| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
For Background: I am playing as a Druid who has, through the course of our campaign, become a very powerful noble in his nation, along with his fellow party members. As such, he see no problem with having as many kids as he wants and keeping them all in his house, bastards and all (At last count, he had 4 with his wife, 4 with others, and is raising 2 that his wife had with someone else).
Now that this meaningless piece of background is out of the way, I have this to ask:
He's high enough level now that he can use A Thousand Faces and I was curious if he could use it for Gender Bending? I see no reason for it to work from day to day, if so, but could he also use it to become a woman long enough to give birth to a kid?
I ask because we're undergoing the Starstone Test for our Mythic campaign and there's a big chance that, so long as we beat Cthulhu, we might succeed and I was hoping to become a god of balance. Since that includes men and women and he'd want to know what both sides are like, he'd be having a kid him(/her?)self to be sure he gets it.
I can see Thousand Faces being useable in such a way. Not really something I'd expect to see at most tables, but I think it's possible.
Yeah, while looking over the ability, that seems fully plausible and it's pretty cool character flair.
The only part that worries me is the one about beating Cthulhu.
Why? Because I don't know if defeat means death in this situation.
If I were the DM, that would certainly be the case, but I'm not the DM.
It would allow him to play the part but likely not experience the wonders of childbearing. Alter self is a lvl 2 spell given your actual race or sex does not change.
Alter Self only allows the form, so you would look like a woman, but you wouldn't be one.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Alter Self gives you access to some abilities of your new form, so it makes sense to me that you'd have fully functional reproductive organs as well.
What I was trying to get at is the form is only skin deep. If you were trying to bypass a magic sensor that protected a female only cult from inyruders and used alter self as your sole method to fool the sensor it will detect you as male.
... and there's a big chance that, so long as we beat Cthulhu, we might succeed and I was hoping ...
HA! I don't like your odds, sir (or ma'am, as the case may be)!
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
What I was trying to get at is the form is only skin deep. If you were trying to bypass a magic sensor that protected a female only cult from inyruders and used alter self as your sole method to fool the sensor it will detect you as male.
I disagree, it can change how your eyes work, make your muscles more developed, change your entire size and thus every organ in your body... given all those physical effects which are huge changes to the entire body, if it was kept up 100% of the time I see no reason at all it wouldn't allow a fully functioning reproductive system and carrying to term a child as a female of whatever race.
Sigh let me try this again. If I have a human bane sword and I stab a human under the effects of alyer self to look like an elf my bane weapon still works because he is still human. If a man aly
Ter selfed to look like a woman wore a girdle of masculinity femininity. He would turn into a woman regardless of alter self.
Its a level 2 spell the chanve the op wants is just out of the s ope of this.
The belt is far more powerful then the spell. The spell is always a temporary effect. If Thousand Faces mimics the spell, it's considered always temporary, and you don't gain the permanent and long term applications of the shift, be it by resembling race or gender.
Honestly, 'bearing children' isn't really on the list of abilities you can gain with polymorph magic, is it?
==Aelryinth
In my current campaign, our summoner got hit by a gender switching curse and has been cruising along like that since. People are still looking at him/her funny.
In my kingmaker game our druid (male, player and character) currently uses wild shape to change into a female goat to nurse a baby satyr we adopted.
That's just how we roll.
|
|
As a DM, I'd certainly allow it, since it has some great potential for character growth.
Speaking solely from a rules perspective, polymorph effects in PF have a specific list of what they grant, and functional reproductive organs aren't on that list.
Though given the number of half-dragons running around, I am inclined to assume that it works, from the perspective of the alternative being far more frightening.
But I think the final call comes down to the lne: "While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed."
As a sidenote, you wouldn't want to activate wildshape after a while in female form, since activating a new polymorph effect cancels the old one, which I'd guess would cause some complications when bearing a child.
A Thousand Faces (Su): At 13th level, a druid gains the ability to change her appearance at will, as if using the alter self spell, but only while in her normal form.
Alter Self
When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the humanoid type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, and swim 30 feet.
