The most beautiful girl in the world


Advice

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Silver Crusade

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So a couple of recent threads have me wanting to try out a character concept. I want to make a character that bases as many things as possible on their CHA score. So obviously they're going to start with an 18 in CHA and it has to be a race that can get a CHA bonus. It seems like either Lore or Nature oracle will be one of the classes taken, but what other classes would work well with this concept? Also, are there any feats or traits that will help with this?

I was considering the Alluring trait, but had a question about that. Does PFRPG just assume that every NPC is heterosexual? If so it seems like a female character will probably be best (hence the thread title) since you seem to interact with way more males on adventures.

Also, this will be for PFS, so it has to be PFS legal.


I am pretty sure that unless implicitly stated as part of the story/plot, all paizo npcs and such are considered bisexual.

Also, Paladin.

Silver Crusade

Yes, I certainly would have to take at least 2 levels of paladin for the saves and 6 uses of LoH. I don't want to do too much paladin because I already have a pure paladin for PFS that is one of my higher level PFS characters.


Fun, a trait that opens up arcane strike for everyone..


Thought about a Mysterious Stranger Gunslinger?

Silver Crusade

I had not thought about a Mysterious Stranger. I am considering that possibly I should leave out the level of oracle, though, because it makes little sense to swap out DEX for CHA and then take a class that needs DEX as a primary stat.

Hmmm, what about a level of lore oracle, 2 levels of Divine Hunter paladin, and then Mysterious Stranger gunslinger the rest of the way? Is a specific deity for the paladin going to work better? At least if I do this, the only 2 stats that really matter are DEX and CHA. I'm still not sure if the level of lore oracle is worth it, though. Does it really get me anything other than a few orisons and some 1st level spells?


Half-Elf w/ +2 Cha
2 levels of Paladin for Divine Grace, +Cha to Saves
1 level of Oracle of Nature for Nature's Whispers, Dex->Cha to AC and CMD
Scion of War feat, Dex->Cha to Initiative
Bard:
- Masterpiece: Pageant of the Peacock(Act, Dance), spend 1 performance/10 minutes to use Bluff(Cha) in place of any Int skill check or ability check.
- Versatile Performance, Perform(Dance) in place of Fly, Acrobatics.

Leadership: Cohort to do the fighting for you.

Unfortunately, there's no way I found to get Cha to attack or damage, skill points, or HP. But this lets you, directly or indirectly, get Cha to all saves, AC, CMD, Initiative, Acrobatics, Fly, and all Int skills and Int ability checks, letting you leave Int, Dex, and Wis at 10 and focus solely on Cha, Str, and Con. You'll be a very strong kind of sexy; nice a toned. Fewer skill points, but you just have to pump Bluff and that will fill in for all Int skills and Perform(Dance) which fills in for both Acrobatics and Fly. Your other Dex skills (Stealth, SoH, Ride) won't be all that hot, but leaving Dex at 10 rather than dumping it means at least they won't suffer a penalty. If you want, you can put Wisdom at 12-13 and take Wisdom in the Flesh for one of those Dex skills, but that'd probably be a bad use of talents. Lastly, since you're split between 3 (at least) different classes, pick up Multitalented Mastery (half-elf feat) that lets you count all your classes as favored classes.

Regarding Mysterious Stranger, I'd advise against it. You use Cha to determine Grit, but that's the only significant thing. You need to spend a grit to add Cha to damage only (not attack as well) for just 1 round. You still rely on Dex for attack and Dex is the biggest stat category to trade out. You'll get a lot more mileage just sticking with a decent melee weapon; maybe a Whip with the Whip Mastery chain or any other Reach weapon, just relying on Str for your melee damage. Presuming 20 point buy:

Half-Elf Athletic Beauty
Str: 14 (5)
Dex: 10 (0)
Con: 12 (2)
Int: 10 (0)
Wis: 10 (0)
Cha: 19* (13)


If you go a non-DEX route, consider the "Noble Scion of War" feat as well, to aid your initiative score. It switches the basis for your initiative score from DEX to CHA.


reasonably sure that CHA does not necessarily equate to physical attractiveness. Going purely for high cha is fine, but if you just want your character to be REALLY pretty, you can do that without any stats.

What you're actually making is a character who is very persuasive, charming, and convincing.


Bigdaddyjug wrote:

So a couple of recent threads have me wanting to try out a character concept. I want to make a character that bases as many things as possible on their CHA score. So obviously they're going to start with an 18 in CHA and it has to be a race that can get a CHA bonus. It seems like either Lore or Nature oracle will be one of the classes taken, but what other classes would work well with this concept? Also, are there any feats or traits that will help with this?

I was considering the Alluring trait, but had a question about that. Does PFRPG just assume that every NPC is heterosexual? If so it seems like a female character will probably be best (hence the thread title) since you seem to interact with way more males on adventures.

