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I was reading the description of how the Synthesist Summoner works. I had heard that people had been abusing it with multi-classing monk to get the monks Wisdom Bonus to AC and dumping all other stats to max out Wisdom.
From what I read, this shouldn't work, they would lose the AC bonus AND flurry of Blows when in Eidolon form.
The Synthesist wears the eidolon like translucent, living armor.
When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses his AC bonus, as well as his fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.
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1. The top (synthesist) quote is flavor text, not rules mechanics; the bottom (monk) quote is rules text. The two don't really mix -- most particularly, if a synthesist's eidolon counted as armor, it would spell that out in the rules section -- but it only says this:
While fused, the synthesist loses the benefits of his armor.
I suppose one could argue that this text means the eidolon itself counts as armor, but that's not what the ability says, and later improvements giving the synthesist shield boneses (rather than armor bonuses) while fused underlines that the eidolon itself does not count as a suit of armor.
2. That said, relax. Multiclassing any caster class into monk ultimately weakens that caster, once you get up past the very low levels of play. By 9th level or so, the synthesist/monk is going to really, really wish he hadn't given up a caster level.
3. To mean "not have anymore," you want the word "lose" (like "bruise"), not "loose" (like "goose").
I'm not sure his point was that you would have an awesome spell caster and awesome monk.
The point was that he could dump str,con,dex, and get a really high wisdom and possibly descent int and cha.
Then with the synthesis, he gets his physical abilities
The build would rarely actually use spellcasting, atleast as I understand it.
Just because something gives you an armor bonus doesn't mean it's armor. Armor is that stuff you buy off the Equipment tables, or sometimes find as magic items. The eidolon is not armor.
And yet, a ring of Force Shield still counts as a Shield for this same purpose...
The ring of force shield takes away monk bonuses not because it gives a shield bonus, but because you have to physically wield the mini-wall-of-force that it creates. A shield spell, on the other hand, floats freely around the target, and thus doesn't impede monkish defenses. As the synthesist's eido-suit is magically projected around them, it would follow the latter example, and do nothing to stop monk AC usage.
Yeah, there's a disconnect between fluff and crunch here. Synthesist can and should work with Monk.
The bastard sword description is a description too, but it gets treated as a hard rule.
I FAQ'd, but I think the OP has a point (especially since wearing the Eidolon specifically cancels out armor... almost like the rules are treating it like armor, no?)
The point was that he could dump str,con,dex, and get a really high wisdom and possibly descent int and cha.
Then with the synthesis, he gets his physical abilities
The build would rarely actually use spellcasting, atleast as I understand it.
If you have to play a non-casting caster class in order to be decent at melee, then something is already broken a whole lot worse than the synthesist...
Reminds me of when, in 3.5, clerics could outfight the fighters and still be full casters. Yeah, clerics were overpowered, but mostly fighters just sucked.
I FAQ'd, but I think the OP has a point (especially since wearing the Eidolon specifically cancels out armor... almost like the rules are treating it like armor, no?)
'Treating it like armor' is not enough, though. The Monk's AC ability does not state that he loses it if he wears something that's treated "like armor"; it says he loses it if he wears armor.
If there were a magical trench coat in the game (oh wait, there is :) Kazaan mentioned it, the Gunman's Duster) that gave you an armor bonus to AC, a Monk could wear it without penalty, because it's not armor.
yup trying to alter mechanics based on descriptive fluff will only end with you frustrated
I FAQ'd, but I think the OP has a point (especially since wearing the Eidolon specifically cancels out armor... almost like the rules are treating it like armor, no?)'Treating it like armor' is not enough, though. The Monk's AC ability does not state that he loses it if he wears something that's treated "like armor"; it says he loses it if he wears armor.
If there were a magical trench coat in the game (oh wait, there is :) Kazaan mentioned it, the Gunman's Duster) that gave you an armor bonus to AC, a Monk could wear it without penalty, because it's not armor.
Actually, "treating it like armor" could very well apply to the monk's AC ability. If you have an ability that says "You deal 1d6 extra damage when you make a critical hit. Treat this extra damage as precision damage", and the target is immune to precision damage, I'd be hard-pressed to argue that "well it still works, because the damage isn't precision damage, it's just treated as precision damage".
When "treat as" and similar wordings work and not seem to vary a LOT (see SLA prerequisite FAQ, and Bastard Sword FAQ, and Flurry FAQ and SLA Metamagic FAQ and a bunch of others) so that argument doesn't really hold for much in my book.
However, in this particular case I agree that you can have a synth/monk because it's just descriptive text, but I don't think ""treat as X" does not mean it affects abilities that key of X!" is a strong argument.
The eidolon is counted as natural armor that is why it works with the monk.
The eidolon can count as either natural armor or normal armor and takes up the armor slot. I am not sure why anyone would ever chose for the eidolon to count as armor. The shield bonus mentioned earlier is around a level 6 class ability.
