Hi,
I just wanted to know if there is an easy way to summon a devil or demon for closing a contract?
For example to sell my character's soul in exchange for gaining a half-fiend template or something like that.
I know that there is a chapter in Ultimate Magic about binding outsiders, but is there a way (before gaining the planar spells) to just call a devil for help?
You can use Summon Monster 2 to summon a Lemure and tell it you wish to sell it your soul...however you should consult you GM specifically to see what kind of gifts you could get in return.
For instance, I would never allow you to have the half-fiend template. Unless everyone in the party were recieving a template or some sort of equivalent power boost. Even then, I'm still highly unlikely to allow the party to all recieve such a boon.
There is no approved exchange rate for what you can get for your soul, it's all in the purview of the GM.
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Planar ally can be used to summon more powerful outsiders assuming you meet the necessary prerequisites.. I imagine the usual fee for their "services" will be waived if you're doing this purely to sell your soul in exchange for power. Devils, unlike demons, will actually keep their end of the bargain. They'll give you the power you seek in return for your soul. Demons and daemons are a whole other ball game; demons are more likely than devils to pervert your request and daemons will probably just devour you on the spot.
Contract Devil for the win.
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There is always the devil-bound template from Bestiary 4...but well the devil will send you on a quest and if you don't complete it, your soul is still sold to him. If you complete it, you get some neat benefits. Either way, once you sold your soul, you have to be aware that if you die in game, you will never see this character ever again.
Here is a series of four rituals. Scroll down past the Vrolikai (SR 30) bit to get to the becoming a demon bit. Performing three rituals gives you the half-fiend template, and the fourth makes you a full demon. If you can manage to get this ingame, you should be able to get similar versions for devils and daemons with appropriate alignment and subtype changes. Half-fiend works for all three alignments and subtypes.
Summon Monster would not work, as you do not summon an actual creature, merely a copy of one.
Go for a sending to a phistophilus, or contract devil. Devils will probably give you what you want without screwing you over too much. As I recall, Set did a great post about why, but I can't find it, so here's a summary. Devils want to rule Golarion. They want people to sell themselves, willingly, into damnation. They gain nothing from screwing you over for amusement, because that spreads a bad reputation and makes people less likely to sell their souls. They want a reputation for fairness and keeping their side of the bargain so people will actually be willing to sell their souls.
Edit: To clarify what I said re: Summon Monster:
A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can't be summoned again.
I take this and the fact that summoned creatures obey the summoner regardless of alignment and personality to mean that summoned creatures are not real creatures, but something similar to temporary simulacra. If they summon up actual creatures, then the ramifications of summoning, say, lantern archons to kill adamantine golems, could get far more unpleasant than I consider reasonable if the summoner doesn't get along with archons and the creatures he summoned betray him to their superiors.
You can use Summon Monster 2 to summon a Lemure and tell it you wish to sell it your soul...however you should consult you GM specifically to see what kind of gifts you could get in return.How would an unintelligent Lemure understand you, much less make a trade with you?
I'm not going to lie, I just went through the summon monster list looking for the lowest level devil available.
You have a valid point.
Great, looks promising!
Regarding the Sending spell: Do i need to know the "true name" of the specific devil or is it enough to know (whether through research or knowledge rolls) that there is for example such specific outsider as a contract devil and then call him without having seen him before?
And is there any way some animal shops in the world of Pathfinder sell Imps just like they sell Pseudodragons and other exotic stuff?
There is always the devil-bound template from Bestiary 4...but well the devil will send you on a quest and if you don't complete it, your soul is still sold to him. If you complete it, you get some neat benefits. Either way, once you sold your soul, you have to be aware that if you die in game, you will never see this character ever again.
Not really, if its a contract devil, it specifically states in its entry that contracts with them are always invalidated if you destroy the only 2 copies of the contract. he also tends to keep them on his person. so getting them is not that impossible if your high level enough.
