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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. Organized Play Member. 61 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Organized Play character.


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I know you're all busy with Starfinder 2e and the Remaster and new books, but is there any update to getting more stuff added to this list?


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graystone wrote:
Oskar Metalsound wrote:
Something I can't find is what happens when a Spellstrike misses. Is the spell lost? Does your Spellstrike need to be recharged after a miss or only after a hit?
"Your spell is coupled with your attack, using your attack roll result to determine the effects of both the Strike and the spell." so if you are attacking with a spell attack spell, if you check whatever you rolled for both: if you crit succeed, both Strike and spell do that. If you succeed, both succeed and if the Strike missed or crit misses that so to does the spell.

Right that all makes sense, but the way the Expanded Spellstrike is written is what makes me question what happens to the spell. With that, the spell is only expended on a critical failure. So is that different from regular spellstrike or does that work the same way? And if I do miss with that but don't lose the spell, do I still need to recharge Spellstrike? That's why I think we need a basic "If you miss with a Spellstrike" but of wording added.


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Something I can't find is what happens when a Spellstrike misses. Is the spell lost? Does your Spellstrike need to be recharged after a miss or only after a hit?


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I've been looking through the Bestiary 2 and thought it was odd that they are the only big outsider from 1e that's not in yet. Did they get the Inevitable treatment where they got folded into another outsider type?


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So at the start of book 6 when the party is... "encouraged" to engage in the chase with the Wild Hunt, it never says how many Pursuit Points the party actually starts with. It gives you ways to gain or lose them, but never actually gives you a starting total to begin with. I feel like 3 is a good number, but I curious what other think.


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I wouldn't mind a reprint of most of the character options from the APs, since it's a pain to reference them if you use multiple options from them.


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"Nocticula showed up like a straight up bro and a real sweetheart."


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Mekkis wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
Mekkis wrote:

What I would like to see in the Bestiary is a "Lore" section that provides knowledge DCs and their results.

Similar to what was found in Monster Manual IV and Monster Manual V from 3.5e.

The return of Bear Lore?

Not sure what that is. This is what I mean...

Monster Manual IV wrote:


Characters with ranks in Knowledge (The Planes) can learn more about cyclonic ravagers. When a character makes a successful skill check, the following lore is revealed, including the information from lower DCs.

DC15: This creature composed of howling winds is obviously an elemental. This result reveals all elemental traits and the air subtype.

DC25: This creature is a cyclonic ragager, an avatar of Yan-C-Bin, Prince of Evil Air Elementals. Its transparent body is made only of violent wind.

DC30: The cyclonic ravager's command of air allows it to move its opponents and allies around the battlefield.

DC35: A cyclonic ravager can tear a creature apart with blasts of wind, but creatures immune to critical hits take far less damage.

Bear Lore was an old joke from the first CRB for 4th edition where an example of a Ranger's Nature check on bears revealed some rather... obvious things about bears. Basically, for a DC 15 Nature check, it would tell you that cave bears prefer to live in caves. At DC 20 it would tell you that bears use their claws to kill things.

So, similar to the chart you posted, except all the information was really, really obvious.


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Based on something that actually happened in our Giantslayer game:

71) The door handle of an outhouse.


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I would say yes, since the scroll is used when you cast a spell, regardless of if the spell succeeds or not, in the same way the spell slot is used when you cast those spells and it fails for the same reason.


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Mars Roma wrote:
GM Rednal wrote:
If you think there's an uh-oh here, you're overthinking it. ^^ The feat has a calculation to get you a new effective caster level (for overcoming SR, etc), and a calculation to get you a new effective Kineticist level (for damage). Both of these matter, because Kinetic Blasts are supposed to have those values.
I know and I seem to be failing to explain to you that their Effective Kineticists Level already tells you their Caster Level. Because we all know thats what that means. So Why mention it in the Feat? I can't make it any clearer at this point. Sorry I failed you.

My guess as to why it is mentioned in that feat is to clarify that the composite blast created by that feat uses both the average level for determining damage and the average caster level for determining effects that require a caster level. As to why they had you use the caster level as a way to determine the average Kineticist level, I can't be completely sure. However, even that ability states that the damage is based on the Kineticist effective level, which in this particular case is equal to an average of the two caster levels.

Personally, since this is the only ability that uses caster level in any way to determine the Kineticist Level for figuring out damage, I think the more likely solution is that this feat was not fully thought out, rather than literally every single other instance referencing Kineticist Level rather than Caster Level.

The Interweave Composite Blast feat is essentially a corner case where the wording would allow the altering of a caster level to potentially effect damage. However, as pointed out earlier in the thread, you can't reduce the caster level of a blast because they always have an effective spell level equal to half the Kineticist level, meaning you can never reduce the Caster Level to the point where it would effect the damage, as the minimum caster level would always be an odd number where you previously received an increase in damage.. Theoretically, you could *increase* the caster level via some method to increase the damage, but you can't reduce it. So I was wrong earlier when I said that rule had no bearing on this situation. In this one specific situation, it does, but only in doing literally the exact opposite of what you want.


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Mars Roma wrote:

Actually, upon review of the thread following my reply to you I noticed a discrepancy with everyone, including myself, referencing a Kineticists Blasts and their CHARACTER LEVEL effecting their damage during the beginning of this Thread. This is a mistake. As your Character level is the sum of your Class Levels if you Multi-Class.

I admitted to being wrong about the CL=HD thing. but then I found in the rules of Caster level that Caster level was Equal to CLASS Level. This makes more sense, in regards to how the interaction between Kineticists Level and Caster level effect their damage.

So here I go, after looking over all the posts I've made and the posts that refuted them, one more time.

