I have been looking in books and googling for about an hour now and cannot find what I thought might have been a feat to allow you to get an AoO even on enemy 5 foot steps.
Is there such an ability? If so where? D&D 3.0/3.5 and Pathfinder material are all allowed.
Thank you in advance for any help you can provide.
combat feats:
take
step up
Benefit: Whenever an adjacent foe attempts to take a 5-foot step away from you, you may also make a 5-foot step as an immediate action so long as you end up adjacent to the foe that triggered this ability. If you take this step, you cannot take a 5-foot step during your next turn. If you take an action to move during your next turn, subtract 5 feet from your total movement.
and
following step
Benefit: When using the Step Up feat to follow an adjacent foe, you may move up to 10 feet. You may still take a 5-foot step during your next turn, and any movement you make using this feat does not subtract any distance from your movement during your next turn.
to be eligible for
step up and strike
Benefit: When using the Step Up or Following Step feats to follow an adjacent foe, you may also make a single melee attack against that foe at your highest base attack bonus. This attack counts as one of your attacks of opportunity for the round. Using this feat does not count toward the number of actions you can usually take each round.
Being a 9th level Brawler (Fighter archetype, screw the ACG names aaaaaaaaaa) gives you No Escape, which makes people provoke if they 5 ft. step. Also works if they try to Withdraw. =)
Thanks for the replies so far. I probably should have been more specific for the case I want this for.
I have a Fighter Character who is regularly 'Enlarge Personed' who uses a two handed reach weapon for a 20' reach and has Combat Reflexes.
Is there any way from 3.X or Pathfinder to turn an enemies 5 foot step, anywhere within that characters threatened area, into an Attack of Opportunity (besides the above listed suggestions)?
Thank you all again for your suggestions. :)
If you prevent your enemies from taking 5-foot steps, such as by creating difficult terrain or solid fog, they'll provoke AoO by moving 5 feet.
That is a fantastic tactic that I had not thought of. I will add that immediately to our groups tactics but still hoping to see if there is a feat or such that would allow me to do so as well.
Actually I don't think either of the above mentioned methods would work for you, if the intent is to get AoO for people stepping towards you.
Towards me, away from me or anything. I am just looking to see if there is any way to make an enemy 5 foot step when leaving an area I threaten into an attack of opportunity.
Okay. Just as long as you are aware that Step Up is a bad feat choice for your described character (I do realise that the character was described AFTER the feats was suggested).
Yeah that was my bad. The step up chain is not what I am looking for in this case.
It is great for dealing with a single target but I am looking for a way to lock down the entire area my character threatens if possible. My GM has some home rules and exotic weapons that when combined allow you to threaten ALL the squares in your reach. So Enlarged that would be a 20 foot radius.
While enemies will try to 5 foot step to me, and that means they have to sometimes take 3-4 rounds to close or take the AoO if they want to do it faster, I was looking to see if there was some way to make those 5 foot steps into AoO (where they are normally immune). Tripping them or using Stand Still in combination works great. It is those pesky 5 foot steps that are making it less than an ironclad tactic.
I had thought I read a feat somewhere which allowed exactly that but I cannot find it. I may just be me getting old. :)
I doubt it would be a Paizo feat the more I think of it. Probably something from 3.X. I am looking through all my old books again to see if I can find something.
All that said, if I cannot provoke an AoO on them as they come in from the 5 foot step itself, preventing them completely from being able to TAKE a 5 foot step may be just as good. It would force them to use a regular move action to close and that WOULD give an AoO and that does what I want.
Thanks again everyone.
Thanks for the replies so far. I probably should have been more specific for the case I want this for.
I have a Fighter Character who is regularly 'Enlarge Personed' who uses a two handed reach weapon for a 20' reach and has Combat Reflexes.
Is there any way from 3.X or Pathfinder to turn an enemies 5 foot step, anywhere within that characters threatened area, into an Attack of Opportunity (besides the above listed suggestions)?
Thank you all again for your suggestions. :)
If you prevent your enemies from taking 5-foot steps, such as by creating difficult terrain or solid fog, they'll provoke AoO by moving 5 feet.That is a fantastic tactic that I had not thought of. I will add that immediately to our groups tactics but still hoping to see if there is a feat or such that would allow me to do so as well.
Large and In Charge may be of use to you as you stated using 3.x material.
Large and In Charge
Type: General
Sources: Draconomicon Sword and Fist
You can prevent opponents from closing inside your reach.
Prerequisite: Natural reach of 10 feet or more, size large or larger.
Benefit: When you make a successful attack of opportunity against an opponent that is moving inside your threatened area, you can force the opponent back to the 5-foot space it was in before it provoked the attack of opportunity. After you hit with your attack of opportunity, make an opposed Strength check against your opponent. You gain a +4 bonus for each size category larger than your opponent you are, and an additional +1 bonus for every 5 points of damage you dealt with your attack of opportunity. If you win the opposed check, your opponent is pushed back 5 feet into the space it just left. An opponent you push cannot move any farther in this round.
