get access to Weapon SpecilizationIMHO a fighter should never grab weapon focus much less weapon specialization. Those feats are relics from 3.5 (more so considering penetrating strike does nothing once you have a +6 equivalent weapon except bypass a little DR/-)
Until the GM stops fudging loot drops to give you the ONE weapon you're good with.
Until the GM stops fudging loot drops to give you the ONE weapon you're good with.
Does your GM really not let you shop?
But it is also the responsibility to tweak gear for the party to be useful for the party. If the GM is just sending a wall of daggers at the 2HW fighter, then the GM is being a horrible GM. Besides, that is what CRAFTING is for... I am sorry but I have never seen a fighter being forced to run around, swapping weapons like its a freaking WoW game. More often than not, the GM will tweak gear a bit to help the party. Granted it won't be ALL the gear, but there will be something useful for the party.
Until the GM stops fudging loot drops to give you the ONE weapon you're good with.True, but just about every optimization guide regarding fighters ALWAYS suggests WF, WS, GWF, and GWS xD. Turns out, Fighter have ALOT of feats... and these feats help push the fighter up on the DPS charts (seeing as fighter's don't have stupid means like Smite to rely on to boost power)I have, but its mostly relating to both of those feats being horrifically boring and a bit of a tax. Four of your feats are turned into boring numbers.I have NEVER (and I mean NEVER) heard every say that...By 4th level, when Fighters get access to Weapon SpecilizationIMHO a fighter should never grab weapon focus much less weapon specialization. Those feats are relics from 3.5 (more so considering penetrating strike does nothing once you have a +6 equivalent weapon except bypass a little DR/-)
It depends on the weapon, however.
To continue the above example, Weapon Focus (longbow) is probably going to be a lot less fudge-dependent than Weapon Focus (sling staff).
And frankly, a lot of GMs will be willing to do some fudging. I've even read published adventures that say things like "you should customize this treasure to your PCs."
Does your GM really not let you shop?
Until the GM stops fudging loot drops to give you the ONE weapon you're good with.
The best weapon you can buy anywhere is a +2
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Until the GM stops fudging loot drops to give you the ONE weapon you're good with.Does your GM really not let you shop?
Actually, one time I did meet a GM who didn't let you shop. Not because he was against shopping,(I do love good shoes and would hate to lose that kthx), but because he used the rules for magic items and shops strictly and you only went to worthless towns with nothing nice in them and almost no valuable items. Was a written AP too if I remember correctly.
But it is also the responsibility to tweak gear for the party to be useful for the party. If the GM is just sending a wall of daggers at the 2HW fighter, then the GM is being a horrible GM. Besides, that is what CRAFTING is for... I am sorry but I have never seen a fighter being forced to run around, swapping weapons like its a freaking WoW game. More often than not, the GM will tweak gear a bit to help the party. Granted it won't be ALL the gear, but there will be something useful for the party.
No the GM is not suppose to adjust loot drops from APs.
Nor are GMs expected to hand out loot not from the random tables.
Nor are GMs forced to give crafting time to the players.
The best weapon you can buy anywhere is a +2Does your GM really not let you shop?
Until the GM stops fudging loot drops to give you the ONE weapon you're good with.
Is that your opinion or are you going by some mechanical standard?