How are you getting +77 damage on the bow..That is where I am lost.
That reminds me that I said I would try this with my wizard build..I guess I will try to find it tonight..
Bow Damage Breakdown: STR MOD(+22), Touch of Rage(+11), Deadly Aim(+12), Weapon Specialization(+2), Greater Weapon Specialization(+2), Weapon Training(+4), Gloves of Dueling(+2), Enhancement Bonus(+5), Arcane Strike(+5), Mythic Weapon Specialization(+5), Mythic Deadly Aim(+6)= +76.
Looks like I was off by 1, or I lost a modifier somewhere on my spreadsheet. Keeping track of where everything comes from on a build of this level is easily the hardest part.
That reminds me that I said I would try this with my wizard build..I guess I will try to find it tonight..
I would love to see it.
you wind up relying too heavily on touch of rage, and its a standard action. You get it for what a max of 5 rounds with opportunistic gambler?
I was going to say what monsters have the highest AC in order to auto succeed everything but a 1. Just because my archer would probably pump more into dex overall.
He should reasonably be able to expect touch of rage 18-20 rounds a day. When you are dropping down 1100+ damage a round that's plenty.
The standard action was accounted for with Amazing Initiative at the cost of a mythic point (which Johnny has 23 of)
Very few monsters or NPC's have AC in excess of 50. With the surge ability it really is more about maximizing the number of crits you make versus the number of misses.
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without mythic but with gestalt I could do this with one of 3 builds in order of effectiveness at the task, a very multi classed archer(magus (myrmadich), zen archer, grenader alchemist, arcane archer, evoker wizard
a swordsman: magus (kensi, blade bound)/paladin with an uber defence sub build (take a monk dip for champion of iori, take the crane style feats possibly take the war warder magus archetype),
and the hulk: alchemist (rage chemist and vivisectionist)/barbarian(drunken brute), dip in oracle, take the master chemist and rage prophet prestige classes
if anyone wants further details I'd be happy to share,
Just because my archer would probably pump more into dex overall.
That's cool, it is what this thread is about. I would love to see your archer build.
Sooo... what's your Will save without the cheesy/illegal ring? - +8 right?... good luck with that.
Sooo... what's your Will save without the cheesy/illegal ring? - +8 right?... good luck with that.
I don't think it is any cheesier than 20th level 10 mythic tier internet challenge to take on Cthulhu single handed. YMMV.
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No ring = +8 Will save = you have a 95% chance of failing against any Will save forced upon you.
All Cthulhu needs to do is demand (DC 30) that you approach without shooting him and you'll instagib from his Unspeakable Presence.
There are other magic items out there that help against that - re-jig and try again.
Also, needs more Perception if your strategy is trying to get the drop on him - as Cthulhu has +52 vs your max of +20?
I think you can likely do it... but let's do it honest eh?
I think the stats for Cthulhu really need to be available before we can define the parameters of this challenge. I had the opportunity to look at a friend's copy of MM4 and one noteworthy ability Cthulhu has is a 50% chance to avoid all attacks, besides his fear aura. Other powers as well obviously change how the fight will play out.
All that being said, I really love seeing crazy builds, especially the Mythic ones. Very fun reading over what you built BigDTBone, thanks!
Cthulhu's stats can be found here.
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upon looking at cthulhu's build, the hulk build has little to no chance, the swordsmen would have a tough time, and the archer would do quite well, but probably wouldn't be able to keep up the damage necessary to kill the guy, were it not for one thing
they aren't immune to poison
with my archer (or really any zen archer, or magus archer) you just need a quivver enchanted with abundant ammunition, take the drow poison arrows, now there is a 5% chance every time you hit him that you get 10 rounds of him unconscious incapable of doing much of anything to you,
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Void wizard 20, archmage 10; With Amazing initiative you can Void them for -10, Arcane Surge a Wish (surface of the sun)(MM Rod Persistent). SR is easy (mythic greater spell pen, Robe of Archmage, +2 from surge.
Cthulhu needs a 15+ to save, and has to roll twice. If he fails, the sun instantly kills him on both rounds.
int should be 48 (20 base,10 tome+levels, 6 headband, +12 from mythic tiers+path ability).
After looking at my character I would have to boost my effective caster level. If that did not work I would have to go mythic.
The basic idea was to gate in a couple CR 23 to 25 monsters, and let them do the work, or most of it. Buffing them during the time stop and debuffing him later was the plan.
I was a diviner wizard so I was going to go first.
As an aside:I think wish should be kept to what the book says it can do specifically without having to rely on "mother may I" from a GM. Otherwise any mythic 10 caster can just wish or miracle themselves to an auto-victory.
After looking at my character I would have to boost my effective caster level. If that did not work I would have to go mythic.
The basic idea was to gate in a couple CR 23 to 25 monsters, and let them do the work, or most of it. Buffing them during the time stop and debuffing him later was the plan.
I was a diviner wizard so I was going to go first.
