I'm running Carrion Crown (Haunting of Harrowstone, at the moment) and doing my best to inject a sense of dread into my players. The pally might be immune to Fear, but I'm doing my best to make him and every other player feel it.
So, I've joined the long line of GM's trying to keep the pinging pally player from using Detect Evil to nullify any potential for being caught by evil unawares(i.e. taking away half my fun).
Which brings up a couple of questions on game mechanics. Since
A) The duration of Detect Evil is Concentration, and
B) The Area is a 30' Cone originating from the Paladin and pointing in the direction the Paladin is facing,and
C) This is an SLA which therefore requires a Standard Action
...is there anything keeping the Paladin from activating DE, then taking a move action while concentrating on DE, and turning his head all over the place to effectively bathe with Detect Evil the entire area within 30' of him throughout his move action?
I see nothing in the rules to prevent this. The only cost I can see for doing this (other than the pally having to give up a full move)would be to impose severe penalties on his Perception rolls due to his concentration on the DE.
What is it you're trying to do specifically here? Detect evil shouldn't stop you from using jump scares or anything. I mean, Paladin's are immune to fear and all, but they can still be surprised as much as the next person.
You're forgetting there is no facing in Pathfinder. So yes, your Paladin friend can do that.
A) Concentration as far as I'm aware takes up a move actionstandard action.
B) The area of the spell is a 60 ft cone( no facing in Pathfinder )
C) Yes, it's a standard action to activate
Hope this helps you, SwiftyKun is right, just because you don't have to roll against fear effects doesn't mean you can't start doubting yourself or feel surprise.
Edit : False information, thank CWheezy for the correct answer.
A) Yes. But make sure you check what this means. While concentrating, they are limited to a single move action each round. If they attack, cast something, want another move action, or get interrupted, it goes away and they have to recast it.
B) careful... there are two version of Detect Evil... the regular spell which is a 60 foot cone (not 30')... and doesn't tell them much without multiple rounds of concentrating.
But most paladins are using their special 'paladin-only' spell-like version ... which is limited to a single target within 60' and line of sight (not a cone). It gives them info much quicker (they get in a single move action what the regular spell takes 3 rounds to do). So a paladin using this version, in a single full round, can: standard action detect evil, move action get results.
Alot of folks tend to grab the best parts of both versions and mix them together when doing the paladin thing... don't let them do this. Whether paladins can choose which version to use has been debated (I tend to say yes), but they still have to choose which version they are doing before they start.
Detect Evil (Sp): At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell. A paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it is evil, learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds. While focusing on one individual or object, the paladin does not detect evil in any other object or individual within range.
Detect evil via the paladin ability is a 60 foot cone in the direction the paladin is facing when used. First round simply tells you if there is something with an evil aura within the cone. Second round tells you how many evil things are in the cone, and which one of the evil things is the most powerful. Third round pinpoints the power and location of each aura. Additional effects may apply depending on the HD of the aura and the Paladin's own HD.
The reason I ask what you're trying to accomplish here, is because unless the paladin takes a turn and a half to make 3 move actions to pinpoint the object with an evil aura, he won't be able to notice anything lurking in the shadows. He'll only be able to tell "Yeah, something's definitely within this 60 foot cone..."
Make sure to look at the table to see if the paladin can actually detect the evil presence in the first place. Anything which has an HD of 4 or less and doesn't apply to any other part of the aura table will not be detected by the paladin's detect evil ability.
Also, as a player who loves playing Paladins I can sort of understand your pain. I don't blame the players for the way they play paladins, but there are many people more often than not world wide that play the "lawful stupid" paladin. The kind that spams detect evil and pursues the nearest villager with murderous bloodlust. Not saying your player does this, but you can hopefully understand the type of game play I'm trying to convey here.
As a good rule of thumb when I play a paladin..If there's no good in character reason why I should or would use the ability, then I don't.
What is it you're trying to do specifically here? Detect evil shouldn't stop you from using jump scares or anything. I mean, Paladin's are immune to fear and all, but they can still be surprised as much as the next person.
I want to avoid the Pally becoming conditioned to use DE as a crutch for determining when there is real danger and when it's just his imagination getting the best of him. One of the tools in the GM's (or writer's, movie director's, etc) arsenal for creating fear is creating uncertainty...alternating evil with red herrings to keep players off balance:
For example, here is how a couple of the Haunting of Harrowstone (HoH) events could play out:
HoH spoiler alert:
WITHOUT DE PINGING. As characters relax in Kendra's parlor, recuperating from a long day of building their Trust score with the citizens of Ravengro, there comes a knock at the door.
"Ah, that must be Pevrin, delivering the supper I ordered from the Laughing Demon. I'll get it." says the Sorc.
She opens the door and is greeted by Professor Lorimor, maggots crawling from his ears and eyeballs, reaching out to throttle her with his leathery gray hands.
WITH DE PINGING: Replace the last paragraph with:"Wait, let me check something first," says the pally. He focuses on the front door for a few seconds. "Don't open it--moderately strong evil on the other side."
"I'll go out the back door, circle around to the front, and kill whatever foul creature it is that darkens our door!" Says the ranger.
Or
DM: As you get closer, you are able to make out the words of the song that the children sing as they jump rope. Several twisted tails of grisly murder...
"What foul evil has possessed these 'children'?", cries the pally. Tis not natural, even among the dour residents of this accursed town!"