Also, this will be for PFS, so it has to be PFS legal.

There are a few ways to reflect ur beauty's influence that comes to my mind.

1) inquisitor class features and archetypes that use wisdom to further enhance social skills like intimidate, bluff, diplomacy. I believe it was infiltrator that added wisdom mod. Only a dip would be needed so its worth thinking about.

2) silver tongued human alternate racial trait makes u change their attitude towards u by 3 steps and +2 to two skills. This to me represents seduction at its finest.

3) an alternative to oracle is cleric based on channeling.

4) a major feat to take is scion noble regardless of ur class as it is for a charisma based character a better version of improved initiative.

More to come


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awp832 wrote:

reasonably sure that CHA does not necessarily equate to physical attractiveness. Going purely for high cha is fine, but if you just want your character to be REALLY pretty, you can do that without any stats.

What you're actually making is a character who is very persuasive, charming, and convincing.

I tend to think that it's a mixture of Con and Cha.

Once made a comment towards a 'beautiful' NPC, looking at her face and asking the GM if she had high charisma, then looking at her chest and asked if she had high constitution.


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Malwing wrote:
awp832 wrote:

reasonably sure that CHA does not necessarily equate to physical attractiveness. Going purely for high cha is fine, but if you just want your character to be REALLY pretty, you can do that without any stats.

What you're actually making is a character who is very persuasive, charming, and convincing.

I tend to think that it's a mixture of Con and Cha.

Once made a comment towards a 'beautiful' NPC, looking at her face and asking the GM if she had high charisma, then looking at her chest and asked if she had high constitution.

I have my bat ready, has anyone seen dead horse?

(we had a few threads get recently derailed by this very argument.)

Shadow Lodge

Muad'Dib wrote:
I have my bat ready, has anyone seen dead horse?

I think I saw some people beating it for you around the Rules Question forum. But it may have been General Discussion or Advice, I don't quite recall.


I hope I didn't open too big of a can of worms.


Malwing wrote:
I hope I didn't open too big of a can of worms.

You did... the worms are walking now.

Silver Crusade

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I love that build Kazaan, except I can't take Leadership for PFS. I'll have to check and make sure everything else is PFS-legal as well. I think this character is going to replace the GM-credti baby bard I was working on since they're gonna nerf Sound Striker archetype.

And as for the argument about CHA=appearance:

Paizo PRD wrote:
Charisma measures a character's personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance. It is the most important ability for paladins, sorcerers, and bards. It is also important for clerics, since it affects their ability to channel energy. For undead creatures, Charisma is a measure of their unnatural “lifeforce.” Every creature has a Charisma score. A character with a Charisma score of 0 is not able to exert himself in any way and is unconscious.

So based off of that, high CHA does, in fact, make you better looking. Now whether that means you are actually physically more desirable, or your enhanced...personality...makes people like you more is something I will leave up to debate.


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Lamontius wrote:

I am pretty sure that unless implicitly stated as part of the story/plot, all paizo npcs and such are considered bisexual.

Because that's totally realistic.

Wait, I meant "laughably PC".


Malwing wrote:


Once made a comment towards a 'beautiful' NPC, looking at her face and asking the GM if she had high charisma, then looking at her chest and asked if she had high constitution.

Meet my gnome sorceress, who specializes in rainbow themed spells:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/pc_portraits/PCP_rogues12_gh97.jpg

Her Charisma is over 20.

Also, from the neck down, she's scorchingly hot.


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Werebat wrote:
Lamontius wrote:

I am pretty sure that unless implicitly stated as part of the story/plot, all paizo npcs and such are considered bisexual.

Because that's totally realistic.

Wait, I meant "laughably PC".

dragons


There was a feat in 3.5 called "Force of Personality" (I forget which book) that allowed you to use your Cha bonus instead of your Wis bonus on Will saves.

Shadow Lodge

Werebat wrote:
Lamontius wrote:

I am pretty sure that unless implicitly stated as part of the story/plot, all paizo npcs and such are considered bisexual.

Because that's totally realistic.

Wait, I meant "laughably PC".

What's really queer about it is that D20PFSRD credits the trait's source as Dwarves of Golarion.

Liberty's Edge

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/social-traits/charming


I know the OP asked specifically for PFS, but if you or anyone else is considering the same idea outside of PFS, check out SGG's Godling class. It has options for using CHA for saving throws and for non-CHA skills, and it also has an ability called Legendary Beauty for characters who want to be so beautiful that they are truly legendary, like Helen of Troy or Aphrodite (along with game mechanics to use that legendary beauty to essentially force NPCs to do things you want them to).