As an aside:I think wish should be kept to what the book says it can do specifically without having to rely on "mother may I" from a GM. Otherwise any mythic 10 caster can just wish or miracle themselves to an auto-victory.
Agree
What is your Void Wizard's will save? - he still needs to be within 30ft of Cthulhu to use the Reveal Weakness ability, which opens him up to Unspeakable Presence.
How does the sun 'instantly kill him'? - RAW reference needed here.
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I know I designed a mythic gunslinger that did well over 2000 damage in a round to one-shot Lucifer in a previous thread (though this was back when weapon cords were allowed, I'll have to make him a tiefling or find some other dual-wield shenanigans) and lucifer had a 38 touch AC, higher than cthulu's. But gunslingers are super cheesy and we all know it. Over 2000 from 400ft away for the record, outside of cthulu's aura of win.
EDIT: Here is the thread I referenced. The gunslinger build was about halfway down. He loses +4 to attack and damage, but he still hits every shot for far more than lethal.
Wish can transport travelers its one of the described actions.
Imprisonment is the same outcome.
Getting past the sr without mythic is a challenge, but with mind blank and greater invis he can't touch you, so it doesn't matter.
That is there.I am surprised they did not see the possible uses of that one. Imprisonment is less brutal than being dropped on the sun for most creatures, but your wish idea is valid.
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The lovely Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Distant Worlds lays out the effects of being thrown into the Sun on page 5.
In the face of the star's nuclear fires, spells such as resist energy, protection from energy, and planetary adaptation are useless—only complete immunity to fire allows a creature to survive the immense heat. Any creatures or items not immune to fire are instantly and utterly consumed down to the molecular level—only spells such as wish or miracle can bring back such victims.
Limited wishes stack (the -7 saves part) as far as I can tell.
So with mind blank and greater invis, and greater heroism for the aura. With no mythic ranks we can get him the old fashioned way, stacking debuffs and shipping him home or to the sun
SR is a bit of a challenge, but +40 isn't too hard.
(20 CL +4 feats, +5 Dweomer's Essence, +5 sure casting, +5 Piercing Spell, +1 Orange Ioun Stone)
Alternatively - Elf and robes of the archmage means we don't need piercing spell for 100% pass.
3x Limited wishes, 1x persistent wish or imprisonment. 399/400 wins. Also it's repeatable. even without the Limited wishes stacking it's possible, though it would likely take a few more iterations :D
Have I succeeded in making a Cthulhu crisp to a satisfactory level yet?
Really though, mindblank is a problem. With the mythic craziness we can do it without mindblank, but if you max stealth and have invis+mind blank he can't find you. So sad. Poor Great old one.
Can you use surge to crit? I feel like its iffy by the critical hit wording.
To any interested, I'm going to wait untill these monsters get posted on the PFSRD, then I will post a more comprehensive version of the greater beastmass.
Dotting this for later. I think tonight I'll try to throw together a guy for this.
Since interplanetary teleport exists as its own 9th-level spell, I don't think wish should be able to duplicate its effect (not to mention being better at it).
Well, "defeat" is the modus operandi, which implies it must be banished.
No opinions on surging to crit?
Btw some of them are on srd. Pazuzu is anyway. The new version not that 3rd party stuff.
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I'm wondering how any of these builds kills Cthulhu, since RAW he can't be killed.
Immortality (Ex) If Cthulhu is killed, his body immediately fades away into a noxious cloud of otherworldly vapor that fills an area out to his reach. This cloud blocks vision as obscuring mist, but can’t be dispersed by any amount of wind. Any creature in this area must succeed at a DC 45 Fortitude save or be nauseated for as long as it remains in the cloud and for an additional 1d10 rounds after it leaves the area. Cthulhu returns to life after 2d6 rounds, manifesting from the cloud and restored to life via true resurrection, but is staggered for 2d6 rounds (nothing can remove this staggered effect). If slain again while he is staggered from this effect, Cthulhu reverts to vapor form again and his essence fades away after 2d6 rounds, returning to his tomb in R’lyeh until he is released again. The save DC is Constitution-based.
"If Cthulhu is killed". He can be killed. Even if you don't count the initial pre-vapor killing, his imprisonment in his tomb is the same thing as killing him, since death and sleep are the same thing lore-wise for Cthulhu.
If cthulhu can be defeated even withouth mythic ranks (and by a single character!), what could be a possible real challenge for a optimised party of level 20 with 10 mythic ranks? A god? We would need stats for those.
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Cthulhu is explicitly able to escape gravity wells, as he has Greater Starflight as an extraordinary ability, as well as resist fire 30 and fast healing 30. The sun is not likely to kill Cthulhu.
Let's pretend that the sun deals the same damage as immersion in lava- 20d6. On average, 70 a round, resist 30, heal 30. On average, Cthulhu takes 10 damage a round. He dies after taking 819 damage, 774+45. So call that 82 rounds, or 8 minutes and 12 seconds.