You can also take levels in the diabolist class, it gives limited respite against this problem specifically.
frankly though, if you really want to sell your soul, just call out to the great As, he'll hear.
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Ahem, generally you just have to push the word along. We have plenty of contacts and are fully capable of reaching you at anytime. If you want to more... aggressively pursue a deal though I would not listen to Ipslore the red's advice considering he gave you the rituals for becoming a demon...
Not exactly a trustworthy fellow.
Now the 'normal' means for a mortal to go about trying to negotiate a deal with us is to use a magic circle spell directed inward with a dimensional anchor spell and a silver diagram (I recommend seven points instead of the traditional 5 or 6). You'll follow this with a planar binding spell. At that point the bargaining begins.
However that is not the only way to reach us. Summoning a devil and inform him that you wish to negotiate with a devil for services. A summoned devil should communicate your desires to the appropriate branch and you should be contacted in 3 to 5 business days (hell business days to clarify and this is just a general time estimate, sometimes these things take more or less time due to circumstances beyond your control). Please note if you are unable to facilitate the meeting time and place we can do so but this will usually involve a nominal fee being attached to your bill for the service.
Also please remember that souls are not the only thing we trade in and you can just as easily bargain for services and equipment without losing your soul in the process.
You don't have to be of the proper Caster Level to cast from a scroll. If you can get your hands on the proper scrolls, you can do this at any level. The Caster Level check is not too difficult.
Great, looks promising!
Regarding the Sending spell: Do i need to know the "true name" of the specific devil or is it enough to know (whether through research or knowledge rolls) that there is for example such specific outsider as a contract devil and then call him without having seen him before?
And is there any way some animal shops in the world of Pathfinder sell Imps just like they sell Pseudodragons and other exotic stuff?
The best means is to send the Sending spell to:
Contact a Contract
That is the branch that helps mortals arrange contact with one of our number.
And don't let the imps give you any lip.
I think the true name just gives you a bonus on negotiations, so it isn't necessary. Check out the Book of the Damned: Lords of Hell.
You might be able to find an imp in Korvosa, the place is overrun with them.
As a GM, I'd be more than willing to let you a. find a devil's name. b. Find a scroll to summon and bind that devil. c. make the trade, seems fair. d. spend my every waking moment plotting to reap that soul asap.
Summoning a devil and inform him that you wish to negotiate with a devil for services...
So, just to be sure: The Spell Summon Monster (Imp) doesn't count that way I guess to inform a devil. But finding a living imp of talking to a wizard' familiar imp and telling him to call one of his fellow devils is ok? And because they really want my soul, they will show up.
The best means is to send the Sending spell to: Contact a Contract
But I don't have to know his name or know him personally? Simply shouting/sending the words "Contract Devil, please show up, I want to trade my soul!" would work?
If that really is ok, then I will definitely buy a scroll of sending soon! Maybe for a contract devil to gain some wishes... or some random devil who should possess my body (devil-possessed template) in exchange for my eternal soul and a quest!
frankly though, if you really want to sell your soul, just call out to the great As, he'll hear.
If I do need to know the name of the contract devil for the sending spell, the I could send Asmodeus a message... except if he has another true name... is he also that eager to get my soul like the other minor devils or will he send me a contract devil to do his work instead?
sry, i don't want to push, but our next gaming session will be soon and I need some details about the sending spell...
Do I need to know the exact name (for example Peter, the Devil) for the sending spell or is it enough to send a message to any contract devil if my character knows of their existance?
As a GM, I'd be more than willing to let you a. find a devil's name. b. Find a scroll to summon and bind that devil. c. make the trade, seems fair. d. spend my every waking moment plotting to reap that soul asap.
MOST contracts have a protection clause against the signing devil and his allies.
Doesn't mean he could plot with an enemy, though. :D
Hi,
I just wanted to know if there is an easy way to summon a devil or demon for closing a contract?
