Hey there everybody so here is the deal. My DM got tired of our game and decided to start up a new one, but for this it's 10 point buy which I have never done before. Along with that lethal damage is pretty much a horrible idea because the law in this new setting will be all over you if you kill somebody. This is what brings me here I have no idea what class to play or how to set up the 10 point buy. Few other things it is only base and core classes and only core races. Any and all help would be awesome thank you all in advance.
Bard all ten points in cha then you have a cha monkey to talk way out of stuff or fight (if needed)
druid
can be relatively SAD, plenty of spells, animal companion will be a serious factor in combat (cause it won't be any weaker than usual, unlike all the PCs), and wildshape will be an invaluable scouting/disguising/combat tool
All abilities 12 except charisma 10 before racial adjustments. Play any non-spell caster, make a good monk.
Or for a spellcaster, 14 in your casting stat, 14 in a physical stat, and 10 in everything else.
I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how well this works out (assuming the GM has organised the challenges against you appropriately).
I would play monk, but in the game my DM is stopping I am already playing a monk so I would like to try something else.
I do think a druid or a ranger would be fun to play, but I'm not sure how to set up the stats and how to make their damage non-lethal.
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I'd say Wizard, you have tons of spells that don't kill (let your party worry about that), you can tank your Str/Cha scores for a net gain of 8 points, throw 10 points in Int to get a 16 (bumped to an 18 via human/elf), 5 points into dex to get it up to a 14 (or 16 if elf), throw two points in con for a 12 (10 if elf), and the last point in wis for the hell of it.
You're honestly as functioning a wizard as you'd be at a higher point buy, you have stuff like sleep/color spray for low level captures, and you're still a wizard, which makes you pretty darn amazing.
Also, PLEASE don't play a monk in a low point buy, they're MAD enough in a regular point buy, I can't imagine how terrible they'd be with only 10 points.
Although thinking about it I have not played a spell caster yet since I have started playing Pathfinder. I would love to hear some cool ideas about those as well. Again thanks for all the help everybody.
Yeash... That's going to be rough, did someone bring a Synthesis summoner into his last game or something? I'll be honest, this sounds like a DM who is getting burned out and needs a break (Been there myself).
It sounds like this game is going to be based around non-standard adventuring (maybe city based)?
Ok, 10 point buy means you are going to have to make a lot of hard choices. I'm going to suggest something that I'm going to need a flame-proof suit for...
Play A Rogue. A Halfling Rogue.
Yea, I said it.
Thug Rogue Archtype, with the Enforcer Feat. Build towards picking up the knockout artist feat as well.
For Stats, with only 10 point, I would go with: 12 Str (-2 Race), Dex 15 (+2 Race), Con 10, Int 8, Wis 10, Chr 13 (+2 Race)... That leaves you with : 10, 17, 10, 8, 10, 15.
The other option is to just play an Elf, put all you're points into INT and concentrate on Save or Sucks...
Yeash... That's going to be rough, did someone bring a Synthesis summoner into his last game or something? I'll be honest, this sounds like a DM who is getting burned out and needs a break (Been there myself).
It sounds like this game is going to be based around non-standard adventuring (maybe city based)?
Ok, 10 point buy means you are going to have to make a lot of hard choices. I'm going to suggest something that I'm going to need a flame-proof suit for...
Play A Rogue. A Halfling Rogue.
Yea, I said it.
Thug Rogue Archtype, with the Enforcer Feat. Build towards picking up the knockout artist feat as well.
For Stats, with only 10 point, I would go with: 12 Str (-2 Race), Dex 15 (+2 Race), Con 10, Int 8, Wis 10, Chr 13 (+2 Race)... That leaves you with : 10, 17, 10, 8, 10, 15.
The other option is to just play an Elf, put all you're points into INT and concentrate on Save or Sucks...
There's good points here.
Maybe you should offer to run a game instead. I would go with something published, even if it is just a one shot PFS scenario or a single adventure module, but that's just me thinking about a one-off.
Halfling rogues are great. Never underestimate the halfling.
That comment about synthesist summoners is interesting -- a low point buy game is exactly the sort that I would be tempted to bring such a character into.
for a druid... start with probably 14 Wis and up it to 16 from human, 1/2breed, of dwarf- put the other points in con/dex. focus on control/debuff spells (to avoid lethal damage): entangle is a good control spell (as long as you're somewhere you can cast it), ray of sickening is a good debuff, frost bite deals non-lethal damage and a debuff. you can have your animal companion live outside of the city and just be available for if/when you go out places where you can fight/kill stuff. in the city if you need to defend yourself with force (or try to kill someone without getting punished) you can use summons... you can present yourself as some kind of herbalist/healer (hope that people assume you're an alchemist or even adept) and then if 'wild animals' maul someone in or near the city there shouldn't be an reason for people to assume it was you...