Sure you can.
Unarmed strike already counts as a large amount of weapons. 2 hands, 2 elbows, 2 knees, head, 2 feet. You still just get a set number of attacks when you flurry. It doesnt matter how many hands you add, flurry is still just the set number of attacks.
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Artanthos has the right of this. First of all, it sounds like you're a bit confused, Rikkan.
Multi-Weapon Fighting (MWF) only reduces the penalty on attacks and does nothing for the actual amount of attacks you have. There's the TWF feat (that only reduces the attack penalties) and the TWF attack mode. It's the better versions of the feat (improved, greater, etc) that gives you more attacks.
"But that sounds like that will still use MWF during the Flurry" you say! Not quite, because Flurry of Blows specifically calls out using a specific way to determine Attack Bonus for the flurry.
When doing so, he may make one additional attack, taking a –2 penalty on all of his attack rolls, as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. These attacks can be any combination of unarmed strikes and attacks with a monk special weapon (he does not need to use two weapons to utilize this ability).
As you can see, MWF doesn't factor in at all. Although MWF says "this replaces TWF", Flurry specifically says "as if using TWF". Not "using TWF" but "as if using TWF". The monk isn't actually using TWF. The ability is only using it as an example of how it works.
"Ok, but you can still whip people with the tentacles after/during your flurry as part of your attack" you exclaim! Sorry, but no.
A monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. A monk cannot use any weapon other than an unarmed strike or a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows. A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.
As you can see, it's a full attack action meaning you have no other action economy to add on more attack actions. It also specifically calls out not being able to use natural attacks (tentacles count as those) with your flurry or in addition to your flurry. Simply put, having tons of tentacles and MWF has absolutely no bearing on what your flurry can do.
Sure you can.
Edit: Aziraya Zhwan beat me to it.
As you can see, MWF doesn't factor in at all. Although MWF says "this replaces TWF", Flurry specifically says "as if using TWF". Not "using TWF" but "as if using TWF". The monk isn't actually using TWF. The ability is only using it as an example of how it works.
Flurry doesn't say that. Flurry says as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.
So you just use your regular flurry and then make an additional unarmed strike attack for each offhand you possess.
That isnt how unarmed strike works. You dont get to make 2 unarmed strikes normally just because you have 2 hands. Or 4 for that matter because you have 2hands and 2 feet. Its one attack, one weapon. Flurry is an explicate exception that allows it to function like two weapon fighting. Mutli weapon fighting does absolutely nothing for unarmed strike. Otherwise you could flurry with your feet (kicks) and then get additional unarmed strikes with for you 'offhand' as a normal humanoid. Which you cannot.
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Synthesist BAB is additive with BAB granted by other classes.
The synthesist uses the eidolon's Hit Dice for the effects of evolutions, not his summoner Hit Dice or his total Hit Dice.
When fused, use the eidolon's BAB instead of the summoner's class BAB, and add in BAB from other sources as normal. For example, a fighter 19/summoner 1 normally has a total BAB of +19 (+19 from fighter, +0 from summoner), and when fused with his eidolon this increases to +20 (+19 from fighter, +1 from the 1st-level eidolon).
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That's true when you aren't in your eidolon. But when you fuse, you use eidolon's BAB, which in the above example was +8.
Read the FAQ
The rules say you can make additional attacks with additional hands, the flurry rules don't contradicting those rules any way.
Read it again.
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Flurry of Blows gives a specific number of attacks, regardless of what is used to make the attack. This includes hands, feet, elbows, knees, head butts, and any natural weapons you have Feral Combat with.
No extra attacks are made from other sources, including natural attacks (explicitly stated). A monks unarmed strikes are considered natural attacks (explicitly stated).
A 10/10 monk synthesist can make either four attacks via flurry or possess up to five natural attacks (limit imposed by eidolon). If anything, monks treating unarmed strikes as natural attacks is going to cap the number of arms you are permitted.
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The second half of the sentence is modifying the first half. in addition to; the flurry is expressly permitted.A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.This clearly states you can't use natural weapons during a flurry.
Here is an faq on that matter: Ultimate CombatNormally a monk who has natural attacks cannot use those natural attacks as part of a flurry of blows
Does the Monk/Synthesist have Feral Combat Training? No? Then she can't use the tentacles to flurry. At all. Flurry normally forbids it (as said explicitly in the ability text) but the feat opens a specific case when you can. One again though, you need Feral Combat Training to even allow it to happen.
Does the Monk/Synthesist have Feral Combat Training? Yes? Then your tentacles can be used within the flurry but you can only attack the amount of times given specifically by Flurry of Blows. Any more than what is explicitly given by the flurry goes into the territory of "nor can he make natural attacks with his Flurry of Blows" because at that point those natural attacks aren't included in the Flurry anymore. They are considered additional (outside of the Flurry) which is strictly forbidden from use by the wording of Flurry.