For example to sell my character's soul in exchange for gaining a half-fiend template or something like that.
This is purely in ask-your-GM territory, but my understanding is that the evil outsiders love to make this kind of deal, and so there's almost certainly several ways to make this kind of deal that requires no spell-casting or anything else. A suitable Knowledge (religion) or even Knowledge (arcana) would be able to tell you the ritual.
After all, devils exist largely to collect the souls of mortals. If possible, they'd be effin' advertising for clients. ("Got problems? Call (666) 666-HELL -- operators are standing by. For a low, low price of your immortal soul, our operatives will intercede for you, getting you results up to anything you desire. [Results not typical.] That's (666) 666-HELL, again, that's (666) 666-HELL.")
They'd specifically not require high-level spells, or even spells at all. After all, commoners have souls, as do experts, and even fighters, rangers, and paladins. Who's going to turn down a chance to corrupt a high-level paladin just because he can't cast planar ally?
As a GM, I'd be more than willing to let you a. find a devil's name. b. Find a scroll to summon and bind that devil. c. make the trade, seems fair. d. spend my every waking moment plotting to reap that soul asap.
MOST contracts have a protection clause against the signing devil and his allies.
Doesn't mean he could plot with an enemy, though. :D
directly causing the death of the contracted person is prohibited. although, they use the term "directly" quite loosely.
The way your soul is gained/stored, and the true name of the outsider in question will also be on there. So if your planning on re-summoning him, that should be easy enough. And the method of storing is usefull for any contingency plans you might set up in cause you can't weasel your way out of it the normal way.
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first off the soul trade is vastly overstated. yes we do contract for souls, but honestly that accounts for less than 15 percent of my total transactions.
quit frankly souls are common and we are getting a certain percentage anyways, so why give away wishes and the like for one if it is not unique. usually such actions are charity cases from hell. lets face it, most peoples lives suck and in all likeihood their afterlife is going to suck too. so we give them the chance to break the mold.
often times what is wanted by the mortal is minor enough that a soul would be an unfair request on our behalf, as cheap as that is, so we find other bargains for them.
also there is no reason to hasten your death if you do make a contract in good faith with us. after all if you go on to be a fine upstanding citizen from there it just further legitimizes our bargains.
As a GM, I'd be more than willing to let you a. find a devil's name. b. Find a scroll to summon and bind that devil. c. make the trade, seems fair. d. spend my every waking moment plotting to reap that soul asap.
MOST contracts have a protection clause against the signing devil and his allies.
Doesn't mean he could plot with an enemy, though. :D
directly causing the death of the contracted person is prohibited. although, they use the term "directly" quite loosely.
The way your soul is gained/stored, and the true name of the outsider in question will also be on there. So if your planning on re-summoning him, that should be easy enough. And the method of storing is usefull for any contingency plans you might set up in cause you can't weasel your way out of it the normal way.
I think saying "most contracts have a protection clause" might be an overstatement, though I'm not certain. Anyone who is reasonably smart might insist on one. Though I can imagine hell being happy to have plenty of dumb individuals sell their souls only to be killed moments after recieveing whatever the agreed upon item was. Seems like a very LE thing to do. However, it may be a common boiler plate contract that includes it, I really have no evidence one way or another.
I do however, adamantly believe that the outsiders true name will not be present on the document (giving out your true name would give the mortal way too much power over you) and I doubt that unless the bargainer were very skilled in diplomacy he probably wouldn't convince the devil to explain how they were going to take your soul. Sure a smart person with lots of knowledge may be able to get these sorts of things added to a contract, but he's going to have to offer more to hell and devil in return.
At the end of the day, the whole thing rests firmly in the hands of GM fiat.
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finally orfamay is correct that we have contracts of understanding with most gms, so if you ask him he will likely be able to help facilitate contact.
