i've seen (and participated in) a number of discussions on the boards about the best combination of different classes for a 5 person party... it got me wondering- what would be the best class for a 5 person party where everyone had to play the same class? and what builds would you use for the 5?
i personally think that summoners are broken (a 5 person party would really be 10 characters, plus any improved familiars anyone wants to pick up)- so i'd prefer to avoid them, but i'd be interested in seeing an unusual party even of them.
it seems like utility classes (ones with a variety of abilities) like bard or inquisitor would be obvious thoughts... what do you think?
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Druids
Summoners. Don't even need eidolons. Those things are just scouts for the impending wave of heavily buffed summoned monsters.
But beyond that? Clerics.
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I would tend to agree on those who said divine level 9 casters. There are enough cleric/oracle builds/archetypes that they can occupy ANY place in a part. With the right domain/mystery, you can also do anything needed that a wizard could do.
Other parties of 6-level casters (IE inquisitor, bard, magus) could be similarly effective, but much less so than a party of clerics/oracles.
As an example:
All-cleric:
1) Crusader (replaces fighter)
2) Cloistered cleric (knowledge/crafting)
3) Divine strategist (bard replacement)
4) Theologian (caster)
5) Vanilla cleric
There are a lot of classes with healing abilities: Oracles, Paladins, Bards, Alchemists, Inquisitors, Witches, Rangers, Druids, Clerics, Wizards, Sorcerers, Summoners.
Oracles would be the best if you want variety - as there are 20 something specialties before getting to archetypes.
I would find rangers to be the most fun.
Rangers would be interesting: you could have healing, trapfinding, buffing, and skill-monkeying. Wouldnt have much in the way of casty power though.
Having fun is the most important part of the game. Having fun easily outweighs any specific mechanics in the game. What class would you have the most fun playing?
Honestly, the magus. I love the mix of casty & martial (I feel like gandalf). Plus I love that you can be heavily armored or not depending on your build.
There was a bard PrC in 3.5 that allowed you to go up to level 9 spells (for less bab & such). I wish such an option existed for the magus, because I'm not fond of the eldritch knight, despite the fact it could work. I love spellstrike & spell combat.
But I guess I was aiming for the OPs question of "what 5 person party of the same class would work best on average". A good GM can adapt for any party, but I was aiming for some arbitrary approximation of the average "fighter/rogue/cleric/wizard" expectation.
I'll admit I'm trying to break that expectation myself. I'm trying to get a game started that is all prepared arcane casters. Start out the chracters as kids in a magical school (harry potter style), leave them with only cantrips for a bit, try to get the creative juices flowing. It's a hard sell, but I think it could be very rewarding for both players & gm.
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I'm finding it hard to think of ANY class that couldn't work :-) You'd need to spam UMD a bit and some classes (e.g all cavalier) would obviously only really work well in some campaigns but in the right campaign just about any class could make a great group.
Some such groups would have a very different approach to problems, mind. And would fail dramatically if the GM hosed that. Eg an all rogue group relies on the GM allowing them to achieve surprise a lot.
it's interesting how many favor full divine casters... i'm not entirely surprised- they are good, and flexible. anyone (besides williamoak) care to post what archetypes/domains/etc they would use? i have a few ideas for an all cleric or all oracle party, but i hadn't really thought about an all druid party... it seems like that could be pretty devastating, but how would you build them? one of the interesting things about an all oracle party is that it potentially completely negates a curse- if everyone takes tongues with the same language then there is functionally no downside to it (except that you can't overhear your opponents, i guess).
@williamoak- its interesting that you mentioned HP for that idea because I think witches would probably be the best class for that. they have better resource management thanks to hexes they can use repeatedly; they have access to some healing and status removal; and, though it doesn't necessarily fit really well with a school, you can through in a scarred witch doctor or two for some toughness. actually, if you wanted to put together an all arcane party for my original question, maybe that's what i'm really answering:
- scarred witch doctor|strength: longspear/reach build; self buffing+hexes+AoOs; later, pick up PA+arcane strike so can attack after couple of buffs are up
- scarred witch doctor|transformation: long duration self buffs/beastshape, hexes and melee
- hedge witch|healing: primary healer/status remover, debuff hexes
- winter witch|winter: blaster, some battlefield control (spells like icestorm that inhibit vision and/or cause difficult terrain; rime spell; Ice Tomb hex at 10th)
- (vanilla) witch|trickery: good Cha, face skills/UMD monkey; secondary healer, secondary blaster, utility spells; debuff hexes.
no other input?
Any class that can handle the (almost) necessary roles of divine/arcane/physical combat.
Alchemist, Summoner, Witch, Cleric, Oracle, Druid. All very doable.
Wizard, Sorceror, Magus, Inquisitor, Paladin, Bard possible.
Ranger big MAYBE.
Everything else sketchy.
Round out the party with Metal and Battle.
Hey! That name of first band I in. Jinx!
Most mechanically effective single class party? Probably oracles or clerics.
Most fun single class party? I would go with rogues.
Most fun single class party? I would go with rogues.
really?!? wow, i think you're definitely in the minority on these forums... how would you build/play them to cover everything a party needs?
and, what (in your opinion) would make that more fun than another skills based class like ranger or inquisitor, or alchemist?
Most fun single class party? I would go with rogues.really?!? wow, i think you're definitely in the minority on these forums... how would you build/play them to cover everything a party needs?
and, what (in your opinion) would make that more fun than another skills based class like ranger or inquisitor, or alchemist?
I say that it would be a great campaign not just because of what rogues are but also because of what they're not. In my experience a lot of mid to higher level Pathfinder games becomes a superhero story. PCs have awesome powers in their hands and the sessions can tend towards a 15 minute adventuring day - stomp through a dungeon and teleport away to rest.
On the other hand, rogues stay humble. This allows you to tell an entirely different story. Encounters that a balanced party (to say nothing of an optimized one) would laugh can be absolutely terrifying to a party of rogues. If you have a good group then these PCs will be thinking outside the box and coming up with inventive solutions all the time.
I am running Way of the Wicked atm, and about 10th an all wizard group is a tough nut to hurt. It does have one special rule, must have more wizard levels then any other class, PRC's don't count, so some flexability has been done.
Party is 2 straight Wiz, Wiz/Fighter/EK/AA sniper, Wiz/Clr MT, and a Wiz/Rog/AT. Only time I can really put a true challenge is if they get ambushed, they see it coming and it is toast.
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How about all ninjas? Any foe who can't see invisibility is out of luck. Everyone delays so they all move together, go invisible, surround an enemy, and everyone attack at once. Then go invisible again, rinse, and repeat. :P
Most fun: a team of Synthesist Summoners known as the Power Rangers.
(seriously though, gotta have Dispel Magic on the spell list for this to work; otherwise gg.)