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You could make a ninja and grab the various sap master feats. Dual wield yourself some light maces and you will see impressive damage being dealt. The down side is that you wouldn't be able to have both a high dex and a high cha, so your ki pool would be quite limited. But then, being able to give yourself invisibility (and greater invis at higher levels) is definitely a boon to any sneak attacker.
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Ah, 10 point buy. AKA "your DM hates your guts."
Anything with a companion will be powerful. Summoner, Druid, etc. This also extends to anyone that regularly uses Summon Monster. OTOH, good luck teaching your ACs and summons to deal nonlethal damage.
Heavy Armor will be very good, since you don't have the points for high-Dex or high-Con.
Things that rely on high save DCs (blasters & debuffers) will probably be less powerful, since your casting stat will be relatively low compared to the saves of your foes.
If I were you... I'd probably try something like this:
Baldric the Gruff, Dwarven Ranger
Two-Handed Weapon archetype
Str 15 (bump every 4 levels)
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 7
1 Heavy Armor Prof.
2 Power Attack
3 Steel Soul
5 Boon Companion
6 Furious Focus
...
Skills: Survival, Know: Nature, Perception, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Climb/Swim/other
Would be a pretty darn solid all-around choice. Merciful enchant for weapons is your friend. (Merciful metamagic is good too for casters.)
I don't think you need to overstress about dealing nonlethal damage. You can play any character you otherwise would and pull your punches or call off your animal companion when the enemies look weak. Just take the penalty for dealing nonlethal damage, or if you really have to, look into options like Merciful Spell or the ornately-named Golden Legion's Stayed Blade.
As far as your character goes, your best bet is going to be classes that rely on a single ability score. Witch, Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, Oracle or Druid, maybe even Bard, and focus on spellcasting. Put most points into your spellcasting ability score, and maybe some in Constitution. As some people have noted, getting an animal companion would be a good choice, since their power level doesn't change under point buy.
Classes that need multiple ability scores, like Monks or Paladins, are difficult to satisfy. Melee combat in general is dangerous with 10 point buy, since being good at it requires a degree of Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, which is hard to afford.
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You might also consider the cavalier as an option. I believe there is an order (blue rose?) that allows you to deal nonlethal without penalty. In fact, it allows you to deal extra damage when choosing nonlethal. You could get a lot of mileage out of that. Plus the class uses heavy armor so dex is one less stat you need to worry about.
maybe this is the elephant in the room but this kind of setup is pretty much the reason stat dumping started.... if you find a SAD class that you like (like maybe the druid i suggested earlier) that's great, forget this post exists; but if you want to play a fighter it is possible.
you could pick 2 out of 3 to dump and not be quite so unbalanced... you could do sort of an old school 1/2 orc (or just an extra orcy one) by dumping Int and Cha, which leaves you with 18 points for physical stats (or maybe add a little Wis and play a ranger)
even just dumping one stat to 7 would let you go 16/12/12, which is workable (especially since it doesn't count racial bonuses), or 14/14/12/12 if you want to play something MAD (racial become every more important there though- a dwarf ranger could have 14 in str, dex, con, and wisdom, but an elf is gonna have trouble keeping their Con up and the bonus Int may not help with anything...)
its not for eveyone, and should definitely be incorporated in the character's backstory and roleplaying, but its there as an option if you want it....
I would go with one of two things.
1: Gnome master summoner, (Synthesist might be better, but I don't personally like it) 5points in con, 5 in cha. Get augment summoning as fast as possible, get the spell that lets you summon your eidolon in an emergency (not available right off the bat I beleive)
Get the spell(s?) that let you give your eidolon more evolution points to compensate for the reduced progression.
Get a crossbow, and some tanglefoot bags, and some alchemical splash weapons, as you will find you don't have a lot to do in combat until you have a few levels, and therefore a few more spells per day.
2: Human scorcerer, first feat you want to take is merciful spell if you are blasting right off the bat, if not it can wait till lvl 3 or 5 when you begin blasting (at lvl4 for scorching ray or 6 for fireball) don't go crossblodded as your will save can't take the hit.
You could put your strength to 8 and boost your con, or you could have a weaker cha and boost other stats. I would go 7 12 12 10 10 18, toughness at lvl 1. First 3 favored class bonuses go into hp, after that into extra spells. you want two points of metamagic adjust on fireball and empower at lvl 5 or 7. if you get spell focus spell specialization and varisian tattoo in there you can really do damage early without a special bloodline. eventually selective spell, quicken spell, and spell perfection elemental spell too if you can swing it. (easier if your bloodline gets some of these feats as bonus feats).