I do however, adamantly believe that the outsiders true name will not be present on the document (giving out your true name would give the mortal way too much power over you) and I doubt that unless the bargainer were very skilled in diplomacy he probably wouldn't convince the devil to explain how they were going to take your soul. Sure a smart person with lots of knowledge may be able to get these sorts of things added to a contract, but he's going to have to offer more to hell and devil in return.
the sourcebooks state that contracts for a soul (not services) are indeed singed with the true name of the outsider in question, its for this reason that higher devils usually send minions to make the deal on their behalf. but it is a requirement.
Other clauses are not mandatory, yet devils do not take them out either, for one, they don't need to cheat mortals, they've singed a contract for their souls, that's all your going to get out of them really. and secondly, devils take perverse pride in knowing that mortals know full well what the contract entails, and still make misguided deals. thirdly, having these clauses makes mortals more inclined to sign. lastly, it helps in maintaining relations with the deities of good.
I do however, adamantly believe that the outsiders true name will not be present on the document (giving out your true name would give the mortal way too much power over you) and I doubt that unless the bargainer were very skilled in diplomacy he probably wouldn't convince the devil to explain how they were going to take your soul. Sure a smart person with lots of knowledge may be able to get these sorts of things added to a contract, but he's going to have to offer more to hell and devil in return.the sourcebooks state that contracts for a soul (not services) are indeed singed with the true name of the outsider in question, its for this reason that higher devils usually send minions to make the deal on their behalf. but it is a requirement.
Other clauses are not mandatory, yet devils do not take them out either, for one, they don't need to cheat mortals, they've singed a contract for their souls, that's all your going to get out of them really. and secondly, devils take perverse pride in knowing that mortals know full well what the contract entails, and still make misguided deals. thirdly, having these clauses makes mortals more inclined to sign. lastly, it helps in maintaining relations with the deities of good.
Source? I don't recall seeing that in any Paizo book, but it might be a splat book I haven't read.
quite frankly souls are common and we are getting a certain percentage anyways, so why give away wishes and the like for one if it is not unique.
mostly because its in the rule/sourcebooks, the minimum for signing away your soul is an effect at least as powerful as a wish spell. don't like it that way, go and bother some other setting, in pathfinder, you'll at least get a wish out of it, and more often than not more then that (although devil are even more unscrupulous then most when it comes to cruel interpretations of wishes).
Source? I don't recall seeing that in any Paizo book, but it might be a splat book I haven't read.
book of the dammed, and several entries in bestiaries for devils inclined to make such deals, most recent bestiary 4
book of the dammed, and several entries in bestiaries for devils inclined to make such deals, most recent bestiary 4Source? I don't recall seeing that in any Paizo book, but it might be a splat book I haven't read.
I haven't seen the Book of the Damned and I guess I haven't looked at those specific entries. I guess I need to look this up for myself.
Totally seems like a bad idea unless the universe absolutely demands that the devil write his true name on the contract to recieve the soul for some reason. And then if I were the devil in quesiton I would add some sort of legalese proscription against revealing or sharing my true name that would result in the forfeiture of whatever the recieved good/service was and the the immeadiate collection of the mortal's soul.
The devil really just wants the contract to be completed as written without any complications. They get your soul, thats already part of the deal. You're supposed to get X until you die and are eternally damned. They just want to make sure you don't screw them over in between.
Contracts are supa complex on purpose. Look up a picture of a contract devil. Those things are multiple feet long. The only clearly spelled out things is what you get what you get and you pay with your soul. Protection clauses are super common.
Looking at the contract devil entry on the bestiary it mentions the mortal signing their true name but not the devil. Hmmm....
I really want to see a source that indicates the devils true name is revealed.
In any event protection clauses seem reasonable. It provides reassurance to the mortal despite not actually doing anything. It doesn't matter to hell if you die now or in 60 years. They get your soul either way and they don't have to worry about their own death from old age. Plus it allows them to include protections for themselves if they do indeed have to sign their true name or other things.