Note that this doesn't actually give you the requested AoO but it sure helps keep creatures at a distance.
If they provoke taking a 5-foot step, they'll just run at you, charge even and just take the AoO. Of course, the GM has to do this without meta gaming, and they'll probably try 5-foot steps first, and then run at you.
The key is getting them to provoke, always. If they do not 5 foot step they will provoke getting to me so that is fine. I can use Stand Still or Trip on the AoO and make sure they stay in the square they are in, out of reach of me or friends.
I can already do that.
It was the 5 foot steps that were my one big hole. But I will talk to the groups Witch, Alchemist and Oracle to see if any of them have a way to make Difficult terrain around me far enough that my enemies cannot take 5 foot steps and so must always provoke while in my reach. Which onces they do they will stay where they are not hitting me or my allies, or they will need to switch to ranged weapons, again giving me more AoO's or they will need to cast spells (and there is a feat that allows AoO's on spellcasters even if they cast defensively so that is coverd).
If you drop their speed enough, they loose the ability to take a 5' step. That becomes a 5' full round action. Either slow them, or encumber them.
/cevah
If you drop their speed enough, they loose the ability to take a 5' step. That becomes a 5' full round action. Either slow them, or encumber them.
/cevah
Encumber them could be a great option as well. Thanks.
So it would seem more possible to remove their ability to 5 foot step than to be able to give a character the ability to AoO a 5 ft step.
Would Slowing or Entangling them work?
Pin Down does no damage but lets you cancel the movement of someone who 5ft steps or withdraws as an AoO.
Just a note: Stand Still does not work with a reach weapon. The target must be adjacent to you.
To add to what Epimetheus said: Pin Down is an 11th level fighter feat from Ultimate Combat. Here is the feat description:
Benefit: Whenever an opponent you threaten takes a 5-foot step or uses the withdraw action, that opponent provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If the attack hits, you deal no damage, but the targeted creature is prevented from making the move action that granted a 5-foot step or the withdraw action and does not move.
I also agree with the idea of creating difficult terrain. You can do this yourself with a potion of Entangle, a potion of Obscuring Mist (poor visibility causes double movement costs) +Goz Mask (to see through the mist), or any other low level spell that creates difficult terrain.
I suggest getting nimble step your self and them making your caster friends cast Stone Call or one to the other good difficult terain spells.
You can also take some barbarian levels and use Ground smasher and its greater version. There is also a barbarian rage power or too that is about getting AoOs where you normalt dont.
What's the lowest illusion spell that provides tactile feedback? Using that to create difficult terrain could be very useful, since it could be made party friendly :)
I believe Pin Down is the closest you're going to get to what you want. But, only expect it to work once per fight. As soon as the enemy has seen that their 5ft step (or withdraw action) provokes and you can attack them with an AoO that causes them to be unable to move you can expect them all to charge you. Depending on the amount of damage you deal they're probably just going to eat the AoO for moving in towards you because you've denied them their only other option. Besides, if the enemy is taking 4 rounds to 5ft step up to you the battle should be over by then. The rest of your party should be wrecking shop as they slowly close in.
Not valid for your current character, but 8th level barbarian.
Unexpected Strike (Ex): The barbarian can make an attack of opportunity against a foe that moves into any square threatened by the barbarian, regardless of whether or not that movement would normally provoke an attack of opportunity. This power can only be used once per rage. A barbarian must be at least 8th level before selecting this power.
What's the lowest illusion spell that provides tactile feedback? Using that to create difficult terrain could be very useful, since it could be made party friendly :)
How about illusion of Obscuring Mist?
/cevah
I have a Fighter Character who is regularly 'Enlarge Personed' who uses a two handed reach weapon for a 20' reach and has Combat Reflexes.
Remember that since you dont have a natural reach attack (other than unarmed when you are enlarged), that your two-handed reach weapon will have a dead zone where it cant make attacks at all if your opponents get inside your reach.
A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren't adjacent to him. Most reach weapons double the wielder's natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.
When enlarged your natural reach area is two squares all the way arround you, where you won't be able to make attacks with your weapon with reach.
If Book of the Nine Swords is allowed you can use Martial Stance to learn the Thicket of Blades stance. Used to be big in lockdown builds in 3.5. You need to burn a feat on Martial Study to learn a Martial Maneuver from the Devoted Spirit discipline first though.
Pin Down does no damage but lets you cancel the movement of someone who 5ft steps or withdraws as an AoO.
Pin down is is almost exactly what I was looking for. Thanks! I know that I won't do damage with it but it stops them from moving and locks them down in the battle field which means my friends are protected and can destroy them at will. So it forces them to choose between stand still for a round from my AoO or give me a legitimate attack for my AoO. Either way I win and the area is controlled.