Bigdaddyjug wrote:


Paizo PRD wrote:
Charisma measures a character's personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance.
So based off of that, high CHA does, in fact, make you better looking. Now whether that means you are actually physically more desirable, or your enhanced...personality...makes people like you more is something I will leave up to debate.

ok, yes, but your CHA score is based on all those things, compiled together. So it's perfectly reasonable to have a very attractive character with low CHA, or a very unattractive character with high CHA.

Higher CHA is *associated* with being better looking. It does not necessarily *make* you better looking.

For example, anyone in the Venerable age category has +1 cha over a young character. That does not make them more physically attractive than they were at a young-adult age.


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Lamontius wrote:


dragons

One race IMC has gender but no sexuality. I mean, not exactly. They're amphibians with a tri-stage life cycle (similar to newts), but in their third stage they return to the water, absorb their own brains, and become spongelike. This is the stage at which they reproduce, releasing sperm and egg cells into the water around them. They are driven to seek out beds of similarly rooted "elders" just before their transformation, which is pretty easy for them to do as in their second stage they spend a lot of time tending such beds -- they consider them to be sacred places, for obvious reasons.

There is a slight chance that a "second-stager" approaching elderhood will "go mad" and begin killing the elders of the bed he/she has chosen to "take root" in. This is fairly rare but acknowledged to happen from time to time, and as such these beings usually watch those approaching their third stage of life carefully, sometimes going so far as to keep them guarded in a ceremonial "changing house" they they are not allowed to leave until their transformation has progressed far enough that they can do little damage to the elders they root near.

Why does this happen? There is a selfish advantage in it, as eliminating rivals in the elder bed can help one be more likely to pass one's genes on to the next generation. The beings themselves may not understand this, but as they are genetically and socially inclined to cherish and protect their elders during their second stage of life, most of them find this occasional "descent into madness" on the part of their nigh-elder relations to be disturbing and abhorrent (the way most humans would consider the murder of children).

There is a REASON why this happens, even if it is a fantasy reason. These creatures being essentially genderless until descending into a mindless third life stage makes sense for them. Humans being bisexual by default doesn't make sense because humans are not bisexual by default. Maybe elves could be, or gnomes, or dragons, or whoever else -- but humans who are bisexual by default are not humans.

Making everyone bisexual because hey -- PC! -- is silly only in part because it is being done to be PC. If my Pathfinder PC (that's Player Character) is straight (or gay!), does that them make them a sexual deviant? Will they suffer prejudice and discrimination?

Assuming the OP of the information was correct, Paizo would have been better served stating that the cultures of Golarion are very open-minded and tend not to discriminate based on sexual orientation than by announcing that PF humans are bisexual by default.


I don't think that sexuality or sexual preference enters into it.

Charisma isn't sexiness, though it is related depending on who you ask*. But even if you hypothetically used Charisma as a crude measure of hawtness, heterosexual people still tend to act favorably to beautiful people of their own sex.

Presuming you'll be using Charisma for lots of things and not just constant seduction, your choice of sex will not matter at all.

* see every thread ever. we don't need to cover that here.


Werebat wrote:
Malwing wrote:


Once made a comment towards a 'beautiful' NPC, looking at her face and asking the GM if she had high charisma, then looking at her chest and asked if she had high constitution.

Meet my gnome sorceress, who specializes in rainbow themed spells:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/pc_portraits/PCP_rogues12_gh97.jpg

Her Charisma is over 20.

Also, from the neck down, she's scorchingly hot.

Well she is adorable in an impish kind of way.


*sigh*... lets not get too derailed here regarding Charisma, but I'll just state one thing... and then we abandon that line of thought. Charisma is a quantitative value... it measures the amount of something. It is not a qualitative value. So, when it says it governs your "appearance", that doesn't mean that high charisma means you're attractive nor that low charisma means you're ugly. To wit:

Night Hag (17 Cha)

Amiri (10 Cha)

Charisma isn't a measure of how "good" your appearance is but how "much" appearance you have. Now that that's out of the way, back to the character building people and pretend that this little tangent never happened.


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Werebat wrote:
Lamontius wrote:


dragons

One race IMC has gender but no sexuality. I mean, not exactly. They're amphibians with a tri-stage life cycle (similar to newts), but in their third stage they return to the water, absorb their own brains, and become spongelike. This is the stage at which they reproduce, releasing sperm and egg cells into the water around them. They are driven to seek out beds of similarly rooted "elders" just before their transformation, which is pretty easy for them to do as in their second stage they spend a lot of time tending such beds -- they consider them to be sacred places, for obvious reasons.

There is a slight chance that a "second-stager" approaching elderhood will "go mad" and begin killing the elders of the bed he/she has chosen to "take root" in. This is fairly rare but acknowledged to happen from time to time, and as such these beings usually watch those approaching their third stage of life carefully, sometimes going so far as to keep them guarded in a ceremonial "changing house" they they are not allowed to leave until their transformation has progressed far enough that they can do little damage to the elders they root near.

