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The pre-gen for Level 1 Amiri shows her wielding a bastard sword with two hands for 2d8+4 damage. I know that Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword allows you to wield the sword one-handed for 1d10 damage and that if you do not have this feat, you need to wield it two-handed to get 1d10 damage. Where in the rules does it state that Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword allows a bastard sword to do 2d8 damage when wielded two-handed?
Her sword is too big for her. She uses a "Large" bastard sword, meaning it's perfectly sized for an ogre and it's so big that it does more than the normal bastard sword damage. Because the sword is so big, it does extra damage but she is -2 to hit with it - that's why she's listed as only +3 to hit, even with BAB 1 and an 18 Strength (+4 bonus): 1 + 4 - 2 = 3.
It is a Large Bastard Sword. 1d10 becomes 2d8 when increased in size.
Bastard Sword without the EWP feat is 2handed.
Bastard Sword with the EWP feat is 1handed
Large Bastard Sword without the EWP feat is too big for medium to use.
Large Bastard Sword with the EWP feat is 2handed.
Thus, Amiri is using a Large Bastard Sword, suffers a -2attack penalty for using an inappropriately sized weapon (or should be), and does 2d8 base damage.
- Gauss
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Where in the rules does it state that Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword allows a bastard sword to do 2d8 damage when wielded two-handed?
In the 1st and 2nd Edition Players handbook.
Thank you, I'll be here all week. Remember tip your waitresses.
Wasn't that 2d4, Grognard?
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Wasn't that 2d4, Grognard?
That was the damage versus Small or Medium creatures, same as the Broadsword DM_Blake, bless your soul. But 2d8 versus Large creatures.
Be careful with my lawn as you get off it.
:)
She does, and it does actually. He may be looking at a 3.5 version with 16 Str. Or just typo'd the + amount... Actually.. hah...
The latest version considers this a FAQ I guess :)
Large Bastard Sword: The sword Amiri carries is difficult for her to wield because it was created to be swung by a giant. She takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls with the sword (this is already calculated into her attack bonus). Though a bastard sword can normally be wielded in one hand, Amiri must use two hands because the sword is sized for a Large creature. The sword deals 2d8 points of damage because of its Large size, and because the 1st edition player's handbook says so.
Because the authors want it to.
I'm with Malachi on this one; the 2D8 damage isn't the issue at all. Size correlations between 1D10 to 2D8 is spelled out in the Core under Weapons sized for Large and Tiny/Small Creatures table.
It's the +4 damage that makes no sense.
When wielding a weapon in two hands, the Strength modifiers are 1.5x their normal value. With an 18 Strength, 4 x 1.5 = 6.
Is it me or are we purposely avoiding the real issue here; the +4 damage, not the 2D8?
No, it's correct.
She is wielding it as a one-handed large-weapon in two hands. Because she's weilding it as a one-handed weapon, she doesn't get the 1.5, even though she's using two hands. It's because she can't wield it as a two-handed weapon when it's a large weapon.
Part of the fallout of the new FAQ on bastard swords and how they are one or two handed back and forth.
Are you sure?
BBT is right.
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According to the new FAQ, when used in two hands it counts as a two-handed weapon.
Two-handed weapons get 1.5 x Str bonus to damage.
Nothing in the description of the bastard sword, the old FAQ, the new FAQ, the section on inappropriately sized weapons or the combat rules suggest that using a 1H weapon in two hands OR using a 2H weapon in two hands alters the way the Str bonus to damage works: it's 1.5 x Str bonus.
I guess I should rephrase my question.
Are you sure that's not the intent, that because it's a large bastardsword, you can't get two-handed str bonus on it. Again, intended vs RAW.
BBT, that's the exact quote you used for the free actions, the bastard sword FAQ (1 and 2), and another one I forget.
I don't think the mantra thing is working.
At this point, I would not be surprised if there is an intent by the devs that if you are wielding a large BS/Katana/DWA and you are medium, you require the EWP feat to wield it in two hands, and you still treat it as a 1HW.