Can Cthulhu escape the sun before being slain? Any flight withing a solar system takes him, on average, 7 hours, or 12 hours at most. The solar system has a radius of 6 million kilometers, if you use the furthest points of Pluto's orbit as the border. Cthulhu can travel at 500,000 kilometers per hour at the very least, or 3,000,000 kilometers if he gets lucky on Greater Starflight and rolls 2 hours.
Let's assume he starts at the Sun's core and moves at half a million kilmeters per hour. 8.2 minutes is 13.7% of an hour, so he has enough time to move 68,333 kilometers at the very least. The radius of the sun is a shade below 700,000 kilometers. So if Cthulhu is moving at minimum speed, he's toast.
If he moves at his average speed of a little under a million per hour, then he can move 117,428 kilometers. He's still fried.
At his maximum speed of 3 million km/hour, he moves at thrice that speed, about 352,000 kilometers in the time allotted. So no matter what, he dies once. But he comes back to life after that-staggered and limited to one action per round, so let's halve his speed. At best, he will travel another 176,000 kilometers for a total of 528,000 kilometers traveled. He'd still be about 170,000 kilometers deep in the sun, so he dies again.
Or, as an alternative: He uses his at-will greater teleport spell-like ability or his 1/day wish spell-like ability to teleport out of the sun and lives.
The surface of the sun is about 5x hotter than lava. It should do 5x the damage. That would be 290hp a round after resistance and regen. It would kill him in about 18 seconds.
Cthulhu is explicitly able to escape gravity wells, as he has Greater Starflight as an extraordinary ability, as well as resist fire 30 and fast healing 30. The sun is not likely to kill Cthulhu.
"In the face of the star's nuclear fires, spells such as resist energy, protection from energy, and planetary adaptation are useless—only complete immunity to fire allows a creature to survive the immense heat. Any creatures or items not immune to fire are instantly and utterly consumed down to the molecular level—only spells such as wish or miracle can bring back such victims."
That's what the sun does according to Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Distant Worlds, as someone else said on this page. The "instantly and utterly consumed" part along with "only complete immunity to fire allows a creature to survive the immense heat" would seem to contradict your stance.
I see nobody commented on the fact that interplanetary teleport exists as a 9th-level spell, and even limits the ability to teleport to the sun (appropriate protection must be in place, otherwise the spell fails). Since this spell exists, I don't think wish should be able to do the same thing (except better), since it can normally only duplicate spell effects of 8th level and lower.
How have I never heard of these challenges!?
I'm surprised of you ravingdork. Well, when all the monsters from beastiary 4 are up, il present a more formal challenge. This thread is giving good feedback on what limits should be put.
Forcing an interplanetary teleport upon an enemy is actually more powerful then a 9th level spell. Such a thing would require adjudication, and as the DM I'd probably not allow it. You could dump him into a volcano somewhere, but we all know that's not going to work.
Also, how is everyone getting around his 50% miss chance? True Seeing has limited range, and if you use it, DC 40 Will save or go insane.
Nice to see a SIMPLR toy in play! :)
==Aelryinth
Nice to see a SIMPLR toy in play! :)
I had never thought of the idea before seeing your post in the level 50 character thread. Apparently it's not popular around here. :-/
On the 50% miss chance topic, bow has a seeking enchant.
The part where it teleports you is separate from duplicating spellsI see nobody commented on the fact that interplanetary teleport exists as a 9th-level spell, and even limits the ability to teleport to the sun (appropriate protection must be in place, otherwise the spell fails). Since this spell exists, I don't think wish should be able to do the same thing (except better), since it can normally only duplicate spell effects of 8th level and lower.
I know it's separate. What I'm saying is that the teleportation-part shouldn't be able to do more than a pure 9th-level spell designed only to teleport is able to do.
SIMPLR item gives Sacred Insight Morale Profane Luck Resistance bonuses to saves. Similarly, a DISMaL item gives Deflection Insight Sacred Morale and Luck bonuses to AC.
They are extremely expensive. The two rings on Johnny Bowman account for more than half of his gear value.
A random thought: Paladin Juju Zombie. Charisma for Saves and HP, Undead immunities, Smite Good for the damage output, and a few miscellaneous nice things from the the Juju template itself. Seems pretty cost effective too:
One casting of Create Undead = 660 + 50 gold times the level you turned undead.
Two castings of Atonement (one to remove magically induced alignment change and one to restore Paladin class features) = 6,000 gold.
SIMPLaR and DISMaL were originally designed for Epic Level play. There's a huge wealth boost going from level 20 to level 21. You can easily AFFORD to make things with the bonuses...the problems is that there is no way you have enough slots to put individual items in.
Thus, you stack them.
IN reality, you'd like have SIMPLaR and DISMaL +3 items, instead of +5. Still, that's +15 to saves and +12 to your AC, and freedom from needing some spellcaster to toss those buffs on you (which often is the only way you'd get them all).
There are a LOT more bonuses in 3.5 you could use (and which Artificers could abuse...), but those above are the main ones to play with.
==Aelryinth