The pally draws his sword and approaches the closest girl. "What manner of spell is this you sing, you heinous beast of the depths? I shall gut you where you stand!"
The ranger leaps to intervene, grabbing the pally's sword pommel, "Stay your hand, friend Pally! It's a grisly tune, to be true, but perhaps these are but simple children who are merely victims of the dire spirits that hangs over this unfortunate town!"
WITH DE PINGING: Replace the last two paragraphs with: The pally stares strangely at the girls for a few seconds. "Ah, I see. Go about your game, young ones. And remember to floss!"
Ok, these are admittedly a bit extreme, but you get the idea. Having the Pally pinging all over the place is like the the horror movie character that somehow gets the lights to stay on while the killer is loose in the neighborhood. More information = less suspense = less fear = less fun.
I see what you're saying. Hmmm, well, unfortunatly, I can't think of any good solutions off the top of my head right at this moment. However in situations like this it's best to lure him into a false sense of security. There should be absolutely no reason for the paladin to use his detect evil ability unless he knows there's a murderer on the loose. "I'm paranoid" is a weak excuse, and not one I would let fly if the Paladin told that to me.
In any case, I would set up this dark atmosphere, but set up several fake scenarios before the real evil thing appeared. That way if the paladin DID spam detect evil at everything, it would become clear that everyone and everything is just "Playing around and acting like evil monsters on Halloween", at least, until that one person acting like a zombie really IS a zombie trying to eat his brains. I'm not sure if this particular quest gives you the option to build a false sense of security though.
Paladin detect evil is a) not a cone and b) does not take 3 rounds.
The paladin has to concentrate on a single item or creature. So basically paladins have to see the target.
The Paladin's Detect evil and The Detect evil spell I quoted are both word for word from the Paizo website.
You may be thinking of smite, possibly, which does require line of sight. Fun little side note, because detect evil doesn't need line of sight, you can use it to pinpoint an invisible evil creatures exact location. This is of course assuming the correct conditions are met and that the creature in question has no way of hiding their aura from you. Do note however that if the target is in fact outside of your line of sight at the moment you are detecting on your third turn, then you cannot discern it's exact location, but you can still sense it's direction from you.
paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it is evi...
This tells us its a move action and you have to concentrate on a sinNgle item or person. It also implies you have to see them. Bascally staring at a door will not tell the paladin if evil is on the otjerside as you canot concentrate on a single item or individual you cannot see.
...learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds.
This trlls us he instantly knows. There is no waiting. Is that guy I can see within 60 ft evil yes no.
And finally
While focusing on one individual or object, the paladin does not detect evil in any other object or individual within range.
This further supporys that it is nit a cone and you have to focus on someone you can see.
Hmmm. Yes, I see now. The more I re-read it, the more of what CWheezy says is true. When a paladin uses detect evil at will, he can use two different versions of it. One way as the spell says, and his own special paladin way which is quicker, but single target and must have a line of sight. It looks like we're both correct Mojorat.
paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it is evi...
This tells us its a move action and you have to concentrate on a sinNgle item or person. It also implies you have to see them. Bascally staring at a door will not tell the paladin if evil is on the otjerside as you canot concentrate on a single item or individual you cannot see.
...learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds.
This trlls us he instantly knows. There is no waiting. Is that guy I can see within 60 ft evil yes no.
And finally
While focusing on one individual or object, the paladin does not detect evil in any other object or individual within range.
This further supporys that it is nit a cone and you have to focus on someone you can see.
The paladin has two version. Single target instant knowledge for one move action. Or, he can use it as the spell Detect Evil. The spell version is a 60ft cone.
Quote:
Detect Evil (Sp): At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell. A paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it is evil, learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds. While focusing on one individual or object, the paladin does not detect evil in any other object or individual within range.
The important thing to remember is that the targeted paladin only version requires being able to already see the target. The spell Detect Evil version is a emanation, which means anyone with total cover relative to the paladin is not detected by the paladin, but those without total cover are detected even if not able to be seen. Of course, to identify more than the presence of evil (like number of auras) requires more time.
Thread res on this, but in case people are researching answers for this (as I was today), I thought it best to add what I've found from other threads and reading.
In the GMG, it spells out the impact of the Detect Alignment spell on haunts:
Game Master's Guide wrote:
Detect undead or detect alignment spells of the appropriate type allow an observer a chance to notice a haunt even before it manifests (allowing that character the appropriate check to notice the haunt, but at a –4 penalty).
So I'm reading that to mean if they used detect evil as the spell and create the 3 round cone (and they can see the area where the haunt would manifest), the GM should do a blind Perc check against the Haunt's DC to notice it. If the check fails, you tell them the PC does not detect the presence of evil. If passes, then give then the event listed in the notice section of the haunt. But it is not automatic. If they use the SLA version (move action, one item), I'd give them the check if the item they are focusing on is in the area that the haunt manifests.
To the OP question about moving and turning their head, I would not allow that. If they are using the cone version, then the Standard action lets them detect evil in that 60' cone, and it takes three rounds to get all the info. If they turned their head, then that would require a new standard action to concentrate on the new area, and this would re-set the clock on the round counter. This is also how I play the effect of detect magic and invisibility.
And finally, if the haunt is still behind a closed door, then that would break line of effect for the spell or SLA usage. If they peeked out a side window, then I'd give them the check.