SLA's are effectively spells, thus subject to some of the same rules as Spells, and since Caster level equals Class Level(In this case Kineticists Level) and Spells(and thus SLA's) can have their Caster Level lowered to effect the variables dependent on Damage, Range and others factors, this means with all these rules in mind,(BARRING the whole Effective Spell Level thing) that Kineticists could have lowered their Damage according to the rules. Also Mentioned before, because its not stated explicitly in the rules that lowering your CL for SLA's doesn't change their Variable Damage UNLESS there's Spell Level Involved that requires a MINIMUM CL to cast said spell. Which is the case with Kineticists, With Kineticists Blasts,...

Okay, I found where you are tripping up here.

Normally, you are correct in that spells (and thus likely SLAs as well) can have their damage lowered by voluntarily casting as a lower caster level. The reason this works is because their damage is derived from the caster level of the spell. A 9th level wizard casts Fireball with a caster level of 9, so he does 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level, for a total of 9d6 damage. Now, that same wizard can choose to cast the spell at Caster Level 5 instead (the minimum for Fireball). If he does so, then the spell deals 5d6 damage instead. That all works fine.

The reason this doesn't apply for the Kineticist ability Kinetic Blast is becuase the ability modifies how the SLA calculated damage so that it's not based on Caster Level, it's based on Kineticist level. Now again, as we both agree, 99% of the time these two numbers are going to be the same. However, they are not subject to the same rules. Kineticist Level can not be lowered voluntarily like Caster Level can.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/kineticist/#TOC-Ki netic-Blast-Sp-

To quote from that link:

"Physical blasts are ranged attacks that deal an amount of damage equal to 1d6+1 + the kineticist’s Constitution modifier, increasing by 1d6+1 for every 2 kineticist levels beyond 1st. Spell resistance doesn’t apply against physical blasts.

Energy blasts are ranged touch attacks that deal an amount of damage equal to 1d6 + 1/2 the kineticist’s Constitution modifier, increasing by 1d6 for every 2 kineticist levels beyond 1st."

Each of these says Kineticist Level. It does not say Caster Level. Even if the number is the same, they are treated differently and subject to different rules. Specifically, Kineticist Levels can not be voluntarily lowered to do less damage. That is why you can not do what you want. It has nothing to do with effective caster level and everything to do with how the power is worded. And just to make it clear, here is the Composite Blast section as well:

"Physical composite blasts deal an amount of damage equal to 2d6+2 + the kineticist’s Constitution modifier, increasing by 2d6+2 for every 2 kineticist levels beyond 1st.

Energy composite blasts deal an amount of damage equal to 2d6 + 1/2 the kineticist’s Constitution modifier, increasing by 2d6 for every 2 kineticist levels beyond 1st."

The wording of these powers supercedes how regular SLAs work. Yes, almost every other SLA in the game is effected by adjusting Caster Level. Kinetic Blast isn't, because the wording of the power specifically states that damage is effected by Kineticist Level.

I know you seem hung up on the fact that a Kineticist Caster Level would be equal to their Kineticist level, so the values seem interchangeable, but they are not. The first value (Kineticist Level) determines the second (Caster Level), then any adjustments to the second are applied directly to it without effecting the first.

So a 11th level Kineticist with a Con mod of 0(solely to eliminate a variable, I am aware that a Kineticist would likely have a higher one, but will leave it out for now) has a blast that does 6d6+6 with a Caster Level of 11. Now, lets say you want to lower the Caster Level to CL7 (and for the sake of argument, we'll say that you can lower it to that amount). Your caster level is now 7, but your Kineticist level remains 11. So, when we check the Blast to see how much damage it does, it is still 6d6+6 because you Kineticist level did not change, even though the caster level did.

Does this make sense to you? I'm being as clear as I possibly can be and I hope I've communicated exactly what is going on here.


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Mars Roma wrote:
TrinitysEnd wrote:
Mars Roma wrote:

Up to until the post about Kinetic Blasts having an Effective Spell Level, I was discussing how the existing rules worked.

did you not read my last post, did you not read the suggested Errata I made? Not hard for someone who has read the entire thread to gleam what can be done from there. Here, Just take this and repurpose it for a FAQ. Sorry I made an example, thought it would make things simpler.

The fact that you'd need Errata to make it align with what you want means that the rules don't support that reading. No one is trying to attack you, we are trying to explain to you why it doesn't work the way you want it to. We've quoted the rules, given all the arguments, and more, but it's still not enough apparently.

I'm going to bow out of this as the answer has been stated a dozen times. And there is no point continuing it again and again. I wish you luck on getting the Errata you want Mars, but please take a breather. Grab a cup of cocoa and please stop viewing every post as daggers trying to enter your spleen.

In this post, I have already Conceded that it doesn't work, because someone cited a rule. I was RELIEVED when someone finally did that. Instead of pointing at the same thing I did and just saying "that's not how it works" when I explained why it does within the rules. Just because you agree that they're right in saying I'm wrong doesn't mean I didn't make the effort to point out why I am right.

It's weird people think I feel attacked, just Irritated that their post has no rules citation that proves me wrong. Which it didn't, everything I cited up to that point, was right, effective Spell Level is part of the rules I cited up to that Point. If not for that, you could lower Kineticists Blasts Damage by the rules. Sorry I didn't think of...

I find it hilarious that a post regard effective spell levels, which have no bearing on Kinetic Blast damage, convinces you that you are wrong because it "cites a rule", but directly quoting the part of the Kinetic Blast rules that say the damage is based on Kineticist level proves nothing.

Your basic point is that since Kinetic Blast Caster Level is based on Kineticist level, the two are (almost) always equal. Therefore, they are interchangeable. Therefore, if you lower the Caster Level you also lower the effective Kineticist Level. This isn't true. KL to CL is a one way street. Any adjustment to Caster Level does not effect an individual Kineticists level. Since, per the rules of Kinetic Blast, damage is 1d6 + 1d6 per 2 Kineticist levels, any adjustment to Caster Level has no effect on damage.


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UnArcaneElection wrote:

Oops -- just realized that I somehow missed a major portion of the middle of this thread, which points out that Kinetic Blasts depend upon Kineticist level independently of the Caster Level that normally depends upon the Kineticist level. Weird . . . another example of the Occult classes being unnecessarily complicated.