Small creature: If the form you take is that of a Small humanoid, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity.
Medium creature: If the form you take is that of a Medium humanoid, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength.
Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type. Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.
Creatures of another gender are still typical examples of their kind (baring a species that doesn't have another gender ala old school minotaurs)
re the goat, now thats taking one for the team...
Though given the number of half-dragons running around, I am inclined to assume that it works, from the perspective of the alternative being far more frightening.
Bartleby! Sing. The. Song! (not safe for work)
The dragonborn are noble folk of whom brave tales are often spoke...| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And that's how Gozreh was made.
|
|
Sigh let me try this again. If I have a human bane sword and I stab a human under the effects of alyer self to look like an elf my bane weapon still works because he is still human. If a man aly
Ter selfed to look like a woman wore a girdle of masculinity femininity. He would turn into a woman regardless of alter self.Its a level 2 spell the chanve the op wants is just out of the s ope of this.
There's no need to be flippant, if you want to decide that sort of roleplay and character development isn't what you want in your game for whatever reason then that's fine.
However if others would like that then it's equally fine for them to include it, the spell doesn't indicate 'working reproductive organs', it also doesn't state 'working lungs' or 'working urinary tract' but you still get them. It physically changes your body to the chosen form to the point of granting special effects and changing stats, that's certainly good enough ground to stand on saying it allows pregnancy and childbirth should a GM wish to allow it and still go with what the spell describes.
Thanks for all your advice! My one thought was that it would work because while Alter Self only had a set time frame, so any female effects on the body would fade before the change, A Thousand Faces can last for as long as the Druid wants so if the Druid stayed in female form long enough there's no reason that he shouldn't start getting female 'problems.'
I know that he doesn't become something other than human, but he doesn't shift beyond human. He just becomes a human woman. So my thought was that, given enough time, there's no reason that the new being (fertilized and 'implanted' egg) would be destroyed once the Druid shifted back.
I had an idea a little after I posted: A "wish" spell (if you can afford it) should allow you to switch genders in a more permanent fashion, or even become a hermaphrodite. It would cost 25000 gp though.
Alter Self is a polymorph spell, so it actually does change you into a woman. Further detail into the consequences of feminine biology is deliberately left up to the GM -- this isn't FATAL after all.
I'd personally allow for whatever since the druid is basically a master of nature now. Heck, I personally ruled that a spell like Bestow Curse could do minor polymorph effects that befit the mechanics of the curse. For example, someone could use Bestow Curse to turn an obnoxious guy into an attractive woman with uncomfortably large endowments that bestow a -6 DEX penalty.
There's no need to be flippant, if you want to decide that sort of roleplay and character development isn't what you want in your game for whatever reason then that's fine.However if others would like that then it's equally fine for them to include it, the spell doesn't indicate 'working reproductive organs', it also doesn't state 'working lungs' or 'working urinary tract' but you still get them. It physically changes your body to the chosen form to the point of granting special effects and changing stats, that's certainly good enough ground to stand on saying it allows pregnancy and childbirth should a GM wish to allow it and still go with what the spell describes.
To be clear, I have no issue with the ops goal to use loki as his rolemodel :p I was simply trying to use game mechanics to show that the alterself spell never ever changes who you are.
As another poster suggested there are ways to do it they just take more investment.
I am really curious, almost exactly one year later, how this ended up...
Sigh let me try this again. If I have a human bane sword and I stab a human under the effects of alyer self to look like an elf my bane weapon still works because he is still human. If a man aly
Ter selfed to look like a woman wore a girdle of masculinity femininity. He would turn into a woman regardless of alter self.Its a level 2 spell the chanve the op wants is just out of the s ope of this.
That just proves that you are magically still your original self. You are physically the transformed self. Unless child bearing in your world is magical, then alter self should be good enough.
|
The people at Paizo have gone on record as saying this works fine for just about all uses. So...I'm pretty sure it does.
I'm not sure functional reproductive systems were ever mentioned, but sexual uses certainly were (there's at least one post mentioning Sorshen, the Runelord of Lust, using Alter Self or similar magic for that).