In any event protection clauses seem reasonable. It provides reassurance to the mortal despite not actually doing anything. It doesn't matter to hell if you die now or in 60 years. They get your soul either way and they don't have to worry about their own death from old age. Plus it allows them to include protections for themselves if they do indeed have to sign their true name or other things.
That's a key point. Hell isn't stupid -- well, the top echelons aren't, anyway -- and the best way to get more customers is a satisfied customer base.
"Grandfather, I have to ask your advice. [long tale of woe follows.] What would you do?"
"Well, my boy, what I did do was go down to the seashore at the depths of midnight and chant Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Ashmodai R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn until dread Asmodeus appeared to grant me a wish. Try it!"
The way to beat a devil contract is to become undead.
The way to beat a devil contract is to become undead.
interesting thing is in most cases you have to be dead before you can be undead, and again in most cases being undead does not actually require a soul.
And even if you did become undead, wouldn't it function as if you had been restored via miracle or wish? And then the devil instantly knows your soul has left hell. And is granted abilities to locate you more quickly and easily.
The point of undeath is the soul never moves on. For Pathfinder, it's part of why Pharasma hates it. She can't do her job.
The point of undeath is the soul never moves on. For Pathfinder, it's part of why Pharasma hates it. She can't do her job.
Are you sure? Do you have a source to verify that?
Do you have one for yours?
I have a source for ICB's suggestion:
interesting thing is in most cases you have to be dead before you can be undead,
Create Spawn (Su) Any humanoid creature that is slain by a wight becomes a wight itself in only 1d4 rounds.
If you are slain, you are dead. Q.e.d.
I'm sure that's a good enough legalese for a devil to jump on.
Infernal Contract (Su) As a full-round action, a contract devil can produce an infernal contract for a single living mortal creature. This contract can grant a wide range of abilities and effects, as detailed on the following page. To receive any of these bonuses, however, the mortal must sign its true name to the document of its own free will. Upon doing so, that mortal's soul is sworn to the contract devil, condemning the soul to an eternity of servitude in Hell rather than whatever fate would naturally befall it upon the mortal's death. Breaking a contract with a contract devil is difficult and dangerous (see the next page); as long as the infernal contract remains in effect, the victim cannot be restored to life after death save by a miracle or a wish. If a mortal is restored to life in this way, the contract devil immediately senses the development—it not only knows which soul has been restored to life, but also gains the benefits of a discern location spell targeted on the character or creature that restored the damned soul to life.
Infernal Investment (Su) As a subclause of all infernal contracts, a contract devil can use greater scrying at will upon any creature it has a contract with. The target creature always fails its save against the devil's scrying attempt—this ability otherwise functions at caster level 20th.
When one of the souls damned by a contract devil is restored to life (typically via powerful magic like a wish or miracle), the phistophilus immediately notices the transgression. Usually, the contract devil recruits the aid of more powerful allies to track down and punish such transgressors and to collect the escaped soul as quickly as possible.
Now, thats just the RAW. Which doesn't cover "unlife". But I feel like the RAI doesn't mean you can skirt the rules by becoming undead. And even if you can become undead (which seems unlikely since only Wish or Miracle can reclaim the soul) that the devil would instantly know and would track down and punish you.
Undeath is by definition not alive and simultaneously not dead. Liches, for instance, stuff their soul in a gem. The rules support two kinds of undead: magical and spiritual. Vampires, liches, etc. are the latter. Skeletons and zombies are the former.
For the former, yes, your soul goes to the boneyard. For the latter, your soul stays in a vessel of some form by unnatural means.
Very few undead require a soul -- that doesn't mean a soul isn't injured or split in their creation. Ghosts and liches specifically call out the tie to the soul, whereas skeletons could almost be more rightly recognized as constructs -- with the main exception being the means of animation.