Yeah, honestly I feel like they wanted to avoid having every class in the book be a spell caster, but still wanted to go with the Psychic Avatar-style elemental benders. So they made the Kineticist powers all SLAs so that things like antimagic and SR could balance them out. I feel like maybe they should have instead gone the route of making the Blasts Supernatural Abilities, but saying that they interact with other abilities (such as SR and anti-magic field) as though they were spells with a Caster Level equal to the Kineticist level. Either option is still rather clunky, but it might be slightly more clear how things work in cases like this.


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UnArcaneElection wrote:

I could almost swear to having seen something in some D&D edition that explicitly said that spellcasters can intentionally lower their effective caster level, but I think this may have been pre-Pathfinder.

Edit: Found it in Pathfinder:

A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she’s using to cast the spell.

You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.

In the event that a class feature or other special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as range, duration, and damage dealt), but also to your caster level check to overcome your target’s spell resistance and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both the dispel check and the DC of the check).

The middle part is what you want.

Since a Kinetic Blast is a Spell-Like Ability, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the same thing should apply to it.

As was stated several times throughout the course of this thread, lowering the Caster Level of a Kinetic blast is irrelevant, since the damage of the blast is not based on Caster Level. It is based on Kineticist Level, which can not be lowered. It will make the blast less likely to overcome spell resistance and similar things, but will not effect the amount of damage a blast does.


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Mars Roma wrote:

As Far as I see it, I have, sorry its so hard to explain something like this to other people. If you or anyone else has a problem grasping the concept of what i have explained thus far, Then I'm stumped. I've even gone through the trouble already of explaining further Class Level and Caster Level being more closely related than before. I told you to keep up man and yet you fell behind again. Sorry if I offended you, and that your offense distracted you from reading my previous post between then and now. I would have PM'd you to keep up and not post it in the forums, but I can't, you wont let me and that's your right to do so.

As I said before, I understand your argument. It is wrong. Class level and Caster level are related, but they are not the same thing. If Kinetic Blast damage was supposed to operate off of Caster Level, then the rules would say that it does. Other classes that have abilities like this will specify when an ability works off of Caster Level and when it doesn't. They say it operates off of class level. I don't care how well connected Class level and Caster level are, they are different concepts and are handled differently by the rules. I don't know how much clearer this could be. The rules state in plain black and white exactly how this works and it does not match up with what you want.

Look, if you want to house rule that it does or your personal DM agrees with you and wants things to work that way, that's fine. But you asked if you could lower the damage of a Kinetic Blast by using the rules for lowering the Caster Level of a spell. You can not. Rules as written say that you can not, because Kinetic Blast damage does not operate off of caster level. Just because Class level and Caster level are often the same does not mean they are interchangeable. If all of my AC is derived from Dexterity and Dodge bonuses, that doesn't mean that my AC and my touch AC are the same thing, even if they have the exact same number. They have a different name for a reason.


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Mars Roma wrote:


EDIT EDIT: Glad you caught up Oskar, now keep up.

Maybe save your quips for when you're proven literally anything at all supporting your point.

blahpers wrote:
According to RAW, waiting stealthily for the guard on duty to go relieve himself in the bushes (and thus be occupied or at a disadvantage when you make your move) will be a long wait, as nobody does that sort of thing. Tons of things aren't covered by the rules text. Therefore, they never happen.

No, things that aren't specifically covered in the rules are handled by the Game Master. They don't just "never happen." Instead they go to arbitration. Just because the rules don't define every single kind of interaction possible doesn't mean they aren't permissive. You want to do something, you check if there is a rule. If there is, it defines what you can do. If not, the Game Master arbitrates what is done in that situation and has final say in how things are handled.


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Mars Roma wrote:

True, I can't make it any clearer at this point as to why I'm confused. when SLA's say they are both a Spell and not a Spell and when something says CL has some degree of bearing on damage. That you all look at the points I've made but not the lines I've draw between them. I understand that Caster Level and Class Level are different, but the only thing i asked you all to prescribe to is that since Kineticists are solely dependent on SLA's and nothing else. That the Rules that apply to SLA's apply to them as well.

It's at this juncture that I should point out that me bringing up the CL = HD would cause some problems if they Multi-classed. So i was wrong to do so. But that's why when I found Interweave, it showed another layer to the CL Discussion regarding their Importance to their damage. Not to mention Caster level Equals Class level.

So with all that, I have to concede, and ask only for clarification on whether or not a Kineticists Can lower their Damage. I presented a Solution, Why It should work already, and a way to avoid changing the rules in Kinetic Blasts damage being CL based. Which their damage Shouldn't be based on CL, It would cause too many problems and leave open room for abuse.

You have to understand that I was a bit put off by people who only chimed in with scarce disapproval, Contributing nothing more to the Conversation. I only Ignored some people, but not TOZ and Graystone, I tried to respond to each of your rebuttals you had about my interpretation of the rules. Oskar Clearly didnt read everything as was apparent with a few others. Hence my need to repeat my self. Pointing out what you may have missed like I believed Mark missed because he seemed unsure of all the rules. Highlighting my need to go over them just in case there was something that would suggest that you could.

I haven't Given up, I still think that rules are written say that you can, everything is there. So don't give up on me yet, things are Fun when we are talking about something that does less damage and...

Look, we all understand the argument you are making. Spells do damage based on caster level. SLA function like spells in most regards, so they also deal damage based on caster level. A spell caster can lower the caster level of their spells, so they can also lower the caster level of their SLAs. Lower caster level means less damage. Since Kinetic Blasts are SLAs, you can lower their caster level, which should result in less damage, since that is how it works for all other SLAs and spells.

Here is where you get tripped up. The specific wording of Kinetic Blast says that the damage is based on Kineticist level. This supersedes how SLA damage is normally calculated, which is via Caster Level. That is why Caster Level doesn't matter, because the rules specifically state that the Kinetic Blast SLA calculates damage differently. I can't make it any clearer.