To Gauss & Kildare: I know Stand Still only works with adjacent targets thank you. As I said in a previous post my GM has some home rules and exotic weapons that when combined allow you to threaten ALL the squares in your reach. So I can actually use Stand Still in her game with in this case. It still is only allowed against adjacent targets but the weapon I use allows me to threaten at close and at reach at the same time when I use power attack with it.
To Cevah: Obscuring Mist unfortunately means I cannot see past 5 feet, thus canceling my reach advantage and it also means my party cannot see the enemy to kill them.
I do like the idea of illusions of rough terrain. My warriot has full movement and boots of speed so rough terrain hurts but is hardly insumountable. The enemy will not always be able to say the same.
To Mr Sin: My character is actually a Fighter 2/Warblade 7, so yeah Bo9S is allowed but unfortunately I cannot use devoted Spirit school naturaly. But I have some feats coming up that I have not planned out using yet. Martial Study and Stance may be exactly what I need for a Devoted Spirit maneuver and Thicket.
To Pupsocket: Entangle would be a great idea as well. Thank you.
IF your GM is house ruling how Reach and threat works, then ask him/her what you should do. I would describe to your GM what you want to accomplish and them worth with them on creating a feat/option that does what you want.
IF your GM is house ruling how Reach and threat works, then ask him/her what you should do. I would describe to your GM what you want to accomplish and them worth with them on creating a feat/option that does what you want.
The only reach/threat change is a specific Exotic weapon in her game that can attack at natural reach (ie: normally) but also, when you power attack with it, has reach. Otherwise all reach and threat rules are as per pathfinder.
Plus I don't see any reason why asking the boards a question isn't allowed, no matter the game subject. They actually supplied me with more answers and options than I was looking for so it was definately worth it. In addition to getting two answers for my specific questions I got a lot of tactics that I had not considered to handle it in other ways.
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Just a note: Stand Still does not work with a reach weapon. The target must be adjacent to you.
To add to what Epimetheus said: Pin Down is an 11th level fighter feat from Ultimate Combat. Here is the feat description:
Benefit: Whenever an opponent you threaten takes a 5-foot step or uses the withdraw action, that opponent provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If the attack hits, you deal no damage, but the targeted creature is prevented from making the move action that granted a 5-foot step or the withdraw action and does not move.I also agree with the idea of creating difficult terrain. You can do this yourself with a potion of Entangle, a potion of Obscuring Mist (poor visibility causes double movement costs) +Goz Mask (to see through the mist), or any other low level spell that creates difficult terrain.
Potion of entangle or Obscuring mist? How do you produce them as
potions "can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute and targets one or more creatures or objects". Entangle or obscuring mist don't target a person or object.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Hmm, I didn't say that at all. Ask here too.
What I meant was that if any house rules are in play, have you talked to you GM, to see if they have a solution for you (perhaps special training to use your special weapon)? You have not mentioned that you have done that. Maybe add my suggestion to the list of ALL the other suggestions you have gotten from the boards.
If I came off as trying to shut you down, that was not my intent. Happy Gaming!
To Cevah: Obscuring Mist unfortunately means I cannot see past 5 feet, thus canceling my reach advantage and it also means my party cannot see the enemy to kill them.
I do like the idea of illusions of rough terrain. My warriot has full movement and boots of speed so rough terrain hurts but is hardly insumountable. The enemy will not always be able to say the same.
Reread what I said:
How about illusion of Obscuring Mist?If it was the real thing, you would not see well. But since your party knows it is an illusion, you can see through it and your opponents won't unless they also realize it is an illusion.
/cevah
Tanglefoot bags - cheap way to caused creatures to be entangled.
Also this might be of interest for you
Level 1 oracle dip
Stone Oracle
Shard Explosion (Su): As a swift action, you can cause jagged pieces of stone to explode outward from your body. These shards deal 1d6 points of piercing damage per two oracle levels (minimum 1d6) to all creatures within a 10-foot burst. A Reflex save halves this damage. In addition, the broken shards make the area difficult terrain until your next turn. You can use this ability once per day, plus one additional time per day at 5th level and every five levels thereafter.
Ring of Revelation could get you an additional daily use.
Hmm, I didn't say that at all. Ask here too.
What I meant was that if any house rules are in play, have you talked to you GM, to see if they have a solution for you (perhaps special training to use your special weapon)? You have not mentioned that you have done that. Maybe add my suggestion to the list of ALL the other suggestions you have gotten from the boards.
If I came off as trying to shut you down, that was not my intent. Happy Gaming!
My bad then. The game has been going on for about 8 years now and my gm and I talk about game theory a lot when we have the opportunity. But she lives about 3 hours away and is a working mom with two kids who's husband travels a lot for work so she is not always available and her free time is usually at a premium. I try to spare her too many questions aside from actual game time.