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At this point, I would not be surprised if there is an intent by the devs that if you are wielding a large BS/Katana/DWA and you are medium, you require the EWP feat to wield it in two hands, and you still treat it as a 1HW.
Well, that would be the exact opposite to the FAQ they just put out.
Which says that if you use it in two hands treat it as if it were a two-handed weapon.
You can still wield an One-handed weapon with two hands, and get x1.5 strength to damage.
That would only be true for the default: an appropriatley-sized character wielding an appropriately-sized weapon; aka its the generic rule.
This does not apply here, since the size cat of the weapon is different to the size cat of the wielder; aka specific rule.
Also it is not quantified like the penalty to attack, the RAW is put into this sentence:
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed.
Thus, while she uses both hands to wield it, she cannot put the extra momentum behind the swings with her oversized weapon, rather she needs the extra stability to attack with it at all.
Ruyan.
Ruyan, there's nothing in the text you quoted that implies you wouldn't get the x1.5 Strength to damage that you normally would.
Increasing from a one-handed weapon to two-handed still has you using it in two hands, and two-handed weapons still get x1.5 Strength to damage.
RuyanVe - By that logic, you wouldn't get 1.5xStr when using regular-sized Two-Handed weapons like a medium Great Sword because they require two hands to use, therefore disallowing you the extra "oomph."
Even so, this would still be the generic rule set you'd use, something that does not apply, since we're not looking at the default case all of the system is built around (medium sized PCs, moving in/on a 2D environment etc.).
Also, see the above what BBt quoted:
Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Melee Weapons: This designation is a measure of how much effort it takes to wield a weapon in combat. It indicates whether a melee weapon, when wielded by a character of the weapon's size category, is considered a light weapon, a one-handed weapon, or a two-handed weapon.
Here it is mentioned explicitly that the categories you use for defining the Str modifier to damage only apply if weapon and wielder are within the same size categorie.
Ruyan.
If it is a 1-handed weapon you use normal (1x) strength bonus.
If it is a 1-handed weapon in two hands you use the 1.5x strength bonus.
If it is a 2-handed weapon in two hands you use the 1.5x strength bonus.
It doesn't matter if the Bastard Sword is a 1-handed weapon or a 2-handed weapon, if you have 2 hands on it you get the 1.5x strength bonus.
Lets put this another way: A Large Longsword is a 2-handed weapon in the hands of a medium character. That character applies 1.5x strength bonus.
Damage rolls when using a melee weapon or a thrown weapon, including a sling. (Exceptions: Off-hand attacks receive only half the character’s Strength bonus, while two-handed attacks receive 1–1/2 times the Strength bonus. A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies to attacks made with a bow that is not a composite bow.)
Not 2-handed weapons, 2-handed attacks.
- Gauss
RuyanVe, yes, it defines the categories, and it also states a few pages later that the measure of how much effort it takes changes for inappropriately sized weapons. Ie. an exception to the rule you quoted.
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.
So, the Small creature does 1.5x damage using a Medium one-handed weapon in two hands because it counts as a two-handed weapon.
- Gauss
You know what, you're right...
Btw: Amiri as statted up in the NPC Codex where she consistently gets 1.5x Str to damage.
Ruyan.
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There is no hope for the human race.
As far as I'm aware, there is nothing in the inappropriate weapon size rules that prevent you from getting 1.5 STR. I'm inclined to believe its a typo. Though, becsuse JJacobs is in charge of the iconics, he might be able to shed some light on this.
Also, what resource is this found in? Are there other resources that have her stat block that we can compare to?
Guys - the "+4" was probably a typo. Or he was looking at a 3.5 stat block of Amiri (with Str 16).
As Kazaan said, Amiri is listed with +6 damage - all is well with the world.
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I'm not disagreeing with you.How does the change in size alter what I just said?
It matters not, if it is an One-handed, or a Two-handed weapon wielded in two hands.
Either way, you would receive x1.5 strength to damage.
Nothing, at all, changes this.
Nothing.
Some are, or were, for no reason I can fathom.
So, they disagreed with you as well, I suppose.