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Mars Roma wrote:

And yet they're both Shapes.

KB are SLA's--->SLA's Function Like Spells---> Spells CL can be Lowered--->SLA without CL = HD--->KB has a CL--->CL can be Lowered because its effectively a Spell.

@Val'bryn2 sorry I'd delete it but i cant anymore. I apologize, I just feel attacked because everyone else isnt seeing the lines I've draw out for them and it looked to me like it was because of what Mark said. Also Can rogues only use some of their sneak attack? Probably not, but they can certainly chose not to do Sneak attack when they can. These are two different cases, solely based off the fact that Sneak attack isnt a SLA.

And regarding Metamagic feats. True. But Spell Focus effects SLA's.

I understand what you are saying. You are ignoring the fact that the damage isn't based on Caster Level. When damage is based on Caster Level it is specifically stated. Kinetic Blasts damage is based on Kineticist level.

Lets just, for the sake of argument, say that everything you typed up there is true. I'm a 9th level Kineticist and I use a blast. I decide to lower the caster level from the theoretical CL9 to CL5, for some reason. According to the rules, I still do 5d6 damage because regardless of what I change my caster level to, my Kineticist level remains unchanged.

Let me ask you this. If my hypothetical 9th level Kineticist multiclasses into a Prestige class that lets me stack my Caster level in a previous class with the new class levels, would my blast damage go up? No, it would not because this new class is not a Kineticist and does not give me a more powerful blast.


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Mars Roma wrote:

How is it when something Functions like something else but isn't subject to the same rules that effect the original? Why is it when you can Lower your Caster level for a spell doesn't apply to SLA's when they functions like Spells and spells function based on CL and CL can be lowered to effect their variable damage and range like a spell because they seem to me to function just like a Spell which they do because its stated that they do.

Oskar Metalsound wrote:
None of that really matters though because Kineticist damage is not based on Caster Level, it's based on Kineticist Level. So a 9th level Kineticist can lower their caster level as much as they want, the ability still does damage as a 9th level Kineticist, because that is their level.
and graystone questioned why i had to repeat myself. When I have gone to such great lengths to explain why I think this way.

Squares are Rectangles but Rectangles are not Squares. The description of Spell Like Abilities specifically states that SLA are similar to, but not the same as, spells. SLA's can't be counterspelled like Spells can. They don't use any components. They can't have metamagic applied to them the way spells can. Lastly, it is stated that their caster level is fixed and not always based on the hit die or casting ability of the creature in question. They do not always function like spells and adjustment of caster level is a grey area. There is no hard rule saying that this can or can not happen, so we need to interpret the rules that we do have to try an figure out what fits.

I feel like this is relevant because you keep trying say that because certain things are calculated the same way, they are functionally the same thing. This is not true.

In cases where Caster Level is relevant to damage, it will specifically state that a Caster Level is used. 1d6 per Caster Level. No where in the Kineticist description for it's damage does it say Caster Level. Damage does not function of Caster Level, it does not effect damage what so ever. Even if an SLAs caster level can be lowered, it would change the blasts damage. It could effect getting past SR or similar situations, but it would not effect damage because the damage is not based on Caster Level.


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Mars Roma wrote:
except I did when I explained that SLA's work as spells and thus can have their Caster Level lowered to deal less damage.

SLA's are not spells, they function like spells. Lowering caster level is something that is done while casting a spell, it never mentions Spell Like Abilities in that section at all. It is a somewhat grey area and I could see it being ruled either way, but as I'm seeing it the rules don't appear to allow you to modify the Caster Level of an SLA the way you can a spell.

None of that really matters though because Kineticist damage is not based on Caster Level, it's based on Kineticist Level. So a 9th level Kineticist can lower their caster level as much as they want, the ability still does damage as a 9th level Kineticist, because that is their level.


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Mars Roma wrote:

Spells like Searing Light are 1d8 per two Caster Levels. So lowering your max caster level of 8 to 2 should make you only roll 1d8. So when you read the rules regarding Castsr Level, then the rules Regarding SLA’s working as spells.

Here,
Following this line of logic the rules say that you can lower your caster level which effects various variables regarding the spell effected by it such as Damage and range. When looking at Kineticists Blasts with this rule in mind and you see a lack of CL mentioned you go back to the rules on SLA’s saying that it’s CL is equal to HD. A Kineticists Charcter Level equals Caster Level in other instances that call for Caster Level. Such as when referencing over coming SR. So why is it that suddenly with all the rules leading up to this point that there is this disconnect between CL and a Kineticists Blasts Damage and their ability to lower their caster level.
When there is a spells example of this such as with Searing light where every two levels there is a damage increase and thusly lowering it every two levels you get lower damage that when a SLA works like a Spell in such a way that lowering your Effective CL by two or more, lowers your damage with that SLA. As is the case needed to lower your damage with kinetic Blasts seeing as they are similar in respects to most spells that...

Rules as written, a Kineticist is not a spell caster and does not have a Caster Level the same way a Wizard, Sorcerer, etc does. Their abilities are based on class level, which can function as a caster level in certain places where it is needed. That doesn't mean they are actually the same thing. A Kineticist blast does not benefit from abilities that increase their caster level, ergo their blast is not based on caster level and is not subject to those same rules.

On the same subject, the rules you linked do not say anywhere that someone using an SLA can lower their caster level like someone casting a spell can. The spells section only ever mentions lowering the caster level when casting a spell, not using a spell like ability. Additionally, the SLA rules state that SLAs get a designated caster level, then provide a way of finding one if it isn't mentioned. So it seems to me that, rules as written, you can not adjust the caster level of an SLA the same way you can a spell.


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Firewarrior44 wrote:
Well given Deity has no actual definition in the game as far as i can tell other than that they grant spells... definite maybe?

