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i think that H.Orcs are the worst race in the game, and without balancing racial traits and feature like toothy, and the real ferocity (as in diehard) they are near unplayable.
they have the lowest racial PB, and only 1 good feature, wich is martial weapon proficiencies. darkvision is better gained through aasimar or dwarf, and honestly its better just to reflavor a character from a human into an H.Orc so you can actually function.
i would have loved it if they were givin a -2 to cha or int and a static +2 to strength and a variable +2 like humans get. that would make the CRB H.Orc an actual choice other then RP flavor.
I want to say this as nicely as possible, but seriously, this makes you sound like the horrible modern RPG player that everyone complains about.
"UNPLAYABLE?!?!?"
One less skill point per level, one less feat. Unplayable. You are slightly worse at skill checks from one skill, and you're UNPLAYABLE. One less feat, and you're UNPLAYABLE. YOU CANNOT PLAY. So any character that spends one feat on pure flavor - or, how about spending a feat on weapon proficiency with Falchion - a great weapon.
You cannot play a character with one missing feat and one missing skill point per level, who gets darkvision and good weapon use instead. Yeah, you're officially that guy.
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I think everyone already knows that half-orcs are objectively the best core race. This is is so objective, it's more objective than the alignment system.This is the funniest thing I have heard all day:D
First, nearly everything is more objective than the alignment system.
Second, I prefer the HO over the human nearly every time.| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
First, nearly everything is more objective than the alignment system.
I think that's the joke. Though there are some people who think otherwise.
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Giving the +2 flexibility to half-orcs is one of my very favorite changes Pathfinder made when it comes to the changes for races.
In older versions of the game, half-orcs always felt more like "half an orc" in terms of capabilities, rather than a creature that was half-human, half-orc. I feel like Pathfinder got this right. A crossbreed should be varied, and should have as much potential for human adaptability as anyone else descended from a human.
Plus I love I can actually play a half-orc spellcaster if I want to.
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I like the floating +2, mostly because it allowed my Half-Orc Bard not to be completely crippled.
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I want to say this as nicely as possible, but seriously, this makes you sound like the horrible modern RPG player that everyone complains about.
awe thank you, i would much rather be referred to as a "modern gamer" then an antiquated 2ed RP only guy who cant stand eastern characters in my western games. AND yes I AM THAT GUY WHO WONT CHOOSE A TERRIBLE RACE JUST TO HAVE HALF ORC ON MY CHARACTER SHEET ill play a human and put half orc right next to it in parentheses
"UNPLAYABLE?!?!?"
One less skill point per level, one less feat. Unplayable. You are slightly worse at skill checks from one skill
more like you have one less skill completely. my half orc can only get me 3 maxed out skills, instead of 4
One less feat
makes on massive difference ALL THE WAY TO 20.
So any character that spends one feat on pure flavorgo ahead and play the way you want to, but im going to lol at bad choices just for "flavor" and im not even a super crazy optmizer
or, how about spending a feat on weapon proficiency with Falchion - a great weapon.
i can get that with my tengue, my human, and even my flipin half elf which is much much much better then half orc
you're officially that guy.
thank you /kisses
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I'm not a hater, but the floating +2 does seem a little odd to me. This may have something to do with my roots, but I guess I still tend to think of half-orcs as brutish beings, only the most urbane and flexible-minded of whom can even pass in human society. In AD&D, they had not only somewhat lower maximum Intelligence, but punishing limits on Dexterity and Charisma. However, old school orcs were more bestial; full-blooded orcs were reputed to have trouble mastering crossbows. Still, I can easily guess at why the change was made, and why I might have made the same choice in a similar situation.