In this instance it was just easier to ask the masses who read the forums than bother her on a sunday night (which is usually their family night).
In any case I was looking for a RAW answer to the issue and I got them as I had hoped. Now I can take the options to her and she can rule on them without having to spend a lot of time looking stuff up on her own time.
To Hawktitan: Interesting option but for purely goofy/RP reasons this character cannot multiclass any further and will be doing only Warblade from here till the end. And he already does carry tanglefoot bags. :) Thanks for the idea though.
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I have a Fighter Character who is regularly 'Enlarge Personed' who uses a two handed reach weapon for a 20' reach and has Combat Reflexes.Remember that since you dont have a natural reach attack (other than unarmed when you are enlarged), that your two-handed reach weapon will have a dead zone where it cant make attacks at all if your opponents get inside your reach.
A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren't adjacent to him. Most reach weapons double the wielder's natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.When enlarged your natural reach area is two squares all the way arround you, where you won't be able to make attacks with your weapon with reach.
Natural reach apply to the weapons you wield.
For reach weapons it is exactly in the pierce of text you cited, for non reach weapons:Large, Huge, Gargantuan, and Colossal Creatures: Very large creatures take up more than 1 square.
Creatures that take up more than 1 square typically have a natural reach of 10 feet or more, meaning that they can reach targets even if they aren't in adjacent squares.
Unlike when someone uses a reach weapon, a creature with greater than normal natural reach (more than 5 feet) still threatens squares adjacent to it. A creature with greater than normal natural reach usually gets an attack of opportunity against you if you approach it, because you must enter and move within the range of its reach before you can attack it. This attack of opportunity is not provoked if you take a 5-foot step.
Large or larger creatures using reach weapons can strike up to double their natural reach but can't strike at their natural reach or less.
Nowhere it say that it applies only to natural weapons. All the weapon wielding creatures with a reach different from the standard 5' can make attacks to any target within their reach with their weapons.
Large or larger creatures using reach weapons can strike up to double their natural reach but can't strike at their natural reach or less....
I think this is what they meant Diego. This is the norm but in my case my GM has an exotic weapon that allows attacks at reach AND normal reach when power attacking with it.
Diego Rossi, Doh! That is why I shouldn't post offhand comments like that. :)
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Actually I don't think either of the above mentioned methods would work for you, if the intent is to get AoO for people stepping towards you.Towards me, away from me or anything. I am just looking to see if there is any way to make an enemy 5 foot step when leaving an area I threaten into an attack of opportunity.
Caltrops
I have been looking in books and googling for about an hour now and cannot find what I thought might have been a feat to allow you to get an AoO even on enemy 5 foot steps.
Is there such an ability? If so where? D&D 3.0/3.5 and Pathfinder material are all allowed.
Thank you in advance for any help you can provide.
hum... they only thing i've seen, i don't know if you're into it, it's the prestige class, golden legionnaire http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/golden-leg ionnaire
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Well, you have to be an 11th level Fighter for pin down... but maybe you're already close to that.
I suggest dipping Cleric. Hopefully as a fighter you have at least 12 wisdom. Some of the 1st level domain powers are helpful. Growth for swift action to enlarge, for example. But mainly for variant channeling Earth. You have to be non-Good to choose the channel to harm. But then with a standard action, you can turn all squares in a 30' radius into difficult terrain for 1 minute, so no 5' steps. Now as you probably don't have charisma, you may also need a feat to make this worth it, Extra Channel.
And you get +2 will save as a cleric, though you lose 1 BAB. But you can now use cleric spell trigger items, and memorize a bless/divine favor, and an extra Enlarge Person if you take Growth domain.
that is a GREAT suggestion... all of this for a single payment of cleric-ninety-nine! :)
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This doesn't directly answer your question...but addresses your desired role.
My fighter is now lvl 8...and I will confess, phalanx fighter is just what you want for what you want to do.
You wield a spiked shield and a polearm. When enlarged, you provoke all of that 20' range. You have a high AC, do a bit less damage. Take the trip line, power attack, carnugon smash. Avoid Vital strike line.
[snip]
My feat progression;
Combat Reflexes, Combat expertise, Improved trip, Fury's Fall (apply Dex to trips), Power attack, Cornugan Smash, greater Trip
[snip]
great build! fast drinker trait lets you drink that potion of enlarge as a move action at the beginning of the round too... what is the lead blades stuff you talked about? could that be duplicated with a potion too so as to avoid the level dip to oracle?
Someone suggested dropping the enemy's speed down so low they can't take a 5-foot step. That sounds like a job for Scorpion Style.
Since Scorpion Style requires Improved Unarmed Strike, you have the added advantage of always threatening adjacent squares when you use a reach weapon.