A Deity also has access to 5 Domains and 6 Sub Domains, while lower level Divine being such as Demon Lord, Mythic Casters and what have you only grant 4 Domains and 5 Sub-Domains. So that would be the difference, among other things.


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Shadowkire wrote:
Isonaroc wrote:


How the spawn's regeneration works is not explained, only the mechanical effects. It could be it just inherited it, it could be a direct link to Rovagug itself that fuels it. The ambiguity exists (probably deliberately) so making definitive statements about it outside of your own game doesn't exactly mean anything.
Actually Rovagug is locked up, creating the spawn at the "door" to its prison is all it can do. Direct action/links like you suggest doesn't make sense.

His prison prevents him from physically entering any other planes and destroying them. His divine powers can still reach out from the planes and effect the physical world. It's how his clerics get their powers. A divine miracle like reviving a dead creature from a Sphere of Annihilation would easily fall under the effects of a Miracle spell, which his Clerics can cast.


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272. A race where every limb is a separate consciousness

273. A race that becomes more or less intelligent depending on how close all of their fingers are together

274. A race of sentient string that control puppet bodies to interact

275. A group that can not say that most common non-consonant.


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In response to the Sphere of Annihilation arguments made earlier, I would argue that since the Tarrasque gets his regeneration specifically from being a spawn of Rovagug in Pathfinder, said regeneration allows for the Tarrasque to return via the "acts of Gods can restore a creature killed by a Sphere to life" portion of the artifacts text. Essentially, Big T's "always regenerates from any kind of death effect" power is a constant miracle sustained by his connection to the Rough Beast.


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If an Intelligent Magic item enters a Forbiddance effect and it's master failed the will save and the item's alignment didn't match the one specified by the effect, would the item take damage from the effect as well?


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The Redemption Engine has two gay characters in it and Skiver, a prominent character in Tim Pratt's books that aren't about Rodrick and Hrymm, is also gay.


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So, my party had just gotten back to the Cathedral of Minderhal with all the items they needed for the ritual to relight the forge, except for the Dragon breath in the fire geodes. Speaking with Etena, the group learned about the Dragon up in the tower and the Inquisitor that lives below it. Deciding that it might be easier to negotiate with the Dragon, the group decided to sneak into a tower. But they didn't want to fight the Inquisitor. And thus was born a wonderful, horrible plan. But first, some backstory.

Backstory: Our Sorcerer(Weaver) attempted to bluff his way past a Hill Giant patrol by claiming to work for Ogreclease, who at the time of this first bluff was supposed to be a powerful local Ogre boss, but overtime, he evolved into a minor God. He then proceeded to crit basically every bluff check to convince the (rather stupid) Ogres and Giants that Ogreclease existed. So by the time they got back, the ground work for the cult of Ogreclease had already been done.

So, our characters decided that, during one of the Minderhal sermons, one character would be invisible and provide a distraction while the rest of the group used Spider Climb to climb up to the Dragon. The Warpriest/Monk(Mariah) decided that they would be the distraction. So the rest of the party sneaks out of the Cathedral and wait for the sermon to start. When Urathash started to speak about Minderhal, the Warpriest used Enthrall to distract the crowd. While the Stone Giants and Urathash weren't fooled, the Ogres and Hill Giants were easily captivated. Mariah then used Stone Shape and Light to simulate a miracle of Ogreclease. Urathash attempted to sway the crowd, but he wasn't very successful. Eventually though, he cast See Invisibility and found Mariah behind the statue. This lead to Urathash calling Mariah out for 1 on 1 combat. Cut to the tower.

Weaver climbs the tower with the rest of the group (a Magus named Markus, A Barbarian named Grunyar, a Hunter named Cyrus with his lion Tala and a rogue named Thykk) reached the top of the tower. Everyone else hides while Weaver bring the Fire Geodes up and attempts to convince the dragon to light them on fire with it's breath. This naturally confuses the dragon, who attempts to find out what's going on. This leads to the line "Quite trying to change the subject and light my balls on fire."

Unfortunately, the Dragon is 1) Not stupid and 2) able to perceive the other members of the group (except Thykk) so he pins Weaver and calls out the rest of the group. They attempt to negotiate with the Dragon, but negotiations break down when they refuse to give him Angrimosh. The battle began when the party attempted to taunt the dragon into breathing on them. He does not fall for this. The Hunters lion then charge/pounced it for over half it's health and, after a few minor hits from others, Thykk Sneak-Attacked the Dragon to death. So they now don't have the fire breath they need.

Cut back to the Cathedral, where Mariah and Urathash spend a few rounds posing and buffing each before Mariah charges and fails to hit with all her flurries. Urathash then proceeds to one shot her with hammer blows. So the session ends with Mariah unconscious and everyone else on the top of the citadel with no way to know this.

Subplot: Two of our characters are Dwarfs and Thykk, who got this from her brother (a previous character), believes that Dwarfs are rare on the surface because they don't breed well and need to be bred by outsiders. So, with help from her brother, she has 75 Elixers of Love that she has been drugging the dwarfs with. Neither of them failed their saves all night, but I got Thykk's player in the end by having Grunyar make his final Elixer of Love will save while looking at her.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

World of Warcraft’s newest Raid, the Emerald Nightmare, is coming out next week. The nightmare has a lot in common with the Tanglebriar and since I’ve been reading Second Darkness recently, I’ve been thinking about Treerazor. So I decided to try and design a WoW boss fight with one of Pathfinders unique villains. Obviously WoW and Pathfinder are very different, but I hope I could preserve at least a little bit of Treerazor’s unique abilities.

Phase 1: Dimension Lock

Treerazor is a powerful Nascent Demon Lord who can summon minions and teleport at will. In order to defeat him, the elves of Kyonin have decided to use magic to set up a Dimensional Lock that will keep him from teleporting out or his reinforcements from teleporting in. But in order to make sure they actually get Treerazor, they need to set it up at the sight of the battle. The first part of the fight involves waves of adds and mini bosses while the elves of Kyonin attempt to set up the Dimensional lock. Treerazor does not attack in this phase, instead summoning minions and casting Time Stop on the elves working to set up the Dimension Lock.