First, it would be hard to decide what to give their good mental stat to. Intelligence would be stereotype-shattering; Charisma similarly goes against their class image. That leaves Wisdom. So, that would make half-orcs good druids, clerics, and rangers, and also exceptionally wise, in contrast to their barbaric orc relatives. That's still pretty weird. It's easier to just give up and let players take the bonus in whatever stereotype-breaking ability they want; half the half-orc NPCs were written up that way, anyway. For NPC creation, it's still available to boost Strength or Constitution. In a way, this may be a PC-centric choice; perhaps erudite or charismatic half-orcs are fairly rare, but members of PC races might be unusually likely to have a powerful intellect. Not so dissimilar to the demographic theories of AD&D, anyway; while half-orcs may not well-reputed as wizards, they do have the potentiality of a human if they have the right mix of genetics and drive.
Second, there is the cultural evolution of the orc. The AD&D orc would almost be like a monstrous humanoid in Pathfinder terms; incredibly brutish, violent, lacking in cultural advancements, animalistic in appearances. Early descriptions said they had pig-like faces and the features of carnivores; some illustrations (and the D&D cartoon) followed this aesthetic (partly borrowed from some early Tolkien illustrations) to the degree of depicting pig-faced orcs. AD&D 2e called this description "unkind" but allowed they did have flattened snouts and very rugged looks. 3e turned them into gray-skinned cavemen; it wasn't long before 3e started hinting that you should play your half-orc as a Conan type, with a penetrating mind far beyond his peers and shattering stereotypes of a dull breed of people. So, Pathfinder completes this evolution, turning a half-orc into a human that has lost a lot of what makes an orc, an orc, but retains some ferocity and dark adaptation. This also aligns neatly enough with other depictions; Warcraft orcs are basically Klingons, and we now have Tolkien's orcs on the big screen. Tolkien's orcs actually did not lack in mental capacities as a folk so much as they lacked sanity, compassion, or grace. So, a Pathfinder half-orc is not so different than a Tolkien-ish uruk-hai or one of Saruman's half-orcs.
So, I am okay with the floating bonus thing. What is weird to me is the weapon familiarity. They vary so much in their strengths, and further, could be raised in predominantly human, orc, or half-orc settings. How is that they all settled on falchions and greataxes? The ARG guide only offers flails as a replacement for these weapons. Weapon familiarity is the first thing I would drop from a hybrid race, even if the parent races shared a weapon familiarity.
The stat bump only really matters for PCs and comparisons between PCs. An NPC can have any stats the GM feels like giving them. They aren't bound by point buy totals, or dice rolls, or whatever.
(I'd remove the weapon familiarity from all races; racial features should be strictly genetic and inborn, not things you learn.)
stuff
Look, I'm not going to sit here and extol the benefits of playing a Duergar Paladin because (something about how WoW sucks).
Play any way you want. Dislike Half-Orc. But saying it's unplayable is just really tough to support. A glance at the optimization guides for EVERY class shows Half-Orc as a green choice the majority of the time, with about an equal mix of blue and orange.
So basically you think that a race that the general consensus is that's it's pretty good. So either you're right and everyone else is wrong, or your definition of unplayable is "good instead of great."
Counterpoint: human beings (and therefore presumably other humanoids) don't have many strictly genetic and inborn traits. Almost everything we can do is mediated by experience and environment.
So, I am okay with elves having weapon familiarity. Elves are mostly raised by elves, and it fits in with the elven narrative to have a raise with a hundred year long early adulthood casually become up some martial weapon proficiencies in case it comes in handy. But elven weapon familiarity should be the first casualty of alternate racial features.
And half-whatevers should never have weapon familiarity at all.
EDIT: This is growing into a bit of a tangent. But my point was that half-orcs have probably changed both for flavor reasons and to make life simpler for the developers.
I personally preferred the Beta +STR+WIS/-INT model, but the current feels fine to me.
I do wish that the art style matched this more (and even the Beta model wasn't outside Human strength norms),
it's just ridiculously beefy in most all imagery, like Gorillas or something, and you just never see "shrimpy" Half-Orcs.
Similar for Dwarves in terms of artwork's depicted builds... unless that bulk is mostly fat :-)