How to put it to a mortal... It's kind of like being summoned -- you are there, but you aren't there, but you are still aware of what's going on, but it isn't really you, but it still feels real.
My understanding is that for the souls that are involved (but not fully used or pulled back) it is kind of like that -- you know you are here, but you know part of you isn't.
Maybe it's like having your arm cut off, but still feeling the arm and knowing it's somewhere and still feeling.
Anyways the major thing is for the most part it isn't really the soul that holds the undead together in most cases it at most a part or inversion or a mirror image of a soul that is used.
That's why deamons and demons like undead so much -- because it's getting their cake and eating it too (literally) -- they get the thing wandering around and doing their bidding and they still get some tasty soul to snack on.
Source? I don't recall seeing that in any Paizo book, but it might be a splat book I haven't read.I do however, adamantly believe that the outsiders true name will not be present on the document (giving out your true name would give the mortal way too much power over you) and I doubt that unless the bargainer were very skilled in diplomacy he probably wouldn't convince the devil to explain how they were going to take your soul. Sure a smart person with lots of knowledge may be able to get these sorts of things added to a contract, but he's going to have to offer more to hell and devil in return.the sourcebooks state that contracts for a soul (not services) are indeed singed with the true name of the outsider in question, its for this reason that higher devils usually send minions to make the deal on their behalf. but it is a requirement.
Other clauses are not mandatory, yet devils do not take them out either, for one, they don't need to cheat mortals, they've singed a contract for their souls, that's all your going to get out of them really. and secondly, devils take perverse pride in knowing that mortals know full well what the contract entails, and still make misguided deals. thirdly, having these clauses makes mortals more inclined to sign. lastly, it helps in maintaining relations with the deities of good.
Reading through the relevant parts of the Book of the Damned, in the section covering True Names and Sigils, I have found reference to the contracting devil necessarily including their sigil in the contract but not their True Name.
Inscribing the sigil in your binding circle makes it more difficult to escape; while knowing the True Name makes it harder for the fiend to resist your summoning.
I would probably allow undeath to skirt the contract. To me it is flavorful and fun.
I don't know if this helps but the example contract in the Book of the Damned contains this clause:
Could it not be argued that undeath is a cessation of mortal continuation (and perhaps any form of immortality).
sry, i don't want to push, but our next gaming session will be soon and I need some details about the sending spell...
Do I need to know the exact name (for example Peter, the Devil) for the sending spell or is it enough to send a message to any contract devil if my character knows of their existance?
This is all entirely up to your DM; for the Book of the Damned sayeth:
In my campaign one of the Player Characters wished to sell his soul and I encouraged him to do so because "it would be fun."
He worked with the party mage to cast the requisite spells from scrolls but never succeeded. I ruled that they could find an imp, request contact with a greater devil, then kill the imp to send it back into Hell to deliver the request; but they party got side tracked and never followed through. Finally, one morning a phistophilus disguised as a man just appeared on the Player Character's doorstep to offer him infernal services.
It has been a lot of fun, but it is all up to your DM.
If I were you I would work with your DM and suggest they take a look at the Devilbound template in Bestiary 4. You may want buy a copy of the Book of the Damned and let your DM look at that.
quite frankly souls are common and we are getting a certain percentage anyways, so why give away wishes and the like for one if it is not unique.mostly because its in the rule/sourcebooks, the minimum for signing away your soul is an effect at least as powerful as a wish spell. don't like it that way, go and bother some other setting, in pathfinder, you'll at least get a wish out of it, and more often than not more then that (although devil are even more unscrupulous then most when it comes to cruel interpretations of wishes).
Wishes are not the minimum you will get out of the contract. Sometimes it is simply the lifetime services of a fiendish slave that are bargained for. Imps may simply trade you nothing but "infernal or arcane knowledge" for a secret of your own--no soul or wish required.
great, so far there are many possibilities for my soon-to-be soulless character!
Does anyone know if I still have control over my character after applying the devilbound template?