Three Elven armies accompany the heroes on their quest to slay Treerazor. Each army helps repel demons attacking the wizards setting up the Dimensional Lock. Periodically, Treerazor will cast Time Stop of the army the players are closest to, requiring them to take up the defense of the casting wizards. While doing this, he will summon a mini-boss, with a more powerful mini boss being summoned each time. The first miniboss is a Shemhazian demon, then a Marilith demon and finally a Balor. Additional Glabreezu and cultist adds will spawn in this phase as well. This phase is timed and players have a minute to defeat each mini boss before the Dimensional Lock is ready.

Phase 2: Treerazor

Any adds from the last phase will remain, so they should be killed quickly. He begins this phase by casting Aura of Corruption, causing all players in line-of-sight to Treerazor to be treated as plants. He will periodically hit the tanks with Blackaxe Strike, which does additional Nature damage and reduces the target's armor by 10%, stacking with each hit and lasting 30 seconds. Every 20 seconds, Treerazor will summon a Wall of Thorns to obstruct player movement. He will also target players with Blight, they must hide behind the Walls of Thorns in order to lose line-of-sight with Treerazor to avoid the effect. After 1 minute, Treerazor will cast Defoliate, causing all player who are plants to take lethal damage and destroying all Walls of Thorns following the cast. This phase last until 60% health. At this point, Treerazor cast Anti-Plant Shell and Phase 3 begins

Phase 3: Tanglebriar

Treerazor summons several Walls of Thorns around him. These walls are lower and do not obstruct line-of-sight. All older Walls are destroyed when this phase transitions. Several corrupted plant creatures and blighted fey stream in from around the area. Throughout this phase, Treerazor will cast several abilities. Unholy Blight, which must have the damage split by all players to avoid killing the target. Contagion, which must be dispelled and passed to the corrupted fey. Finally, Treerazor will use Telekinesis to pull players into the Walls of Thorns around the arena. Players must run away and dodge the walls to avoid damage. Melee must take care of the adds while ranged players damage Treerazor down to 40% health. At that point, the last phase begins.

Phase 4: Lord of the Blasted Tarn

This is a mix of Phase 2 and 3. Treerazor will continue to summon Wall of Thorns that can line of sight, as well as pulling player into them with Telekinesis. He will also still cast Unholy Blight, Blight and Defoliate during this phase. Additionally, he will target several players with Control Plants, which instantly dominates and fixates them on another raid member. These players must be kited out of line-of-sight in order to drop the Dominate effect. This phase continues until Treerazor dies.

Mythic Only

Phase 5: Scion of Cyth-Vysug

In Mythic, once Treerazor hits 5% health, he casts Anti-Plant Shell again before running over to a tree at the edge of the arena. He strikes this tree with Blackaxe, healing him to 40% health. He then calls on the power of the Demon Lord Cyth-Vysug, who answers by causing the arena to become fungal and desiccated. Every 30 seconds, Players gain a stacking debuff that increases damage taken by 5%. Treerazor becomes empowered and his Aura of Corruption now lasts for 5 additional seconds out of line-of-sight. Additionally, Cyth-Vysug occasionally corrupts one of the Wall of Thorns in the area, causing it to pulse with damage to anyone standing near it. Otherwise the phase is the same as Phase 4 and continues until Treerazor is dead.

So there you go. Let me know what you think. Also it this belongs in a different forum, feel free to move it, I wasn't sure exactly where it would fit ^_^.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Sap of Saving: When this +1 Sap deals non-lethal damage to a character, they are healed for 1.5x that amount of lethal damage. Any healing source other than a full nights rest that attempts to remove the non-lethal damage of a Sap of Saving must make a DC15 Caster level check. This DC increases by 5 for every time the character has been hit by the Sap.


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taks wrote:

Mental note: vault bad.

My first group, the noobs, just went through A Knight in Need and a quick detour to Vigil. They'll take a few sessions to get to the marsh, let alone the Vault.

My second group starts with Rodrik's funeral today. They pace at about 2 sessions per book section, so they may make it to the Vault sooner.

Some of it does depend on group comp and a bit of luck, but some monsters in the vault are just absolutely horrible if the party doesn't have the tools to counter.

Specifically, my party didn't really have a way to counter the Lurkers in Light, who proceeded to Blind all the martial looking types and make constant Fly-By Attacks. If you play those lurkers smart, they can easily destroy and cripple the party.

The Dragonflys actually got more lucky than anything else. Their Grapple checks prevented the casters from using spells and only one martial character had a cold iron weapon, so their DR kept them up for most of the fight. I also rolled really well for damage. I saw so many 6, 7, and 8s in that fight.


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Well, I brought them all back, some as First-World influenced bodies. Then they all nearly died again as the rest of the vault still nearly killed them.


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Won't work. They all died inside the Vault of Thorns and Bloodtusk has no way to get to them.


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So, those Ultramarine Chasers completely destroyed my party and everyone is dead. Some players are making new characters and some want to bring back their old ones. Still figuring out what I want to do to make this happen, but my current plan is to re-stat Ewigga as a Witch with a non-standard Patron list that will allow me to bring a few of them back to life.


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967. You can not, under any circumstances, Smite Neutral. Even if you shout "PICK A SIDE" when you do.


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You might be able to use Achaekek for that purpose. Relocate the center of his faith to Nidal instead of Mediogalti Island and make Nidal more about murderous ambition rather than torture. General Susumu from the Tian Xia pantheon might also work, but that would take a bit more story reworking to explain why he has a nation so far from his usual center of worship.


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So, some of the players in my Giantslayer game aren't setting nerds like me, so they wanted some context for the area they were going to be starting in. As such, I present to you the post I made on Facebook.