If the game seems low on money too take infernal healing as one of your lvl one spells eventually to help take care of healing costs. Eventually you won't need your lvl 1 spells much and it is good after combat healing.
Really, you don't do 10 point buy any different than a 20 point buy. As long as the GM is compensating appropriately, it should be nearly transparent.
Your sorc will probably have a bit lower of spell DC, but the opposition should also have lower save bonuses. Your attack rolls will be a bit lower but the AC's should also be a bit lower.
Uber MAD builds might be a bit more difficult. So you may not want to try a monk/barbarian/oracle/rage prophet.
Now that kinda goes out the window if the GM is going for an extreme challenge and is not going to adjust the encounters. If you are playing a game of normal joe average guys forced by circumstance to become heroes and fight off the mondo demon hordes. Well, then you definitely want a SAD build and take your chances.
Arcane full-casters are very SAD, so they would do well here.
For example a human wizard array: 8str 12dex 12con 18int 10wis 8cha
Or gnome sorcerer: 6str 10dex 14con 12int 8wis 18cha
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Now I think Dwarf Cleric could work to with: 14str 10dex 14con 16wis 6cha
Half-Orc Scarred Witchdoctor? Shove a bunch into Con, making you survivable and you have access to non-lethal hexes, not to mention spells. As for exact buy for it, not entirely sure.
I'd say Wizard, you have tons of spells that don't kill (let your party worry about that), you can tank your Str/Cha scores for a net gain of 8 points, throw 10 points in Int to get a 16 (bumped to an 18 via human/elf), 5 points into dex to get it up to a 14 (or 16 if elf), throw two points in con for a 12 (10 if elf), and the last point in wis for the hell of it.
You're honestly as functioning a wizard as you'd be at a higher point buy, you have stuff like sleep/color spray for low level captures, and you're still a wizard, which makes you pretty darn amazing.
Also, PLEASE don't play a monk in a low point buy, they're MAD enough in a regular point buy, I can't imagine how terrible they'd be with only 10 points.
If you want to mke the best character you can with the bad stats your GM is civilingeniør you. I suggest what this guy is suggesting as well. Spend all 10 points in int and be a wizard. Any character that need more than 2 stats is not going to like 10 point buy.
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I'd like to add that 10 point buy isn't that bad. You just have to be thrifty. I'm playing a Reach Cleric (rolled stats) that's effectively an 8 point buy, and it works great. This PC shines as brightly as the other PCs, who have much better stats. Note the lack of dump stats.
STR 14 (took the +2 racial) DEX 12 CON 12 INT 9 WIS 13 (increase at 4th) CHA 10
Traits: Fate's Favored, Second Chance
Feats: Combat Reflexes (1st), Spell Focus (Conjuration)(Human), Power Attack (3rd), Boon Companion (5th), Augment Summoning (7th), Sacred Summons (9th)
Domains: Growth and Feather
Wielding a simple long spear at low level this PC does respectable damage. Especially buffed into Clericzilla. Not enlarged at 5th level, with your buffs going (Magic Weapon, Divine Favor, Bull's Strength, and Weapon of Awe) your attacks (with Power Attack) will be +9 to hit for 1d8+14 damage. You also get up to 2 AoOs. If all three attacks hit you do about 55 HP damage in a round. Plus whatever your Animal Companion does. Not bad for an 8 point buy and a Cleric.
Full-level animal companion. If you need to hit harder, or are fighting vs large foes, use your Swift Action enlarge for +9 to hit and 2d6+15 damage, but only one AoO.
Since this sort of PC lacks the HP and AC to take a pounding, you will need to use smart tactics. Use a lot of Summon Monster spells, which work the same regardless of your point buy. Never end a round where a tough foe can full attack you. Move to maximize your AoOs, and mostly use your standard action to cast a spell or use a special ability. Use your AC as a screen, for flanking, and for extra damage.
This GM does not like to give AoOs. This is great, because it allows the PC to exert battlefield control and protect squishies in the back rank. AoOs are also great, when you get them. The main idea of Reach Tactics is to force your enemies to choose between bad options.
Your healing and condition removal options are great. You get 3 channels per day.
As posters already said above, any class that summons a lot will be comparably strong. A build that gives a lot of static combat bonuses, without regard to ability scores, can also work. In the above case Cleric combat buffs give +5 to hit and +8 damage.