Why does this happen? There is a selfish advantage in it, as eliminating rivals in the elder bed can help one be more likely to pass one's genes on to the next generation. The beings themselves may not understand this, but as they are genetically and socially inclined to cherish and protect their elders during their second stage of life, most of them find this occasional "descent into madness" on the part of their nigh-elder relations to be disturbing and abhorrent (the way most humans would consider the murder of children).

There is a REASON why this happens, even if it is a fantasy reason. These creatures being essentially genderless until descending into a mindless third life stage makes sense for them. Humans being bisexual by default doesn't make sense because humans are not bisexual by default. Maybe elves could be, or...

I feel like I've had this conversation way too much; it's pretty clear the Devs' intentions with that statement was that, unless specified otherwise, they could be romanced/seduced without worrying about the sexual orientation of the specific NPC. It's not that every NPC is actually bisexual, but that their sexuality, unless otherwise specified, is left unlisted, and thus could be gay, straight or bisexual, depending on what makes sense for the situation. So, if a male PC tries to flirt with an NPC barmaid, she might be straight in that game, but if in another game, a female PC tries to flirt with that barmaid, she might be lesbian in that game.

Or, put hopefully better, it's not that the world is populated entirely by bisexuals, but that any given NPC's sexual orientation shouldn't interfere with romantic/sexual character interaction. To pretend the former is purposefully misunderstanding the intent of the devs.


Malwing wrote:


Well she is adorable in an impish kind of way.

Indeed she is. Indeed she is.

Grand Lodge

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Why can't it ever be "most beautiful man in the world"?

Scarab Sages

blackbloodtroll wrote:
Why can't it ever be "most beautiful man in the world"?

Zoolander?

Grand Lodge

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Cao Phen wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Why can't it ever be "most beautiful man in the world"?
Zoolander?

We can rename it the "Blue Steel" build.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Cao Phen wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Why can't it ever be "most beautiful man in the world"?
Zoolander?
We can rename it the "Blue Steel" build.

He needs to use a Bladed Scarf.

Silver Crusade

blackbloodtroll wrote:
Why can't it ever be "most beautiful man in the world"?

Because that's not the title of the Prince song?

Grand Lodge

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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Why can't it ever be "most beautiful man in the world"?
Because that's not the title of the Prince song?

If you really knew Prince, you would know better.


If we merged all instances of this thread, would it be longer than FAWTL?

Grand Lodge

Umbral Reaver wrote:
If we merged all instances of this thread, would it be longer than FAWTL?

FAWTL?


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Forums Are Way Too Long. A quick google search reveals that it is apparently popular in these boards' off-topic discussions forum.

Edit: Upon further investigation, I have discovered that the FAWTL threads are, whether by nature or by design, completely and utterly inane and full of blithering. It is not worth looking at them at all, even for curiosity's sake.


Lamontius wrote:
I am pretty sure that unless implicitly stated as part of the story/plot, all paizo npcs and such are considered bisexual.

What is this, the Sims?


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I think all NPCs are plotsexual. Orientation as the plot demands (like the barmaid flirting above).


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Why can't it ever be "most beautiful man in the world"?

Isn't it obvious? Because men are in inferior to Women.


Werebat wrote:
Lamontius wrote:

I am pretty sure that unless implicitly stated as part of the story/plot, all paizo npcs and such are considered bisexual.

Because that's totally realistic.

Wait, I meant "laughably PC".

Since its unlikely to bog down combat or anything, roll a d20 to see if the NPC is affected...

Member of the opposite sex: 1-18 they are affected, 19-20 they are not.

Member of the same sex: 1-2 they are affected, 4-18 they are not, 19-20 they consider you a rival and the bonus becomes a penalty.

Being of different races results in a generic +1 penalty to the roll.

EDIT: sorry - this was in reference to use of the Alluring trait.


KahnyaGnorc wrote:
I think all NPCs are plotsexual. Orientation as the plot demands (like the barmaid flirting above).

This. Absolutely.


awp832 wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:


Paizo PRD wrote:
Charisma measures a character's personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance.
So based off of that, high CHA does, in fact, make you better looking. Now whether that means you are actually physically more desirable, or your enhanced...personality...makes people like you more is something I will leave up to debate.

ok, yes, but your CHA score is based on all those things, compiled together. So it's perfectly reasonable to have a very attractive character with low CHA, or a very unattractive character with high CHA.

Higher CHA is *associated* with being better looking. It does not necessarily *make* you better looking.

For example, anyone in the Venerable age category has +1 cha over a young character. That does not make them more physically attractive than they were at a young-adult age.

Unless you're into that kinda thing.

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