Totally Accurate History and Background for Belkzen and Trunau

There are many places on Golarion where it would suck to live. Unlike most places, which started out fairly okay and then had horrible s+&& happen that made them suck, Belkzen has the distinction of being pretty g#@*$&n s+#%ty before stuff happened to make it worse.

Belkzen is bordered by Varisia (Land of adventure and gypsies) and the Mindspan Mountain Range on the left and Lastwall (Land of Keeping Liches Locked Up) and Ustalav (Transylvania as depicted by Hollywood but also somehow worse) on the right. To the north are the Realm of the Mammoth Lords (As in, riders of mammoths, not just super fat people) and the Worldwound (Demon Yo!). To the south is Nirmathras (Land of I Forget, so no fancy title for you).

Belkzen was “founded” by an Orc, also names Belkzen, who united his people against the Dwarves and managed to take over one of their giant fortresses. The Orcs then went about breaking into tribes and killing each other with much gusto. Their passion for murdering each other was outshone only by their passion for mating with each other and their passion for killing (and sometimes mating with) other races, mostly humans. Due to these finely honed murder skills, the Orcs of Belkzen have been used by outside forces as a powerful army with which to conquor and murder many people. Most famously, the Horde was roused to battle by the Blue Dragon Kazavon, who was so deadly his bones can kill you, and by Tar-Baphon, also known as the Whispering Tyrant, a lich who was strong enough to look at Aroden, God of Humanity, and think “Yeah, I could take him in a fight.” It was the battles against Tar-Baphon that ended up founding the nation of Lastwall, where the Lich is currently sealed away.

The Orcs have, on occasion, made major pushes to expand their borders, mostly southward as it is the easiest direction to push. Lastwall has attempted, and often failed, to stop this expansion. The most recent major push occurred 200 years ago, where much of southern Lastwall was overrun. Many of the farmers and villagers fled, but not all of them. This brings us to the town of Trunau, where you start your adventure.

When everyone else decided to run, the people of Trunau said “F&%+ that noise, bring it you green skinned bastards!” The town has remained standing to this day, weathering many an orc raid. The people of Trunau are close knit and always ready to spring into action to defend their town. Children are taught to fight as soon as they can and not adult goes about unarmed. Every citizen, once they come of age, is given a dagger called a Hope Knife, which they must be ready to use on themselves or their loved ones should they ever be taken alive by orcs.

As fate would have it, your adventure beings on the day of one such coming of age ceremony for the daughter of the Leader of Trunau, Chief Defender Halgra of the Blackened Blades. Her daughter, Ruby, will be presented with her Hope Knife in a ceremony and will then take part in numerous festive games to celebrate her transition into adulthood.

Trunau is located in the southern part of Belkzen, close to the borders of Lastwall and Nirmathras, with which they do a good amount of trade. If you have any questions about fitting your back story into the area or just have some additional questions, let me know.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I have a character that is intending to be a Zen Archer who wants to take the Empty Quiver style feat in order to make melee attacks with his bow-turned-mace. Is he able to do this or does he need the Empty Quiver Flexibility in order to use his Flurry on the melee attacks?


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James Jacobs wrote:
Oskar Metalsound wrote:

Do the Old Ones and Outer Gods have Heralds like most of the rest of the Golarion Gods and, if so, any chance we will see any in Strange Aeons?

Also, does Zursvaater have a Herald? One didn't appear in the Bestiary for Anvil of Fire, even though the previous two Giant Gods spotlighted were given Heralds.

They do not. As a general rule, only full-on deities have heralds. Not sure why they didn't give Zursvaater a herald; he SHOULD have one, being a full deity, but whatever. Sometimes thinks slip through the cracks.

Cool, thank you. Related question, when a deity loses a herald for whatever reason, how do they get a new one? Would that new herald be a unique being or would it take on the same characteristics as the previous herald?


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So, how much Steel do I need to burn to do that coinshot?


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Do the Old Ones and Outer Gods have Heralds like most of the rest of the Golarion Gods and, if so, any chance we will see any in Strange Aeons?

Also, does Zursvaater have a Herald? One didn't appear in the Bestiary for Anvil of Fire, even though the previous two Giant Gods spotlighted were given Heralds.


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kyrt-ryder wrote:
Oskar Metalsound wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:

Neither. It's a 4 level base class with abilities explicitly intended to scale according to BAB after the class is over.

Okay... That's a really weird concept for a class. Why, exactly, do you want to stuff everything the Fighter does into what is, effectively, a 4 level prestige class that has features that stack with all class levels? You really should either expand it out to a full 20 level class or specifically make it a 4/5/10/whatever level prestige class. As it is now, the class is so different in how it works from everything else that it's hard to visualize how it would work in a Pathfinder game.
You take it when you want to [presumably from Character Level 1] and when it's over you take something else.

Honestly, it feel more like this would work better as a template of sorts that can be applied to other classes.

Template: Soldier

Level 1: Soldiers Fortitude, Soldiers Training

Soldiers Fortitude: Soldiers are trained to be tough. All Martial Classes with this template may increase their Hit Dice by one step (i.e. d10 to d12, d8 to d10, so on)

Soldiers Training: Soldiers often pick up odd skills while they serve. A Soldier receives 4 bonus Skill Points per level

Level 2: Survival Instinct, Cunning Tactics

Survival Instinct: A Soldier needs to keep their wits about them. At level 2 a Soldier gains a +1 Inherent Bonus to all saves. Starting at level 5 and again every 3 levels after, a Soldier receives an additional +1 Inherent Bonus to one saving throw of her choice. These bonuses stack.

Cunning Tactics: At level 2 and at levels 4, 6, 8, 10, 13, 16 and 19, a Soldier receives a bonus Combat feat. Additionally, a Soldier treats all her ability scores and class levels as being 2 higher when it comes to meeting prerequisites for feats.

Level 3: Weightless Armor, Strike with Purpose

Weightless Armor: A Soldier is trained to be at ease in her armor. Starting at level 3 and again every 3 levels after, a Soldier treats the Armor Check Penalty of their armor as 1 less. Additionally, a Soldier may reduce the Movement Speed penalty of any armor she wears by 5 feet per 2 Soldier levels she posses.

Strike with Purpose: A Soldier is trained to strike with purpose. Beginning at level 3, a Soldier may add a +1 bonus to any single attack and damage roll she makes this turn with a weapon she is proficient with. At level 5 and every 4 levels thereafter, she may add an additional +1. This bonus may be added to a single attack or divided in +1 increments as the Soldier sees fit. A Soldier must apply a bonus to attack before the attack is rolled and must add the same amount to damage on that attack.

Level 4: Solid Shield, Rally

Solid Shield: Any time during her turn as a free action, a Soldier may forgo her Shield Bonus to AC to obtain DR/Adamantine or Magic equal to the Shield Bonus. This bonus becomes DR/Adamantine if the shield is magical. An Adamantine shield provides DR/Magic and a Magic Adamantine shield provides DR/-. This does not stack with Adamantine Armor.

Rally: For a number of rounds per day equal to her Martial Class level, a Soldier may obtain Fast Healing 1. At level 8 and every 4 levels thereafter, the Fast Healing value increased by +1, to a max of 5 at level 20.

Level 5: True Warrior

True Warrior: Starting at level 5, any Martial Class with the Soldier template may use her class level as her BaB.

Just off the top of my head, that basically functions as a template that allows any class to replicated the Fighter niche, without the issue of being a 4 level base class.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
kyrt-ryder wrote:

Neither. It's a 4 level base class with abilities explicitly intended to scale according to BAB after the class is over.

Okay... That's a really weird concept for a class. Why, exactly, do you want to stuff everything the Fighter does into what is, effectively, a 4 level prestige class that has features that stack with all class levels? You really should either expand it out to a full 20 level class or specifically make it a 4/5/10/whatever level prestige class. As it is now, the class is so different in how it works from everything else that it's hard to visualize how it would work in a Pathfinder game.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Is this supposed to be a full 20 level base class or a 4 level prestige class? Cause as a full 20 it's incredibly powerful. In addition, all the class features are just numerical bonuses with seem designed to make the class strong by having the highest numbers. Giving it Good saves for everything and a total of +5 to all saves by level 17, in addition to the cloak that a character of that level would have, means you can have a character with a base 21 to all saves before any ability bonuses. At least one save (I'd go with Reflex) should be made a poor save.

The Armor training isn't so bad if you remove the DR and either the sleeping in armor bonus or the Armor check bonus, but together it completely defeats any penalty to wearing the heaviest armor.

Ignoring the numerical prerequisites is a really weird wording of the feature. Does that mean they ignore ability score requirements and level requirements? Because if so, that completely breaks the progression of feats as characters level. Ignoring ability score prerequisite is alright, but if it ignores level requirements as well it should be down to at least once every 4 levels.

Also, make it d12 hit dice if you want high HP. 2d6 just looks confusing for managing hit dice. I know you said earlier that the character at level 4 would have 4 2d6 hit dice, but it runs completely counter to how every other version of hit dice works in the game. It doesn't even effect all that much, because the range of the dice went from 1-12 on a d12 to 2-12 on 2d6. All you did was eliminate the possibility of getting 1 hit point.


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I have been given the blessings of Lightning and Fire in my veins by the living God Razmir and I shall break House Thrune as an offering to him.


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So, I'm horribly evil.

We have three character engaged in a sort of love triangle. We have a Samurai named Shin that is being pursued by a female Barbarian named Karin (most known for stabber her own eyes out attempting to heal a Blindness spell) and a male Gunslinger/Inquisitor named Cherard (most known for being ridiculously gay). Cherard's player couldn't make it, so I was tasked with playing him.

We had just entered the hut and were trying to identify all the neat things we found. Cherard, having some ranks in Spellcraft, managed to be the only character to identify the Elixer of Love. The GM, feeling that it would be interesting to have only me know this, passed me this info in a note. I sent a text to the player informing him that he obtained this and was told that if I could get Shin to drink it, I would become his new god. Challenge accepted.

Opportunity struck a bit later when we engaged with the Bone Golem. Cherard was stuck in the cage with no real hope of getting out until the golem died. Shin, being our Samurai, is our main "takes hits" guy. Previously, we had given him some Potions of Enlarge Person that we found to make him even stronger. So I, as a player, bluffed that I had forgotten one that Cherard had on him. I convinced another character to give Shin the potion and requested that he look at me when he drank it, since Cherard claimed that he was going to die in the cage (which he almost did).

Shin drank the potion, but didn't look at Cherard. He looked at the Bone Golem. After all, he had just challenged it and needed to concentrate on it. It was at that point that I announced to the party that Shin was in love with the Bone Golem and the table exploded with laughter.

Unfortunately he made the will save needed to resist the effect, but I really kind of wish he hadn't. Either way, that was probably the most epic prank I ever pulled on the party.


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So, in our recent AP we made a small house rule to Amulet of Mighty Fists that made it, in my opinion, completely worth the high cost.

It came from a misreading of the Amulets rules I had early on. The part where is says that an AoMF may have an enchantment without a +1 on it, I misread that it can, on the fly, switch out the numerical bonus for available magical weapon effects on the fists. The bonuses are so expensive compared to the flat bonus available from belts, that without that versatility I almost don't think it would be worth going with AoMF over the AoNA.

The fact that only very late in the game was I able to afford the +2 bonus on the Amulet kept it fairly well balanced.


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I did not remember that Stone Salve was a thing. Thank you for reminding me of that. This just got much easier.


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He got hit by Flesh to Stone and we had no way to reverse it... except by rolling a 98-100 on our Rod of Wonder. We rolled the number that turns one object up to 1000 pounds Ethereal. Sooooo yeah, that happened.

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